Spencer Williams started his career as a river guide in Colorado’s Upper Arkansas River Valley. Those experiences on the water led him to law school and to a career as a water rights attorney. He now works for Ponderosa Advisors, advising clients on water rights and water markets across the American West.  Spencer also works with Ponderosa's new software platform Water Sage, an innovative software program that is redefining water research across the West.  
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In this episode, we dig into the details of water in the West—What exactly a what right is, how water rights can be severed from the land, and the history of water as a property right.  We talk about water as an investment, and how big money is currently rushing into the West’s water markets.  We discuss his work at Ponderosa and Water Sage, and we also tell some stories from his days as a river guide.  It was a fun and informative conservation about an important topic.  I hope you enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/spencer-williams/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:30 - How Spencer describes his work
7:00 - Water Rights 101
9:00 - History of water in Colorado
10:10 - Water as a property right
12:00 - Ability to severe water from the land
16:15 - Wells versus water rights
18:33 - “First in time, first in right” explained
21:50 - Ranch buyer “rules of thumb” for evaluating water rights
25:30 - Non-use and water rights abandonment explained
28:55 - Water rights as an investment
35:30 - Spencer’s experience as a river guide
37:00 - Describing Colorado's Upper Arkansas River Valley
40:00 - Arkansas River flow management explained
42:45 - More river guiding stories
45:00 - Water Sage explained and discussed
54:00 - Future plans for Water Sage
55:35 - Spencer’s thoughts on the future of water in the West
57:35 - Favorite books
59:17 - Favorite documentaries
59:45 - Favorite location in the West
1:00:15 - Recommended location and activities
1:01:40 - Biggest challenge facing Colorado
1:03:05 - Spencer’s request of the listeners
1:05:00 - Spencer’s contact info
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This episode is sponsored by Mountain Khakis. Rugged. Authentic. Reliable. Timeless. What started as a casual conversation at the Shady Lady Saloon in Jackson Hole, WY has become a top-performing mountain-inspired lifestyle apparel brand. Established in 2003, Mountain Khakis quickly became a staple in the wardrobe of everyone from ranch hands to golf pros, those who travel by jet, as well as those who travel by thumb. The Mountain Khakis brand story continues to resonate as it connects to the enthusiast who believes that freedom and rugged adventure is a way of life. Join the conversation at www.mountainkhakis.com
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Spencer Williams - From River Guide to Water Innovator

Connie Sciolino is the owner and head coach at The Alpine Training Center in Boulder, Colorado.  The ATC is a no-frills gym on the outskirts of town that helps outdoor athletes become better skiers, climbers, runners, and bikers through strength training.  Connie trains everyone from professional athletes to weekend warriors, including one of the climbers in the hit mountaineering documentary, Meru.
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The workouts are grueling, both physically and mentally.  But her clients' results speak for themselves—committed athletes leave the gym stronger, tougher, more resistant to injury, and better equipped to tackle the challenges of the high mountains.  Thanks to her diverse collection of educational, professional, athletic, and outdoor experiences, Connie is setting a new standard for training for mountain-focused sports.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/connie-sciolino/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
6:25 - Connie explains her work
7:00 - History of the Alpine Training Center
9:55 - How is ATC different than Crossfit
11:25 - “Special” ATC exercises (i.e. "sandbag getups” and “Curtis Ps")
14:15 - Connie’s athletic, educational, and professional background
18:15 - Early days of experimenting with ski-focused weight training
23:10 - Connie’s athletic experiences in Jackson Hole and the West
26:00 - How Connie built ATC’s unique culture
30:20 - How Connie builds programs for such a wide range of abilities
33:15 - How Connie trains mental toughness
36:55 - The coaching team at ATC
49:25 - Gym Jones
53:00 - Meru and training Renan Ozturk
1:02:30 - Advice for ATC-like training if you don’t live in Boulder
1:05:40 - Connie’s 1-hour body weight challenge: As many push-ups, air squats, and sit-ups. Equal reps across.  (Ed’s note: You may want to start with 100-100-100.  You will be destroyed.)
1:08:20 - One of Connie’s favorite success stories
1:12:50 - Favorite books
1:15:15 - Connie’s favorite place in the West
1:18:30 - Connie’s request of listeners
1:21:50 - Find the ATC online
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This episode is sponsored by Mountain Khakis.  Rugged. Authentic. Reliable. Timeless.  What started as a casual conversation at the Shady Lady Saloon in Jackson Hole, WY has become a top-performing mountain-inspired lifestyle apparel brand.  Established in 2003, Mountain Khakis quickly became a staple in the wardrobe of everyone from ranch hands to golf pros, those who travel by jet, as well as those who travel by thumb.  The Mountain Khakis brand story continues to resonate as it connects to the enthusiast who believes that freedom and rugged adventure is a way of life.  Join the conversation at MountainKhakis.com

Connie Sciolino - Building Stronger & Tougher Outdoor Athletes

Lloyd Athearn is the Executive Director of the Colorado Fourteeners Initiative (CFI), a non-profit organization whose mission is to protect and preserve the natural integrity of Colorado’s 14,000-foot peaks through active stewardship and public education.  CFI's work includes building and maintaining trails, educating hikers and climbers on best practices in the high country, conserving the native alpine tundra ecosystem, and generally helping to ensure that these popular mountains are not inadvertently "loved to death" through overuse.
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Much of Lloyd's career has centered around mountains, so we had a fun and wide-ranging conversation with topics including 14ers, climbing adventures, ecology, books, advice to first-time hikers, and plenty more.  Lloyd is a super interesting guy who's doing very important work, so I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/lloyd-athearn/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
2:50 - How Lloyd describes his work
3:45 - What is a 14er?
4:30 - Officially, how many 14ers are there?
7:50 - Why do 14ers need protecting?
11:55 - How CFI prioritizes 14er projects
14:30 - CFI’s trail inventory project
20:50 - How many people climb 14ers annually?
24:00 - How is CFI funded?
26:40 - Youth crews
28:30 - How private land can impact access to 14ers
33:00 - Specific 14er success stories
35:20 - Explaining the class rating system
36:45 - CFI’s April Fools jokes
38:20 - Lloyd’s personal background and early outdoor experiences
40:30 - Lloyd’s career path
43:40 - Lloyd’s advice to young people who are interested in a career centered around the outdoors
47:50 - Advice for a first-time 14er hike
52:20 - Lloyd’s scary Ecuador lightening experience
54:10 - Lloyd’s favorite 14er
55:15 - One of Lloyd’s (and Ed’s!) favorite books
57:45 - Favorite documentary
58:55 - Favorite non-14er outdoor activities
1:00:15 - Craziest thing that’s ever happened to Lloyd in the outdoors
1:02:50 - Favorite place(s) in the West
1:04:00 - Biggest challenge and opportunity facing Colorado in the future
1:06:10 - Lloyd’s request of listeners
1:07:45 - How to connect with CFI
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This episode is brought to you by Mountain Khakis. Rugged. Authentic. Reliable. Timeless. What started as a casual conversation at the Shady Lady Saloon in Jackson Hole, WY has become a top-performing mountain-inspired lifestyle apparel brand. Established in 2003, Mountain Khakis quickly became a staple in the wardrobe of everyone from ranch hands to golf pros, those who travel by jet, as well as those who travel by thumb. The Mountain Khakis brand story continues to resonate as it connects to the enthusiast who believes that freedom and rugged adventure is a way of life. Join the conversation at www.mountainkhakis.com

Lloyd Athearn - Protecting and Preserving Colorado's Highest Peaks

Brady Robinson is the Executive Director of the Access Fund, a conservation and advocacy organization that helps to protect climbing areas throughout the United States.  Despite being a relatively small non-profit, the Access Fund’s work has a broad ripple effect far beyond the climbing community and extends into areas of conservation, public lands policy, and general outdoor recreation, just to name a few.  Under Brady’s leadership, the Access Fund has been incredibly effective, and as climbing becomes more popular, the Access Fund's work will only become more important.
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Brady also has a seriously impressive outdoor resume—he was an instructor for both Outward Bound and the National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS) and has done a number of large-scale expeditions throughout the Himalayas.  He still finds time to push himself hard in climbing, mountain biking, and other adventures, while simultaneously leading the Access Fund and being a fully committed family man.
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We had a fun conversation that covered a wide range of topics.  We dig into the details of the Access Fund’s mission and methods, including why non-climbers should care about its work.  We talk about Brady’s diverse career experience, and he tells a few crazy stories from his big-mountain expeditions with climbing partners such as Jimmy Chin and Conrad Anker.  Brady also offers advice to young people who would like to pursue a career centered around the outdoors, conservation, or advocacy.
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Even if you’re not a climber, you’ll gain some solid insights from this interview, so I hope you enjoy.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/brady-robinson/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:10 - How Brady describes his work
5:00 - Specific methods that the Access Fund uses to protect climbing areas (public policy & acquisitions)
10:30 - How does the Access Fund prioritizes projects
10:45 – Correction from Brady: The Homestead is between Phoenix and Tucson, not Phoenix and Flagstaff
13:15 - Access Fund’s nationwide partnerships
13:55 - Access Fund’s stewardship team
16:30 - Access Fund’s support for landowners and education initiatives
18:40 - Foundation of the Outdoor Alliance
21:20 - Why should non-climbers care about the Access Fund’s work?
26:00 - Early outdoor experiences
27:30 - First climbing experiences
31:44 - Brady and Jimmy Chin learn photography
33:50 - Brady’s near miss with a massive avalanche in Pakistan (see photos above)
41:10 - The closest Brady ever came to dying in the mountains
45:00 - Lessons learned from a life of adventure
46:15 - Memories of the late great Alex Lowe
47:45 - Brady’s decision to pursue a career in education/advocacy/conservation instead of full-time climbing
52:00 - Reflections on finding your passion
57:00 - Advice to young people -  a career in the recreation/conservation
1:07:50 - The Access Fund’s biggest threat and opportunity in the next five years
1:11:15 - Favorite books
1:16:30 - Favorite documentary
1:18:30 - Favorite locations in the West and the world
1:21:00 - Brady’s request of the listeners
1:25:55 - Connect with the Access Fund
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This episode is brought to you by Mountain Khakis. Rugged. Authentic. Reliable. Timeless. What started as a casual conversation at the Shady Lady Saloon in Jackson Hole, WY has become a top-performing mountain-inspired lifestyle apparel brand. Established in 2003, Mountain Khakis quickly became a staple in the wardrobe of everyone from ranch hands to golf pros, those who travel by jet, as well as those who travel by thumb. The Mountain Khakis brand story continues to resonate as it connects to the enthusiast who believes that freedom and rugged adventure is a way of life. Join the conversation at www.mountainkhakis.com

Brady Robinson - Climber, Educator, Outdoor Advocate

Jim Howell is the CEO of Grasslands LLC, which is the land management arm of the Savory Institute, an organization that Jim co-founded.  Both Grasslands and Savory focus on conserving and restoring the world’s grasslands through what they call “Holistic Management.” We discuss the details of Holistic Managment in the interview, but the basic idea is that the world’s grasses evolved to be grazed, and they need to be grazed in a natural manner to be healthy and resilient.
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Jim and his team use livestock to mimic natural grazing patterns from hundreds of thousands of years ago, long before the world’s grasslands were covered with people, fences, houses, and cities.  Savory and Grasslands’ results speak for themselves—after just a few years of holistic managment, their ranches are measurably healthier, more productive, more biodiverse, and more financially successful.
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Even if you have absolutely no interest in grazing or ranches, you still need to listen to this interview, because the work Jim and his team are doing has a positive effect on land, people, plants, animals, and communities all around the world.  Anyone who considers themselves to be conservation-minded and loves the outdoors needs to understand Jim’s work. I have no doubt that you’ll gain a new appreciation for the role that livestock needs to play in conserving grasslands around the world.  Even if you’re a vegan living in New York City, you’ll gain some valuable insights from Jim’s point of view.
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Jim is also an experienced world traveler, an avid reader, and an author, having written one of the best books I’ve read on land and conservation in the West and beyond: For the Love of Land: Global Case Studies of Grazing in Nature’s Image.  And on top of all of that, he finds the time to run ultra-marathons and has completed some of the most challenging 50-mile trail races in Colorado.
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Between Jim’s professional and personal interests, we had a lot to discuss.  It was a fun conversation filled with valuable information, so I hope you enjoy.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/jim-howell/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:05 – How Jim describes his work
5:45 – How Grasslands’ Holistic Management differs from other ranch management practices
8:00 – Why are grasslands important?
11:00 – The natural history of grass
14:30 – Importance of grazing animals’ grazing behavior
17:30 – History of grass and animal relationships in the U.S.
18:40 – How modern commercial grazing differs from natural grazing patterns
22:00 – Comparing the health of grazed land versus National Park land where grazing is prohibited
26:15 – How grazing leads to more healthy soil and grasslands
27:50 – Common mistakes that conservationists make when evaluating grassland health
29:15 – Methods and results of measuring grassland health
31:15 – Specific methods for holistic grazing
35:30 – Length of time to truly understand a ranch’s grazing potential and needs
37:00 – Challenges related to the human component of ranching
40:30 – What are common objections to holistic grazing?
41:40 – The intellectual challenges of holistic grazing
43:50 – The economic benefits of holistic grazing with specific examples
48:20 – Jim’s unconventional path to ranching
52:20 – Jim discovers Savory’s work
55:15 – Jim’s travels and work on ranches around the world
57:40 – Lessons learned from traveling and working abroad
1:00:10 – How Jim started running ultra-marathons
1:02:50 – How humans evolved to run long distances
1:04:55 – Advice for people who want to run ultras
1:09:15 – Jim’s favorite books
1:12:50 – Favorite documentary
1:13:45 – Jim’s favorite place in the West
1:14:55 – Jim’s request of the listeners
1:17:30 – Grasslands and Savory contact information

