If you have ever looked at the size and the complexity of the Chinese market, you will know it's both massive, exciting and terrifying, all at the same time. Yet, the opportunity is enormous, especially for us Brits. It seems Brand Britain is a big deal for Chinese consumers. But, making it in China takes experience, money and contacts. That's where specialist agency Dawn Rider comes in. Set up by family team Sabrina and Terence, the duo uses their know-how and connections in China to help Western brands enter the market. They've been doing it for a couple of decades and know about how to succeed.

Listen and get up to speed on marketing in China, the massive opportunity of social e-commerce, and the experience of setting up a new agency on the other side of the planet.

Through the Line

Starting Agencies and Marketing in China with Sabrina Wan

Lead generation is one of those issues we like to talk about in agency land. We're on a constant cycle of business development because, frankly, it's how the agency world operates. Not only do we have to focus on keeping our clients happy, but for survival and ultimately growth, we also must bring new clients and projects on board all the time.

The problem is, many of us are bad at lead generation. Like the proverbial plumber whose toilet doesn't flush or cobbler with holes in her shoes, we fail to get a marketing process in place for consistently and predictably winning new business. That's where Christian Banach comes in with his PROPEL system; a way of building a reliable, trustworthy and predictable lead generation engine for agencies. One based on value add, being "professionally persistent", and starting with your prospects' problem in mind, not just pitching around a generic creds deck.

Listen in to find out more.

Agency Lead Gen with Christian Banach

Understanding agency finance may not be what gets you out of bed in the morning. I'd bet my kids' college fund that accounting is at the bottom of the list of what gets you excited about running your agency. But, frankly, it could hardly be more critical if you want to survive, thrive and eventually exit your agency.

The great news about accountancy is that there are loads of great and affordable software packages that can help you keep compliant. On top of that, there are people like Stacey Borrow from Profit By Design. Stacey is a management accountant, which means she helps you look forward with your numbers and use that knowledge to make informed decisions. Stacey joins me on the podcast to explore the five areas of finance that agency owners should focus on to save costs, make more money and free up time. 

I hope you enjoy the show.

Understanding Agency Finance with Stacey Borrow

Nobody goes into running agencies because they love financial management. Whatever flavour of agency you run, your first love is likely to be design or banding, and not bookkeeping, cash flow and balance sheets.

But, if you're going to be successful, you will need an intimate understanding of how to manage, understand, interpret, and make decisions based on your finances. That's where people like Rayhaan come in. They help agency entrepreneurs use their financial data to make critical decisions. You know, things like whether you can afford to hire new staff, how much to keep in reserve for the tax man, or even how to manage your affairs, so you pay less (the right amount) of tax.

Listen to the latest episode of Through the Line as Rayhaan explains his processes for sound financial management, planning for tax, valuing your business, getting ready for exit and a whole lot more. Finance may not always be the most exciting part of running an agency, but it's bloody important.

Rayhaan Moughal on Financial Management for Agencies

The pandemic has had a dramatic impact on how we build teams. In agency land, we are challenged with a workforce that no longer expects to be tied to an office eight hours a day, five days a week. That's quite a shift.

In this episode of Through the Line, I explore how to build remote teams with Kathryn Strachan from Copyhouse - an agency she has grown to 26 remote employees during the pandemic.

Building a Remote Agency with Kathryn Strachan

There isn’t much more important in agency life than the relationships you build with your clients.

And yet, building client relationships is something I have never received any formal training in. It’s just something you learn on the job.

What if I tell you there’s an equation for what forms great client relationships. Better still, what if I invited an agency pro and expert on client relationships to explain it? Look no further.

In the latest episode of Through the Line, Paul Phillips joins me to explore the ‘Trust Equation’, developed by David Maister in his famous text, The Trusted Advisor and what this means for improving agency and client relationships.

The Science of Client Relationships with Paul Phillips

What is agency culture? What does it mean to say there’s a great culture in a business? Is it a table tennis table and free beer on Fridays, a fancy coffee machine, or the fact your team can make toast at your expense 24/7? Maybe it’s flexible working or the open-door policy with the exec team.

