Neel Nanda joins the podcast to talk about mechanistic interpretability and how it can make AI safer. Neel is an independent AI safety researcher. You can find his blog here: https://www.neelnanda.io

Timestamps: 
00:00 Introduction 
00:46 How early is the field mechanistic interpretability? 
03:12 Why should we care about mechanistic interpretability? 
06:38 What are some successes in mechanistic interpretability? 
16:29 How promising is mechanistic interpretability? 
31:13 Is machine learning analogous to evolution? 
32:58 How does mechanistic interpretability make AI safer? 
36:54 36:54 Does mechanistic interpretability help us control AI? 
39:57 Will AI models resist interpretation? 
43:43 Is mechanistic interpretability fast enough? 
54:10 Does mechanistic interpretability give us a general understanding? 
57:44 How can you help with mechanistic interpretability? 

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Neel Nanda on Avoiding an AI Catastrophe with Mechanistic Interpretability

Drawing on neuroscience, psychology, and lived experience, Matt Zeemon discusses the power of psychedelics for quieting the ego, rekindling love, facing pain, and opening the heart.

This time on the BHNN Guest Podcast, Matt Zeemon explores:
- Psychedelics as catalysts for healing, not cures
- Matt’s first psychedelic experience and reconnecting with his mother
- Western psychological medicine as a bandaid approach versus working to find the root cause
- Breaking repetitive thinking patterns ourselves
- Uncovering what relative risk means
- The mental health crisis in our country, especially among veterans 
- How we all have psychedelic usage within our lineage 
- The social politics of psychedelic substances 
- Ways to create safe, sacred space for yourself and others on their journeys
- What it truly means to walk each other home

“We all have a psychedelic lineage. This is not something that is unusual, we just have to go back a little further in our ancestry tree. The fact that the church and state tried to suppress it doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to our own lineage.” –Matt Zeemon

About Matt Zeemon:
Matt Zemon, MSc, is a best-selling author and thought leader at the intersection of psychedelics, science, and spiritual experience. With a Master’s in Psychology and Neuroscience of Mental Health, he blends modern research with timeless wisdom to support safe, intentional psychedelic use. Inspired by teachers like Ram Dass, Matt’s work empowers spiritual seekers, veterans, and others on the path of healing and transformation. Learn more about Matt on his website.

About The Host, Jackie Dobrinska:
Jackie Dobrinska is the Director of Education, Community & Inclusion for Ram Dass’ Love, Serve, Remember Foundation and the current host of Ram Dass’ Here & Now podcast. She is also a teacher, coach, and spiritual director with the privilege of marrying two decades of mystical studies with 15 years of expertise in holistic wellness. As an inter-spiritual minister, Jackie was ordained in Creation Spirituality in 2016 and has also studied extensively in several other lineages – the plant-medicine-based Pachakuti Mesa Tradition, Sri Vidya Tantra, Western European Shamanism, Christian Mysticism, the Wise Woman Tradition, and others. Today, in addition to building courses and community for LSRF, she leads workshops and coaches individuals to discover, nourish and live from their most authentic selves. 


Walking Each Other Home: A Psychedelic Perspective on Healing and Connection, Ram Dass Explorer's Club with Matt Zeemon and Jackie Dobrinska - BHNN Guest Podcast Ep. 234

Celebrating the release of There Is No Other, a new book of teachings from Ram Dass’ lectures, Parvati Markus and Raghu Markus listen to and reflect on some of the material used in its creation.

This special episode of Mindrolling celebrates the new book, There Is No Other, a collection of teachings taken from Ram Dass’ lectures. In these times, Ram Dass’ teachings on wholeness and unity are more needed than ever.

We begin with a clip of Ram Dass exploring the mindset of “us versus them.” Who exactly is us? Who is them? Raghu and Parvati reflect on how this clip is central to the theme of There Is No Other.

The next clip features Ram Dass talking about the balance of heart and mind. Sharing a powerful real-life example, he explores how we cut ourselves off when we veil our hearts. Raghu and Parvati share how the book is about walking a path to harmony and wholeness.