Jim Howell - Conserving and Restoring the World's Grasslands

Joe Grant is a highly accomplished professional ultra-runner and all-around endurance athlete who has completed some of the endurace world’s most challenging events—several Hardrock 100s, UTMB 100, Western States 100, and Bighorn 100, as well as the Arizona Trail Race (750 miles on mountain bike), Iditarod Trail Invitational 350, and many, many more. He most recently completed the “Tour de 14ers,” a solo, self-supported and self-powered link-up of all of Colorado's 14,000-foot mountains, by bicycle and on foot.  For those of you counting, that’s climbing 57 fourteeners, accessed all by bike, in 31 days.
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But Joe’s career as a professional athlete makes up only a small portion of his personal identity. He is a talented writer and photographer, as well as a voracious reader. He was born in England and grew up in France, so he has a global perspective that gives him a unique point of view. He is obviously driven to pursue challenging goals, yet he has always been focused more on the process than the end result. Joe's athletic achievements seem to combine his desire for continued personal growth with a genuine love of wild places and a strong conservation ethic.
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Because he has such a depth of knowledge on so many interesting subjects, talking with Joe solely about running would only begin to scratch the surface. So after a rundown of his recent 14er adventure, we went deep into his thoughts on adventure, endurance, and pushing one’s personal boundaries. He talked about his upbringing and how family and friends have helped shape his outlook on life, giving him the confidence to pursue an unconvential, yet extremely fulfilling lifestyle. We of course talked a lot about books, as well as goal setting, daily practices, and his thoughts on conservation.
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I’m obviously biased, but I loved this conversation and really appreciate Joe taking the time to chat. I encourage you to check him out on social media, and read some of his columns. If you like people who are passionate, humble, deep-thinking, and all-around interesting, you’ll enjoy getting to know Joe. Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/joe-grant/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:00 - How Joe describes his work
5:00 - Tour de 14ers
7:30 - Thoughts on choosing to travel by bike
8:20 - Self supported bike-packing ethic explained
10:00 - High points of the trip
11:08 - Thoughts on expedition preparation
12:45 - First days of the Tour de 14ers
15:45 - Various challenges during the trip
17:33 - Low point of the trip
20:30 - Techniques for digging out of fatigue-enduced “dark places"
21:25 - Arizona Trail Race
22:45 - More on pushing through fatigue
24:25 - Parallels between mediation and endurance sports
26:41 - Benefits of observing your mind and body from an outside perspective
28:25 - Personal growth through endurance sports
30:20 - Goal oriented versus process/moment oriented
32:40 - Comfort versus happiness
36:30 - Joe’s early years in Europe
37:15 - How living internationally shaped Joe’s perspective
39:10 - Benefits of gap year travel
43:10 - Lessons learned from international living
44:10 - Story behind Joe’s mother running a 100-miler
46:40 - Mentors and role models
48:40 - Joe’s reading recommendations
52:15 - Joe’s definition of conservation
55:00 - Favorite books about the American West
56:55 - A personal interest that would surprise listeners
57:37 - Craziest outdoor experience
59:50 - Joe’s favorite piece of gear
1:01:10 - Favorite spot(s) in the American West
1:02:00 - Biggest challenge facing the American West
1:03:45 - Joe’s request of listeners
1:04:40 - Connect with Joe online

Mountain & Prairie Podcast

Joe Grant - Self-Powered Alpine Adventurer

Camrin Dengel is a professional lifestyle photographer who lives and works on the quiet side of the Teton Mountain Range in Teton Valley, Idaho. Her work focuses on a broad range of subjects, with an emphasis on sustainable agriculture, hunting, fishing, and life in and around her mountain community. In her work and leisure, Camrin is a devoted proponent of slow living, and she strives to approach her profession and life in a manner that is intentional, simple, meaningful, and positive.
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Growing up in Valdez, Alaska gave Camrin a unique perspective and toughness (she calls it “stubbornness”) that have allowed her to pursue her passion for art full time, while staying true to her ideals and enjoying a slow-living lifestyle. She attended college on a running scholarship with the intention of becoming an engineer, but decided midway through that art and photography were her true calling. After graduation, she moved straight to Teton Valley where she has built a life and business centered around documenting the people and places that make the American West such a special place to live.
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I’ve spent a lot of time in Teton Valley and can honestly say that Camrin’s work captures the landscapes and lifestyle more authentically than any artist I’ve ever seen. She is obviously a talented photographer, but she is also a super-interesting person who has managed to sidestep a good deal of the “busyness” and distractions that dominate many of our lives. In our conversation, we discuss her career trajectory, and also her love for the community of Teton Valley. We dig deep into the idea of slow living, and she offers some thoughts on ways for people to adopt a slower, more intentional lifestyle. As usual, we discuss favorite books, documentaries, and challenges and opportunities facing the American West.
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This is a really fun episode full of lots of great info. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Hope you enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/camrin-dengel/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
2:30 - How Camrin describes her work
3:50 - Good example of Camrin’s work
5:30 - Teton Valley explained
7:25 - How she ended up in Teton Valley
8:30 - Transition from adventure photography to lifestyle
9:50 - Thoughts on slow living
10:45 - Ways to live slowly as effortlessly as possible
13:25 - Being intentional with social media
14:20 - Advice for adopting a slower lifestyle
15:30 - Growing up in Alaska
16:35 - Unique aspects of growing up in Alaska
18:50 - How Alaska shaped Camrin’s perspective
20:05 - College years in California
21:15 - From engineer student to artist
23:15 - Time with the Alaska Marine Conservation Council
24:35 - Similarities between fisherman, ranchers, and farmers
27:10 - Camrin’s definition of conservation
28:00 - Thoughts on fishing and hunting
31:45 - How Camrin developed the confidence to follow her passion
33:15 - Role models and mentors
35:10 - Other possible career paths
36:45 - Advice to aspiring photographers
39:00 - Photography advice
40:30 - Book recomendations
41:20 - Slow living resources
42:45 - Favorite documentaries
44:20 - Surprising activities
48:00 - Favorite place
49:20 - Ideas for off the beaten path experiences in Alaska
51:00 - The insanity of the Mt. Marathon
55:15 - Biggest challenge facing the American West
57:30 - Request of the listeners
58:50 - Connect with Camrin online

Camrin Dengel – Slow Living in the American West

Taylor Keen is a teacher, community builder, and Native American thought leader based out of Omaha, Nebraska.  His back story is as diverse as it is impressive—he’s a member of both the Omaha Tribe and the Cherokee Nation, attended Dartmouth College (BA) and Harvard University (Masters of Public Policy, MBA), and enjoyed a successful stint in corporate America before returning to Nebraska to teach entrepreneurship and management at Creighton University.  His most recent undertaking is Sacred Seed, a project with the goal of preserving Native American heritage and history through collecting, growing, and spreading the seeds of corn and other traditional Native American foods.
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The writer Wallace Stegner theorized that people generally fit into one of two categories—“Boomers” or “Stickers.” Boomers are “those who pillage and run” and want “to make a killing and end up on Easy Street.” Stickers are just the opposite—they are “motivated by affection, by such a love for place and its life that they want to preserve it and remain in it.”  Taylor is the walking embodiment of a Sticker.  Given his drive, intelligence, and education, he could’ve followed the path of the Boomer and pursued any number of careers.  But a deep love of his Native American heritage and his community called him back home to teach, lead, and live a life devoted to service of others.  It’s an inspiring story.
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I could’ve talked to Taylor for hours and I only asked about a third of the questions I had prepared, but we still managed to dig into a wide variety of fascinating topics.  We discussed the history and mission of Sacred Seed and where he sees the project going in the future.  We talked about his path from the West to the Ivy League, the decisions that led him to transition from corporate America to higher education, and some very interesting Native American history.  One of my favorite parts of our conversation was Taylor’s recounting the advice he received from his grandfather soon after graduating from Harvard Business School.
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This was a very enlightening conversation for me, and I greatly appreciate Taylor taking the time to chat.  I encourage you to visit the Sacred Seed website and watch the video—you can find links to everything we discuss in the episode notes on the webpage.  Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/taylor-keen/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED
2:55 - How Taylor describes his work
4:00 - Sacred Seed Project
5:35 - Early beginnings of Sacred Seed
9:00 - Discovering the importance of seed banking
10:00 - Threats to native seeds from large corporations
11:45 - Difference between Omahas and Cherokees
13:50 - How Taylor found his first ancient seeds
15:55 - How the plants compliment each other, Four Sisters
20:45 - How Sacred Seed has changed Taylor
22:40 - The link between elders and the ancient ways of planting
25:30 - Fall festival
26:45 - Future plans for Sacred Seed
29:20 - Taylor’s changing approach to the project—MBA to Holistic thinking
33:45 - Similarities between Sacred Seed and the reintroduction of bison
36:45 - The fight for sustainable agriculture
37:10 - Meaning of Omaha
38:10 - Where Taylor grew up
39:00 - Taylor’s journey to the Ivy League
41:15 - Biggest surprise when moving east
43:55 - Harvard graduate school and corporate America
45:35 - Taylor’s grandfather’s wise advice
49:25 - Discussing Sebastian Junger’s Tribe
51:00 - Taylor’s thoughts on the importance of tribes
53:50 - Best books for learning about Native American culture
56:45 - Taylor’s advice to his younger self
58:00 - Other favorite books
1:02:50 - Taylor’s request of the audience
1:06:00 - Connect with Taylor online

Taylor Keen - Tribal Truth Seeker

Connor Coleman is the founder of Resiliency Lands, a progressive, conservation-minded land management and advisory group committed to promoting ecological and resource resiliency. Prior to starting Resiliency Lands, he held a variety of positions closely connected to the land, jobs that would be on the wish-list of anyone who loves adventure and the American West—wildland firefighter, cowboy, bison manager, and conservationist, just to name a few.  Connor is currently based in Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley, and he resides on a spectacular ranch just outside of Carbondale.
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You may be surprised to learn that Connor was not born and raised in the West or on ranches.  On the contrary, he grew up in Ohio, went to college in North Carolina, and after paying his dues in east coast conservation and earning two master’s degrees from Duke, he headed West to focus his energy on western landscapes. Thanks to an insatiable curiosity, a rock-solid work ethic, a service mindset, and a willingness to insert himself into new and uncomfortable situations, Connor has carved out a professional niche for himself in Colorado doing rewarding, exciting, and important work.
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Connor’s education and unconventional career path can serve as a great blueprint for anyone who loves the American West and wants a life centered around land, conservation, and natural resources. When I was in my early twenties, I would’ve loved to meet a guy like Connor who could point me in the right direction. So in this episode, we talk in depth about his career and his ability to “put himself out there” to create exciting professional opportunities.  We dig deep into his thoughts on conservation in the West, as well as issues related to forest fires throughout the country.  Connor loves to read and learn, so he also has tons of great book and film recommendations.
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We cover a ridiculous amount of information, so be sure to check out the episode notes for the full list of topics we discuss.  Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/connor-coleman/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED
2:32 - How Connor describes his work
3:55 - Importance of conserving working ranches
7:55 - Grazing as an important part of conservation
13:40 - Examples of some of Resiliency Land’s projects
16:35 - Where did Connor grow up?
18:50 - Connor’s decision to make conservation a career
22:45 - Brief history of NC barbecue
25:00 - Early career in conservation
29:10 - Grad school at Duke
30:30 - Difference between conservation in NC versus CO
32:20 - How easterners misunderstand public lands in the west
33:30 - Time as a wildland firefighter
36:30 - Fire policy in the east versus west
40:00 - Longleaf pine book recommendations
41:15 - Adventures at Camp Lejeune
42:20 - Moving out west to work on ranches
45:40 - Challenges of adjusting to the demands of ranch work
48:30 - Working with bison on the Zapata Ranch
49:50 - Bison and bison book recommendations
55:20 - Transition to the Aspen Valley Land Trust
59:20 - Lesson learned working in conservation in different parts of country
1:01:20 - Thoughts on service and giving back to the community
1:06:15 - Favorite books about the American West
1:10:15 - Favorite films
1:12:50 - Surprising activities
1:14:35 - Craziest experience in the outdoors
1:18:45 - Favorite place in the West
1:20:20 - Biggest challenge facing the West
1:23:00 - Connor’s request of the listeners
1:25:15 - Connect with Connor online
1:25:55 - Bonus book recommendations!

