In this first episode, we wanted to give you a taste of what it takes to become a barrister and there seemed no better way than by introducing you to Ubah Dirie, junior barrister and recipient of an Access to the Bar Award. Ubah told us about her journey to the Bar – from her first steps taking part in activities in Middle Temple, to the rewards of her pro bono work. 

One of the first things you need when setting off, is a CV. For pupillage-hunters, there are specific do’s and don’t’s. Our second guest, Ishan Kolhatkar, is a master of legal CVs and he came and spoke to us about how to compile and finesse an effective CV.

Guests in order of appearance

Ubah Dirie: barrister at the 36 Group https://36group.co.uk/members/ud 

Ishan Kolhatkar: Deputy Dean of Education Services at BPP University and barrister http://bptclecturer.com/about-me and active Twitter user @bptc_lecturer
https://twitter.com/bptc_lecturer?lang=en and blogger http://bptclecturer.com/ 

Useful Links

Access to the Bar Scheme:	 https://www.middletemple.org.uk/education-and-training/scholarships-and-prizes/access-to-the-bar-awards 

Lincoln’s Inn: https://www.lincolnsinn.org.uk/ 
Gray’s Inn: https://www.graysinn.org.uk/ 
Inner Temple: https://www.innertemple.org.uk/ 
Middle Temple: https://www.middletemple.org.uk/

Middle Temple Students’ Association (MTSA):	 https://www.middletemple.org.uk/education-and-training/middle-temple-students-association 

Middle Temple Young Barristers’ Association (MTYBA):	 https://www.middletemple.org.uk/members/inn-societies-and-groups/middle-temple-young-barristers-association 

Wondering what an effective CV looks like? Take a look at this excellent example: https://typographyforlawyers.com/resumes.html 

For further guidance on writing your CV:	 https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/cvs-and-cover-letters/how-to-write-a-cv 
_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AHX6Z164K4NTDF2BA4AV


Glossary

The Bar: The Bar of England and Wales is a term used to describe the legal profession of barristers. Barristers are known as ‘members of the Bar’. 

Benchers: Masters of the Bench, the governing body of an Inn.

Call to the Bar: the process of qualifying to become a barrister. A Call ceremony takes place at the barrister’s Inn of Court before or during the pupillage year. A barrister is called to the utter (‘outer’) bar or ‘appointed to the degree of the utter bar’ 

CV: curriculum vitae or résumé; a short, written description setting out your education, qualifications, experience and interests that you may send out when trying to obtain pupillage, mini-pupillages or further work experience.

Dinners and Dining: the traditional name for the twelve qualifying sessions that all students must undertake before being Called to the Bar. These can be dinners, advocacy weekends, lectures and other events. 

Hall: all the barristers within an Inn.

Inns of Court: the four professional associations for barristers in England and Wales. Lincoln’s Inn; Gray’s Inn; Inner Temple; and 
Middle Temple.

Marshalling: work experience shadowing a judge.

Master Treasurer: non-Executive Chair of the Inn – an annual appointment.

Pro Bono: coming from the Latin ‘Pro bono publico’ meaning ‘for the public good’, pro bono is unpaid voluntary work. Many barristers and students undertake pro bono work offering their professional skills to provide services to those who are unable to afford them.

Pupillage: a year’s apprenticeship in a barristers’ chambers, part of qualifying to become a fully-fledged barrister. 

QC: Queen’s Counsel – an award for excellence in advocacy in the higher courts. Those who become QCs are also known as ‘silks’. The title depends on the sex of the sovereign and during the reign of a king, QCs will become ‘King’s Counsel’ or ‘KCs’.

Silk: a colloquialism meaning Queen’s Counsel – the term comes from the silk gowns traditionally worn by QCs. ‘Taking silk’ means successfully becoming a QC.

Under Treasurer: the Chief Executive of the Inn.

Becoming a Barrister and How to Write Your CV

In today’s episode we are talking all things mini-pupillage. Mini-pupillages are short periods of work experience in barristers’ chambers and are essential for anyone seeking pupillage or considering a career at the Bar. They are the best way to see inside a set of chambers and to understand what a barrister’s practice – and life – really entails. They are also an excellent way to improve your CV.