The third clip finds Ram Dass examining Ramana Maharshi’s concept of “God, Guru, Self,” and how we can begin to appreciate that the Spirit is everywhere. Parvati and Raghu discuss how Ram Dass’ new book speaks to this really important moment in our lives.

We end with a brief clip of Ram Dass talking about the path of love. “Finally,” he says, “you become an environment, a vibratory rate…”

The Ram Dass community gathers regularly to engage in meaningful discussions about the podcast. We invite you to join us and share your curiosities, insights, and wisdom. Sign up for the General Fellowship to receive event invitations directly in your inbox.

“So the mind, if it gets too strong, out of balance with the heart, shuts down all the information that the heart can give. It cuts you off from your wisdom, really. You don’t even see all the stuff. I mean, you and I are simultaneously existing on so many planes of reality, but because of the power of our minds, we keep limiting which realities are real, and the rest of it we either treat as error or we don’t even notice. It’s so deeply unconscious, we just don’t even notice all the rest of us, of ourselves.” – Ram Dass

There Is No Other, New Ram Dass Book Release with Parvati & Raghu Markus | Mindrolling Ep. 622

Speaking to a room full of Buddhists and psychotherapists, Ram Dass explores the impact that Eastern traditions have had on his life and his extraordinary adventure of coming home to being human. 
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 
The Ram Dass community gathers regularly to engage in meaningful discussions about the podcast. We invite you to join us and share your curiosities, insights, and wisdom. Sign up for the General Fellowship to receive event invitations directly in your inbox: https://www.ramdass.org/fellowship/
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 
This episode of Here and Now comes from the keynote address Ram Dass gave at the 2nd Annual Buddhism & Psychotherapy Conference in 1987, which was sponsored by the Karma Kagyu Institute. 

Ram Dass begins by outlining his connection with the Kagyu lineage of Buddhism, sharing stories of his time with Trungpa Rinpoche. He then gives a brief recap of his journey in life and how he was eventually drawn towards Eastern writings and teachings.

Ram Dass talks about embracing Buddhist practices and his spiral path of bouncing back and forth between being in retreat and being in the marketplace of life. He explores how his work with dying people helped him embrace the extraordinary adventure of coming home to being human.

Sharing a story about Kalu Rinpoche, another friend in the Kagyu line, Ram Dass discusses honoring compassion and the different levels at which we can do service in the world. He wraps things up by saying, “I cannot conceivably repay the debt that I feel to the Eastern traditions for having introduced me to myself.”

“And I see that as an extraordinary adventure of coming home to being human. It’s interesting that more of the letters I’ve gotten in the past year have said to me, ‘Thank you for being human.’ Isn’t that bizarre? I mean, I’ve spent 25 years trying to be divine, and people write and thank me for being human. I mean, that just seems like a bizarre paradox to me.” – Ram Dass

About Ram Dass:
Ram Dass’s spirit has been a guiding light for generations, carrying millions along on the journey. Ram Dass teaches that through the Bhakti practice of unconditional love, we can all connect with our true nature. Through these teachings, Ram Dass has shared a little piece of his guru, Maharaj-ji, with all who have listened to him. Learn more at ramdass.org.

Ram Dass: Coming Home to Being Human | Here & Now Ep. 292

Celebrating the release of his new book of his favorite stories, All In This Together, Jack shares wise tales on living with integrity, presence, stillness, and generosity.

Ep. 311 – All In This Together Series #2- Stories of Meaning, Presence, and Living with Integrity

Environmental activist Robin Greenfield explores why separation is the biggest threat to humanity and how to become a servant to all.

Ep. 142 - Living in Service to All with Environmental Activist Robin Greenfield

Exploring the connections between Bharata Natyam dance and zazen, Anusha Enryu Fernando helps listeners remember the joy of practice.

This conversation was originally recorded on the Paths of Practice Podcast. You can get more episodes by subscribing to Paths of Practice on YouTube.