Connor Coleman - How to Build a Meaningful Life in the West

Jeff Lee is the co-founder of the Rocky Mountain Land Library, a residential library located on a historic ranch in one of Colorado's most beautiful and dramatic high country grassland basins. The Buffalo Peaks Ranch, as it is known, will eventually house a collection of over 35,000 books related to natural history, conservation, and the American West. These books will be dispersed throughout ranch in houses and agricultural structures that have been preserved and restored by a growing team of enthusiastic volunteers. The ranch will become a place where individuals can immerse themselves in a natural setting, surrounded by books, for days at a time to read, write, and work on projects related to the West’s unique landscapes.
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The idea for the Land Library came to Jeff and his wife Ann (the library’s other co-founder) when they visited a residential library in Europe during the mid-1990s. Given their deep love of books and land, Jeff and Ann immediately saw the potential for a similar concept in Colorado that centered around the history and landscapes of the American West. More than 20 years and tens of thousands of books later, their vision has become a reality—the Rocky Mountain Land Library is open for business and continuing to grow and evolve.
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For anyone who has listened to this podcast, you know that the Land Library is my dream come true—it combines ranches, conservation, nature, and books—so I was obviously extremely excited to chat with Jeff. In a little over an hour, we covered a ton of interesting information, including the project’s backstory, the history of the ranch, and Jeff and Ann’s long term vision for the Land Library. Of course, we discuss books, and Jeff has many excellent recommendations that were brand new to me. It’s worth noting that the Land Library is in the midst of the a fundraising campaign, so I encourage you to visit their KickStarter page, watch the video, and donate to the cause... I just did, so you definitely should too! Links to everything are in the episode notes.
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If you love the West, love books, and love the land, I can guarantee you will love the Land Library and this episode. Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/jeff-lee/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
2:40 - How Jeff describes his work
3:45 - Backstory on the Land Library
4:40 - Jeff’s introduction to the West
7:00 - Lake Powell, water, and differences between the East and West
7:55 - The early beginnings of Jeff’s book collection
10:55 - The initial idea for the Land Library
13:50 - Challenges of storing tens of thousands of books
17:00 - South Park, Colorado described
19:30 - Early search for a Land Library site
23:45 - Unique experience on a ranch versus pristine wilderness
25:45 - Current state of the Land Library
28:10 - Cook’s House restoration - Kickstarter Campaign
29:40 - History of Buffalo Peaks Ranch
34:10 - How Jeff defines “conservation”
35:30 - Interesting people and groups who have visited and volunteered at the ranch
40:00 - How Jeff and Ann were able to take the Land Library from an idea to reality
42:20 - Jeff’s recommended books about the West
44:45 - Recommended biographies
51:00 - The interconnectedness of historical figures
52:25 - Purchase these books at your LOCAL bookstore!!
53:20 - Books that Jeff has gifted or recommended
57:40 - Jeff’s most powerful outdoor experience
1:00:10 - Favorite location in the West
1:03:30 - Jeff’s request of the listeners
1:04:40 - Connect with the Land Library online

Jeff Lee - Creating a Literary Home on the Range

Mike Reilly is the Veterans Program Coordinator at Heroes and Horses, a Montana-based nonprofit that uses expedition-style horse pack trips through wild landscapes to help veterans overcome the challenges of life after the military. Prior to his work with Heroes and Horses, Mike was a Navy SEAL and served as a member of SEAL Team 1 in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation New Dawn. As he was transitioning out of the military, he heard about Heroes and Horses and signed on as a student. The program offered a perfect blend of service, teaching, helping others, and adventure that spoke to Mike’s strengths and interests; after completing the program, he was hired to stay on a full-time member of the team.
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Heroes and Horses is not a vacation. It’s a rigorous and hardcore three-phase process that takes veterans with no prior horseback experience and, in the course of a summer, turns them into expert horsemen and wilderness travelers. Through the hard work and focus required to make it through the program, veterans are able to forge lasting bonds and discover a renewed sense of purpose—which gives them the skills and confidence to thrive in the civilian life as they begin their post-military lives. Amazingly, this program is offered at no cost to veterans.
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Mike was nice enough to take a break from a morning of training wild mustangs to chat with me about the program and his personal story. We discussed how he initially connected with Heroes and Horses and how it helped him through some of the challenges of post-deployment life. Mike explained the organization's upcoming 500 Miles Project, in which they are training horses from the BLM’s Wild Mustang Program and planning to take them on a 500-mile ride later this summer. He also talks about his military career, and how a collegiate baseball injury was the catalyst that led him to pursue his dream of becoming a SEAL.
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Mike is a humble guy with a deeply ingrained passion for serving and helping others, so I know you’ll enjoy this episode. I encourage you to check out the Heroes and Horses website, visit their GoFundMe page, and consider supporting their important work.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/mike-reilly/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:20 - How Mike describes his work
4:00- Heroes and Horses explained
7:45 - Importance of the bond between the veterans and horses
9:10 - Why H&H so effective compared to “traditional” PTSD therapy
11:15 - The circumstances that led Mike to H&H
13:30 - Why Mike chose H&H over traditional channels of help
15:25 - Mike reaches out to H&H founder and E.D. Micah Fink
16:00 - Personal powerful moment during Mike’s student stint at H&H
18:30 - Mike’s attraction to the military
20:00 - From enlisting to trying out for the SEAL teams
22:40 - Why teaching suits Mike’s personality
24:00 - Personal mentors and heroes
25:00 - Importance of purpose and community
27:55 - Ensuring that H&H lessons stick when the students return to civilian life
31:00 - Success stories from H&H
32:35 - Val from Unbranded
33:55 - The 500 Miles Project
36:30 - The BLM’s Wild Mustang Program
39:35 - Training wild horses
42:25 - How Mike defines the word “conservation”
45:40 - Favorite books
46:55 - Favorite movies
49:10 - Favorite place in the West
50:50 - Mike’s request of the listeners

Mike Reilly - Helping Combat Veterans Rediscover Purpose

John Dunaway is a Texas-based merchant mariner who spends six months each year traveling the world as the captain of large cargo ships. Whether cruising the calm, warm waters of Central America or avoiding Somali pirates off the coast of Africa, John’s goal is the same: deliver the cargo efficiently while ensuring the safety of his crew—quite the responsibility for a 32-year-old. When not at sea, John is an avid bird hunter, surfer, and all-around adventurer who uses his downtime to explore everywhere from Jackson Hole to Canyonlands to Antelope Island with his wife and young daughter. Thanks to a talent for photography and writing, John has gained a huge following on Instagram, where he documents his exploits on his account, AbstractConformity.
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So you might be asking, what does a ship captain have to do with mountains and/or prairies? Although John may spend most of his time on the high seas, far away from the American West, you’ll notice that his optimistic perspective, focused sense of purpose, and thirst for adventure parallel the attitudes and outlooks of many of my previous podcast guests. Also like other guests, he is well read, a deep thinker, and has a genuine conservation ethic thanks to his close connection to the natural world. Although the objects of our affections may be different, our underlying values and priorities are surprisingly similar.
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After almost a year of recording this podcast, I was excited to switch it up a little with this in-depth conversation with John about a subject that was fairly new to me. We start by covering the basics of his job—how one becomes a ship captain, particulars on the size of the ships, and details of day-to-day life on a 90-day ocean voyage. Then we dig deeper into some of his thoughts on leadership, his rituals and superstitions, how fatherhood has changed his outlook, and how he manages the pressure that comes along with being responsible for a massive ship, his crew, and the cargo. He also tells a few crazy stories from Africa and India, and he shares some insights from his recent trips around the American West. As usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and thoughts on conservation.
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I found this to be a fascinating conversation, and I’d love to hear what you think. If you have a moment, please shoot me an email and let me know your thoughts. As always, thanks for taking the time to listen; hope you enjoy.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/john-dunaway/
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3:00 - How John describes his work
4:20 - Details on the ships
5:40 - Length of the typical ocean voyage
8:35 - How John became a ship captain
10:25 - A typical day on an ocean voyage
12:40 - John’s morning routine
19:00 - Superstitions on the ship
21:00 - Details on the crew and boat
22:15 - How John leads his crew
25:20 - Comparing leadership methods of old-timers and younger captains
27:20 - Ernest Shackleton
28:40 - Common misconceptions
30:35 - Most dangerous areas John has visited
31:00 - Adventures with Somali pirates
33:50 - Robberies at port
36:15 - Getting a gun shoved in his chest in Mumbai
38:40 - John’s early years in Brazil and Texas
39:10 - Family ties to ships and the ocean
41:00 - John’s decision to pursue ships as a career
41:55 - John’s advice to young students at the Merchant Marine Academy
43:45 - How fatherhood has changed his perspective
49:30 - How John became a well-known photographer
54:45 - Background on John’s ability as a writer
58:00 - John’s recent adventures in the American West
1:03:30 - What was most striking about the American West
1:07:30 - Favorite books
1:10:15 - Favorite documentaries
1:11:00 - Best piece of advice he’s ever received
1:12:30 - Biggest challenge facing the oceans today
1:15:00 - John’s request to the listeners
1:15:40 - Connect with John online

John Dunaway - Life and Times of a Merchant Mariner

Justin Simoni is an ultra-endurance adventurer who is most well known for his self-powered, long-distance tours that combine cycling, mountain running, and climbing. He is currently preparing for the "Highest Hundred” in which he’ll climb Colorado’s 100 highest peaks, accessing them all by bike, in 60 days or less. If he pulls it off (and I’m betting that he will), it will be the first time anyone has linked all of these peaks by bike in a completely self-supported style.
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Most people would assume that Justin has been a hardcore cyclist for his entire life, but he actually started riding relatively late. He studied painting in college and worked full time as a professional artist for years, living in an art gallery in downtown Denver. Frustrated with his car that kept breaking down, Justin purchased a bike and began to ride it as his primary mode of transportation. As his rides became longer and longer, he enjoyed it more and more, and pretty soon he was completely committed to long-distance cycling. What followed was a barrage of impressive solo ultra-distance adventures: cycling the Pacific Coast, racing the Tour Divide mountain bike race twice, and completing the Tour 14er, which involved cycling to all 58 of Colorado’s 14,000-foot mountains and climbing them... in just 34 days.
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Thanks to his athletic accomplishments, artistic perspective, hilarious sense of humor, and infectious enthusiasm, Justin is truly one of a kind. We had a fun and funny conversation that covered a wide range of topics from his adventures to his time as an artist. We chatted about some of the techniques that he uses to stay upbeat during periods of extreme fatigue or fear, and we discussed how he balances his free-wheeling artist’s mentality with the monk-like discipline required to pull off such serious adventures. As usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and Justin shares the best piece of advice he’s ever received.
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I appreciate Justin taking the time to chat during such a hectic period of planning and training. This was a really fun conversation, so I hope you enjoy.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/justin-simoni/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
2:40 - How Justin describes his work
4:45 - "Highest Hundred” defined
5:10 - Significance of highest hundred
7:20 - Background of Justin’s self-powered adventures
9:20 - When Justin started seriously riding bikes
10:00 - Growing up in Connecticut
10:45 - His decision to move West
11:50 - Skateboarding and skateboarding advocacy
12:50 - Beginning cycling
14:15 - Pacific Coast bike tour
15:50 - Tour Divide
18:30 - Epic snowfall on the Tour Divide course
20:45 - Justin’s approach to hardcore adventure
21:45 - Positivity versus negativity in ultra-endurance
23:15 - Strategies for overcoming fatigue
24:45 - How he decides when he does need to stop
25:30 - Other techniques for keeping a positive mindset
26:00 - Justin’s ability to invent his own rules and challenges
27:00 - “Everesting” Green Mountain
29:30 - Enjoyment of truly knowing a place
31:30 - Justin’s approach to creating art
32:50 - The hard work involved in athletics and art
35:35 - How much art is a part of Justin’s life currently
36:35 - How adventures changes people
39:00 - Heroes and mentors
42:00 - Overarching goal of sharing these adventures with the public
43:45 - Favorite Books
45:00 - Favorite films
46:50 - Surprising activities
48:40 - Best advice he’s ever received
53:00 - Enlightenment through endurance
56:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience
58:50 - Favorite location in the West
1:01:00 - Justin’s request of the listeners
1:02:00 - Connect with Justin online and follow the adventure!