Mini-pupillages can be hard to come by so we hear from our guests how to apply
and, when you land that precious mini, the secrets to impress and the pitfalls to
avoid. We kick off the episode asking one of the most controversial questions of all…

Guests in order of appearance

Cathryn McGahey QC: silk at Temple Garden Chambers
https://tgchambers.com/member-profile/cathryn-mcgahey-qc/

Julia Horner: Practice Director at Blackstone Chambers
https://www.blackstonechambers.com/recruitment/staff/

Alexander Robson: barrister at Littleton Chambers, co-author of The Path to
Pupillage, Harold G. Fox Scholar
http://www.littletonchambers.com/barrister/alexander-robson/

Master Ann Hussey: silk and Master of the Bench at 1 Hare Court
https://www.1hc.com/people/ann-hussey-qc/

Elaine Banton: barrister at 7 Bedford Row http://www.7br.co.uk/barrister/elaine-
banton/

Useful Links

For some further advice about mini-pupillages:
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/the-bar/mini-pupillage-vacancies
https://www.lawcareers.net/barristers/minipupillages
https://www.allaboutlaw.co.uk/law-careers/mini-pupillage

Glossary

GDL: Graduate Diploma in Law – a year’s law course for those who have not
undertaken an undergraduate law degree. Also known informally as the ‘law
conversion course’.

Law conversion course: the graduate diploma in law.

Marshalling: work experience shadowing a judge.

Mini-Pupillage: a period of work experience in a barristers’ chambers, usually a
week or less, sometimes assessed. These are generally only available to those in
their final year of a law degree or from the law conversation course onward.

QC: Queen’s Counsel – an award for excellence in advocacy in the higher courts.
Those barristers who become QCs are also known as ‘silks’. The title depends on
the sex of the sovereign and during the reign of a king, QCs will become ‘King’s
Counsel’ or ‘KCs’.

Mini-Pupillages

In today’s episode, we find out about the Inns of Court. The Inns are historic, professional associations for barristers but also, as we hear, communities of students, barristers and judges. The Inns have lots of functions but perhaps the most important is education and administering scholarships to help those who wish to become barristers.

We talk to some of the great and the good about what the Inns have meant to them and how they can help you as a student. We hear about the benefits of sponsorship and mentoring schemes, some of the scholarships on offer and about the Middle Temple associations that can help students, pupillage-seekers and junior barristers.

Guests in order of appearance:

Richard Wilmot-Smith QC: 2018 Master Treasurer of Middle Temple and practising silk at 39 Essex Chambers: https://www.39essex.com/barrister/richard-wilmot-smith-
qc/

Christa Richmond: Middle Temple’s Director of Education:
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/about-us/governance/executive-management

Michael Polak: barrister and Deputy President of MTYBA:
http://churchcourtchambers.co.uk/project/michael-polak/
@MichaelPolakLaw

Lord Justice David Bean: 2019 Master Treasurer of Middle Temple and a judge in the Court of Appeal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bean_(judge)

Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, the Right Honourable The Lord Burnett of Maldon: the Head of the Judiciary of England and Wales and the President of the Courts of England and Wales
https://www.judiciary.uk/about-the-judiciary/who-are-the-judiciary/judicial-roles/judges/lord-chief-justice/ and https://www.judiciary.uk/announcement-type/lord-burnett/

Alex Cisneros: barrister at No 5 https://www.no5.com/barristers/barrister-details/493-alex-cisneros/

Eleena Misra: barrister at Old Square Chambers http://www.oldsquare.co.uk/our-people/profile/eleena-misra

Andrew Hochhauser QC: silk and arbitrator at Essex Court and Middle Temple Bencher https://essexcourt.com/barrister/andrew-hochhauser-qc/

Elaine Banton: barrister at 7 Bedford Row http://www.7br.co.uk/barrister/elaine-
banton/

Alexander Robson: barrister at Littleton Chambers, co-author of The Path to
Pupillage, Harold G. Fox Scholar
http://www.littletonchambers.com/barrister/alexander-robson/

Michael Harwood: barrister and President of MTYBA
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-harwood-24273342/?originalSubdomain=uk and
https://twitter.com/mi_harwood?lang=en

Useful Links

https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about-the-bar/what-is-the-bar/inns-of-court/

Lincoln’s Inn: https://www.lincolnsinn.org.uk/
Gray’s Inn: https://www.graysinn.org.uk/
Inner Temple: https://www.innertemple.org.uk/
Middle Temple: https://www.middletemple.org.uk/
All these websites have lots of information about the Inns and the scholarships available.

