Ep 23: Whiteness and how to talk about it - Eugene Ellis is the founder and director of the Black, African and Asian Therapy Network, the UK's largest independent organisation working therapeutically with Black, Africa, Caribbean and South Asian people. In this episode, we discuss his new book “The race conversation: an essential guide to creating life changing dialogue”, the challenges in talking about race and how to find your voice.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Eugene Ellis

Ep 25: Whiteness and coalition - Emma Dabiri is an Irish-Nigerian activist, broadcaster and academic - Her latest book “What white people can do next: from allyship to coalition” has been described as “as though it’s written by the love child of James Connolly and Audre Lorde”- she joins me to discuss anti-racism vs liberation, the invention of whiteness and why the revolution won’t be instagram-lived.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Emma Dabiri

Ep 27: Whiteness and migrants – The UK depends on migrants for many of our key services, from food to transport, and of course the National Health Service. And yet, immigration is often rated as Britain’s ‘most important issue’ with almost half of Brits favouring less of it, a serious cleavage point since Brexit. Dr Suzanne Hall is Associate Professor in Sociology at the LSE and an interdisciplinary urban scholar. Her work connects the asymmetries of global migration and urban marginalisation, exploring the racialised frameworks of citizenship and economic inequality and their everyday contestations. She is also the author of the recently released  “The Migrant’s paradox: street livelihoods and marginal citizenship in Britain” – She joins me to discuss whiteness and migration.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Dr Suzanne Hall

Ep 32: Nice Racism - Her book ‘White Fragility’ kicked off heated debates on how we think about white responses to racism and sparked an international conversation on whiteness. Now she's back with a new book, already causing a stir, entitled “Nice racism”. For this episode, we welcome back anti-racism scholar, educator and NYT bestselling author,  Dr Robin di-Angelo to talk about what she wants to add to the whiteness conversation .

We Need To Talk About Whiteness  - with Dr Robin DiAngelo

Ep 36: Whiteness and psychiatry - Dr. Aruna Khilanani is a forensic psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, whose speech at Yale university, "The Psychopathic Problem of the White Mind", gained global attention after this quote was made public and sensationalised: "I had fantasies of unloading a revolver into the head of any white person that got in my way, burying their body and wiping my bloody hands as I walked away, relatively guiltless with a bounce in my step". She joins me to discuss the fallout, violence in the unconscious mind, and how the media turns victims of racism into aggressors to hide from the reality of whiteness.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - With Dr Aruna Khilanani

ep 44: Whiteness is a dangerous idea - Robert P. Baird is a freelance writer and editor, who has held editorial positions at The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Esquire, and Harper’s Magazine, and has a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago. His recent Guardian Long Read titled: “The invention of whiteness: the long history of a dangerous idea” delves into the history and more recent understandings of whiteness and how the term's growing usage hasn't always yielded the results many white liberals had hoped.  He joins me to talk whiteness as religion, how whiteness has evolved, and whether there is such a thing as 'detoxified' white identity.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Bobby Baird

Ep 52: Whiteness and Black Consciousness - Lewis R. Gordon is an Afro-Jewish philosopher, political thinker, educator, and musician, &  Professor and Head of the Department of Philosophy at UCONN-Storrs in the United States.  Author of several books, he joins me to talk about Black consciousness, whiteness as narcissism, radical love, and his latest book “Fear of Black Consciousness”.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - With Lewis R. Gordon

Ep59: Whiteness and terminology - The language we use and the unease many of us feel in finding the right words speaks, at least in part, to the difficulties in using the categories of meaning we intend to subvert for the act of subversion. To discuss this linguistic minefield, I’m joined by two women who’ve been working on the first ever “Blacktionary”.  Maggie Semple OBE is a businesswoman and entrepreneur. She was instrumental in creating the Black British Voices survey and is co-author with coach, trainer and mentor Jane Oremosu of “My Little Black Book”, which aims to help people navigate the language of race and find the ‘right’ words. We talk about knowing what to say, who has the authority to decide and the limits of “Diversity and Inclusion”.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with  Maggie Semple & Jane Oremosu

Ep 60: Whiteness and words -  multiple award winning writer and author of the bestselling book 'Sprache und Sein' ('Speaking and Being' 
 Kübra Gümüşay is founder of several award winning campaigns and organisations - she joins me to talk about how language shapes our world - and its limits, the cages created by words and how to break out of those boxes.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Kubra Gumusay

Ep 62: Whiteness and the patriarchy - Award-winning columnist, international public speaker on Arab and Muslim issues and global feminism based in Cairo and New York - feminist icon Mona Eltahawy joins me for this LIVE recording at the Bradford Literary Festival to talk whiteness and feminist resistance, how racism fuelled the US abortion ban and her commitment to F*** the patriarchy, in all its shades.