Justin Simoni - The Ultra-Endurance Artist

If you love art and the American West, chances are you’re already a fan of Teal Blake. His paintings of bucking horses, working cowboys, and the Western ranching lifestyle are some of the most authentic and creative around. Teal's art is authentically Western because he’s so authentically Western—he has worked on ranches for all of his life, has ridden rodeo on the professional level, and has been making art since before he can remember. These unique life experiences, combined with a deep-seated drive to create original and striking art, meld together to make him one of the most genuine and fresh faces in Western art today.
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Teal grew up in Augusta, Montana, the son of two creative parents who allowed him to roam free—fishing, hunting, and exploring the wilderness out his backdoor. During high school, he discovered his talent for bull riding and rodeo, and he pursued that passion for years, eventually competing on the professional circuit. Throughout all of his various adventures and life stages, Teal was continuously sketching and painting, and after several impressive showings at western art shows, he decided to make a go of it as a professional artist. Since then he hasn’t looked back, and his stature in the Western art world continues to grow.
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We had an in-depth conversation in which we discussed Teal’s upbringing in Montana and Idaho, and how his artistic parents influenced his life and work. We chatted about his experience at art school, which ended with him flunking out, yet being the only one from his class to actually make it as a professional artist. We discuss his background in ranching and rodeo, and his process of transitioning into life as a professional artist. We also talk about the important role that external validation can play in a solitary creative endeavor such as painting. As usual, we discuss favorite books, favorite films, and his favorite place in the American West. We cover a lot in this episode, so be sure to check out the episode notes for all the topics and links to everything we discuss. Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/teal-blake/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED
2:45 - How Teal describes his work
3:33 - Process of becoming a professional artist
5:00 - Teal’s childhood in Montana
7:55 - Teal’s parents and their influence on him
9:35 - Early artistic influences
11:20 - Early artistic endeavors
12:00 - Move to Idaho and rodeo beginnings
14:55 - Decision to stop riding bulls
17:40 - Teal’s experience at college art school
21:30 - Transition from rodeo to full-time artist
24:00 - Teal’s first art show
28:00 - Teal’s daily routine and artistic phases
31:05 - Ranch work and its influence on Teal’s work
35:25 - Teal’s attraction to bucking animals — painting and riding them
38:20 - Biggest changes in Teal’s art over the past 10 years
40:33 - Challenge of creating new and original work
43:00 - Thoughts on the business of professional art
48:20 - Favorite books
52:10 - Importance of being humbled
53:10 - Raising kids in the internet age
56:50 - Favorite films
58:40 - Surprising hobbies
1:01:00 - Great advice Teal has received
1:02:15 - Favorite place in the West
1:05:50 - Teal’s advice to the listeners
1:07:45 - Connect with Teal online
1:08:10 - Chappin’!!

Teal Blake - On Being Authentic & Original

Dan Flores is a writer, historian, and former professor whose work explores the connections between people and the natural world in the American West. His most recent books—Coyote America and American Serengeti—are two of the most enlightening and informative books on the West’s natural history that I have ever read. The former is a biography of the coyote, a surprisingly fascinating animal with a rich and severely misunderstood history. The latter explores the last big mammals of the great plains—pronghorn, coyotes, horses, grizzlies, bison, and wolves—and also gives a great overview of North American big history.
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It’s clear that Dan was a wonderful professor, because as you’ll hear in this episode, he has a real knack for explaining complicated subjects in a way that’s understandable, engaging, and exciting. This conversation gave me a glimpse into what it must have been like to be a student in Dan’s class at the University of Montana—I walked away from it full of new knowledge, and it whet my appetite to dig deeper into the many subjects we covered.
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I could’ve asked Dan questions for hours and hours, but in our relatively short time together we managed to cover a lot. We start by discussing the coyote—how and why the animal has been so misunderstood, its similarities to humans, how it has managed to thrive despite efforts to totally eradicate the species, and the varying pronunciations of the word coyote. Then we discuss horses—the misconception that they are a non-native species in North America, their evolutionary history around the world, and some modern-day challenges facing the West's few remaining wild horses. We also talk about Dan’s childhood in Louisiana, his current home in New Mexico, his favorite books on the American West, and much, much more.
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This is an excellent episode and I’m excited for you to listen. If you haven’t already, buy Coyote America and American Serengeti—I can promise you’ll love them both. 
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http://mountainandprairie.com/dan-flores/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:00 - How Dan describes his work
4:10 - History of the pronunciation of “Coyote”
7:30 - Coyote’s historical reputation
11:00 - Coyote’s historical status in Native American lore
12:30 - Mark Twain’s influence on the coyotes’ image
14:05 - Coyotes as humans’ avatars
16:15 - Fission and fusion in coyotes
18:00 - Coyotes' ability to control their reproduction
22:20 - Dan’s thoughts on the current attempted Federal Land grab
28:45 - Misconception that horses are non-native
34:30 - Current issues with horses in the United States
37:55 - Dan’s thoughts on the BLM Wild Mustang Program
40:15 - Dan’s early years in Louisiana
43:00 - First trip to Carlsbad Caverns
45:20 - Dan’s passionate love of desert
48:55 - Living in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley
51:00 - Changes in Montana during Dan’s time there
55:00 - "In Defense of the Ranchette” article
1:01:45 - Favorite books about the American West
1:08:00 - Most powerful experience outdoors
1:09:20 - Favorite place in the West
1:11:30 - Dan’s request of the listeners
1:15:45 - Connect with Dan

Dan Flores - Chronicling the West’s Rich Natural History

Duke Beardsley was well on his way to a career in medicine, when, just before med school, he took a hard turn onto a new path when he decided to pursue art as a full-time vocation. Since then, he has become one of the West’s most revered artists, producing paintings of cowboys, anglers, and the Western way of life in a style that is uniquely his own. His work is big, bold, and completely original, and it continues to grow and evolve in ways that surprise even Duke himself.
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Thanks to a childhood spent between Denver and his family’s eastern Colorado ranch, Duke has been immersed in cowboy culture for as long as he can remember. He has been drawing non-stop since he could hold a crayon, and as a child (sometimes to the dismay of his parents) he demonstrated a proclivity for sketching western scenes on the walls of his family’s home. Duke is also a committed conservationist with a deep devotion to preserving the West’s landscapes and heritage. This eclectic mix of experiences and interests, combined with a formal art education, allows Duke to produce works that are ambitious, inspiring, and engaging.
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I stopped by Duke’s Denver studio earlier this week, where we had a fun and wide-ranging conversation. We chat about his decision to change his career goal from medicine to art, and the value he gleaned from a formal art education.  He explains that life-long obsession with drawing on walls, and he tells some stories about how, as an adult, drawing on walls has led to surprising professional opportunities. We talk about his artistic process, his meditation practice, and how he managed his extroverted personality in the solitary world of creating art. He also discusses why land conservation is an issue that is so near and dear to his heart, and offers up some excellent book recommendations.
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This was a lot of fun and I really appreciate Duke inviting me into his studio. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, and check out Duke on Instagram, Facebook, and his website.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/duke-beardsley/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED
2:40 - How Duke describes his work
3:30 - Growing up between Denver and eastern Colorado
5:15 - Artistic energy in Duke’s family
6:30 - Duke’s early path toward medicine
8:30 - Transition to art school
9:40 - Biggest lesson learned from art school
12:20 - Focusing his art on horses and the West
14:20 - Life post-art school
15:30 - How Duke’s art is different now from 20 years ago
18:30 - Drawing on the wall
20:20 - Why Duke paints big pieces
21:31 - Story behind Duke’s line ups
24:45 - Getting in “the zone” while painting line ups 
26:40 - Working on multiple pieces at once
27:50 - Working with galleries
29:00 - Process for commissioned paintings
31:45 - Extrovert or Introvert?
34:30 - Duke’s artistic process
38:00 - Duke’s meditation practice
41:00 - Drawing on the wall at Las Pampas Lodge
44:00 - Working with Fishpond
45:50 - Passion for land conservation
49:30 - Favorite books
52:34 - Favorite films
54:00 - Surprising activities
54:45 - Most powerful outdoor experience
57:00 - Favorite place in the West
58:40 - Best peice of advice ever recieved
59:45 - Duke’s request of the listeners
1:00:30 - Connect with Duke online

Duke Beardsley - Art in the Big, Bold American West

Mark Maggiori has taken the western art scene by storm with his dramatically realistic paintings of cowboys, horses, landscapes, and scenes from the American West. But painting is only a small part of Mark’s journey as a professional artist—he is also an accomplished director, filmmaker, drawer, photographer, and musician, working for companies like Disney as an illustrator and fronting a major-record-label rock band. To make his story even more interesting, Mark was born and raised in France, and is a relative newcomer to the western United States.
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When he was 15, Mark took a road trip across America with his adventurous uncle, igniting his passion for Western landscapes and planting the seed of his western art career that would flourish two decades later. Between then and now, he has demonstrated an uncanny ability to dive headfirst into a wide array of artistic endeavors with single-minded focus and work ethic, enjoying success at every level.  At little over three years ago, at age 36, all of Mark’s talents and experiences melded together when he decided to try and paint his first cowboy. In what he describes as an epiphany, Mark immediately knew he had found his true identity as an artist.
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Mark and I had a fun conversation. We talk about all the stages of his prolific career as an artist, and how he has approached each one with a laser-like focus and uncompromising work ethic. Mark explains how he discovered his talent for drawing—a talent that he had no idea he possessed until after he had enrolled in art school. We also chat about how being new to America has afforded him a fresh perspective on the people and landscapes of the American West, a perspective that shines through in his paintings. He gives details on his workman-like approach to painting and ensuring the historical accuracy of his work, and how exercise helps to fuel his creativity and work ethic.  As usual, we cover favorite books, documentaries, and the craziest thing that’s ever happened to him in the outdoors, which is a ridiculous and pretty damn scary story!
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Be sure to check out the webpage for links to all of Mark’s work, his upcoming solo show, and everything we discuss in this episode. Hope you enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/mark-maggiori/
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Topics Discussed
3:00 - How Mark describes his work
5:11 - Growing up in France
6:30 - Road trip across America
11:20 - Mark’s interests as a teenager
12:40 - The attraction to art school
15:40 - Discovering his talent for art
18:45 - Learning work ethic
20:30 - Working for Disney
22:45 - Working in music videos
23:45 - Performing music and creating art
24:30 - Mark’s time with Pleymo
27:25 - Leaving music
32:00 - Coming to America to make a film
35:40 - Demolition derbies and rodeos
36:50 - Starting to paint cowboys
41:00 - Building his following through Instagram and networking
44:00 - Expanding to new galleries
45:00 - Secret of painting clouds
47:55 - Keeping his work accurate
50:00 - Starting to paint Native Americans
54:30 - Mark’s daily routine
58:45 - Favorite books
1:01:00 - Favorite documentaries
1:02:30 - Favorite place in the West
1:03:50 - Most powerful experience in the outdoors
1:05:30 - Getting chased by crazy people in Louisiana
1:10:15 - Mark’s request of the listeners
1:12:50 - Connect with Mark online and learn about his upcoming art show

Mark Maggiori - A Fresh View of the American West

Matt Barber and Joel Doub are the owners of Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, a Bozeman-based fly rod company known for its unyielding commitment to quality, craftsmanship, and enduring performance. The duo purchased the company in early 2017 from Tom Morgan, a fly fishing legend who, along with his wife Gerri, built the company into one of the world’s most unique and renowned rod builders. Rather than focus on the latest fads or selling a high volume of products, Tom was dedicated solely to building the highest quality rod, one that could be passed on from generation to generation, decade after decade.
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You may be surprised to learn that Matt and Joel are not fishing industry veterans—their previous careers were in education and medical device sales, respectively. But when Tom Morgan decided to sell the company, Matt and Joel’s passion for fly fishing, their willingness to learn from the best, and their commitment to continuing the company’s legacy allowed them to stand out from the crowd of competing buyers. To everyone’s dismay, Tom passed away unexpectedly soon after the sale of the company, but only after imparting his wisdom, craftsmanship secrets, and high standards to Matt and Joel. Building on Tom and Gerri’s rock-solid foundation, the company is now entering its next phase, and the future has never looked brighter.
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Matt and Joel were in Denver for the annual Fly Fishing Show, so we met up to chat about the company and their journey into fly fishing entrepreneurship. We talked at length about Tom and his laser-like focus on quality, and how he was willing to snap a rod in half if it did not meet his high standards. We chatted about the “secret” to making these rods, which mostly boils down to being willing to work harder than anyone else. We talk about Tom’s unique partnership with his wife Gerri, and how the couple went about transferring decades of knowledge and experience to Matt and Joel. We discuss the company’s unique business model, and how it flies in the face of most mainstream, MBA business theories. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, crazy outdoor experiences, and plenty more.
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This was a very fun conversation, and I’m excited to watch the company continue to grow and thrive under Matt and Joel’s ownership. Be sure to check out the episode notes for everything we discuss, and follow Tom Morgan Rodsmiths on Instagram and other social media. Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/tom-morgan-rodsmiths/
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Topics Discussed:
3:00 - How Matt and Joel describe their work
3:25 - Their professional backgrounds
4:50 - Overview of Tom Morgan Rodsmiths
6:40 - How Tom and Gerri and began building rods
7:20 - Tom and Gerri’s first time building a rod
8:15 - Tom’s quest for a “perfect fly rod”
9:50 - Specifics on Tom Morgan custom rods
13:00 - Why the rods do not have fancy names
14:30 - The “secret” to Tom Morgan rods
17:40 - TMR’s business model
20:45 - Why they purchased an “unconventional” business
23:50 - How they’ve been received as the new owners
26:55 - How the Tom Morgan philosophy has carried over into other parts of life
29:15 - Their history as “makers”
32:30 - Thoughts on life in Bozeman
36:20 - The process of buying the business
40:00 - What Tom and Gerri like about Matt and Joel
42:30 - Tom’s unexpected passing
43:40 - Gerri’s influence on the company and Matt and Joel
46:15 - On being embraced by the industry after Tom’s death
48:00 - “The O’Dell,” Casting for Recovery, and Duke Beardsley
55:30 - Future of the business
1:00:30 - Favorite books
1:05:20 - Most powerful experience in the outdoors
1:08:10 - Favorite location in the West
1:10:00 - Best advice ever received
1:11:20 - Request of the listeners
1:13:15 - Matt asks Ed a question!
1:16:00 - Connect with Tom Morgan Rodsmiths

