Centering: Season 8 (Asian American Biblical Scholarship)

Centering: Season 10 (Toxic Ministry... For God's Glory?)

In 1996, Helen Lee called the trend of 2nd-generation Korean Americans leaving their ethnic churches a "silent exodus". This week, she joins us to discuss how many Asian Americans and their ethnic churches continue to wrestle with cultural, theological, and social tensions. 
(Ed. note: This podcast was prerecorded on 1/8/21)

5x09 - A Silent Exodus: The Death of Asian American Churches?

Welcome back to Centering! This season is a series of conversations on "Race and Grace" between Dr. Daniel D. Lee and Dr. Alex Jun. We start off with a conversation about Critical Race Theory: what is it, why does it make so many people so angry, and what do Asian American Christians need to know about it?

6x01 - What IS Critical Race Theory?

In this season's final episode, Daniel and Alexander talk about the future of America: where will conversations around race go? What will be the issues that continue to arise around race, power, and inequity? And how can the Christian church bear faithful witness amidst it all?

6x08 - Critical Race Theory and Our Nation's Future

Dr. Jeannie Celestial is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist (PhD) and Psychotherapist. This week, she joins Jay and Eleanor to speak about how therapy can speak specifically to FilAm communities. 

Dr. Celestial's new book Clinical Interventions for Internalized Oppression is out now! You can find her at sweetmangotherapy.com and @jeanniecelestial

Dr. Celestial is offering consultation groups for Filipinx/a/o therapists. Please fill out this form, with a free values assessment, if you are interested: tinyurl.com/celestialcentering

7x08 - Healing the Filipino American Soul (Dr. Jeannie Celestial)

Please consider supporting Centering with a donation at fuller.edu/giveAAC

And stay tuned for Season 8 of Centering launching THIS week - with Professor Janette Ok interviewing other biblical scholars on biblical scholarship for the Asian American church.

Please Consider Donating to Centering!

Welcome back to Centering! Dr. Janette Ok hosts this season about biblical scholarship for the Asian American church. In this first episode, Dr. Jordan Ryan talks about his work literally unearthing the context of 1st century Israel/Palestine, its parallels with his experiences of race and marginalization in North America, and global Filipino diaspora.

8x01 - Race and the Margins of the Bible (Dr. Jordan Ryan)

This week on Centering, Dr. Roger Nam joins Janette to talk about his journey into biblical scholarship. Dr. Nam is Professor of Hebrew Bible at Emory University, a minister, and explores in-depth the ways that the economic context of ancient Israel can help illuminate and explore the Bible, focusing on Ezra-Nehemiah.

8x02 - What Does Blessing Look Like? (Dr. Roger Nam)

This week, Dr. Gale Yee, Professor of Biblical Studies emerita (Episcopal Divinity School) and the first Asian American woman president of the Society of Biblical Literature, joins us to share her experiences as a prominent Asian American biblical scholar and the difficult work of rescuing the Hebrew Bible from a narrow-minded normativity.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:
-https://theology.sewanee.edu/education-for-ministry/
-Course texts: https://theology.sewanee.edu/files/resources/efm-books-handout-2021-2025-2.pdf

8x03 - The Histories We Aren't Taught (Dr. Gale Yee)

For our first episode of 2023, Centering welcomes Dr. Jung Choi of Duke Divinity School. A scholar-teacher trained in the New Testament and early Christianity, Dr. Choi shares about the Biblical importance of ecumenism, healthy tension within Christianity, and the power dynamics of voice and visibility.

*Since recording, Dr. Choi's role at Duke is now Associate Dean for Global and Intercultural Formation and Director of the Asian House of Studies

8x04 - Shaking Hands With the Pope... (Dr. Jung Choi)

This week, Dr. Ekaputra Tupamahu, Asst. Prof of New Testament (George Fox University) joins Janette to share about speaking in tongues, inviting discomfort into our churches, and centering theology on the real experiences of new immigrants.

8x05 - The Language of Christianity? (Dr. Ekaputra Tupamahu)

This week, Professor Lisa Cleath of Princeton Theological Seminary joins Janette to discuss her work on social justice and the Bible. How can our imaginations of race and justice inform our readings of the Bible? How should our experiences influence our faith? What does the Bible have to say about multiracial and other Asian American identities?

