The latest episode of Everyday Injustice takes on one of the least understood but most destructive aspects of the criminal legal system: fines and fees. Host David Greenwald speaks with Lillian Patil and Tanisha Pire of the Fines and Fees Justice Center about their new report, Imposing Instability: How Court Fines and Fees Destabilize Government Budgets and Criminalize Those Who Cannot Pay. Their research exposes how state and local governments across the country rely on fines and fees not only as a tool of punishment, but also as a hidden and unstable source of revenue.

Patil and Pire explain how fines and fees are imposed at nearly every stage of the system—from traffic tickets and public defender applications to probation supervision—and how this creates what they describe as a “hidden tax” on low-income communities. Over five years, courts in just 24 states imposed nearly $14 billion in fines and fees. Yet much of this debt is uncollectible because the people charged cannot pay, leaving families destabilized and governments still facing budget gaps.

The conversation highlights the human toll: people losing driver’s licenses, facing arrest warrants, being pushed into cycles of debt, and even incarceration because they lacked the ability to pay. As Pire notes, courts rarely conduct ability-to-pay assessments, meaning people are penalized not for their actions but for their poverty. Patil points out that governments often spend more trying to collect this money than they ever receive, making the practice both unjust and fiscally unsound.

Despite these harms, reform has been slow. Some states, like California, have eliminated license suspensions and discharged uncollectible debt, but many continue to depend on fines and fees even as revenues decline. Patil and Pire argue that sustainable, equitable funding must replace this failing system. Their report makes clear that fines and fees are “bad for people, bad for budgets,” and that bold reform is urgently needed.


Everyday Injustice Podcast Episode 301: How Fines and Fees Punish Poverty and Destabilize Budgets

David Thorne is serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for allegedly hiring an acquaintance to kill the mother of his son, however, he never hired anyone nor did the acquaintance do the crime.  

Sometime between the evening hours on March 31, 1999 and 12:00 p.m. on April 1, 1999, Yvonne Layne, a mother of 5, was murdered in her home with one solid and steady slit to her throat.  

David Thorne was convicted of complicity to aggravated murder/murder for hire on January 25, 2000 by a 12 person jury.  

The police investigating the crime had tunnel vision throughout their investigation, narrowing in on David from the beginning.

The investigators were unable to get David to confess, so instead they went after his acquaintance, Joseph Wilkes, who was barely 18 years of age and a high school dropout.  

After a lengthy interrogation, during which they told Joseph that David was “next door ratting him out”, he confessed, utilizing the story that the police had fed to him to what the police were telling him happened.  

Joe took a plea deal and David went to trial.  Despite the lack of physical evidence of either Joe or David being at the scene and a poor police investigation, with very weak circumstantial evidence, an innocent man was convicted.

Everyday Justice Podcast Episode 19: David Thorne and a Murder For Hire That Wasn't

MIriam Krinsky is Executive Director of the group Fair and Just Prosecution, which is helping transform the criminal justice system by highlighting the roles and responsibilities of prosecutors.

A former prosecutor, we talk about how things have changed over the course of her career, the current progressive prosecution movement and what that means for this country.

Everyday Injustice Podcast Episode 36 - Miriam Krinsky and the Progressive Prosecutor Movement

Jose Garza is another former public defender and federal public defender, currently  the co-executive director of the Austin-based nonprofit Workers Defense Project, and running for prosecutor in Travis County, Texas home of Austin.

Right before we recorded the podcast, he got a big endorsement from Elizabeth Warren.

“With José as district attorney, Travis County will gain another champion in the fight to transform our criminal justice system,” Warren said in a statement. “As an experienced public servant with a proven track record of standing up for working families, I know that José will be the fighter that Travis County communities deserve.”

Listen as we talk about criminal justice reform and the need for progressive prosecutors in Austin, Texas.

Everyday Injustice Podcast Episode 37 - Jose Garza Runs For DA in Travis County, Texas

Julie Gunnigle is the latest in our progressive prosecutor series on Everyday Injustice.

She is running as a reformer in a district long held by Bill Montgomery.  In addition, Maricopa County is well known as the home of notorious Sheriff Joe Arpaio.  

Among the issues Ms. Gunnigle spoke to on Everyday Injustice, liberalization of marijuana policies.  Arizona is the only state for whom even a trace amount of marijuana possession is charged as a misdemeanor and Bill Montgomery was notorious for filing charges in marijuana cases.

Everyday Injustice Podcast Episode 40 - Julie Gunnigle Takes on Maricopa Prosecutor

In 2019, Tiffany Caban, a career public defender ran for DA in QUeens, NY and came within an eyelash of beating the establishment backed candidate.

Ms. Caban talks about what she is doing today and the ramifications of her race as well as the future of the progressive prosecution movement.

Everday Injustice Podcast Episode 50 - Tiffany Caban former Queens DA Candidate

Buta Biberai was elected last year as Commonwealth Attorney in Loudon County Virginia.  She ran as the progressive reformer and became the first new top prosecutor in 16 years. 

Criminal justice reform looks a bit different in suburban Virginia, what has traditionally been more red but has over time shifted.

We talk about the issues and challenges of reform in Virginia and it how it differs from other places that we have spoken about.

Everyday Injustice Podcast Episode 52 - Virginia Prosecutor Buta Biberaj

Davis Vanguard Podcast will be covering criminal justice reform, mass incarceration, wrongful convictions, and more.

Everyday Injustice Podcast Episode 301: How Fines and Fees Punish Poverty and Destabilize Budgets

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