Listen to this episode of Through the Line as Andy Bargery talks with Christine MacKay of animation studio, Salamandra. Christine explains some of the elements of culture at her agency business that have enabled it to grow to 16 people in three locations in the last 8 years.

Christine MacKay on Agency Culture

Very many agency owners have a view of growing their business to a point where they can sell or hand it over to a management team. But, often, agencies reach around 15-20 people and hit a glass ceiling. They struggle to get beyond this milestone.



In this conversation, Dan de la Cruz from Polymensa joins me to chat through the biggest changes agencies need to make to keep growing. Things like having a leadership team in place, a core of senior marketers to take the load of the founders, establishing a vision, and much more.



If you are interested in growing your agency from small to medium and beyond, Dan shares some great ideas and advice to help you along the way.

Going Large with Daniel de la Cruz

A common goal for many agency founders is to grow their business to a size big enough to sell. Very few understand what this takes, let alone realise that vision. It's a tricky path, fraught with pitfalls and many terminologies to bamboozle the unwary.

Fortunately, experts are on hand who know this space inside and out. People like Tom Lewis, who has spent a good chunk of his career buying agencies for holding companies and now for private equity. Thankfully Tom agreed to join me on the podcast to chat about his experiences and lay out some advice for agencies going on the journey to exit or even growing through acquisition. 

If you are interested in selling or buying, Tom's words of wisdom will be a great help.

Buying and Selling Agencies with Tom Lewis

Last summer, I met up with a talented and intelligent agency owner – let’s call her Susie. I have known and respected Susie for quite a few years, and she runs a mid-size agency in the B2B space. We were catching up on the state of her business, what was working, and what wasn’t; the usual stuff I love to talk about with agency owners. It turns out an area causing Susie some issues is imposter syndrome. That feeling of not being confident or the self-doubt that creeps in now and then. After a couple of years in lockdown, it turns out that getting out and about, networking, and meeting prospects was not that simple. Much less comfortable than it used to be.

Agency owners aren’t known for lacking in confidence. In fact, quite the opposite. To learn more about imposter syndrome and how to handle it, I invited Thor A Rain, founder of the Helpful Clinic, to come on the show and explore it in more detail. What could Susie do to overcome her challenges and get back out there, plying her trade? What could other agency or small business owners like Susie learn to help them overcome that nagging feeling of ‘am I good enough?’, ‘or should I be here?’.

Thor A Rain on Dealing with Imposter Syndrome

Great client service and successful agencies go hand in hand. In my opinion (and I'm a client service guy), you can't run a successful agency without knowing how to handle clients. It's that simple.

The problem is not every agency leader understands this and even fewer invest in training their account teams. So I invited Jenny Plant from Account Management Skills to join me and explore what it takes to be great at account management. Or, in a nutshell, how do you retain and grow client accounts?

Jenny explores how the role of account management has evolved over the last decade. We unpack the key ingredients of good client handling, how account management and project management are becoming separate roles, what it takes to build tight client relationships and what to look out for in the people you hire to fill this critical role in agency life.  

If you're looking for some insight into the world of first-class account management, then you're in the right place.

Great Client Service with Jenny Plant

In marketing, you have two big career choices: work for a brand or work at an agency. The two sides of the marketing coin work closely together as partners. Well, that's what you'd believe if you read almost any agency website. The truth is often rather different. Client-side and agency-side marketers look at the world through very different lenses, and it's useful for both to understand the others' perspectives.  

Welcome, Dan Ince. Dan was a big brand buy, including spells as a brand custodian at Heinz, Jordan's, Cadbury, Mr Kipling, Ambrosia...the list goes on. He's a smart guy. But a few years ago, Dan turned his back on corporate life and jumped over to the agency side via a few consultancy gigs, setting up his own shop, Brand Works Social. So I asked Dan to explore the differences between the two sides on the podcast. This show explores the topic of agency briefs, proposals and pitching, personal branding, and networking, amongst other topics.