Matt Barber & Joel Doub - Stewards of a Fly Fishing Legacy

Jillian Lukiwski is a writer, photographer, and silversmith who lives near the banks of the Snake River in south central Idaho. Her quiet confidence and deliberate approach to living have allowed Jillian to blaze her own trail, creating a rewarding career and an authentic life centered around Idaho's unique landscape. When not working, Jillian and her husband enjoy the western lifestyle from every imaginable angle—bird hunting with their german shorthair pointers, big game hunting, fishing, running, horseback riding, mountain biking, caring for their farm animals, and cultivating their land, to name a few.
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Big western landscapes have always been an important part of Jillian’s life—her father worked for Canada’s National Park Service, so she was raised with a deep appreciation for the outdoors and adventure. From an early age, she was riding—and falling off of—horses, shadowing her father in the backcountry, and building a personal foundation of self-sufficiency and toughness. As a young woman, she applied that ingrained tenacity to writing, photography, and creating jewelry, and has since built a loyal following of admirers and customers around the world through her website, The Noisy Plume.
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We had a fun conversation and managed to cover a wide range of interesting topic. We discussed her life path that eventually landed her in southeastern Idaho, and we chatted about the unique nature of that region. We talked about her creative process, how she’s been mostly self-taught in all of her art forms, and how she is able to manage the distractions of social media and the online world. We chatted about the importance of being uncomfortable, and how self-imposed physical and mental challenges can help to inoculate yourself against the inevitable difficulties of life. Jillian is a voracious reader, so we had a great discussion about books, as well as how reading has contributed to her success as a writer.  Be sure to check the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed.
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This was a fun and inspiring interview, and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/jillian-lukiwski/
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Topics discussed:
2:50 - How Jillian describes her work
3:20 - Jillian’s home in Idaho
4:40 - How she ended up in southeastern Idaho
7:00 - Description of Pocatello and the surrounding landscape
9:10 - Growing up in Canada’s National Parks
10:50 - Childhood in the outdoors
13:00 - Lessons i toughness learned from her father
16:40 - Jillian’s university experience
18:50 - Jillian’s drive to be her own boss
19:45 - Her early attraction to jewelry
21:00 - First silversmithing class
22:50 - Being a self-taught artist
24:25 - Her quest for original ideas
26:20 - Avoiding social media distraction
28:20 - Daily routines and must-do activities
31:10 - Running
35:20 - Hunting and her relationship with her bird dogs
40:00 - The reality of posting hunting images on social media
44:10 - Why Jillian seeks out discomfort
48:35 - Stories of suffering and benefits of those experiences
50:30 - Advice for those seeking a life similar to Jillian’s
52:15 - Favorite books
56:20 - How reading has affected her writing
59:45 - More books
1:01:00 - Favorite movies
1:03:15 - Unexpected talents
1:04:30 - Most powerful experience in the outdoors
1:06:45 - Favorite location in the West
1:09:20 - Biggest challenge facing the West
1:12:00 - Jillian’s request of the listeners
1:12:59 - Connect with Jillian online

Jillian Lukiwski - Art and Adventure in the American West

Brian Calvert is the Editor-in-Chief of the High Country News, a non-profit media organization that covers the defining stories of the American West. Since 1970, High Country News has been fully committed to in-depth journalism that explores complex relationships between the West's communities, business interests, and the natural world. In our current media climate that seems to celebrate surface-level, hastily written news stories, High Country News remains committed to long-form, well-researched, and nuanced explorations of complicated issues.
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Brian is a fourth-generation Wyoming native who grew up in Pinedale at the base of the spectacular Wind River Range. A blue-collar upbringing, a stint in the Army, time working in the oil fields, and years spent overseas as a foreign correspondent have given Brian a unique and valuable perspective into the relationship between people and place. This depth of experience allows Brian to approach Western issues with a curious, patient, and balanced style that is becoming more and more rare in today’s media.
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I was on Colorado’s Western Slope for work and stopped by the High Country News office in Paonia to chat with Brian. We had a fascinating conversation about the history of High Country News and how its commitment to in-depth journalism is more important now than ever. We discussed Brian’s upbringing in Wyoming, and why he chose to pursue journalism as a career.  We talked about his time spent as a foreign correspondent in places like Cambodia, China, and Afghanistan, as well as the lessons he learned from living in such intense and sometimes dangerous environments. And as you’ve come to expect, we discussed his favorite books, authors, and places in the American West.
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There’s a lot to learn in this episode, so please check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Also, please visit the High Country News website or consider ordering a print subscription. Brian and his team are doing important work that deserves support from thoughtful, curious folks like the listeners of this podcast. Enjoy!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/brian-calvert/
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Topics Discussed:
2:35 - How Brian describes his work
3:15 - History of the High Country News
5:30 - Moving HCN to Paonia
7:00 - HCN’s non-profit model
12:15 - Current shifts in modern journalism
15:30 - Challenges of producing in-depth news in the age of Twitter
21:40 - Thoughts on the rawness and plain-spokenness of the West
24:00 - Brian’s early years in Pinedale
26:25 - Joining the Army and National Guard
27:00 - Desire to write and see the world
28:20 - Adventurous childhood
30:45 - From college to foreign correspondent
33:33 - Working in Cambodia
35:20 - Where Brian was on 9/11
36:30 - Moving back to WY and working in the oil fields
40:55 - Scary events overseas
45:00 - Adjusting to US after life in war zones
47:00 - Learning to surf and surfing as a healing process
49:45 - Being selected for the Ted Scripps Fellowship
51:00 - Opportunity at HCN
53:20 - In-depth journalism in the era of “fake news”
55:25 - Importance of high values in unbiased journalism
1:00:00 - Importance of considering all sides of arguments
1:02:15 - Role of HCN in journalism for a diverse readership
1:05:30 - Favorite books about the West
1:07:50 - The American West as an idea
1:11:30 - Interesting and weird hobbies
1:12:25 - Poetry
1:14:20 - Favorite location in the West
1:15:35 - Best advice ever receive
1:16:00 - Request of the listeners
1:17:00 - Connect with Brian

Brian Calvert - In-Depth Journalism in the New West

Longtime listeners of the podcast will definitely remember my first interview with Jim Howell—he is a rancher and CEO of Grasslands LLC, a progressive ranch management company with operations in the American West, Florida, and New Zealand. Jim was also a co-founder of the Savory Institute, a non-profit organization that espouses the use of holistic planned grazing to restore healthy grasslands around the world. Having worked close to the land his entire career, Jim has a fascinating personal and professional backstory, so I encourage you to listen to our first episode, if you haven’t already.
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Knowing that many Mountain & Prairie podcast listeners either work in ranching or are interested in holistic ranch management, Jim and I decided to have a second conversation focused on more of the nitty gritty details of his process for managing ranches. We discuss a wide range of topics, from how Jim and his investors identify ranches as potential acquisitions to their methods for increasing stocking rates while simultaneously improving the health of the grass. We discuss the intense, focused planning that goes into each operation, and Jim explains how his grazing process translates into increased biodiversity and improved ecological health of the entire landscape. This conversation is like a college class in ranch management, only much more fun and engaging.
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Our conversation revolves around two of Grasslands’ eastern Montana ranches—the 53,000+/- acre Antelope Springs Ranch and the 38,000+/- acre Cinch Buckle Ranch. My Mirr Ranch Group colleague Duffy Brown and I are working with Jim to market both of these ranches, so we’re familiar with the operations and landscapes and understand the amazing results that Jim and his team have been able to achieve. Both ranches serve as excellent case studies of how holistic management can bolster the health of the grass, increase profitability, and be a true winning proposition for the land, animals, and all other stakeholders.
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Even if you don’t have a specific interest in ranches or grasslands, you’ll still get a lot out of this episode. Jim has very wise answers to some of the quick questions that I didn’t ask during our first interview, and he offers plenty of great book recommendations, including one book that Jim thinks every college freshman should read. The episode is packed with great information, so don’t forget to check the episode notes.  Jim is a hardworking, curious, humble, and smart guy who has managed to create a fulfilling career that’s making the world a better place, so I know you’ll enjoy the conversation.
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http://mountainandprairie.com/jim-howell-2/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:00 - How Jim describes his work
5:20 - Overview of the Savory Institute and Grasslands
8:40 - Grassland’s work in the northern Great Plains ranches
10:40 - Traits of successful ranches that are common across many geographies
12:25 - Cool season grasses of the Northern Great Plains
15:15 - Importance of water on Great Plains ranches
19:25 - History of the cattle business on the Great Plains
24:30 - Increasing stocking rates
26:00 - Increasing grassland health on the ranches
27:10 - Techniques for increasing stocking rates
31:55 - Allowing for sufficient recovery without under-grazing
34:00 - The extra intellectual effort of planned grazing
39:00- The hard lessons of experience
39:45 - Specific tools for managing grazing
45:10 - Evolution of mapping during Jim’s career
46:00 - Improvements to Cinch Buckle and Antelope Springs Ranches
48:45 - Ability to generate profits AND replenishing ecological capital
53:30 - Ranches as an investment for a non-ranching buyers
55:00 - Full-care grazing versus owning cattle
1:00:30 - Upward trajectory of both ranches
1:04:10 - What Jim looks for in employees
1:07:30 - Specific books about grass and holistic ranching
1:11:00 - Best book Jim has read in the last year
1:13:45 - Favorite book of all time
1:16:20 - Best piece of advice Jim’s ever received

Jim Howell, Part II - Restoring Ecological Capital Through Grazing

Chris Eyer is a true Western polymath. He is probably best known for his work as a mule packer, in which he uses mules to transport supplies into some of Montana’s most remote wilderness areas—he documents the adventures on his extremely popular Instagram account "muledragger." But as you’ll hear in our conversation, mule packing only scratches the surface—Chris is an experienced mountaineer and climber, a former US Marine, a practicing Buddhist, a leather craftsman, and a successful electrical contractor. From his home base in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley, Chris leads a full and fascinating life, working hard and enjoying his connection to the natural world and his animals.
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Chris was raised in California, and from an early age was attracted to the outdoors and adventures in wild places. On a backpacking trip during his teens, he came across a team of mules and was immediately entranced—from that moment on, he knew that he wanted to work as a mule packer.  As an adult, Chris taught himself the ins and outs of mule packing, a hard-knocks method of learning that’s not for the faint of heart. But through this long and tough self-education, he established incredibly deep relationships with all of his animals-- relationships that have significantly enriched his life in many ways.
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As you’d expect from someone with Chris’s diverse set of experiences, we had an extremely wide-ranging conversation. We chat about how he became a mule packer and some of the crazy and scary experiences early in his career. We cover his time in the Marines, and the lessons he learned that carry over into his daily life now. We also discuss his connection to Buddhism and his meditation practice, and how his mindful approach to life and wilderness travel keeps him and his team of animals safe in dangerous situations. Chris also explains the specifics of mules from a biological and temperamental perspective. We discuss Chris’s unique connection to legendary alpinist Conrad Anker, as well as the similarities between packing and climbing. As usual, we hit upon books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more.
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There’s a ton of amazing information in this episode, so be sure the check out the episode notes. Hopefully I’ll get Chris back for a part two, because there’s still plenty to discuss. Enjoy!
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
2:50 - How Chris describes his work
4:15 - Bitterroot Valley
6:30 - How Chris settled in the Bitterroot
8:10 - The equine “feedback loop”
8:45 - Early days riding horses
9:40 - Influenced by Conrad Anker and Alex Lowe
11:10 - First interaction with a packer
12:15 - Joining the Marines
14:00 - Studying philosophy and religious studies
16:15 - Discovering the Montana wilderness
20:10 - Lessons learned from the Marines
23:40 - Buddhism in Chris’s daily life
27:30 - Life’s constant state of change
29:30 - The way wilderness strips away people’s surface-level differences
31:30 - How to learn to meditate
34:15 - Learning the details of mule packing
36:30 - Scary early experience packing
40:30 - Detailed discussion about mules
45:10 - Misconceptions about mules
47:30 - How Chris selects his mules
50:20 - Control versus letting go
55:20 - Trip with Conrad Anker
1:00:15 - Significance of the Heart W brand
1:03:30 - Favorite books
1:06:40 - Favorite documentaries
1:07:55 - Fun activities
1:10:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience
1:17:00 - Best advice
1:19:30 - Request of the listeners
1:20:30 - Connect with Chris online