8x06 - Race and Justice in the Bible (Dr. Lisa Cleath)

This week, Dr. Max Lee of North Park Theological Seminary joins Janette, sharing his research into the theology of pleasure; the connections between sexual intimacy and spiritual life; and the ways that Asian American theological convictions should be brought to the Bible

8x07 - The Theology of Pleasure (Dr. Max Lee)

This week, Dr. Chloe Sun joins Janette to speak about Song of Songs: why is such an abstract lyrical work included in the Bible? And what can this text, without a single explicit mention of God, reveal about God's seeming "absences"? Dr. Sun is Professor of Old Testament Studies at Logos Evangelical Seminary in Los Angeles.

8x08 - The "Absence" of God? (Dr. Chloe Sun)

In the final episode of Season 8, Dr. Nijay Gupta joins Janette for a passionate conversation about his work making Biblical scholarship accessible and available to those in the Church - the joy of melding spiritual life, academic research, and teaching others - and embracing the messiness of negotiating Asian cultural heritage and Biblical conviction.

8x09 - The Joy of Biblical Scholarship(Dr. Nijay Gupta)

9x01 - Language: Asian American Identity and Experience

9x02 - Panethnicity: What is Asian American?

9x03 - History: Do Asian Americans Have a History?

9x04 - Knowledge: When Personal Experience Isn't Enough

9x05 - Lenses: Because Not Everything's Cultural

9x06 - Nuances: Pathologies & Ideals

9x07 - Coherence: Narratives & Reconciled Identities

9x08 - Representation: Empowerment, Healing, and Hope

In this episode of Centering: The Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee introduce the season's focus on toxic ministry. They discuss how abuse is often justified in God's name, turning obedience into oppression. The conversation delves into the discernment needed to identify toxic leadership and move towards healing and healthy spiritual leadership. They share personal experiences, discuss the challenges of abusive ministry contexts, and emphasize the importance of theological grounding. Future episodes will feature guest speakers and topics like spiritual gaslighting, authoritarianism, and examples of toxic leadership in various ministry contexts.


00:00 Introduction to the Podcast
00:47 Meet the Hosts: Yulee and Daniel
03:40 The Genesis of the New Season
05:09 Understanding Toxic Ministry
07:25 The Spectrum of Toxic Leadership
12:21 Navigating Toxic Environments
20:22 The Dangers of Religious Claims
20:48 Personal Struggles in Ministry
21:49 Toxic Ministry Environments
24:15 Community and Cultural Challenges
26:26 Theological Reflections on Ministry
34:17 Upcoming Episodes and Final Thoughts

Fuller’s Asian American Center - aac.fuller.edu

Leading Change and Loving People, Change Management Insights from the Non-Profit Sector by Yulee Lee https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781003272243/leading-change-loving-people-yulee-lee

About Min Chung and CFC https://www.wbez.org/race-class-communities/2021/08/02/a-reckoning-at-covenant-fellowship-church

Letters from Rahab Instagram Profile
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Ef9Qku9mr/

If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: https://fundraise.givesmart.com/form/lhJydg?vid=18eqio

Centering 10x1 - Discerning Toxic Ministry... For God's Glory?

In the latest episode of Centering: The Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee delve further into the challenging topic of toxic ministry. The conversation highlights the necessity of discernment in ministry, distinguishing between toxic and simply unhealthy environments. They introduce the concept of “spiritual bypassing,” where spiritual language and “Christianese” is used to avoid addressing real issues. Personal stories and examples from the Bible illustrate how authentic spiritual maturity involves embracing and processing one's emotions rather than bypassing them for a facade of spirituality. 

00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry
00:48 Understanding the Distinction Between Toxic and Dysfunctional Ministries
05:41 The Role of Grace in Enabling Abuse
06:53 Personal Stories of Ministry Abuse
12:11 Spiritual Bypassing vs. Spiritual Maturity
20:07 The Confusion of Discernment
20:19 Daniel's Story on Anger
20:42 The Complexity of Anger in Christianity
22:48 Spiritual Bypassing and Its Dangers
24:01 The Importance of Authenticity in Faith
25:36 The Role of Psalms in Prayer
26:37 Challenges in Ministry and Spiritual Manipulation
28:35 Embracing a Broad Spirituality
30:09 Avoiding Spiritual Bypassing
36:25 The Need for Honest Struggle in Faith
39:05 Concluding Thoughts on Toxic Ministry

Devotional Classics by Richard Foster https://www.harpercollins.com/products/devotional-classics-revised-edition-richard-j-foster?variant=32116217479202

Spiritual Bypassing by Robert Masters https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/spiritual-bypassing/

Emotionally Healthy Church, Peter Scazzero Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, Peter Scazzero https://www.harpercollinschristian.com/author/369/peter-scazzero/

KPop Demon Hunters
https://www.netflix.com/title/81498621

If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: https://fundraise.givesmart.com/form/lhJydg?vid=18eqio

Centering 10x2 - Spiritual Bypassing... For God's Glory?

