Episode Description:
In this week’s episode of In the Sandbox, Matt Rall and Rachel Billups welcome the dynamic duo behind The Bearded Theologians, Matt Franks and Zach Bechtold. It's a conversation that blends deep theological reflection with humor, friendship, and a bit of nerddom. From Xbox theology to reclaiming lost words of faith, this crossover episode is packed with inspiration and laughs.

Discover the story of how two pastors turned a typhoon-filled mission trip into a nine-year podcasting adventure. They share their journey of exploring faith, fostering creativity, and creating safe spaces for theological conversations.

Whether you're here for their insights on rhythm and rest or just to find out why Sk8er Boi is the ultimate karaoke choice, there's something for everyone. Grab your shovel and join us in the sandbox as dreams take flight!

What You’ll Hear:
Origins of The Bearded Theologians: From Facebook banter to the Philippines, how Matt and Zach started their podcasting journey.
The Power of Friendship: How their bond fuels creativity and theological exploration.
Reclaiming Words: A thoughtful discussion on rescuing and redefining hijacked Christian terms like evangelism.
Finding God in the Ordinary: How sharing where they see God at work brings new life to their conversations.
Balancing Hustle and Rest: Insights on the spiritual discipline of taking a step back.
Speed Round Fun: Hot dogs or tacos? And yes, someone Googled “How tall is Big Bird.”
Key Quotes:
“Creativity isn’t born in the hustle—it’s born in rest.”
“Connectionalism works when it’s rooted in relationship.”
“We want to show what healthy theological conversations look like—unscripted, real, and full of love.”
Resources and Links:
The Bearded Theologians: Website | Instagram | Facebook
Hub for Innovation: Website | Email
Next Steps:
Subscribe to In the Sandbox for more creative conversations.
Follow The Bearded Theologians for their weekly episodes and insights.
Share this episode with a friend who needs a little faith and fun in their day.

In the sandbox Special Episode with the Bearded Theologians

Navigating Adaptive Leadership with Reverend Duane Anders

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups are joined by Reverend Duane Anders from the Cathedral of the Rockies. They explore Duane's leadership journey, his unapologetic vocal stance on the gospel and inclusion, and his innovative approaches within the church. Duane recounts experiences from his trip to Palestine, his adaptive leadership during the pandemic, and the collaborative initiatives between churches. The episode touches on profound topics including racial tensions, politics, and finding common ground despite differences. A light-hearted speed round at the end adds a bit of fun and personal insight into Duane's character.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:41 Meet Reverend Duane Anders
01:07 Duane's Journey and Achievements
01:47 Creating Inclusive Spaces
04:24 Adaptive Leadership in Action
05:08 Navigating the Pandemic
08:35 Innovative Worship Services
10:50 Challenges and Pivots
14:12 Prophetic Leadership and Social Issues
14:44 Solidarity Trip to Palestine
19:47 Surviving and Thriving Amidst Adversity
20:20 The Importance of Being Informed
20:37 Loving Your Enemy and Not Becoming Them
21:23 Navigating Controversial Topics in Congregations
22:12 Collaborative Leadership and Adaptive Strategies
26:14 Embracing Tension and Cognitive Dissonance
29:29 Inviting People into the Messiness
33:59 Speed Round: Fun and Lighthearted Questions
37:19 Final Thoughts and Prayer

Find Duane:
X: @DuaneAnders
Website: cathedraloftherockies.org 

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question: “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox, Season 2, Episode 2 with Duane Anders

Adaptive Leadership and Evolving Church with Dr. Emanuel Cleaver III

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups sit down with Dr. Emanuel Cleaver III, the senior pastor of St. James United Methodist Church in Kansas City. Dr. Cleaver discusses the challenges and strategies of adaptive leadership in the modern socio-political landscape, the decline in church attendance, and the importance of evolving worship practices. He emphasizes the need for evaluating and changing traditional practices, including Sunday school, to meet current needs. Dr. Cleaver also touches on the role of the church in social activism and community involvement, particularly in addressing local injustices. He shares his personal practices for maintaining peace and balance, including a strict observance of the Sabbath and participation in a supportive pastoral group. The episode concludes with a light-hearted lightning round and a prayer for continued guidance and support for Dr. Cleaver's mission.