WARNING: Strong Language throughout

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Mona Eltahawy - LIVE

Ep 63: Whiteness and white antiracism - In this episode, I'm joined by the authors of a new book which “invites White people to talk about race with one another in ways that are generative, sustaining, and lead to real change.” Starting from the words of James Baldwin and Toni Morrison that ‘racism is a White person problem’ the authors say it’s time for  White people to see how it hurts them too—and to start to do something about it. Ali Michael is the co-founder and co-director of the Race Institute for K-12 Educators, and the author of Raising Race Questions: Whiteness, Inquiry and Education (2015), winner of the 2017 Society of Professors of Education Outstanding Book Award. and Eleonora Bartoli is a clinical psychologist specializing in trauma, resilience-building, and multicultural/social justice counseling –their book is “Our Problem, Our Path: Collective Antiracism for White People.” We talk the pitfalls of white people leading antiracism initiatives, the psychology of racism and the challenges to change.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Ali Michael and Eleonora Bartoli

ep 64: Whiteness and the racial code -  Nichola Rollock is Professor of Social Policy and Race at King’s College London,  a government adviser and a widely read contributor to publications including Guardian, the FT and Vogue. She is now also the author of a new book “The Racial Code: tales of resistance and survival.” She joins me to educational attainment gaps, race in the workplace and naviguating the rules of whiteness.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - With Prof Nicola Rollock

Ep 65: Whiteness and maculinity - Yomi Sode is an award-winning Nigerian British writer. He was shortlisted for The Brunel International African Poetry Prize 2021 and his acclaimed one-man show COAT, recently toured nationally to sold-out audiences. His latest book "Manorism" explores the lives of Black British men and boys through poetry. He joins me to talk masculinity, pop culture and having your own lexicon...

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Yomi Ṣode

Ep66: The Stories of Whiteness - A third-generation Japanese-American essayist, poet and fiction writer, David Mura has written intimately about his life and the connections between race, culture and history. In this episode, he joins me to about his latest book, 'The Stories Whiteness tells itself', as we examine the embeddedness of white supremacy within American culture and the stories America tells itself to avoid confronting it.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with David Mura

Ep67: Whiteness and power - Suzanne Alleyne is a self coined 'cultural thinker' and founder of consultancy Alleyne&. Her groundbreaking research project 'Neurology of PowerTM', asks where power resides in the brain and body.  She joins me to talk about  empathy and privilege, power and the body, and the importance of recognising the physical as well as cultural impact of power on the very structure of our minds.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Suzanne Alleyne

EP68: Whiteness and 'racial reckoning' - Eve Fairbanks is an award winning writer and the author of a new book “The Inheritors: An Intimate Portrait of South Africa's Racial Reckoning” which explores what happened when a white supremacist state is overturned by the previously dispossessed. She joins me to discuss whiteness in post-apartheid South Africa, naviguating away from the white supremacist order, and racial reckoning.

*apologies in advance for some audio issues aka echoing

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Eve Fairbanks

Ep69: Whiteness and art curation - Samenua Sesher is the Founder and Director of the Museum of Colour, the UK’s foremost arts and heritage digital enterprise.The Museum is focused on  the creative journeys of British people of colour and has as its mission to present a continually evolving online repository of once-forgotten wisdom. She joins to talk omitted heritages, the 'slave Bible' and why decentering whiteness is so vital for artists.

Please note: These Things Matter: Empire, Exploitation and Everyday Racism is currently on show at The Bodleian Libraries until 19/2/23

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Samenua Sesher

Ep70: Whiteness and culture - author, broadcaster and educator Jeffrey Boakye spent 15y in the education sector. He now provides training for schools, universities and businesses on race, identity, masculinity and education. He joins me to talk about re-telling the story of Britain through musical history, how to talk about race better and the impact of enduring perceptions of black masculinity.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Jeffrey Boakye

Ep 71: Whiteness and the whitelash - Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, and author of a new book “American Whitelash”,  Wesley Lowery joins Myriam Francois to talk the whitelash, covering racist politics and what the history of white supremacy tells us about our current juncture.

We Ned To Talk About Whiteness - with Wesley Lowery

Ep72: Whiteness and its making - Dr. Carmen Thompson is a historian and author, and a highly sought out expert on Race and Whiteness in America whose scholarship has been quoted in historic court judgements in the US. She joins me to discuss her new book "The Making of American Whiteness: The Formation of Race in Seventeenth- Century Virginia".

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Carmen Thompson

Ep 73: What's in a name? Journalist, academic and ex-TV producer Sheela Banerjee's discusses names and what they signify to society - in her new book, she takes us from the fight against racism in Britain, from Jamaica in the 60s to pre-Revolutionary Russia, each time exploring how a name contains centuries of history and acts as a portal to other worlds. So what IS in a name...? and what do we lose when we change them...

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Sheela Banerjee

Episode 1 - White fragility - She's an American academic, lecturer, and author working in the fields of critical discourse analysis and whiteness studies - her book "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" has been a US bestseller and provoked an uncomfortable conversation in the USA on what it means to be white. And for Episode No1 of the "We need to talk about Whiteness Podcast", Dr Robin DiAngelo joins me for a conversation about how the term is slowly gaining currency in the UK, whether it is transferable, from a US context and why these conversations continue to feel so thorny. Enjoy!