Middle Temple Students’ Association (MTSA):
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/education-and-training/middle-temple-students-association

Middle Temple Young Barristers’ Association (MTYBA):
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/members/inn-societies-and-groups/middle-temple-young-barristers-association

Inns Mentoring and Sponsorhip Schemes:
https://www.lincolnsinn.org.uk/student-members/marshalling-and-mentoring/
https://www.graysinn.org.uk/education/student-members/mentoring-scheme
https://www.innertemple.org.uk/education/bar-professional-training-course-bptc-students/student-schemes/
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/members/student-information-and-services/sponsorship-scheme

Access to the Bar Scheme: https://www.middletemple.org.uk/education-and-
training/scholarships-and-prizes/access-to-the-bar-awards

Harold G. Fox Scholarship (administered by Middle Temple but open to members of all Inns): https://www.middletemple.org.uk/education-and-training/scholarships-and-prizes/overseas/harold-g-fox Note that this year’s deadline is 4pm 21 February 2019.

For more information on Temple Church: http://www.templechurch.com/

The Inns

The heart of a barrister’s job is advocacy – persuading others orally or in writing.
Advocacy experience is therefore crucial for anyone considering a career at the Bar. 

There are lots of different forms of advocacy available for students to try, from
debating and mooting, public speaking to pro bono. We hear from today’s guests
about all these types of advocacy experience, what their benefits are and how you can start to demonstrate your flair for advocacy. We also learn about the hidden opportunities for advocacy all around you. And what if you are battling nerves? We hear some tips from the pros.

Guests in order of appearance

James Wakefield: barrister, leader of the Council of the Inns of Court and dean of the Inns of Court College of Advocacy

Andrew Hochhauser QC: silk and arbitrator at Essex Court and Middle Temple
Bencher https://essexcourt.com/barrister/andrew-hochhauser-qc/

Alexander Robson: barrister at Littleton Chambers, co-author of The Path to
Pupillage, Harold G. Fox Scholar http://www.littletonchambers.com/barrister/alexander-robson/

Benet Brandreth QC: silk at 11 South Square, rhetoric coach and advocacy trainer
https://www.11southsquare.com/barristers/benet-brandreth/ and
https://www.benetbrandreth.com/ and on twitter as @benetbrandreth

Michael Harwood: barrister and President of MTYBA
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-harwood-24273342/?originalSubdomain=uk and on twitter @mi_harwood

Matt Ahluwalia: barrister and Justice First Fellow at the Public Law Project
https://jff.thelegaleducationfoundation.org/fellow/matthew-ahluwalia/

Useful Links

Debating:
https://www.cus.org/members/debating/what-debating
https://www.greatdebaters.co.uk/
and for school students: https://www.parliament.uk/education/teaching-resources-
lesson-plans/get-debating-/ and https://www.esu.org/our-work/schools-mace

English Speaking Union: https://www.esu.org/

Mooting:
For details of the ESU – Essex Court National Mooting Competition:
https://nationalmooting.org/
And for the Rosamund Smith Mooting Competition:
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/members/student-information-and-services/mooting
For other mooting information
https://lawbore.net/mooting
https://global.oup.com/ukhe/mooting/whatismooting/?cc=gb&amp;lang=en&amp;
https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/current-students/mooting-oxford/mooting-what-it-and-why-take-part
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/what-is-mooting
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/jun/28/advice-for-law-students-how-to-moot

Pro Bono:
General Advice: https://www.middletemple.org.uk/members/student-information-and-services/advice-on-pro-bono-work
Free Representation Unit or ‘FRU’: http://www.thefru.org.uk/
Z2K: https://www.z2k.org/
National Centre for Domestic Violence: https://www.ncdv.org.uk/
Advice for setting up a Law Clinic at your university:
https://www.lawworks.org.uk/solicitors-and-volunteers/get-involved/law-schools-and-student-pro-bono