This time on the BHNN Guest Podcast, Anusha and Vincent discuss:
- Zen practice and doing full body meditations
- Bharata Natyam: a sacred and ancient dance that focuses on the mind-body connection
- Paying attention to the body so intently that there is no space for thought
- The non-abiding mind and continuing to move through human experience
- Understanding the devotional gestures that are built into zen practice
- Anusha’s profound experience learning Sanskrit for both ancient dance and studying the dharma 
- The most important vow: to really be alive in this life
- Food preparations, making offerings, and connecting with the ancestors through food
- How people get stuck on the first noble truth and forget that there is joy in practice

Check out The Great Vow Zen Monastery in Oregon and learn more about residencies, workshops, and more.

"Movement is a huge part of the experience of zazen. You're not sitting there like a fallen rock. The connecting with just the aliveness of that experience, that juicy, wonderful aliveness which is movement, is the practice.” –Anusha Enryu Fernando

About Anusha Enryu Fernando:
Anusha Enryu Fernando was born in Sri Lanka to a Theravadin Buddhist family. Her grandparents founded the Vipassana Meditation Centre located in Colombo, Sri Lanka in 1957. She began practicing Zen Meditation with Hogen and Chozen Roshi in 2007, and became a dharma holder in 2021. She holds a BA in Religious Studies, specializing in Buddhism and Hinduism from McGill University, and a Masters of Arts in Asian Studies from the University of British Columbia, specializing in Sanskrit. In her dissertation, she translated a Sanskrit poem of the life story of the Buddha, called the Padyacudamani. Enryu has been a teacher and performer of Bharata Natyam, a form of Indian Classical Dance, for the past thirty years and is the founder and Artistic Director of Shakti Dance Society. She has also been the book purchaser at Banyen Books and Sound, Vancouver’s iconic spiritual and metaphysical bookstore, for the past twenty-eight years. She is the mother of an adult daughter and lives with her husband, parents, and multiple furry friends in Vancouver, Canada. 

About Vincent Moore:
Vincent Moore is a creative and creative consultant living in San Francisco, California, with over a decade of experience in the entertainment industry and holds a graduate degree in Buddhist Studies. For years, he performed regularly at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre, an improv and sketch comedy theatre based in New York and Los Angeles. As an actor, Vincent performed on Comedy Central, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Late Show with Seth Meyers, Above Average, and The UCB Show on Seeso. As a writer, he developed for television as well as stage, including work with the Blue Man Group, and his own written projects have been featured on websites such as Funny or Die. Additionally, he received a Masters of Buddhist Studies from the Institute of Buddhist Studies with a Certificate in Soto Zen Studies and engages in a personal Buddhist practice within the Soto Zen tradition.

Dance & Zazen: Finding Joy in Practice | BHNN Guest Podcast Ep. 235

For episode 275, we are continuing a new series on the Metta Hour, centered on kids, in honor of Sharon’s first children’s book, Kind Karl, out now! 

Co-authored by Jason Gruhl, this illustrated picture book is for 4-8 year-olds and is a new children’s adaptation of Sharon’s beloved book Lovingkindness. 

For this podcast series, Sharon speaks with educators, caregivers, and researchers about the ways meditation, mindfulness, and lovingkindness can impact children of all ages and the family systems that support them. For the fourth episode of the series, Sharon speaks with Ali Smith, Andres Gonzales and Atman Smith of the Holistic Life Foundation.

Andy, Ali, and Atman co-founded the Holistic Life Foundation in 2001, a non-profit organization bringing yoga, meditation, and breath-work to thousands of at-risk kids in Baltimore and beyond. Their work has received wide national attention due to their remarkable results in public schools where suspension rates plummet and graduation rates skyrocket. Outside of the Holistic Life Foundation, Ali, Atman, and Andy also teach to diverse populations worldwide, including drug treatment centers, mental crisis facilities, homeless shelters, and Yoga, Wellness, and Mindfulness Festivals. 