00:00 Introduction to the Sandbox Podcast
00:40 Meet Dr. Emanuel Cleaver III
01:26 Challenges of Modern Church Leadership
03:30 Adapting Church Practices for the Future
06:05 The Role of Sunday School in Modern Times
10:00 Evolving Church Models and Community Engagement
13:50 Hybrid Worship and Online Community
17:41 Social Activism and Community Needs
20:53 Future Challenges and Adaptive Leadership
24:15 Police Department Control in Kansas City
26:34 Reflecting on Historical Practices
27:11 Reimagining Church Leadership
28:09 Unlearning Traditional Christianity
29:42 The Role of Belief and Action in Faith
33:45 Maintaining Peace and Support as a Pastor
35:39 The Importance of Sabbath
39:00 Fun and Lighthearted Questions
43:39 Closing Thoughts and Prayer

Find Dr. Emanuel Cleaver:
Website: https://www.ecleaver3.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PastorECIII
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cleaveriii/
X: https://x.com/drec3

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox, Season 2:Episode 3 with Emanuel Cleaver

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox where Creativity and Utility Meet,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups engage in a deep, insightful conversation with Reverend Lisa Yebuah, the dynamic lead pastor of the Southeast Raleigh Table. They explore topics ranging from adaptive leadership during the pandemic, collective discernment, and the significance of unlearning hierarchical church models. Reverend Lisa shares her experiences and insights on trusting one's instincts, the importance of listening to the still small voice of God, and how focusing on black church traditions enriches their predominantly white congregation. She delves into the challenges and rewards of leading a faith community that is deeply collaborative and body-centric. Reverend Lisa also talks about the necessity of addressing ideologies within the church, rather than just differing opinions, and the importance of creating new ways of showing up in ministry. The episode concludes with thoughtful reflections on the need for grace, flexibility, and the continuous unlearning and relearning required in contemporary pastoral leadership.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:38 Lisa Yebuah's Journey and Adaptive Leadership
05:22 Collective Discernment and Community Dynamics
09:23 Embracing Humanity and Overcoming Constructs
15:16 Navigating Leadership and Community Challenges
23:13 The Role of Trust and Authority in Ministry
27:21 Guiding Principles and Community Engagement
30:37 The Role of a Pastor: Inviting vs. Instructing
32:59 The Power of Collective Faith
36:33 Navigating Leadership and Ideologies
39:53 Challenges and Masks of Tomorrow's Church
49:51 Hot Seat Questions: Fun and Personal Insights
54:59 Final Thoughts and Blessings

Find Lisa:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/petite_pastor/
Website: https://seraleightable.org/southeast-raleigh-table-home/about-us/

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox, Season 2:Episode 4 with Lisa Yebuah

Adaptive Leadership and Fresh Expressions: A Conversation with Dan Jackson

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox where Creativity and Utility Meet,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups interview His Holiness, Dan Jackson. The discussion covers Dan Jackson's extensive leadership experience, particularly in the Florida Annual Conference where he served as the district superintendent and was instrumental in developing hundreds of fresh expressions. They delve into adaptive leadership, the importance of evaluating and evolving church programs, and innovative funding strategies for new church starts. Dan also shares personal anecdotes from his career, his transition to retirement, and his involvement in leadership development. The episode concludes with a fun lightning round and a prayer.

00:00 Welcome to In the Sandbox
00:42 Introducing Dan Jackson
01:10 Dan's Journey and Leadership
02:23 Adapting to Change
02:49 Challenges During COVID-19
04:37 Fresh Expressions in Florida
07:22 Evaluating Church Programs
14:25 New Church Development Strategies
20:15 Introduction to mLab and Women Pastors
21:19 Restructuring Church Financing in Florida
23:00 Challenges and Successes in Church Funding
24:24 Adaptive Leadership and Fresh Expressions
26:53 The Impact of Dinner Churches
29:10 Collaboration and Innovation in Ministry
30:19 Retirement and Personal Reflections
33:21 Lightning Round: Fun and Personal Questions
36:33 Conclusion and Contact Information

Find Rev. Dan Jackson:
Website: revdanjackson@icloud.com

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox Season 2:Episode 5 with Rev. Dan Jackson

Adaptive Leadership and Spiritual Resilience with Bishop Hee-Soo Jung

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox where Creativity and Utility Meet,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups sit down with Bishop Hee-Soo Jung, Episcopal leader of the West and East Ohio Conferences of the United Methodist Church. They discuss adaptive leadership amidst challenges, the significance of faith and resilience, and Bishop Jung's journey from South Korea to leading in Ohio. Bishop Jung shares personal anecdotes about his spiritual practices, community engagement, and vision for the church. The episode also delves into his love for nature, classical music, and his treasured walks on the Camino de Santiago. Listeners will gain insights on embracing change, maintaining joy, and finding clarity through faith.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast
00:47 Meet Bishop Hee-Soo Jung
01:59 Embracing Adaptive Leadership
04:46 The Role of the Holy Spirit
06:57 Facing Challenges with Faith
11:13 Merging Ohio Conferences
17:58 Spiritual Practices for Leadership
24:20 Personal Connection and Presence
25:30 Navigating Leadership and Vulnerability
26:04 Embracing Community Wisdom
26:44 Clarity Over Certainty in Faith
29:23 The Call to Ministry
30:39 Rejecting Violence and Dominance
32:50 Cultural Reflections and Anti-Racism
34:13 Fun and Personal Questions
34:39 Cherished Childhood Memories
37:31 Musical Preferences and Travel
41:37 Heart Over Head in Decision Making
43:41 Final Thoughts and Prayer