Some books on advocacy:
The Art of the Advocate by Richard du Cann: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-
Advocate-Penguin-Law/dp/0140179313
Devil’s Advocate by Iain Morley: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Devils-Advocate-Iain-Morley/dp/0414023226/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=GRED
V8JJHVSST1FZ04XS
365 Daily Advocacy Tips by Leslie Cuthbert: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daily-
Advocacy-Tips-Leslie-Cuthbert/dp/178043832X

Other useful resources:

Council of the Inns of Court https://www.coic.org.uk/
Justice First Fellowships: https://jff.thelegaleducationfoundation.org/
Public Law Project: https://publiclawproject.org.uk/
Bristol University Law Clinic: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/law/law-clinic/

Advocacy Experience

In these two episodes, we talk to barristers and other guests practising in lots of
different areas to hear about what it’s really like. What do they love about their
practice area? Who are their clients? What sort of skills do you need to flourish?
What are the things you really need to think about when choosing your practice?
They told us about important lifestyle differences between different practices and
how the legal directories can help you look behind aspirational websites. Perhaps
most important of all, they told us why, when selecting your practice area, you should
keep an open mind.
In Practice Areas II, we hear about family, crime and inquests practices.

Guests in order of appearance
Bernard Richmond QC: criminal silk and Head of Chambers at Lamb Building,
Master of Middle Temple, Assistant Coroner, Recorder
http://www.lambbuilding.co.uk/members/profile.php?id=3 and on Twitter as
@phatsilk_qc
Rupert Kent: criminal barrister at 2 Harcourt Buildings https://www.2hb.co.uk/rupert-
kent/
Jessica Lee: family barrister at 1GC https://1gc.com/barristers/profile/jessica-lee and
on Twitter as @jessicaleelaw
Useful Links
Essential reading for anyone considering a career in crime: The Secret Barrister
(who can be found on twitter @BarristerSecret)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Barrister-Stories-Law-
Broken/dp/1509841105/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1546431219&amp;sr=8-
1&amp;keywords=the+secret+barrister
And for anyone interested in crime and family: In Your Defence by Sarah Langford
(on twitter as @wigsandwords and on Instagram as @sarah_m_langford:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Defence-Stories-Life-
Law/dp/085752528X/ref=pd_sbs_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&amp;pd_rd_i=085752528X&amp;pd
_rd_r=d954d530-0e87-11e9-8210-
ed08ba772cb1&amp;pd_rd_w=CLkt3&amp;pd_rd_wg=v3gbb&amp;pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-
bb40-
d725dd59d1d3&amp;pf_rd_r=MJKG9FSD9HYXPKES5TAR&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=MJKG9FSD
9HYXPKES5TAR

The Legal 500: https://www.legal500.com/assets/pages/united-kingdom/uk.html
Chambers &amp; Partners: https://chambers.com/research/chambers-uk-and-uk-bar
Chambers Student Guide: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/ and some useful
advice on areas of law (the solicitors’ areas equally apply)
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/practice-areas
LawCareers.Net Handbook 2019: The Training Contract and Pupillage Guide
https://handbook.lawcareers.net/
Target Jobs Law: https://targetjobs.co.uk/career-sectors/law-barristers

Glossary
Attorney General’s Panel of Counsel: the panel of barristers who are instructed to
advise and represent central government departments.
Direct Access: where members of the public can instruct a barrister themselves
(directly) without having to go through a solicitor.
Legal Directories: reference books that rank and recommend chambers and
individual barristers. Chambers UK Bar (often called Chambers &amp; Partners) and
Legal 500 are the main legal directories.
Mentions: typically a very short case management hearing in the criminal courts.
Year of Call: the year in which a barrister was called to the Bar (i.e. the year in
which they qualified). It is used to understand how much experience a particular
barrister has.

Choosing Your Practice Areas II: Crime and Family

In these two episodes, we talk to barristers and other guests practising in lots of
different areas to hear about what it’s really like. What do they love about their
practice area? Who are their clients? What sort of skills do you need to flourish?
What are the things you really need to think about when choosing your practice?
They told us about important lifestyle differences between different practices and how the legal directories can help you look behind aspirational websites. Perhaps most important of all, they told us why, when selecting your practice area, you should keep an open mind.