This Giving Tuesday, support the work we do at the AAC! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

Spiritual Gaslighting…For God’s Glory?
In this episode of Centering: the Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Daniel Lee and Yulee Lee explore spiritual gaslighting, using scriptural examples and personal anecdotes, to illustrate its damaging effects on individuals and community health. Daniel and Yulee emphasize the importance of discernment, the need for genuine lament, and finding emotionally safe communities to navigate and heal from such toxic environments. They encourage listeners to anchor themselves in the true character of God and process their experiences honestly without bypassing pain and reality.

00:00 Introduction and Milestone Celebration
01:02 Season Overview: Toxic Ministry
01:49 Episode 3: Honest Conversations on Toxic Ministry
02:59 The Dangers of Spiritual Bypassing
05:51 Biblical Counseling and Its Pitfalls
12:24 Personal Story: Confronting Toxic Leadership
20:06 Recognizing Spiritual Gaslighting
21:59 Understanding Spiritual Gaslighting
22:23 Cultish Behavior in Churches
23:07 Examples of Spiritual Abuse
25:49 Personal Stories of Spiritual Abuse
27:53 Theological Reflections on Suffering
32:10 The Importance of Lament and Community
36:46 Practical Steps for Healing
40:54 Concluding Thoughts on Discernment

Emotionally Healthy Church, Peter Scazzero Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, Peter Scazzero https://www.harpercollinschristian.com/author/369/peter-scazzero/

Bruggemann Loss of Genuine Lament
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/030908928601103605

Cultish by Amanda Montell https://amandamontell.com/cultish/

Centering 10x3 - Spiritual Gaslighting... For God's Glory?

Authoritarianism…For God’s Glory?
In this episode of the Centering: the Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee are joined by guest Gabriel Jay Catanus (Director of the Filipino American Ministry Initiative and Affiliate Assistant Professor of Theology and Ethics at Fuller Seminary; Lead Pastor of Garden City Covenant Church - Chicago), who shares insights on the pitfalls of authoritarianism within church leadership, drawing parallels from historical examples like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's criticism of Nazi Germany and discussing how immigrant church communities can inadvertently foster toxic leadership dynamics. The conversation also highlights the importance of plurality, cultural sensitivity, and self-reflection in cultivating healthy spiritual leadership. The episode concludes with practical advice for leaders to avoid believing their own hype and for communities to focus on collaborative and ethical leadership practices.

00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry
00:48 Understanding Authoritarianism in Ministry
03:11 Guest Introduction: Gabriel Jay Catanus
04:49 Authority and Power Dynamics in Churches
08:43 Cultural and Spiritual Influences on Leadership
12:35 Charismatic Authority and Its Challenges
21:02 Navigating Spiritual Power and Leadership
27:24 Muscular Christianity and Nazi Ideology
28:10 Identifying Authoritarian Leaders
29:26 Embracing Plurality in Leadership
31:20 Efficiency vs. Plurality in Ministry
32:18 Challenges for Asian American Leaders
35:59 God's Relationship with Authority
37:13 Personal Reflections on Leadership
46:42 Concluding Thoughts and Future Topics

Dr. Gabriel Jay Catanus https://www.gabrieljcatanus.com/

Fuller’s Asian American Center aac.fuller.edu

The Grand Inquisitor by Dostoevsky https://www.gutenberg.org/files/8578/8578-h/8578-h.htm

The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-brothers-karamazov-a-new-translation-by-michael-r-katz-fyodor-dostoevsky/aefeb2fa8f45adb1

Bonhoeffer's 1933 radio address https://books.google.com/books?id=PF1cpVfZS60C&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false

If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

Centering 10x4 - Authoritarianism... For God's Glory? (Dr. Gabriel Jay Catanus)

Spirit’s Anointing…For God’s Glory?
In this episode of Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee explore the unlikely convergence of the biblical story of Samson, fermentation of kimchi, and iconic Jane Austen characters. The topic, Spirit’s Anointing…For God’s glory? highlights the dangers of conflating giftedness with divine favor, the importance of character over charisma, and the critical need for communal discernment and accountability structures, emphasizing that the anointing of the Spirit is made apparent through the evidence of the fruits of the Spirit. They draw on theological insights, personal anecdotes, and historical examples to emphasize the potential pitfalls of toxic ministry. The episode underscores the necessity for spiritual leaders to embody Christ-like humility and to engage in practices that promote healthy, sustainable, and God-centered leadership.