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Robin DiAngelo

Episode 2 - The whiteness of science - In this episode, I'm joined by science journalist and author Angela Saini, to discuss the cultural pillars of whiteness, off the back of her most recent book "Superior: The Return of Race Science" in which she tells the disturbing story of the persistent thread of belief in biological racial differences in the world of science. Many of the myths around the biological differences between humans along racial lines continue to inform people's world views today, including among some very 'imminent' scientists... so how does the science of whiteness contribute to the story of whiteness and what does the persistence of these myths tell us about the true state of 'progress' when it comes to equality...

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Angela Saini

Episode 3  - The Whiteness of History - You may know her from her legendary tweets and her powerful anti-racism stance - Dr Priyamvada Gopal is 'Reader in Anglophone and Related Literature' at the University of Cambridge  - an academic and contributor to public debates over racial inequality and the legacy of empire, her latest book "Insurgent Empire" (Verso, 2019) presents how Britain’s enslaved and colonial subjects were  - contrary to enduring depictions - active agents in their own liberation. In fact, she argues, they shaped British ideas of freedom and emancipation back in the United Kingdom. 
Dr Gopal has previously discussed white fragility, stating that a "way of deflecting engagement with race is to personalise matters" and in October this year (2019), she criticised the UK's Equality and Human Rights Commission’s Report, 'Tackling racial harassment: universities challenged' for failing to address the systemic disadvantages faced by BME students or how whiteness dominates power structures and pedagogy. Here we we talk about the legacy of colonial modes of thinking, empire state of mind and just how helpful whiteness can be to the prickly conversations around racism in the UK.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Dr Priyamvada Gopal

Episode 4  - White psychosis - British academic Prof Kehinde Andrews is professor of Black Studies at Birmingham City University, the director of the Centre for Critical Social Research, founder of the Organisation of Black Unity, and co-chair of the Black Studies Association. In this episode we discuss his recent narration of the film "The Psychosis of Whiteness", a study of society's perceptions of race and racism, directed by Eugene Nulman, as well as whiteness as a protective mechanism, global inequality as white supremacy, his upcoming book "Empire 2:0" and whether people identified as white can ever overcome the psychosis of whiteness...

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Prof Kehinde Andrews

Episode 5 - Should we talk about whiteness? - Ayishat Akanbi is a fashion stylist, writer, cultural commentator and artist based in London, UK. Aside from being a trend-setter who dresses the artist Koffee - amazing - Ayishat has amassed a different type of following through her always insightful, often provocative online presence, where she challenges many of the assumptions and dogmas of modern 'woke' culture. 

In this episode, Ayishat shares some of her reservations about current conversations on race and tells me whether she thinks whiteness is a necessary or possibly - unhelpful - means of challenging racial inequalities. Beyond the facts of history and more current statistics, there is human psychology at play in the power dynamics underpinning racism- and Ayishat shares her insights on whether the whiteness conversation is truly a productive one for us all.

We Need to Talk About whiteness - with Ayishat Akanbi

Episode 6 - White and Muslim - Dr Myriam Francois is joined by poet and writer Medina Tenour Whiteman, author of "The Invisible Muslim" to discuss race, whiteness and Islam. How do race and religion intersect and what does a Muslim subjectivity contribute to the conversation on whiteness?

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Medina Tenour Whiteman

Episode 8 - The whiteness of philosophy - Minna Salami is  is the author of 'Sensuous Knowledge: A Black Feminist Approach for Everyone', and the founder of award-winning blog 'Ms Afropolitan'. In this episode, she joins Dr Myriam Francois to discuss whiteness in philosophy.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Minna Salami

Episode 12: Whiteness and sex - Habeeb Akande is a writer, sex educator, and author of 'Kunyaza: The Secret to Female Pleasure.' In this episode, he joins Dr Myriam Francois to explore whiteness and sex - how has white normativity affected how we think about sex and pleasure? And what has it shielded many if us from understanding, about other cultures and belief systems approach intimacy and sensuality?

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Habeeb Akande

Ep 19: Whiteness and UK BLM - Dr Adam Elliott-Cooper is an organiser with UK BLM and a researcher in Applied Sociology at the University of Greenwich, whose research focuses on policing and anti-racism. In this episode, we explore the relationship between Britishness and whiteness, UK BLM and the campaign to defund the police.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Dr Adam Elliott Cooper

Ep 20: Whiteness and denial - Dr Gauthier Marchais is a French Research Fellow at the Institute of Development Studies, at the University of Sussex, where he works on social transformation in contexts of violent conflict. He is the author of ‘Le Deni Blanc: Penser autrement la question raciale’ aka White Denial: How to think differently about the question of race, published in January 2021 in French and soon to be published in English under the title “Leaving the White House”.

We Need To Talk About Whiteness - with Dr Gauthier Marchais

Hosted by Dr Myriam Francois, the "We Need To Talk About Whiteness Podcast" aims to explore the meaning of 'whiteness' in conversations around race and racism - what is whiteness? and does it matter? Each week, I'm joined by a new guest offering up their insights on whiteness, from comedy to film, sex and science. Join us!

myriam francois

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