“What's healing is the self to part relationship. And that relationship gets built based on the part being able to tell its story without repercussions.”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Dr. Robert Grant. Dr. Grant is an Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist, a ketamine-assisted psychotherapist, a pulmonary physician, a professor of medicine at UCSF, a former researcher in HIV prevention and treatment, and a cofounder of the Healing Realms Center (healingrealmscenter.com). The Healing Realms Center is a clinic specializing in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.

Dr. Grant is especially well known for his work as an IFS therapist specializing in ketamine treatments. IFS was developed by Dr. Richard C. Schwartz. It is a therapy based on the notion that the human mind is made up of inner parts. And healing involves the cultivation of harmony among these parts. It is commonly used in the treatment of post-traumatic stress.




In this interview Dr. Joe and Dr. Grant explored:

- How his research into preventing HIV led him to studying IFS
- What “parts” mean in the IFS model
- The three most common types of parts: Managers, Exiles, and Firefighters
- What “self” mean in the context of IFS
- How parts become burdened by trauma
- The role of “self” in healing
- The 6 F’s: Find, Focus, Flesh it out, Feel, beFriend, and Fear
- What ‘unblending’ is
- Why IFS fits so well with psychedelics

Dr. Robert Grant on Internal Family Systems Therapy

“As if in each of us
There once was a fire
And for some of us
There seem as if there are only ashes now
But when we dig in the ashes
We find one ember
And very gently we fan that ember
Blow on it
It gets brighter
And from that ember we rebuild the fire
Only thing that's important is that ember
That's what you and I are here to celebrate”
- Ram Dass quote, lyrics from “Sit Around the Fire”


Some big news before we get to the episode with Jon Hopkins: This episode of the Mindspace podcast will be its last. Joe will be joining the team at the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast as a co-host. The Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast is hosted by Dr. Steve Thayer and Dr. Reid Robison. It is a “weekly conversation about psychedelics, research and the therapy that makes them so powerful as agents for lasting change in mental health.”

This last episode of the podcast will also be hosted on any of the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers platforms. You can find more information about that at psychedelictherapyfrontiers.com. Joe was also recently interviewed on the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast. You can find that episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts.

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Jon Hopkins, musician and producer. Jon is a prolific musician who specializes in electronic music. He has been playing music for over 20 years. He has written six studio albums and has collaborated and produced albums for Coldplay and Brian Eno. His album, Singularity, received a Grammy nomination for Best Dance/Electronic Album in December 2018.

He also collaborated with Brian Eno to create music for Wavepaths. Wavepaths was founded by Mendel Kaelen and Anna Wakefield. The purpose of Wavepaths is to create therapeutic tools that integrate “psychedelic science, machine learning, music theory, psychotherapies and experience design, in collaboration with artists, therapists and researchers.”

His newest album, Music for Psychedelic Therapy, was specifically written to be used in psychedelic therapy sessions. 

In this interview Dr. Joe and Jon explored:
- What motivated him to write Music for Psychedelic Therapy
- His collaborative project with Brian Eno, Wavepaths
- The importance of music in psychedelic therapy and set and setting
- How pain is essential for beauty
- His Transcendental Meditation practice
- How he used Ketamine to write Music for Psychedelic Therapy
- Why instrumental music is better suited for psychedelic experiences
- The inclusion of a Ram Dass speech in “Sit Around the Fire”
- The impact of smartphones on our psyche
- What live music is like after an extended break due to COVID

Jon's website: jonhopkins.co.uk

Jon Hopkins on Music for Psychedelic Therapy

Get inspired and stay motivated with insights from health professionals, mindfulness teachers, scientists, business leaders, artists, and peak performers. Join Montreal psychologist Dr. Joe Flanders in his long-form discussions of the science and practice of well-being with well-known thought-leaders. Joe stays grounded in evidence-based practices, while exploring innovative and controversial trends in the well-being space. The conversations are unscripted and real so you’ll get accessible explanations of cutting-edge ideas as well as the personal backstories behind them. Get some Mindspace.

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