Chris Eyer - Montana’s Mindful Mule Packer

Hampton Sides is a narrative historian, best-selling author, and editor-at-large for Outside magazine. Mountain & Prairie listeners probably know Hampton best from his book "Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West," but the reality is that Blood and Thunder represents only a fraction of his work. "Hellhound on His Trail," "In the Kingdom of Ice," and "Ghost Soldiers" are a few of his other notable books, not to mention countless articles for Outside, National Geographic, and other well-known magazines. Hampton is originally from Memphis, Tennessee, but now splits his time between Santa Fe, New Mexico and Colorado Springs, where he’s the Journalist in Residence at Colorado College.
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This podcast is a live recording of a conversation that Hampton and I had in front of an audience at the Aspen Institute in Aspen, Colorado. This public event was part of a four-day seminar about the history of the 19th Century American West, which was hosted by the Aspen Institute's Society of Fellows. Since the overall theme of the week was the West, Hampton and I focused our conversation on "Blood and Thunder," and chatted about the many topics presented in the book: the Navajos, the life of Kit Carson, Carson’s obsession with loyalty, Manifest Destiny, historical misconceptions about the time period, Hampton’s process for researching the book, and more. There are also a few minutes of Q&A from the audience toward the end of our talk. The Aspen Institute also filmed the event, so be sure to visit the podcast webpage if you want to watch the video.
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Having the opportunity to speak with one of my all-time favorite authors at such an exceptional, world-renowned institution was a real dream come true. Endless thanks to the Aspen Institute for inviting me, and the same to Hampton for being so engaging, funny, knowledgeable, and down to earth. You’re going to learn a lot from this episode, so I hope you enjoy listening… or watching!  And if you haven’t already, you should order and read Hampton’s books as soon as possible—you won’t be disappointed.
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VIDEO and EPISODE NOTES: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
2:40 - Welcome from the Aspen Institute
4:45 - Ed’s intro
6:30 - Background on Navajos
9:15 - Overview of Kit Carson
13:30 - Polarizing views of Kit Carson
14:45 - Growth of the legend of Kit Carson
20:20 - Carson and John Fremont
24:45 - The downside of Carson’s loyalty
27:45 - How to evaluate historical figures according to their time
32:30 - How Hampton researched the book
35:45 - Modern day societies attempts to right the wrongs
39:30 - Ideas for getting past today’s divisiveness
41:40 - Hampton’s book recommendations
43:50 - Heroes and mentors
47:00 - Audience Q&A
1:08:20 - Closing

Hampton Sides - Live at the Aspen Institute

Juanita Vero is a partner at the E Bar L Ranch, a family-owned dude ranch located on the Blackfoot River, about an hour east of Missoula, Montana. The ranch was purchased and founded by Juanita’s great-grandfather and has served as a Rocky Mountain retreat for families from around the world for almost 100 years. If you’ve never visited but would like to learn more about the ranch, this conversation with Juanita is one of your only options—they don’t have a website, nor do they advertise. They serve the same clients year after year, clients who value an authentic, rustic, and tight-knit dude-ranching experience that is closely connected to the land.
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But the term “dude ranch” doesn’t really do the E Bar L justice. Juanita’s family has participated in some cutting-edge conservation projects, protecting their ranch with a unique conservation easement that also allows for responsible timber management. Becoming a member of the ranch’s summer staff is also an amazing experience, and it's not uncommon for staff members to develop such a deep love of the land that they go on to careers in ranching or conservation. Juanita and her family lead by example with their business management and land stewardship practices, which seem to rub off on everyone who visits or works at the ranch.
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Juanita and I connected just as she was wrapping up another successful summer season on the ranch. We had a fun conversation that covered everything from her great-grandfather’s purchase of the ranch in the early 1900s all the way up to its present day operations. We talk in detail about Juanita’s commitment to community service, and we dig into some of her work with groups such as Trout Unlimited, Montana Conservation Voters, and the Blackfoot Challenge.  We also discuss her youth on the ranch, and what she learned from leaving Montana in her teens to attend an east coast boarding school. We talk about toughness, the interesting story of how her parents met, and her blind date with her now husband, which happened to be a three-day elk hunt. And as usual, we cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and more.
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This was a great conversation, so I know you’ll enjoy it. Thanks again for listening.
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More info: http://mountainandprairie.com/juanita-vero/
Support the Podcast: https://www.patreon.com/mountainandprairie
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:10 - How Juanita describes her work
5:20 - Family history of the ranch
8:00 - Motivations for her great-grandfather to move West
12:15 -Who are the ranch guests?
15:30 - Funny guest stories from the ranch
18:10 - Growing up on the ranch
21:00 - Description of the ranch
22:10 - Conservation projects with the Nature Conservancy
31:10 - Juanita’s parents
35:15 - Importance of toughness
41:50 - Boarding school on the east coast
46:20 - Passion for community service and conservation
55:10 - Need for conservation to counterbalance development 
1:00:15 - Importance of rural land use
1:02:30 - Favorite books
1:05:00 - 3-day blind date with her now-husband
1:06:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience
1:09:50 - Favorite locations in the West
1:11:40 - Best advice ever received
1:13:30 - Requests of the listeners

Juanita Vero - A Deep Love of Place

Anyone who has listened to this podcast surely knows of best-selling author and narrative historian Hampton Sides. I reference his books often and was lucky enough to interview him in August at the Aspen Institute, which I released as a podcast episode. In that conversation, we discussed the history of the 19th-Century American West, and many of you kindly reached out to let me know how much you enjoyed learning from Hampton. So I was thrilled—and I think you will be too—when Hampton generously stopped through Colorado Springs last week in the midst of a busy tour for his amazing new book, "On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle."
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As you’d expect, we had a fun conversation that expanded upon our first interview—we dig into his childhood in Memphis, Tennessee, and discuss his life-long desire to be a writer. We talk about his early years in journalism, and how his experiences writing and editing have contributed to his success as an author. We also chat about his years at “Outside" magazine and some of the realities of being a freelance journalist and author. Additionally, he shares some of the ins and outs of his writing process, including the struggle of cranking out a first draft, a process he describes as spending time in the “pain cave.” We also discuss the Grand Canyon, Wallace Stegner’s writing, and much more.
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Finally, we spend some time talking about "On Desperate Ground," which I can’t recommend enough. I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton’s writing was simultaneously educational and entertaining, allowing me to learn a lot while thoroughly enjoying the process. You don’t have to be a war history buff to enjoy this book—his exploration of characters’ personalities, motivations, and egos makes for an engaging story that will appeal to anyone who is fascinated by interesting people. And being a weird guy who loves climbing big, absurdly cold mountains, I especially enjoyed our discussion of North Korea’s brutal winters and how sub-zero temperatures were one of the deadliest forces in this battle.
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Thanks again to Hampton for making time to meet up during such a busy book tour. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to all the authors and books we discuss, as we cover a lot.  This was a fun conversation, and I know you’ll enjoy it.
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Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton-2/
“On Desperate Ground” by Hampton Sides: http://a.co/d/aZBZFiO
First Episode with Hampton: http://mountainandprairie.com/hampton/
Support the Podcast: http://mountainandprairie.com/support/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:20 - How Hampton describes his work
7:15 - Hampton’s early years
11:00 - College and history training
13:40 - Importance of discipline in writing
17:00 - The "Pain Cave”
19:00 - Publising his first book
20:20 - First job out of college
22:00 - Working at Outside
24:45 - Learning the art of structure
28:30 - Importance of characters in history
31:40 - General MacArthur
36:00 - The cold as a character in the book
40:45 - US Marines’ retreat from the reservoir
41:50 - Chairman Mao
42:40 - Lessons learned from veterans
47:40 - Favorite books
48:45 - Favorite documentaries
49:40 - Most powerful experience in the outdoors
51:40 - Best advice ever received
52:45 - Connect with Hampton online

Hampton Sides, Part 2 - How to Tell a Damn Good Story

Jesse Womack wears many hats, but at his core, he is a rancher. He is the fifth generation to operate his family’s ranch near Victoria, Texas, a large-scale cattle operation that uses progressive land management techniques in a very unique landscape. Jesse also works closely with Texas Christian University’s Institute of Ranch Management, traveling far and wide to teach sustainable agricultural techniques to ranchers and farmers around the world. And on top of all of that, he is also a cofounder of Explore Ranches, alongside past podcast guests Jay Klebergand Allison Ryan.
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Responsible land stewardship is in Jesse’s DNA, and it is the foundation of all of his professional ventures. And as you’ll hear, he’s an open-minded, independent, and critical thinker who is able to speak eloquently on a wide array of sometimes-controversial issues surrounding agriculture.  When you combine those traits with his rock-solid work ethic and focus, you will understand why he has been able to establish himself as such a leader in agriculture, both in Texas and abroad. Whether you're deeply involved in agriculture or you’ve never set foot on a ranch, you’ll glean a great deal of value from Jesse’s perspective—his knowledge, passion, and worldly perspective are applicable for any type of endeavor.
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Jesse and I went to high school together, and even after knowing him for more than 25 years, I still learned a lot from this conversation. We talk about his work with TCU, and he shares some success stories from his time teaching in Panama, Ghana, Nigeria, and Brazil. He explains the importance of community buy-in and how focusing on commonalities and shared goals can help overcome cultural divides. We talk about his family’s history in Texas, and how he is raising his two sons to love and respect the outdoors. Jesse give a few updates on Explore Ranches, and talks about some exciting events they will be hosting soon. We also chat about his involvement with the Texas Agricultural Land Trust, and how conservation easements can be a useful tool for ranchers in Texas and beyond.  And as usual, we discuss favorite books and movies, and Jesse shares the best piece of advice he’s ever received, which I especially appreciated.
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Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jesse Womack!
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Episode Notes: http://mountainandprairie.com/jesse-womack/
https://www.exploreranches.com
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TOPICS DISCUSSED
3:30 - Funny story about Jesse’s son
5:00 - How Jesse describes his work
6:30 - TCU Institute of Ranch Management explained
8:30 - Experience in Brazil
10:00 - Countries where Jesse works
12:45 - Adjusting to different landscapes and cultures
14:00 - Success stories from TCU
17:45 - Importance of community buy-in
20:15 - Challenges of ranching in Brazil
23:30 - Misconceptions of ranching by environmentalists
30:30 - The need to be open-minded and consider other viewpoints
34:30 - Climate change and ranching
38:00 - Jesse’s family history in Texas
41:30 - Jesse’s family’s commitment to conservation
44:30 - Pressure of multigenerational ranch ownership
46:00 - Jesse’s career
47:30 - Surprises of running a ranch
49:00 - Texas Agricultural Land Trust
42:30 - Easements as a tool for agricultural
55:30 - Updates on Explore Ranches
57:30 - Mentors and heroes in ranching
59:30 - Our shared experience at Woodberry Forest School
52:00 - Lessons learned at Woodberry
1:05:30 - Favorite books
1:08:15 - Favorite films
1:08:45 - Hobbies
1:09:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience
1:14:15 - Favorite location in the West
1:14:45 - Best advice ever recieved
1:16:45 - Connect with Jesse online

Jesse Womack - Land Stewardship is in His Blood

Len Necefer is a scholar, entrepreneur, and outdoor adventurer who is also a proud member of the Navajo Nation. Academically, Len holds a Ph.D. in engineering and public policy, and he is currently a professor of both Indian Studies and public policy at the University of Arizona. In business, he’s the CEO of NativesOutdoors, a cutting-edge outdoor apparel company that uses its platform to advocate for the cultural empowerment indigenous people. And to top it all off, Len is a committed mountaineer, backcountry skier, and rock climber, having ticked off countless impressive adventures throughout the West.
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It is clear that Len has accomplished a lot personally, but what is even more impressive is the positive ripple effect his work is having on the outdoor industry. By melding his professional expertise, personal interests, and cultural heritage, he has become one of the leading voices advocating for Native American representation in outdoor recreation and conservation. His work and personal story have been featured in big-time publications such as Outside and Alpinist, and he’s recently delved into filmmaking with his newest film Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee. As you’ll hear, Len has a unique ability to educate and inspire, and his message is striking a chord with a large, engaged audience.
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As you’d expect from a guy as multifaceted as Len, he offers up a wealth of knowledge in our conversation. We talked about his Navajo heritage and discussed the unique history and culture of the Navajo tribe. We chatted about his recent film and discussed the of impact oil and gas development on Native populations in areas such as Bears Ears and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We chatted about the need for mutual respect between the outdoor industry and indigenous groups, and Len explains two fascinating case studies around rock climbing on sacred Native lands. He gives an excellent overview of his company NativesOutdoors, and he explains why he chose to start a business instead of a non-profit. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he ever received.
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Thanks so much to Len for carving out time to chat. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!
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http://mountainandprairie.com/len-necefer/
https://www.natives-outdoors.org
http://mountainandprairie.com/support/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:10 - How Len describes his work
6:15 - Len’s early years
7:00 - Navajo background
9:00 - History of the Navajo tribe
12:00 - Len’s new film: "Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee”
16:15 - Oil and gas development’s impact on humans
19:40 - Historic native management of landscapes
22:15 - Preservation of people as new phase of conservation
27:15 - NativesOutdoors
33:00 - For-profit versus non-profit
34:00 - Native Americans and the outdoor industry
38:30 - Climbing Case Studies: Devil’s Tower versus Bears Ears
43:00 - How does he accomplish so much?
45:00 - Len’s work ethic
48:15 - Best books about Native American culture
50:45 - Favorite books about the West
52:00 - Favorite films
53:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience
56:15 - Favorite locations in the West
57:00 - Best advice ever received
58:30 - Request of the listeners
59:15 - Connect with Len