00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry
01:16 Recap of Previous Episode
01:54 The Dangers of Public Figures and Parasocial Relationships
04:36 The Misuse of Spiritual Anointing
07:44 The Importance of Communal Discernment
08:56 Character vs. Charisma in Leadership
14:37 The Role of Wisdom and Maturity
16:07 Distinguishing True Movements of God
18:06 White Christian Nationalism and NAR
20:34 The Importance of Accountability in Leadership
24:36 Avoiding Desperation in Ministry
26:37 The Dangers of Familiarity with Holy Things
29:53 Final Thoughts and Reflections

The Violent Take It by Force by Matthew D. Taylor https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9781506497785/The-Violent-Take-It-by-Force

About the New Apostolic Reformation https://www.npr.org/2011/10/03/140946482/apostolic-leader-weighs-religions-role-in-politics

If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

Centering 10x5 - Spirit's Anointing... For God's Glory?

Sacrificial Faith…For God’s Glory?

In this episode of Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee discuss the concept of sacrificial faith, critiquing the unhealthy pressure to sacrifice personal well-being for ministry. They emphasize the importance of discerning genuine spiritual practices, recognizing God's presence in all aspects of life, and living with integrity. Join the conversation to rethink what true, life-giving sacrifice means in the context of healthy spiritual leadership.


00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry
01:11 Personal Stories of Sacrifice
03:02 Theological Insights on Sacrifice
06:14 Equating Church with God
12:20 Toxic Leadership and Manipulation
19:04 Living Sacrifices in Scripture
22:05 Understanding True Obedience to God
23:03 The Importance of Feeling Loved by God
23:49 Challenges of Growing Up in Church
24:46 Finding Joy in Serving God
25:42 Integrating God into Everyday Life
27:39 The Danger of Spiritual Disciplines Becoming Idols
35:16 Jesus' Invitation to Rest
40:04 Practical Ways to Live Out Faith
43:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts


Khora Collective https://khoracollective.com/


If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac


Centering 10x6 - Sacrificial Faith... For God's Glory?

On the first season of Centering, we're addressing "the big questions." In this first episode, host Kevin Doi sits down with Professor Daniel Lee (Fuller Seminary) to ask: why start a podcast? Daniel shares with us how our specific stories can bring glory to God, and why it is so important for the church to make the connections between our Asian American-ness and our Christianity.

1x01 - Why Another Podcast?

In our third episode, host Kevin Doi and Professor Daniel Lee of Fuller Seminary address a deceptively simple-sounding question: what IS Asian America?

Daniel describes the complexity of Asian Americans, from our diverse backgrounds to our national history of legalizing race. He also outlines "the Asian American Quadrilateral", a tool to help Christians and Christian leaders understand what Asian America shares in common - and even what we don't.

1x03 - What Is "Asian American"?

Marriage is hard! But with help, it's possible to make it through alive.

In this episode, expert married couple Scott and Sandra So Hee Chi Kim join Jessica ChenFeng to break down what's worked (and what didn't) in their marriage, from family-of-origin dynamics, internalized contexts, and how partner relationships can impact parenting.

3x06 - The Keys to Long-Term Marital Satisfaction

We're back! This season, historians Dr. Tim Tseng and Professor Jane Hong guide us through our Asian American Christian history. This first episode, they start by answering the question: why should anyone - Asian Americans and/or Christians - care about such a specific field?

5x01 - Why Care About Asian American Christian History?

Activist Yuri Kochiyama held Malcolm X as he died. She was a Sunday School teacher, American concentration camp survivor, and activist leader. Ethicist Dr. Grace Kao joins Jane and Tim this week to share how Yuri's Christian upbringing grounded her organizing, and can be a model for Asian American Christians engaging in racial justice.

5x02 - Is There Room for Us in Racial Justice? (Yuri Kochiyama)

Bishop Roy Sano was incarcerated during World War II, led the fight for a distinct Asian American voice in the United Methodist Church, and directed the groundbreaking work of PACTS, the Pacific and Asian American Center for Theologies and Strategies. This week, he joins Tim and Jane to share his lived insights on Asian American Christian history.

5x03 - From Concentration Camps to Civil Rights (Roy Sano)

Centering is the Asian American Christian Podcast: conversations on Christ, the Christian life, and Asian American perspectives.

Through our podcast seasons, as well as specially presented content, we dive into the reality and beauty of living out Asian American Christian faith.

Centering is a production of the Center for Asian American Theology and Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary.

Centering: The Asian American Christian Podcast

Pinned to spotlight

Popular tracks