Dale's interview with Michael Fischerkeller, co-author of the bood Cyber Persistence Theory. The first half of the interview digs into Cyber Persistence Theory.  Why Michael believes cyber is a new and third strategic environment (in addition to conventional and nuclear) What is meant by cyber being an environment of exploitation and not coercion The theory's different use of initiative and why the theory believes it is the important element to winning ("initiative rather than restraint is necessitated") How a series of smaller, fait accompli, actions that are not responded to can have a strategic-level cumulative effect  The second half of the interview looks at what the world will look like and what asset owners should do if multiple nations believe in and act on this Cyber Persistence Theory.&nbsp;  Michael argues it already is in place and the US is late to the game Persistence presence in critical infrastructure would not "cross the threshold" How organizations will reach a cyber agreed competition Will this be escalatory (Michael says no)  Dale believes this is an incredibly important theory to understand because it is taking hold in the world's major powers. Links

Cyber Persistence Theory

Steve Mustard took his 30 years of experience and wrote , published by ISA. After talking about who the book is for and the writing process, Dale and Steve dig into the details.&nbsp; Given Steve's longtime involvement and leadership with ISA, it's not surprising the book leans heavily on ISA/IEC 62443. They talk chapters on architecture, certification, optimism / pessimism, risk management and a fundamental misunderstanding of IT by OT. Some agreement, some disagreement, and always a civil discourse.

Book Interview: Industrial Cybersecurity with Steve Mustard

Dale Peterson interviewed Puesh Kumar on the S4x23 Main Stage. Puesh is the Director of the US Dept of Energy's Cybersecurity, Energy Security, & Emergency Response (CESER). The lead US Government OT cybersecurity agency in the energy sector. After Puesh gives a 3 minute overview on CESER, they dig into it.  How are they measuring CRISP's detection and analysis progress? Has it stopped or limited the impact of any attacks? What is one of the CESER programs that didn't work and what did they learn from it? Why is the US Government testing products for GE, Hitachi and other large companies and questioning the results. The push for Cyber Informed Engineering and what success looks like Competing with industy and more ... CESER is tackling a lot so there was much to squeeze into 30 minutes

Puesh Kumar - Director of Dept of Energy's CESER

Dale Peterson talks with Matt Wyckhouse, Founder and CEO, of Finite State about where the SBOM products and market is today and where it will go in the future. This discussion was informed by the SBOM Challenge at S4x23.  Who is the primary buyer of SBOM products and services today? (Hint: Matt thinks that 80% of the code in a product is third party) How accurate are the products, and the Finite State product in particular, in creating a SBOM? How much is the value of a SBOM degraded if it is not perfect? If it is missing software or has inaccuracies? Are the offerings now a product? A semi-custom service that uses a developed product? (with an apt comparison to the detection market) What will the US Government do with all these SBOMs if they actually get them? If they get an exponential increase in software inventory and the patching and cyber maintenance burden. Will there be a separate/distinct OT SBOM market? Will there be a SBOM market in the long run or will it get subsumed in some sort of asset management market? Early thoughts on the SBOM marketplace (a place to collect and distribute and respond to queries on SBOMs) Where is the industry / products now on VEX? Do configuration files belong in a SBOM? Surprise data points from the SBOM Challenge

The OT SBOM Market

In this solosode episode Dale reviews the status of his three predictions from the Q1, 2 and 3 quarter in review episodes and answers a listener question.

Predictions Analyzed

Dale Peterson interviews guests who are pushing and prodding the ICS community to improve cyber security, as well as those in related fields with innovative ideas the ICS community should consider. Dale began his career as a NSA Cryptanalyst, has been securing ICS for over 15 years, and is the founder and program chair of the S4 Conference.

Unsolicited Response