In Practice Areas I, we hear about how to choose your specialism and explored
general civil, employment, construction, commercial, public, intellectual property and arbitration practices – and even a practice in ‘death row dogs’ cases…

Guests in order of appearance

Julia Horner: Chambers’ Director, Blackstone Chambers
https://www.blackstonechambers.com/clerks-staff/

Elaine Banton: employment barrister at 7 Bedford Row
http://www.7br.co.uk/barrister/elaine-banton/

Richard Wilmot-Smith QC: 2018 Master Treasurer of Middle Temple and practising construction and international arbitration silk at 39 Essex Chambers
https://www.39essex.com/barrister/richard-wilmot-smith-qc/

Cathryn McGahey QC: public law and immigration silk at Temple Garden Chambers https://tgchambers.com/member-profile/cathryn-mcgahey-qc/

Benet Brandreth QC: intellectual property silk at 11 South Square, rhetoric coach
and advocacy trainer https://www.11southsquare.com/barristers/benet-brandreth/ and https://www.benetbrandreth.com/ or on twitter @benetbrandreth

Useful Links

The Legal 500: https://www.legal500.com/assets/pages/united-kingdom/uk.html

Chambers & Partners: https://chambers.com/research/chambers-uk-and-uk-bar

Chambers Student Guide: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/ and some useful
advice on areas of law (the solicitors’ areas equally apply)https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/practice-areas

LawCareers.Net Handbook 2019: The Training Contract and Pupillage Guide
https://handbook.lawcareers.net/

Target Jobs Law: https://targetjobs.co.uk/career-sectors/law-barristers

Glossary

Attorney General’s Panel of Counsel: the panel of barristers who are instructed to advise and represent central government departments.

Direct Access: where members of the public can instruct a barrister themselves
(directly) without having to go through a solicitor.

IP (intellectual property): intellectual property is the name given to the product of people’s minds: ideas; inventions; medicines; pieces of music etc. The law of
intellectual property concerns the protection of rights in those products.

Legal Directories: reference books that rank and recommend chambers and
individual barristers. Chambers UK Bar (often called Chambers &amp; Partners) and Legal 500 are the main legal directories.

Rights of audience: sometimes known as ‘higher rights of audience’, these are the rights of a qualified advocate to appear in the superior courts.

Mentions: typically a very short case management hearing in the criminal courts.

Pupillage Training Organisation: or ‘PTO’ – an organisation that can offer
pupillage. Traditionally these have been barristers’ chambers but as we hear in this episode, solicitors’ firms and other organisations can now qualify to become PTOs.

Year of Call: the year in which a barrister was called to the Bar (i.e. the year in
which they qualified). It is used to understand how much experience a particular
barrister has.

Choosing Your Practice Area I: Mixed Civil

When deciding where to apply for pupillage, you need to consider not just which
chambers to join, but where in the country you want to work. Barristers and
chambers can be found not just in central London but throughout England and
Wales. Such chambers are often mixed common law sets which can be an ideal
place to start your career and which can offer some amazing opportunities.
The English and Welsh Bar is divided into six regions, known as ‘circuits’: Midland; Northern; North Eastern; South Eastern; Wales and Chester and Western. In this episode, we hear from two circuiteers about the many benefits of life on circuit.

Guests in order of appearance

Lord Judge: retired Court of Appeal judge, Middle Temple bencher, former Lord
Chief Justice, President of the Queen’s Bench Division, Master Treasurer of Middle Temple and passionate circuiteer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Judge,_Baron_Judge

Christian Howells: barrister at 30 Park Place, Cardiff and door tenant at 1COR
http://www.30parkplace.co.uk/barristers/profile/christian-j-howells and
https://www.1cor.com/london/barristers/christian-howells/
https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about-the-bar/what-is-the-bar/circuits/

Useful Links

For more information on the circuits: https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about-the-
bar/what-is-the-bar/circuits/

The Midland Circuit website is coming soon, register here for updates:
http://www.midlandcircuit.co.uk/
The Northern Circuit: https://www.northerncircuit.org.uk/
The South Eastern Circuit: http://southeastcircuit.org.uk/
Wales and Chester Circuit: http://www.walesandchestercircuit.org.uk/
Western Circuit: https://westerncircuit.co.uk/
European Circuit: http://www.europeancircuit.com/

Glossary

Circuit: The English and Welsh Bar is divided into six regions, known as ‘circuits’.
Each circuit provides barristers with a range of services and liaise with the local 
courts. There is even a European Circuit bringing together barristers working in
Europe.