Len Necefer - Indigenous Advocate

If you're a regular Mountain & Prairie listener, then you are undoubtedly familiar with best-selling author David Gessner. He has written several of my all-favorite books, most notably "All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West." He was also a past guest on this podcast almost exactly a year ago—a conversation that continues to receive excellent feedback and ranks as one of my most downloaded episodes. Between his writing, teaching, chairing the Creative Writing department at University of North Carolina Wilmington, and his role as a committed family man, David is a busy guy—so I greatly appreciate his sitting down to record a second episode.
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We caught up during his annual trip to Colorado and covered a wide range of fascinating topics, all presented with his signature style of deeply considered insightfulness balanced with a hilarious sense of humor. We chatted about his ongoing work on his new book about public lands and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as a recent research trip in which he flew in a Cessna from Colorado to northwest Montana and many places in between. We discussed his thoughts on Theodore Roosevelt, and how his opinions of the man have evolved throughout this book project. David shares more insights into his writing process and how endurance and team sports have helped build his discipline and work ethic as an author. We spend a good amount of time discussing his book "Ultimate Glory," digging into the mindset that allowed David to pursue the sport of Ultimate Frisbee—and writing—with laser-focused obsession. We finish up by chatting about some of the best books he's read in the past year, as well as one relatively unknown author that everyone who loves the West should read.
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This episode will obviously be of great interest to people who love the West, but I highly recommend it to anyone who is focused on a creative pursuit—writing, painting, poetry, sculpture, you name it. Thanks to his decades of daily grinding and obsession, David is a shining example of the discipline and commitment required to be a professional artist, and he's damn good at explaining it in a way that really sinks in.
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If you haven't already, check out my first conversation with David as well—there's a link in the episode notes.  But right now, enjoy this enlightening and hilarious conversation with David Gessner.
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Episode Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner-2/
David Gessner, Part 1: https://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - The importance of Boulder, Colorado in David’s life and work
9:00 - Endurance feats as a metaphor for writing
11:00 - Importance of having massive goals
12:45 - Importance of  ambition
15:00 - Current book project and trip to the West
18:45 - Recent flight around the West
20:00 - Examining TR in a modern context
22:20 - Reluctance to become an activist
25:50 - Changing perspectives on TR
30:00 - Political cartooning
32:00 - David on taking feedback from editors and others
35:15 - Importance of constraints in writing and life
39:50 - Arête
42:15 - Finding camaraderie outside of team sports
46:50 - Teaching the writing mindset
50:50 - Best books David read this past year
53:45 - Lesser known authors worth reading

David Gessner, Part 2 - Ambition, Art, and Arête

Heather Hansman is a freelance writer and editor whose work explores the intersection of science, adventure, and culture. Her new book Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West should be required reading for everyone who enjoys this podcast—it strikes the perfect balance of being entertaining and educational while examining all sides of the many issues facing the West's water supply. There are few topics in the West as divisive and emotional as water, and in her book, Heather provides a balanced overview of all the issues, delving deep into the substance of water-related arguments, without crossing over into the mind-numbing jargon that defines most water-related writing.
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The book follows Heather's 730-mile float down the length of the Green River, starting at the base of Wyoming's Wind River mountains and ending at the confluence of the Green and Colorado Rivers in Utah. Along the way, she meets with a wide range of western water stakeholders—ranchers, farmers, river guides, government employees, scientists, conservationists, and more—and digs into their sometimes competing interests fighting for their shares of water in the West. But the book is far from an academic examination of water law—Heather paddled two-thirds of the river completely alone, so there is also a compelling adventure narrative that runs throughout the book.
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To understand most of the challenges facing the West, you need to understand water, and this episode is a perfect place to start. Heather and I start our conversation by laying out some of the basics around water—terminology that you may have heard thrown around but never truly understood. She explains how water in the West is a property right separate from land, and she explains some of the common language used when discussing water. We chat about why the Colorado River is over-allocated, and how transbasin diversions have transformed much of the West into a very large and complex plumbing system. For the second half of the conversation, we discuss Heather's professional path as a writer, journalist, and former river guide. We talk about why she moved west, her first gig as a professional writer, and some of the tricks of the trade she uses to force herself to write. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and favorite locations in the West.
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As a guy who spends much of my day working with water and water rights, I can't thank Heather enough for writing this book. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!
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https://www.heatherhansman.com
More episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/heather-hansman/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:15 - Events leading to writing the book
7:30 - Overview of the river trip
11:00 - Women pursuing adventure for adventure's sake
15:00 - Water as a private property right
16:30 - What does “over-allocation” mean?
19:20 - How do we overcome water shortages?
20:30 - Transbasin diversions and the West’s plumbing system
23:00 - Ins-and-outs of dams
26:00 - Importance of being open-minded to all sides of issues in the West
29:40 - “Water flows uphill towards money”
32:00 - True value of water 
33:45 - Potential water crisis
35:00 - Reasons for optimism
39:10 - Early years of river guiding
42:30 - Pursuing a career in journalism
44:30 - Benefits of journalism grad school
45:45 - Process of writing and writing the book
48:00 - Mentors
50:50 - Becoming a full-time writer
52:15 - Favorite books
56:30 - Favorite films
57:30 - Scariest event on the Green River trip
1:02:30 - Favorite location in the West
1:05:00 - Request of the podcast listeners
1:06:30 - Connect with Heather online

Heather Hansman - Demystifying Water in the West

Morgan Irons is a Montana-based artist whose captivating oil paintings combine the classic style of late 19th-century painters with her own modern-day interpretation of the West’s people and places. When I first discovered Morgan’s art, I assumed I was looking at the work of a classically trained artist who’d been in the trenches of painting for decades… and I couldn’t have been more wrong! Morgan has only been painting since 2015, with virtually no artistic training prior. Her innate talent is matched only by her work ethic and commitment to the craft—she has built her life around the process of making art, which is inspiring and instructive for anyone with creative aspirations.
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Morgan was born in Durango and spent her youth in various parts of the West, including Alaska and Idaho. After college in the flat midwest, she immediately returned to more rugged landscapes, working in Alaska and eventually landing in Bozeman. She tried her hand at a “normal” job but found the corporate world to be uninspiring and frustrating. So rather than wallow and complain, she moved on from that job and soon thereafter, discovered her talent for painting. Since then, she’s gone all-in on her career as an artist, and she is building quite a strong following in the art world.
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If you are a person who dreams of pursuing your creative passion full time, then you will love this episode—it’s full of actionable ideas around art and the creative process. We talk about the remote cabin where Morgan lives and paints, and why she needs solitude and open spaces for maximum creative output. We discuss her daily routine and how she primes her artistic mindset through hiking, meditation, and writing. We also discuss how she blocks out distractions and her techniques for using the productive aspects of social media while avoiding the time-wasting traps. We obviously talk about the point when she discovered her talent for painting and how she has honed that talent through workshops and mentorships from top painters. Finally, Morgan tells some great stories about hunting for ghosts with her dad, her favorite books, a bear that broke into her car, and the importance of having no “Plan B.” Enjoy!
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https://www.morganirons.com
https://mountainandprairie.com/morgan-irons/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
5:00 - Where Morgan is based
6:00 - Why Morgan likes solitude
8:00 - Balancing technology—productivity vs. distraction
11:00 - Morgan’s younger years
12:00 - Heading to college in St. Louis
14:30 - Family history in Alaska
17:30 - Job in Alaska
22:00 - Lessons learned in Alaska
23:00 - Moving in Bozeman 
25:15 - Discovering art
27:00 - Buying paint and starting to make art
30:00 - Feelings during the process of painting
32:30 - Learning from the masters while keeping the originality
35:30 - Formal learning from world-class artists
38:00 - Learning from fellow students as well as professors
40:00 - Daily routines
44:00 - Meditation practice
46:30 - Balancing friendships with her need for solo time
50:00 - How the West shapes her work
53:30 - Mentors and artists Morgan admires
56:00 - A non-painting artist who Morgan admires
58:30 - How her psychology degree has helped her art
1:00:00 - Favorite books
1:04:00 - Ghost hunting!
1:08:30 - Crazy bear encounter
1:12:00 - Words of wisdom
1:14:30 - Connect with Morgan online

Morgan Irons - Finding Her Muse

This episode is a little different—it's part one of a two-part series in which I'm the one in the hot seat. It's a repost of my recent appearance on the Quivira Coalition's excellent podcast named "Down to Earth - The Planet to Plate Podcast." They were nice enough to invite me on to discuss some of my conservation work at Palmer Land Trust, particularly around our focus of conserving irrigated farmland in southeastern Colorado. It's fascinating work that hits on many of the issues we've previously discussed here on Mountain & Prairie—water rights, pressures facing agricultural communities, holistic approaches to resource management, balancing the needs of agriculture with that of municipalities, and more. It's what I spend the vast majority of my time doing, and I hope you'll find it interesting and informative.
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Regardless of whether or not you listen to my episode, I highly encourage you to check out Down to Earth. The host Mary-Charlotte is a journalistic pro who likes to dive deep in the nuances of agriculture and has interviewed some of the most impressive people working in agriculture today (present company excluded). If you've enjoyed my past episodes with folks like Jim Howell, Pat O'Toole, Christine Su, and, of course, Quivira Executive Director Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, then I can guarantee you'll love the "Down to Earth" podcast. There's a link to Down to Earth in the episode notes, so be sure to check it out and give them a great iTunes review if you're so inclined.
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Thanks again to Down to Earth for being interested in my work, and thanks to you all for listening. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions. Hope you enjoy!
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http://downtoearth.media
https://quiviracoalition.org

PART 1: Behind the Scenes with Ed - Cutting-Edge Land & Water Conservation in the West

If you listened to the previous episode, then you know that I'm mixing things up a bit. This is Part 2 of a two-part series in which I'm the one in the hot seat. It's a repost of my recent appearance on the "Truth & Dare" podcast, a wonderfully inspiring show that features in-depth conversations about personal growth, risk-taking, and living life to the fullest.
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In the first part of this two-part series, you'll remember a detailed discussion around my professional interests—land, water, and agriculture. This conversation on Truth & Dare is equally detailed and deep, but focused almost exclusively on my personal life—my journey from North Carolina to the West, my obsession with long-distance running, the crazy way that I met my wife, lessons learned for a semester of NOLS, how my wife and girls' influence has made me a much better person, and much more. Many of the books and ideas that we've discussed on Mountain & Prairie play a big role in my personal evolution from wanna-be real estate developer to conservationist, so I wanted to share this with you all.
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As you'll hear, the host Camden is a curious, kind, and natural conversationalist who likes to talk deeply about subjects of substance—not surface-level nonsense. I was turned on to her podcast when she interviewed my friend—artist, surfer, and family-man Kevin Mirsky—and I was thrilled and a little nervous when she asked me to join her on the show. But we had an instant connection and a great conversation that I hope you'll enjoy. But regardless of my episode, if you are interested in personal growth and stories of people who have taken unconventional paths, you should definitely give Truth & Dare a listen.
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A huge thanks again to Camden for having me on, thanks to you all for listening, and I'll be back with regular Mountain & Prairie episodes in the next few days.
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https://camdenhoch.com
https://camdenhoch.com/podcast/

PART 2: Behind the Scenes with Ed - A Never-Boring, Often-Crazy Personal Journey

Emilene Ostlind is a Wyoming-based journalist and storyteller whose work focuses on the landscapes, natural resources, and communities of the American West. She may be best known for her work studying and documenting the long-distance migration of pronghorn antelope from Grand Teton National Park down into the Green River Valley—a topic that was the basis for her graduate school thesis, as well as her award-winning High Country News cover story about the "Path of the Pronghorn.” Emilene is also the editor of "Western Confluence," an amazingly informative, entertaining, and free magazine published by the University of Wyoming’s Ruckelshaus Institute of Environment and Natural Resources. And if all of that is not enough, she is also working closely on the production of an upcoming documentary called "Deer 139," which tells the story of a mule deer’s migration across Wyoming and a researcher’s attempt to follow that same path on foot.
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Emilene grew up at the base of the Big Horn Mountains in Wyoming, a third-generation Wyomingite from a family closely connected to ranching and the land. After earning her undergraduate degree from the University of Wyoming, she landed a job in Washington DC with National Geographic, where she learned first hand the power of storytelling as a means of communicating important, complex issues. She returned to the University of Wyoming for a graduate degree in creative nonfiction writing, with a focus on understanding and documenting pronghorns’ migration patterns throughout her home state. Along with photographer Joe Riis, they explored the mountains of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, shedding light on one of the lower 48’s last remaining big game migration corridors.
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If you’ve enjoyed my conversations with folks like Dan Flores and Bryce Andrews, then you’ll love this episode. We dig deep into the specifics of pronghorns and discuss why they are one of the more interesting and impressive North American mammals. We talk about how Emilene initially became interested in pronghorn migrations, and how the project began and played out over several years. We also discuss her work editing "Western Confluence" and the 2018 book "Wild Migrations." As you’d expect, we discuss her upbringing in Wyoming, her career path in storytelling, and she offers some excellent advice for aspiring journalists who’d like to follow a similar path. And of course we discuss favorite books, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to all of those—there are a lot of new titles.
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I encourage you to subscribe to "Western Confluence"—it’s totally free which is quite a deal when you consider just how much you’ll learn from reading it. 
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Episode Notes - https://mountainandprairie.com/emilene-ostlind/
"Western Confluence” - https://www.westernconfluence.org
"Wild Migrations” - https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Migrations-Atlas-Wyomings-Ungulates/dp/0870719432
"Deer 139” - https://www.deer139film.org
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:30 - Emilene’s family history in Wyoming
7:00 - Her life-long interest in storytelling
8:00 - Experience at National Geographic
12:30 - Heading back West from DC
13:30 - Genesis of pronghorn migration idea
15:00 - Applying to grad school
17:00 - "Path of the Pronghorn"
21:50 - Pronghorns explained
26:30 - Reception of “Path of the Pronghorn” by the general public
30:00 - Steps that landowners can take to help animal migrations
35:00 - Wyoming as a last major migration corridor
37:30 - "Deer 139"
41:20 - Storytelling through film
44:45 - Western Confluence
50:00 - Mentors, heroes, and books
53:30 - "Wild Migrations”
56:40 - Advice to aspiring storytellers
59:45 - Favorite books about the West
1:01:00 - Favorite films
1:02:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience
1:03:40 - Favorite location in the West
`1:05:00 - Best advice she’s ever received
1:06:15 - Request of the listeners
1:07:40 - Connect with Emilene