Throughthe Line

Big Brand to Agency Life with Dan Ince

One of the primary tasks of a marketer is to understand people and to put them at the centre of your thinking. More often than not, that's your customers or prospective customers. What do they genuinely care about? What makes them choose Coca-cola over Pepsi cola, or why do they shop at Waitrose and not Tesco? The problem is only some marketers do this; instead, we often have a more inward-looking orientation. We put the brand at the centre of our universe when that's rarely the case with our customers. As Mark Ritson might say, people don't give a shit about our brands.

Human-centred marketing is different. It's our approach to understanding the human condition and connecting people to our brands through an iterative process of empathising, defining, ideating, prototyping and testing. At least, that's Richard Hewitt's approach, founded on anthropology and the research discipline of ethnography. In a world where marketers rely heavily on realms of data to make decisions, wouldn't it be nice actually to study human behaviour in person for a change?

Human-Centred Marketing with Richard Hewitt

Hiring agencies is a critical task in most marketing roles. In the modern world of marketing, there are so many expert disciplines that it's tough, if not impossible, to do everything in-house. That's where the agency world comes in. 

Need an expert to increase your web traffic? Think search marketing. Want someone to design an impactful brand campaign? Look for an ad agency. And so on and so on. But how do you find the right agency? What is the process for getting from a marketing challenge to an agency solution? That's where procurement maestro Tina Fegent comes in. Tina is a true expert in buying marketing agency services, with years of experience in client, agency and consultancy roles. What Tina doesn't know about procuring agency services simply isn't worth knowing. Good job she agreed to come on the podcast to share some of that expertise then isn't it? Enjoy the show.

Hiring Agencies with Tina Fegent

Running an agency can be a mixed bag of emotions. One minute you're full of elation at winning an award for a successful campaign. The next, you're dealing with a crisis of confidence or trying every trick in the book to win some new business.

But there is another way. It's called the self-running agency, and Rob Da Costa has calculated a formula that works for all types of agencies:  vision + marketing plan + systems and process + succession planning = happy agency owner.

Listen to the show to find out more.

Self Running Agencies with Rob Da Costa

How do you put a price on ideas or creativity?

It’s a perennial challenge faced by marketing, advertising and PR agency owners. You know you can make a massive difference to your client’s brand challenges, yet you’re often stuck simply selling time. But not any more. Not if you listen to Alastair Dryburgh, that is, anyway.

Alastair is an advocate of agencies charging based on the value they create rather than the time it takes to deliver it. If you're currently selling time for money, you will enjoy Alastair's thinking.

Value Based Pricing with Alastair Dryburgh

In the 20+ years I have worked in marketing, there's been one constant: change.

The marketing industry is pretty fast-paced, whichever discipline or side of the client-agency world you occupy. This is partly what makes it a great space to build a career. But it can also be a challenge. Not everyone is comfortable with change or able to manage it well. 

How, then, do you build a resilient marketing team? List to my conversation with Jo Twiselton of Twist Consultants as we explore everything from communication, leadership and the impact of the pandemic to emotional agility and whether or not office-based workers should go back to five days a week in the office.

Building Resilient Marketing Teams with Jo Twiselton

How important is your website? 

I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer is very. Since the advent of the internet, websites have moved on at quite a pace. Where once we had simple brochure sites, we now have complex sites with lots of content and many opportunities for a browser to convert into a sales funnel. It could be starting a trial for a SaaS product, donating money to a charity or buying a new watch on a DTC-branded e-com site. They generally all have one thing in common: conversion. 

Want to find out about some fresh ideas for optimising your website using neuroscience? Listen in to the show.

Neuroscientifically Optimising Websites

Every man and his dog has seen the potential of building a personal brand, from leading CEOs to start-up founders, copywriters and agency bosses. But, not everyone has got it mastered. Not yet, anyway.

Rajen Mistry from specialist consultancy Founder Story joins me on Through the Line to unearth what it takes to build a personal brand and why you should. Rajen shares generously, and there are lots of takeaways, tips and ideas about what to do and how to measure results.  

Enjoy the show.

Personal Branding Masterclass with Rajen Mistry

In this episode of Through the Line, I explore brand transformation with Dr Emmanual Probst, who has just published his book called Assemblage - the Art and Science of Brand Transformation. The book is a real treasure chest of ideas for brand managers looking to create better relationships with their customers. I recommend it to anyone looking for some fresh ideas and inspiration.