Their first book, “Let Your Light Shine” was published in 2022 by Penguin Random House.

https://youtu.be/1CueugF1n74
In this conversation, Sharon, Atman, Andres and Ali speak about:
• The creation of the Holistic Life Foundation
• Experiencing meditation early in life
• Working in underserved communities
• Teaching with trauma awareness
• HLF Retreats and certification programs 
• The importance of sharing love 
• Benefits of mindfulness for kids
• Partnering with schools and education systems 
• Modifying practice for younger minds
• How to champion love
• Encouraging authentic, in-person interaction
• Giving from a place of overflow
• Caring for ourselves to better care for others

The episode closes with a guided practice. You can learn more about the Holistic Life Foundation’s work on their website and get a copy of the book“Let Your Light Shine”.

Metta Hour Kid's Series: Sharon Salzberg & The Holistic Life Foundation | Ep. 275

Exploring embodiment and self-realization, RamDev takes listeners on a journey through the four paths of yoga: Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Jñāna Yoga, and Raja Yoga.

Ep. 131 - The Four Paths of Yoga

Looking through a Jungian lens, Psychologist Dr. John Price and Raghu Markus have a discussion on the mechanics of awakening.

Ep. 624 – The Mechanics of Awakening with Dr. John Price

The Ram Dass community gathers regularly to engage in meaningful discussions about the podcast. 

We invite you to join us and share your curiosities, insights, and wisdom. Sign up for the General Fellowship to receive event invitations directly in your inbox: https://www.ramdass.org/fellowship/

This episode of Here and Now comes from an event at Spirit Rock Meditation Center on July 31, 2000. 

Ram Dass begins by exploring how Shiva is the aspect of God that rules over change. He talks about changing our self-concept from identification with our egos to identification with our souls. Devotional chanting, or kirtan, is one way to work on transforming ourselves. 

Speaking about merging with the Beloved, Ram Dass shares how his relationship with his guru evolved after Neem Karoli Baba left his body. He talks about the place of joy that exists inside all of us. That’s the yum-yum place.

Jai Uttal takes over and leads a rousing kirtan to connect us all to that yum-yum place. He begins by explaining the chant: “Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Jai Sita Ram. Sita, the infinite Goddess. Ram, the infinite God. Jai or Jaya, praise or victory.”

About Jai Uttal:
Jai Uttal is a Grammy-nominated sacred music composer, recording artist, multi-instrumentalist, and ecstatic vocalist. Having traveled extensively in India, he met many great saints and singers, and Bhakti Yoga became his personal path. Jai has been leading, teaching, and performing kirtan around the world for nearly 50 years. He creates a safe environment for people to open their hearts and voices. Kirtan Camp with Jai Uttal starts on January 25, 2026. 

About Ram Dass:
Ram Dass’s spirit has been a guiding light for generations, carrying millions along on the journey. Ram Dass teaches that through the Bhakti practice of unconditional love, we can all connect with our true nature. Through these teachings, Ram Dass has shared a little piece of his guru, Maharaj-ji, with all who have listened to him. Learn more at ramdass.org.

“You know those cherries, chocolate-covered cherries? They’re like hard on the outside, but they’re soft and yum, yum, yum inside. We are just chocolate-covered cherries. That’s all we are. And that yum, yum, yum, yum, that’s the joy, that’s the bhakti. Yum, yum, yum, yum. Because we meet each other in the yum-yum place.” – Ram Dass

Ram Dass: Where Souls Meet, With Kirtan by Jai Uttal | Here & Now Ep. 293

The Future of Life Institute (FLI) is a nonprofit working to reduce global catastrophic and existential risk from powerful technologies. In particular, FLI focuses on risks from artificial intelligence (AI), biotechnology, nuclear weapons and climate change.

The Institute's work is made up of three main strands: grantmaking for risk reduction, educational outreach, and advocacy within the United Nations, US government and European Union institutions.

FLI has become one of the world's leading voices on the governance of AI having created one of the earliest and most influential sets of governance principles: the Asilomar AI Principles.

Neel Nanda on Avoiding an AI Catastrophe with Mechanistic Interpretability

Future of Life Institute

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