Emilene Ostlind - Storytelling for the New West

William deBuys is a renowned writer and conservationist farmer who is known as one of the most influential thinkers in the modern-day American West. To call Bill prolific would be a blatant understatement—a few of his many books include “The Walk,” “A Great Aridness,” “River of Traps,” and “The Last Unicorn.” For more than 40 years, Bill has owned and tended a small farm in the Sangre de Cristo mountains of northern New Mexico, a property that has heavily influenced his life, work, and appreciation for land. I was fortunate enough to meet Bill at his farm for this interview, which was a thrill and an experience I won’t soon forget.
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Bill was born and raised on the east coast but moved to New Mexico after college to take a job as a research assistant with writer Robert Coles. Bill found himself immersed in the arid landscape of the American Southwest and very quickly fell in love with the people, culture, and terrain. From then on, Bill’s life and work centered around the land, whether earning his Ph.D., working for the Nature Conservancy and The Conservation Fund, or pursuing full-time writing. His life serves as an inspiring case study of how to meld on-the-ground conservation work with high-level aspirational writing and journalism.
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My biggest challenge with this conversation was figuring out how to fit five hours of questions into a single hour! We start by discussing how Bill ended up in New Mexico, and then chat a good bit about his farm. We discuss lessons learned from his work in land conservation, and techniques he uses to find common ground among competing stakeholders. We talk a lot about his writing process and routine, including Bill's excellent advice related to the technical and psychological aspects of writing. We also discuss several of his books, and how writing each book has influenced his perspective and appreciation for his beloved New Mexico home. Bill offers up a useful and completely unique technique for summoning gratitude, a practice I believe we all can benefit from. And as usual, we discuss his favorite books, his favorite location in the West, and the best advice he ever received.
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It was a dream come true to spend time with Bill at his farm, so I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Be sure the check the episode notes for links to everything we discussed!
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http://williamdebuys.com
Notes & Resources: https://mountainandprairie.com/william-debuys/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:30 - El Valle, New Mexico, described
5:45 - How Bill ended up in New Mexico
10:30 - Work with The Nature Conservancy and The Conservation Fund
12:30 - Lessons learned from conservation work
14:30 - Early writing experience
15:25 - Looking back at old work
16:30 - Understanding and appreciating “place”
19:45 - How Bill wrote “The Walk”
22:15 - Dealing with feedback on his writing
23:15 - The writer’s mindset
24:30 - Bill’s writing process
29:00 - Decision to focus mostly on writing
30:15 - Discussion of his book “A Great Aridness”
34:25 - Actionable ideas for dealing with climate change
38:00 - Valles Caldera Trust
42:00 - Techniques for finding common grounds
45:30 - “The Last Unicorn” and other international adventures
46:50 - Influentials writers and thinkers
49:00 - Teaching and its influence on his work
51:00 - Favorite books
53:00 - Practice of writing down all the “aunts and uncles”
55:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience
56:10 - Threats to ANWR and the Rio Grand corridor
59:25 - Favorite location in the West
59:30 - Best advice ever received

William deBuys - Sage of the Southwest

This episode is a special recording from a Mountain & Prairie live podcast in Bozeman, Montana. On August 30th more than 300 folks gathered at the historic Ellen Theatre in downtown Bozeman to watch, listen, and participate in a wide-ranging conversation with four amazing women of the West—hat-maker and farmer Cate Havstad; silversmith and all-around artist Jillian Lukiwski; adventure photographer and writer Becca Skinner; and rancher and county commissioner Juanita Vero. We also held a raffle that benefited the Montana Land Reliance and the critical conservation work it is doing throughout the state of Montana.
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The show started out with a hilarious, high-energy welcome from the amazing Becca Frucht, who is one of the funniest and most unique human beings I’ve ever met. Then I spent about an hour and fifteen minutes asking the women questions about their lives, work, and shared love of western landscapes. After that, we had some excellent questions from the audience, followed by a few words from the Jessie Weisse from the Montana Land Reliance. As you’ll hear, a good bit of our conversation centered around the land, conservation, and agriculture, so it was very fitting that the Montana Land Reliance was such an important part of the evening. My only complaint about the event is that I wish it could’ve been much longer—as you’d expect, we only scratched the surface of all the fascinating topics we could’ve discussed.
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A heartfelt thank you to Cate, Jillian, Becca, and Juanita for being so open, thoughtful, and funny with all of their answers—the evening would not have been even a fraction of the success it was without their participation. Thanks to Becca Frucht for her energizing welcome and for figuring out a way to work Road House into her remarks. Thank you to the Montana Land Reliance for all of their important work throughout the state and for being part of the evening. A huge thanks to our sponsors—Chris Dombrowski Fly Fishing, Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Onda Wellness, Modern Huntsman, Beargrass Writing Retreat, Heyday, Head West Bozeman, and Big Agnes. And last but definitely not least, thanks to everyone who attended the event—I know we had people travel to Bozeman from many other states and even Canada for the show, so I can’t thank you all enough for being such important members of this podcast community.
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It was truly a night to remember, and I’m excited to do more live shows in 2020, so stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, enjoy this audio version of the Mountain & Prairie Podcast, live in Bozeman!
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Notes and photos: https://mountainandprairie.com/bozeman-live/
MLR: http://mtlandreliance.org
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:30 - Welcome from the great Becca Frucht
8:30 - A few words from Ed
11:30 - Quick intros
13:00 - Update on Cate’s involvement in farming
15:30- Juanita’s entrance into county politics
20:00 - Jillian’s evolving connection to her place
21:00 - Becca’s immersion in private land conservation
27:30 - Juanita’s thoughts on private land conservation
32:00 - Jillian discusses the importance of hard work and adventure in wild places
35:30 - Cate discusses the business realities of farming
44:00 - Jillian and Becca talk about “putting herself out there”
47:30 - Using social media productively
50:00 - Other places the ladies would choose to live
55:30 - Best books read in the past year
1:01:30 - How their husbands/partners bolster them as individuals
1:06:30 - Jillian’s “Big Enough Theory”
1:12:00 - Q&A - Mentors and mentoring
1:17:00 - Q&A - Roots to the past in the women’s trades
1:20:30 - Q&A - Role of horses in the ladies lives
1:28:00 - Q&A - Balancing development and conservation in Montana
1:35:30 - Q&A - How do we connect people with their food
1:40:15 - A few words from the Montana Land Reliance

Live in Bozeman - Cate Havstad, Jillian Lukiwski, Becca Skinner & Juanita Vero

Duke Phillips IV is the Chief Operating Officer of Ranchlands, a Colorado-based ranching and ranch management company that is widely celebrated for its deep conservation ethic. Duke oversees all operations across Ranchlands’ properties, which include the renowned 87,000-acre Chico Basin Ranch and the 103,000-acre Medano Zapata Ranch. Working closely with his father Duke III and his sister Tess, the Duke and his family share a commitment to long-term land stewardship, and they embody the Ranchlands philosophy of “Working together to live with the land.”
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As part of a multi-generational ranching family in southeastern Colorado, Duke grew up with one foot in the ranching culture and the other in a more traditional life of school, sports, and typical childhood activities. After college, he decided to return to the family business, where he began to work his way up through the ranks to his current role of COO.  Along the way, he learned lessons in leadership, humility, conservation, stockmanship, and business, many of which he shares with me during this conversation. Duke is one of the more humble and understated people I’ve met, especially when considering all that he’s accomplished so early into his career.
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I met Duke out at the Chico where we sat around his kitchen table and chatted-- and it was truly a delightful conversation. We talked about the operations at their ranches, delving into some of the details around their breed of cattle, the Beefmaster.  We discussed the apprentice and intern programs at Ranchlands, and why he and his family value teaching and educating both the general public and the next generation of land stewards. We discussed Duke’s thoughts on leadership and the importance of being humble and calm in all situations. He also explains Ranchlands open gate policy, and how that philosophy differs from some of the conventional wisdom around access to land in the West. We also discuss books, his heroes and mentors, flying helicopters, lessons learned from living and working internationally, and much more.
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Finally, I wanted to mention that Ranchlands will be honored at Palmer Land Trust’s 10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards on October 3rd in Colorado Springs. We’ll be debuting a short film about the Phillips family that highlights some of their innovative conservation work throughout the state. If you’re interested in attending, follow the link in the episode notes for more information. I guarantee it will be an inspiring and fun evening.
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There are many important lessons to be learned from this conversation with Duke-- check the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed.  Hope you enjoy!
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https://mountainandprairie.com/duke-phillips-iv/
https://www.palmerlandtrust.org/2019-scca
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:30 - Background on Chico Basin
6:00 - Chico Basin’s open gate policy
8:00 - Education and birding programs on the ranch
11:15 - Background on open gate policy
14:00 - Beefmaster cattle breed
19:00 - Ideal characteristics of the Beefmaster breed
22:15 - Good books about grazing and ranching
23:30 - How travel and education have shaped their business
25:00 - Finishing high school and starting college
28:00 - Choice to study liberal arts
30:00 - Internship and apprentice program
34:00 - Traits Duke looks for in employees
40:00 - Duke’s evolution as a leader
42:00 - Importance of good communication
44:00 - Heroes and mentors
49:00 - Importance of being positive
54:00 - Importance of controlling anger
56:30 - Favorite books
59:00 - Flying helicopters and planes
1:01:30 - Using helicopters in ranching
1:03:10 - Most powerful outdoor experience
1:07:30 - Favorite place in the West

Duke Phillips IV - Living with the Land

Duke Phillips III is the founder and CEO of Ranchlands, a Colorado-based, family-owned ranch management company. If Ranchlands sounds familiar, that’s because last week’s episode was with Duke’s son, Duke Phillips IV. You may remember that the younger Duke referenced his father’s philosophies around business and leadership several times, so I thought it would be fun to have the elder Duke on the podcast for an in-depth conversation. And in-depth it was—in a little under an hour we covered a wide range of subjects, everything from the future of ranching to world travels to poetry.
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Duke has led a fascinating life, starting with his early years spent growing up on a remote cattle ranch in rural Mexico. His twenties were devoted to traveling and working around the world, including places like Europe, Central America, Australia, and the Bering Sea. Around age thirty he started his first “real job” in ranching, which eventually led to the formation of his company Ranchlands. Since its beginnings over two decades ago, Ranchlands has set a new standard what is possible when ranching, conservation, education, and business are successfully combined. And Ranchlands partnership with Colorado’s State Land Board is a case study in effective, mutually beneficial public-private partnerships.
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I caught up with Duke on the phone, where he was gracious enough to take time away from one of his New Mexico operations to chat with me. We started by talking about his childhood in Mexico and the lessons he learned from growing up in such a wild and remote landscape. Then we discussed the series of travels and jobs that led to his founding Ranchlands in his mid-forties. From there, our conversation hits on a variety of subjects, including the joys of working with his kids, Duke III and Tess, the ins-and-outs of the bison ranching business, and his thoughts on the recent popularity of regenerative agriculture. There’s minimal overlap between the topics covered in this conversation and my conversation with young Duke, so be sure to check the episode notes for a full list of all the interesting information discussed.
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Palmer Land Trust will be honoring Duke and his family at the 10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards on October 3rd in Colorado Springs. It’s going to be a fun and inspiring evening, so follow the link in the episode notes for more information and tickets.  Hope to see you there!
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Enjoy the podcast!
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https://www.palmerlandtrust.org/2019-scca
Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/duke-phillips-iii/
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:30 - Where Duke grew up
6:30 - Lessons learned from growing up in Mexico
8:30 - Having patience with those new to ranching
9:45 - Leaving Mexico
11:50 - World travels and adventures in his 20s
14:30 - First “real job”
15:45 - Lead-up to Chico Basin
17:00 - Ranchlands explained
22:00- Ranchlands’ grazing philosophy
26:00 - Joys of working with Tess and Duke IV
27:30 - Keys to running a successful family business
29:30 - Keeping kids humble
31:20 - Importance of positivity in life and business
35:00 - Importance of honesty in business
37:40 - Successful partnerships with Colorado’s State Board and The Nature Conservancy
41:30 - Running a bison ranch
45:00 - Regenerative agriculture
48:30 - Heroes and mentors
52:00 - The future of ranching
54:00 - Favorite books and poetry
56:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience

Duke Phillips III - A Vision for the New West

Interviews with innovators of the American West. Guests include ranchers, writers, athletes, artists, adventurers, conservationists, entrepreneurs—anyone who’s doing inspired work that contributes to the region’s evolving and complex cultural fabric. Through informal yet substantive conversations, conservationist Ed Roberson introduces you to these fascinating characters, giving you a better understanding of their careers, influences, and outlooks, as well as a deeper appreciation for life in the American West.

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