Circuiteer: a barrister practising on circuit.

Common law set: a set of chambers generally covering a range of civil, public,
crime and family law.

Door tenant: a barrister who is affiliated to, and predominately practises out of,
another chambers or has another employer.

Choosing Your Pupillage I: Life On Circuit

Before you come to making pupillage applications, you have to decide what sort of pupillage you want. Do you want to practise at the employed or self-employed Bar? Should you apply only to the crème de la crème of chambers or should you apply to a spectrum? Are you looking for a big mixed practice chambers or something small and specialist? Do you want to work for the Government Legal Department or perhaps in a charity or NGO? Or do you want to be at the cutting edge of alternative business structures and join an in-house chambers within a solicitors’ firm? These are just some of the questions you will ask if considering a career as a barrister. We asked our guests about their own experiences and roles to help you find the answers.

Guests in order of appearance

Elaine Banton: barrister at 7 Bedford Row http://www.7br.co.uk/barrister/elaine-
banton/

Julia Horner: Practice Director at Blackstone Chambers
https://www.blackstonechambers.com/recruitment/staff/

Jessica Lee: barrister and Middle Temple bencher
https://1gc.com/barristers/profile/jessica-lee and on twitter @jessicaleelaw

Michael Harwood: barrister and President of MTYBA
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-harwood-24273342/?originalSubdomain=uk and on twitter @mi_harwood

Sahar Farooqi: barrister and director of advocacy at DWF LLP
https://www.dwf.law/en/People/Find-a-lawyer/2017/S/Sahar-Farooqi

Alison Pickup: barrister and legal director of the Public Law Project
https://publiclawproject.org.uk/who-we-are/staff/

Matt Ahluwalia: barrister and Justice First Fellow at the Public Law Project
https://jff.thelegaleducationfoundation.org/fellow/matthew-ahluwalia/

Useful Links

DWF Advocacy Limited: https://www.dwf.law/en/Connected-Services/DWF-
Advocacy

Barrister’s earnings: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-
start/newsletter/how-much-do-barristers-earn

Public Law Project: https://publiclawproject.org.uk/

Justice First Fellowships: https://jff.thelegaleducationfoundation.org/

Glossary

Arbitration: a type of alternative dispute resolution (ADR) where disputes are
resolved outside the traditional court structure. Disputes are decided by arbitrators and are legally binding.

Counsel: another term for barristers

CPS: the Crown Prosecution Service

Door tenant: a barrister who is affiliated to, and predominately practises out of,
another chambers or has another employer.

Employed Bar: a term that refers to barristers who are employed.

Fused profession: the system whereby the legal profession is not divided between solicitors and barristers and the two roles are united; most common law jurisdictions outside England and Wales have fused professions.

Government Legal Department: the largest provider of legal services within the
Government Legal Profession.

Government Legal Service: recently renamed the Government Legal Profession,
this is the umbrella group comprising around two thousand qualified lawyers employed as civil servants in around thirty UK Government departments. The GLP (GLS) includes legal teams employed within, for example, the Attorney General’s Office, HMRC, MI5 and MI6.

Independent Bar: a term for self-employed barristers practising in chambers.

Litigator: a lawyer specialising in litigation; often used interchangeably with
advocate.

Marshalling: work experience shadowing a judge.

Mini-Pupillage: a period of work experience in a barristers’ chambers, usually a
week or less, sometimes assessed. These are generally only available to those in
their final year of a law degree or from the law conversation course onward.

Permission hearings: an early stage of a judicial review.