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox Season 2 : Episode 6 with Bishop Jung

Navigating Theological Education and Inclusive Leadership with Rev. April Casperson

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups welcome Reverend April Casperson, an ordained deacon in the West Ohio Conference of the United Methodist Church and Director of Enrollment Management at the Methodist Theological School in Ohio (MTSO). They discuss the evolving landscape of theological education, particularly the shift to high-flex and online models in response to the pandemic, and the importance of accessibility and inclusive leadership. April shares insights on the challenges faced by seminary students, the role of technology, and her passion for fostering diverse and future-ready faith leaders. The episode also touches on the intersection of ecology and theology at MTSO, and the significance of creating supportive environments for students of all ages and backgrounds. The conversation concludes with a fun rapid-fire round and a prayer for April's continued success and impact.

00:00 Welcome to In the Sandbox
00:46 Introducing Reverend April Casperson
01:43 The Evolution of Theological Education
02:47 High Flex Learning at MTSO
04:24 Challenges and Opportunities in Online Education
10:14 Commitment to Ecological Sustainability
13:24 Balancing Accessibility and Academic Rigor
22:56 Supporting Diverse Leaders in the Church
25:04 The Role of Deacons in Modern Ministry
28:07 Discussing Seminary Choices
28:31 Questions for Prospective Students
30:22 Encouraging Older Students
34:07 Challenges in Ministry
37:23 Aha Moments at MTSO
39:59 Rapid Fire Questions
44:42 Conclusion and Farewell

Find April:
Website: https://www.abingdonpress.com/authors/april_casperson/

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox Season 2 Episode 7 with April Casperson

Summary
In this episode of 'In the Sandbox', hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups engage with pastor and author Mark Feldmeir, exploring themes of leadership, faith, and community in a rapidly changing world. Mark discusses his unique leadership approach in a diverse congregation, the impact of the pandemic on church dynamics, and the importance of clarity in values. He shares insights on progressive theological conversations, the role of prayer, and the challenges of leading a large church. The conversation also touches on personal growth practices and innovative outreach initiatives, culminating in lighthearted questions that reveal Mark's personality and passions.


Takeaways
- Mark Feldmeir emphasizes the importance of clarity in leadership.
- Navigating diverse congregational beliefs requires vulnerability and openness.
- Post-pandemic, congregations have experienced natural sorting based on values.
- Engaging in progressive conversations can attract like-minded individuals.
- Rethinking traditional theological constructs can lead to deeper understanding.
- Prayer can be redefined in a relational context with God.
- Proactive leadership is more effective than reactive responses to issues.
- Core values of a church should guide its community practices.
- Innovative outreach can strengthen community ties and engagement.
- Personal growth practices are essential for effective leadership.

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to the Conversation
01:03 - Exploring Leadership in a Diverse Context
04:30 - Navigating Change Post-Pandemic
07:51 - Engaging in Progressive Conversations
10:17 - Rethinking Prayer and Theological Constructs
13:11 - Leadership in a Large Church
16:53 - Proactive vs. Reactive Leadership
19:20 - Core Values and Community Practices
22:45 - Innovative Outreach and Community Engagement
23:15 - Learning from Mistakes in Leadership
28:07 - Personal Practices for Growth
31:30 - Looking Ahead: Future Initiatives
34:29 - Fun and Lighthearted Questions
39:35 - Closing Thoughts and Prayer

Find [GUEST]:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/markfeldmeir/
Website: https://www.markfeldmeir.com/

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox Season 2, Episode 8 with Mark Feldmeir