In this episode, we explore a range of branding topics, from purpose to the creator / re-mix economy, the impact of climate change and the need for brands to be more sustainable and going direct to consumer. We barely scratch the surface of his book, but it will give you a flavour of what's to come.

Brand Transformation with Dr Emmanuel Probst

In this episode of the Through the Line podcast, Kate and I explore how to use Artificial intelligence (AI)I to grow internationally. The obvious avenue is with translation, but there's so much more for marketers to think about; everything from market testing to CX, getting the right skills in your marketing team, and of course, asset creation. There's a lot to think about, and Kate explores them in practical, easy-to-understand terms. If you're wondering what to do with all the AI hype, you'll enjoy our conversation.

AI-Powered International Marketing with Kate Cox

Remember social media? Despite being out of the limelight, social media is no less important. In fact, as my guest on this show, Claire Hoang, suggests, it's even more important; many of our audiences are now social media natives. They have never known a world without social, so it's no time to lose our heads and focus on another shiny penny. 

In this episode of Through the Line, Claire takes me through how brands can utilise social media to engage their audiences and build brands. In a wide-ranging conversation, Claire and I look at everything from the importance of native content, supporting organic with paid social, the importance of attention, brand building rather than pushing product in an always-on world, brand safety and even touch on regulating social media. If you're in any way involved in social media strategy, you'll find some value in this episode.

Social Media Strategy with Claire Hoang

Have you ever been asked to justify your marketing spending? How about whether your marketing is actually working?
I will be amazed if you haven’t. All marketers need to justify their existence at some point; otherwise, we get labelled with derogatory pap like ‘the colouring in department’. Thank goodness for experts like Gabe Hughes.

According to Gabe, we should all be able to assign value to our marketing. To do this, there’s a marketing measurement trifecta that includes digital attribution, econometrics, and incrementality or A/B testing.

By using these models, marketers can get to grips with the marketing that works at a brand level and also sales performance, including which channels and campaigns are adding value.

Gabe is a true expert on marketing measurement. In the show, we cover everything from data being the new oil to the value of different types of attribution models and the pros and cons of GA4. I promise you there is value in this show if you are new to marketing measurement or just want to enhance your understanding of the options available for measuring marketing performance.

Measuring Marketing Performance with Gabe Hughes

A common challenge for B2B marketers is how to reach a C'Suite audience.  

After all, they're the decision-makers, right? So we really need to get some content in front of the CMO, CFO, CRO, C whatever O, but they are notoriously hard to reach, let alone influence. Thankfully, the team at copywriting agency RH&Co did a little research into the type of content CxOs want to read, which they pulled together into a handy report for B2B marketers. 

Rin Hamburgh, the agency head, joined me on this episode of Through the Line to take me through the research. One of their key findings was that marketers underestimate the CxO's desire for things to be simple. They want complexity of thinking presented in a way that is simple and engaging, and tied to the bigger picture. They don't want you to sell to them, nor do they have time for waffle. 

Click below and listen to the show if you want to find out more about engaging the C'Suite with your marketing.

Marketing to the C-Suite with Rin Hamburgh

60% of the World's population is now active on social media. It's probably time we learnt how to sell to them there then. 

In this latest episode of Through the Line, I'm joined by social selling expert Tim Hughes to explore the new world of sales. No doubt Tim is an expert in this space. Not only does he run an agency that trains and advises clients on how to sell better online, but he's also written THE book on the subject. 

In the show, Tim shares bucketloads of advice for how sales (and marketing) professionals need to shift their methodology forward to get better sales results. 

This show is 39 minutes and 34 seconds long. Surely you can invest that sort of time to find the secret sauce to greater sales.

Social Selling Masterclass with Tim Hughes

Building brand advocacy is at the top of a marketer's to-do list, but we rarely think of internal marketing to achieve it. Maybe we're missing a trick. What if you could use internal marketing to create a tribe of advocates to help grow our brand? 

In this latest episode of Through the Line, I'm joined by Kerry-Ann Stimpson, the CMO of Jamaican financial services firm JMMB Group and host of the Internal Marketing Podcast. 

