In April, President Biden announced he would withdraw all U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Within months, Afghanistan’s capital, Kabul, fell to the Taliban. The Biden administration’s evacuation of Americans and Afghan allies has drawn sharp criticism from Democrats and Republicans, including one of this week’s guests, Representative Peter Meijer (R-MI-3). But Meijer is also a critic of America’s twenty-year war in Afghanistan, something he shares with our second guest, Representative Ro Khanna (D-CA-17). On this week’s episode of , you’ll listen to our conversations from back in May with Representatives Meijer and Khanna, conversations which help us reflect on the current debate over America’s global role. As the heartbreaking events in Afghanistan unfold, their reflections on how the U.S. has found itself perpetually at war can serve as a guide for current and future policymakers who wish to avoid the mistakes of the last twenty years. These two Congressmen agree on very little, but are united in their belief of a less interventionist U.S. foreign policy.&nbsp; Congressman Ro Khanna represents California’s 17th congressional district in the United States House of Representatives. He sits on the House Armed Services Committee and is the Congressional Progressive Caucus Vice-Chair. Congressman Peter Meijer represents Michigan’s 3rd congressional district in the United States House of Representatives and is a veteran of the Iraq War. He also sits on the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. Additional:  (NowThis and Eurasia Group Foundation, June 9, 2021) &nbsp;

Episode 11: Unlikely Alliance

Instability in the Democratic Republic of the Congo has been making headlines in Western newspapers for months. Since the fall of Mobuto Sese Seko’s 30 year dictatorship in 1997, the cobalt rich Congo has dealt with civil war, insurgencies from bordering nations, and government corruption. But before Mobuto, there was another charismatic leader.&nbsp;  Patrice Lumumba, the first prime minister of the independent Democratic Republic of the Congo, was ousted, imprisoned, and eventually assassinated thanks to CIA intervention. It would be the first time a US president greenlighted the assassination of a foreign head of state. In this episode of None Of The Above, the ’ Mark Hannah sits down with executive editor of Foreign Affairs Stuart Reid to discuss his new book  and the legacy of wanton intervention.

Targeting Lumumba: Stuart Reid on the CIA-backed Destabilization of the Congo

It’s always difficult to gather and verify information in times of armed conflict. But recently that task has gotten much harder. From Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza, journalists and consumers alike are inundated with intentionally misleading images, information, and narratives. The media ecosystem has become increasingly treacherous, with old photos and quotations taken out of their original context and offered as evidence in conflicts today. In this episode of None Of The Above, the&nbsp;’ Mark Hannah sits down with Dr. Claire Wardle, an expert on misinformation, and Steven Lee Myers, a veteran foreign and national security correspondent for The New York Times currently covering misinformation. Together they discuss how misinformation and disinformation spread, and the challenges they pose for accessing accurate information in times of conflict.

Information Battleground: Disinformation in War with Claire Wardle and Steven Lee Myers

Next month will mark two years since Russia invaded Ukraine after amassing over 100,000 troops at the border. As we look ahead, we ask: What has victory in Ukraine come to symbolize for the Biden administration’s foreign policy? Are Ukraine and its partners making full use of diplomacy to bring an end to the war? And how might the 2024 Presidential election shift the conversation around US interests in Ukraine?&nbsp; In this episode of None Of The Above, the ’ Mark Hannah consults with Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation and Alex Ward, national security reporter and anchor of POLITICO’s “National Security Daily” newsletter. They discuss the trajectory of the war, how President Biden and his team have approached it, and the stakes involved for all parties. &nbsp;

Ukraine at Two Years: Sam Charap and Alex Ward on US Aid and Interests

Last month the International Court of Justice ordered Israel to take measures to prevent acts of genocide, and protect the human rights of Gazans. Almost everything about the case has generated controversy, from South Africa’s invocation of the Genocide Convention to the court’s decision not to order a ceasefire. In this episode of None Of The Above, the&nbsp;’ Mark Hannah sits down with Kenneth Roth, who was executive director of Human Rights Watch for more than 30 years, and Dr. Mia Swart, an expert in international law, transitional justice, and human rights law. They share their perspectives on this landmark case, the role of South Africa and the United States in upholding international law, and the challenges of enforcement.