Adaptive Leadership and Authentic Ministry with Rev. Dr. James Howell

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups welcome Rev. Dr. James Howell, senior pastor of Myers Park United Methodist Church, to discuss leadership, wisdom, and his experiences. Dr. Howell shares insights from his ministry journey, touching on the challenges of adaptive leadership, the importance of authenticity, and building trust within a community. They explore themes of awe, travel, and the enduring practices of Christian faith. Rev. Howell highlights his latest book 'Everywhere is Jerusalem' and reflects on his perspective towards ministerial mistakes, adaptive leadership, and the power of love and vulnerability in ministry.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:44 Leadership in the Trenches
03:16 Building Trust and Personal Capital
10:51 Navigating Criticism and Mistakes
14:16 The Importance of Friendship in Ministry
20:09 Balancing Tradition and Innovation
25:13 Daily Practices for Effective Leadership
26:23 The Importance of Discipline
26:59 The Role of Reading in Clergy
27:13 Theological Reflections on Leadership
29:37 Travel and Its Impact
35:13 Experiencing Awe and Wonder
40:33 Rapid Fire Questions
47:51 Final Thoughts and Farewell

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox Season 2, Episode 9 with James Howell

In the Sandbox with Reverend Adam Hamilton: Adaptive Leadership and Evolving Ministry

In this episode of 'In the Sandbox where Creativity and Utility Meet,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups have an inspiring conversation with Reverend Adam Hamilton, the founding pastor of Church of the Resurrection in Leewood, Kansas. Adam, a best-selling author and influential leader in modern United Methodism, discusses the nuances and challenges of adaptive leadership, the importance of embracing change, and reflecting on the wisdom gained through his years in ministry. The discussion touches on the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, the challenge of balancing care with personal limits, and his hopes for the future of church leadership. Adam also reflects on maintaining authentic connections with his congregation, even amid criticism, and emphasizes the significance of humility and adaptability in effective leadership. The episode concludes with a 'hot seat' segment where Adam answers rapid-fire questions about his life outside ministry, providing a personal touch to an insightful conversation.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:22 Understanding Adaptive Leadership
03:57 Personal Growth and Leadership Wisdom
07:20 Navigating Change and Challenges
11:41 Caring for the Congregation
19:56 Handling Difficult Decisions
30:21 Handling Criticism as a Leader
30:59 Historical Examples of Leadership Challenges
32:20 Personal Experiences with Criticism
34:59 Dealing with Disappointment and Guilt
38:42 Adapting to New Realities in Ministry
45:05 The Role of Technology in Modern Ministry
47:06 Fun and Personal Insights
53:19 Closing Thoughts and Resources

Find Reverend Adam Hamilton:
IG: @revadamhamilton
X: @RevAdamHamilton
Website: https://resurrection.church/staff/

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org

In the Sandbox Season 2, Episode 10 Adam Hamilton

Navigating Adaptive Leadership and Spiritual Resilience with Bishop Delores Williamston

In this engaging episode of 'In the Sandbox,' hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups welcome Bishop Delores Williamston, the Bishop of the Louisiana Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. Bishop Williamston shares her journey as a military veteran, a clergy leader, and a grandmother, discussing her adaptive leadership style and the challenges faced by the church during turbulent times. She emphasizes the importance of balancing tradition with innovation, finding joy despite adversity, and the role of the Holy Spirit in ministry. The conversation is enriched by Bishop Williamston's reflections on her African American church upbringing and her methods of maintaining personal resilience, including Sabbath rest and hobbies. Together, they explore what it means to lead with faith, adapt to changing contexts, and inspire community engagement. The episode concludes with practical advice for clergy and laity on sustaining joy and optimism in their ministries.

00:00 Welcome to In the Sandbox
00:41 Introducing Bishop Delores Williamston
02:32 Leadership and Adaptive Ministry
03:52 Challenges and Generational Gaps in Ministry
06:22 Take Up Your Mat and Walk
10:41 Finding Rest and Sabbath
14:06 Dealing with Adversity
18:39 Joy and Optimism in Ministry
23:46 Humor and Improvisation in Ministry
26:00 Authenticity in Faith and Improvisation
26:49 The Role of the Holy Spirit in the United Methodist Church
27:22 Formation in the Black Church
28:09 The Power of Songs in the Black Church
29:30 Personal Journey and the Influence of the Black Church
35:40 Awakenings in the Church
39:22 Community Engagement and Music Education
44:21 Rapid-Fire Questions with Bishop Williamston
49:41 Closing Remarks and Prayer

Find Bishop Williamston:
Website: https://www.la-umc.org/about-our-bishop

About Hub4Innovation:
The Hub4Innovation is a place where leaders are given permission to experiment, innovate, and take bold steps towards the future of the church. We encourage leaders to break through barriers, make risky moves, and play with the question, “What if?”

Join Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups, thought leaders and spiritual movers, on the “In the Sandbox” podcast, where they are interviewing leaders of the faith, and exploring bold and innovative new ways to lead and make big impact on our communities.

Find us on:
Instagram: @hub4innovation
Website: hub4innovation.org
Soundcloud: Soundcloud.com/hub4innovation

In the sandbox Special Episode with the Bearded Theologians

Hub4Innovation

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