In the show, Kerry-Ann introduces her passion for internal marketing and how it is critical in building her organisation's brand from the inside out.

Building Brand Advocates with Kerry-Ann Stimpson

Matt Nelson from Irresistable Films joins the podcast to talk about using facial recognition technology to create immersive video experiences for brands such as Bentley. You can find out more about Matt at www.irresistiblefilms.com. 

Matt Nelson on Creating Immersive Video Experiences

Search is one of those topics that's at the centre of digital marketing for many businesses, large and small. It's central because in essence search marketing is about putting your business/brand/product (delete as appropriate) in front of your customer at the exact moment they need it or at least are researching solutions for challenges they're facing or products they want. What better time to add that prospective customer to your sales funnel right?

The problem is, the world of search marketing is both complex and ever-changing. In English speaking countries, Google pretty much dominates, so you need to know how to play within its rules both for organic search and paid for search marketing. That's where the experts come in and that's exactly what Tom Jepson from Footprint Digital is all about. In this show, we explore the future of search marketing. We look at what's changing in consumer behaviour, how the technology landscape is evolving, taking in AI and machine learning, before discussing data-based decision making - the key to effective marketing, rather than relying on the HIPPOs. In fact, we cover a lot, touching on the world of attribution and the skills required to be a marketer in 2019 and beyond. 

Here are the resources mentioned in the show:
https://www.kaushik.net/avinash/
http://www.webanalytics20.com/
https://searchengineland.com/
https://moz.com/

To contact Tom:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomjepson/
https://www.footprintdigital.co.uk/

Techmap

Exploring the Future of Search Marketing with Tom Jepson

Running a marketing agency of any flavour requires grit, determination, some serious smarts and of course, persistence. Without these ingredients, you will do well to survive, let alone thrive. But what if your ambitions are loftier than simply survival or running a lifestyle business? What if you want to grow your agency and achieve some scale so that you can exit with a decent earn out?

Well, that's a challenge that a lot of agency owners tackle and with varying degrees of success. But if you're on that road, you'll enjoy this podcast episode with Kristin Luck, the founder of a growth consultancy called Scale House. Kristin is a serial entrepreneur having sold multiple market research businesses before setting up her consultancy. In this show, Kristin and I talk about the key ingredients of growing and scaling an agency business, from getting the founder out of the way, to systems, processes, culture and more. If you're interested in growing your agency business, there should be some good ideas in here for you to enjoy. 

Here are the resources mentioned in the show:
Masters of Scale Podcast
https://mastersofscale.com/
How I built This with Guy Raz
https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this
Growth IQ by Tiffani Bova
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0525534407/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_E5x3CbXA8AY9C
Sell with a Story by Paul Smith https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GW9XH84/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_n6x3CbDASEVWS

To contact Kristin:
https://www.scalehouse.consulting/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinluck/

Growing and Scaling Agencies with Kristin Luck

A critical part of working in agency land is business development. For whatever reason, most agencies are always on the hunt for new business; it's like being on a treadmill that never stops. But just like the plumber who's toilet doesn't flush, most marketing agencies are lousy at marketing themselves. 

It's not that we don't know how...or is it? 

In this episode of the podcast, I interview the formidable Katy Howell from leading social media agency, Immediate Future. Katy's a true professional, and it was great fun talking with her as we explored business cycles, the impact of Brexit and uncertainty in the market, JVs/partnerships and so much more.  

If you want to learn about best practice when it comes to agency business development, how to build client relationships and what it takes to grow an agency from someone with 30 years agency experience under her belt, well then you're in the right place.

Growing Agencies with Katy Howell

Through the Line with Andy Bargery features interviews with leading marketing and agency professionals. Each episode aims to explore a topic related to marketing and communications performance, or the business of marketing i.e. running agencies. Through the Line is brought to you by Agency Squared. 

Find out more about through the Line and Agency Squared at: www.agencysquared.co.uk/thinking.

Through the Line was formerly known as Techmap: Digital Marketing Podcast. However, as the topics of conversation on the podcast evolved, so did the name and branding.

Through the Line with Andy Bargery

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