The Case Against Israel: South Africa's Genocide Suit at the World Court

The Houthis continue to attack commercial vessels in the Red Sea amid Israel’s assault in Gaza. This Yemen-based political and military organization says its disruption of international shipping is a response to Western support for Israel. It likely also hopes its attacks will revitalize flailing domestic support within war-torn Yemen.&nbsp; The United States is no stranger to the Houthis. Since the start of Yemen’s civil war in 2014, Washington has backed a Saudi-led coalition fighting the Iran-backed organization. More recently, the United States has launched airstrikes against the Houthis to try to deter future Red Sea attacks — though President Biden  the bombing to be ineffective. In this episode of None of the Above, the ’ Mark Hannah sits down with Alexandra Stark to help us better understand the Houthis, the illogic of America’s approach to Yemen, and the lessons for dealing with the Houthis in the future. Alexandra Stark is an associate policy researcher at the RAND Corporation. Her research focuses on Middle East security and cooperation. Prior to that she was a senior researcher at New America. Her book, The Yemen Model: Why US Policy Has Failed in the Middle East is set for release in April by Yale University Press. Show Notes  Alexandra Stark, “,” (Foreign Affairs, January 11, 2024) Alexandra Stark,&nbsp; (Yale University Press, 2024)  &nbsp; &nbsp;

Who are the Houthis? Inside America's Undeclared Air War

In December 2023, South Africa brought human rights law into the fold of the Israel-Hamas war when it filed a genocide case against Israel in the World Court. South Africa’s unprecedented move sparked conversation surrounding the line between collateral damage and indiscriminate bombing campaigns. In this extended cut of a recent episode of None of the Above, the&nbsp;’ Mark Hannah sits down with Kenneth Roth, who was executive director of Human Rights Watch for more than three decades. He shares his perspectives on Israeli violence enacted against Gazans, South Africa’s arguments to the World Court, the legal application of genocide, and international law.

Bonus Episode: Israel’s Complicated Relationship with Human Rights

Many have argued that NATO, the transatlantic alliance forged at the dawn of the Cold War, is merely a vestige of another era. But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine thrust NATO back into the spotlight, and reignited debates about the value and strategic imperatives of America’s alliances. With a distinguished career of over three decades in the United States Navy, Admiral James Stavridis (Ret.) was the 16th Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. He oversaw operations in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and the Balkans. He has since become an author of 10 nonfiction books and two novels.&nbsp; In this episode, Admiral Stavridis talks about his motivations for venturing into the world of fiction, and the value of his novels as cautionary tales about the threats facing the nation. Drawing on historical parallels and his professional experience, he offers lessons for foreign policy leaders, discusses the value of NATO, and explores the transformative impact of technology on warfare. &nbsp;

Anchored Insight: Admiral James Stavridis on Fiction, History, and Service

From the Crimean War of 1853 to Russia’s war inUkraine, journalists, reporters, and the media have shaped the public’s understanding of war. But do the stories we read and the photos we see provide an impartial picture of the wars they document? As the ’  explained in his 2022 , certain aspects of American war coverage—reliance on government sources and incentives to simplify geopolitics as battles between good and evil—have long compelled news organizations to tilt toward military action. In this archival episode of None Of The Above, host of WNYC’s On The Media  and , are interviewed by Mark at the . Together, in these excerpts from that conversation, they unpack the media’s coverage of the Russia-Ukraine War and the biases which influence how the media understand and depict these conflicts.

War Stories (from the archive)

Haiti has been in a state of political uncertainty since its president, Jovenel Moïse, was assassinated two years ago. Ariel Henry assumed power with the backing of the US – but not of most Haitians – and promptly suspended elections. Competing gangs jockeyed for political power, and have seized control of the capital city Port-au-Prince. The proposed solution – a United Nations security mission led by Kenya and a US-backed transitional government that lacks domestic legitimacy – threatens to recreate the mistakes of the past. In this episode of None Of The Above, ’ Mark Hannah sits down with Dan Foote, who was America’s special envoy for Haiti until he resigned in protest of US policy there. They discuss the island’s recent history, the role of international intervention, and the urgent need to rebuild Haitians’ trust in their democracy.

Hubris in Haiti: Ambassador Dan Foote on Learning from America’s Failures

In the aftermath of 9/11, America’s political leaders lept to action based on, what turned out to be, a series of misplaced and untested assumptions. From conflations between the Taliban and Al Qaeda to misguided theories about nation building, these assumptions drove two decades of policy failure in Afghanistan. Critical missteps came with a human cost for both American soldiers and Afghan civilians. In this episode of None Of The Above, s Mark Hannah sits down with Michael Cohen and Monica Duffy Toft of the  to analyze the key beliefs and decisions that shaped America’s longest war.

The Hell of Bad Assumptions: Lessons from Afghanistan

As the United States confronts an ever-changing set of international challenges, our foreign policy leaders continue to offer the same old answers. But what are the alternatives? In None of the Above, the Eurasia Group Foundation’s (EGF) Mark Hannah asks leading global thinkers for new answers and new ideas to guide an America increasingly adrift in the world.

Episode 11: Unlikely Alliance

None of the Above

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