QC: Queen’s Counsel – an award for excellence in advocacy in the higher courts.
Those barristers who become QCs are also known as ‘silks’. The title depends on
the sex of the sovereign and during the reign of a king, QCs will become ‘King’s
Counsel’ or ‘KCs’.

RTA: road traffic accidents.

Choosing Your Pupillage II: Chambers or Employed Bar?

Today’s the day! At 11.00am on 7 January 2019, the Pupillage Gateway goes live
and candidates across the country will start drafting their applications.

In this episode, we talk to barristers who, between them, have read thousands of
pupillage applications – and who remember how difficult it was to write their own. We talk to members of Gateway and non-Gateway chambers to hear about standard application forms, the challenges of covering letters and application processes that include assessed mini-pupillages. They told us how to demonstrate your written advocacy ability and warned us of some common pitfalls to avoid. They also gave us a rare insight into what happens in chambers when the pile of pupillage application forms arrives.

Guests in order of appearance

James Duffy: barrister and member of the Pupillage Committee at Fountain Court https://www.fountaincourt.co.uk/people/james-duffy/

Paul Greatorex: barrister at 11KBW https://www.11kbw.com/barristers/paul-
greatorex/

Eleena Misra: barrister at Old Square Chambers http://www.oldsquare.co.uk/our-
people/profile/eleena-misra and on twitter @EleenaMisra

Kate Grange QC: silk at 39 Essex https://www.39essex.com/barrister/kate-grange/

Alison Pickup: barrister and legal director of the Public Law Project
https://publiclawproject.org.uk/who-we-are/staff/

Michael Harwood: barrister and President of MTYBA
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-harwood-24273342/?originalSubdomain=uk and on Twitter @mi_harwood

Matt Ahluwalia: barrister and Justice First Fellow at the Public Law Project
https://jff.thelegaleducationfoundation.org/fellow/matthew-ahluwalia/

Elizabeth Dwomoh: barrister at Lamb Chambers
https://www.lambchambers.co.uk/who-can-help-you/barristers/elizabeth-dwomoh

Useful Links

The Pupillage Gateway: https://www.pupillagegateway.com/

5 Essex Court is the only chambers (as far as we know!) to publish a full report about its application and interview process each year. No matter what chambers you are applying to, it offers an invaluable insider point of view of what does and does not impress a Pupillage Committee:
https://5essexcourt.co.uk/images/uploads/misc/5_Essex_Court_Pupillage_Application_Round_2018.pdf

The 5 Essex Court Pupillage Committee also tweets advice from @pupillages
https://twitter.com/pupillages?lang=en and junior tenants give an insight into life in chambers on Instagram @5EssexCourt_pupillages
https://www.instagram.com/5essexcourt_pupillages/

Everyone who is assessing pupillage candidates must read or do training in this
guide so it is a very helpful insight into what barristers might be looking for:
https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/media/343819/fair_recruitment_guide_2015_april_final.pdf

See what Ishan Kolhatkar (to whom we spoken in the very first episode) has to say about completing application forms: http://bptclecturer.com/selecting-chambers-and-completing-pupillage-application-forms

The Student Room usually has an annual The Pupillage
Interview/Acceptance/Rejection Thread full of candidates sharing advice and when interview invitations have been sent – here is 2018’s:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5066896

Perhaps the best advice out there on how to turn your previous work experience into a compelling pupillage application:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/apr/20/how-to-write-good-pupillage-
application

Applications

It’s all paid off. Your application was a success and you have been invited for
interview. But now what?!

In the final - bumper - episode of the series, we talk to the people sitting on the other side of the table in pupillage interviews. We ask them how you can prepare for interviews, how to approach legal problem questions and advocacy exercises and how to spot an ethical question. And along the way, they tell us about some of the mistakes they see (and once made themselves) and offer some insight into how you can impress a Pupillage Committee.

Guests in order of appearance

Elizabeth Dwomoh: barrister at Lamb Chambers
https://www.lambchambers.co.uk/who-can-help-you/barristers/elizabeth-dwomoh

Master Ann Hussey: silk and Master of the Bench at 1 Hare Court
https://www.1hc.com/people/ann-hussey-qc/

Alex Cisneros: barrister at No 5 https://www.no5.com/barristers/barrister-details/493-alex-cisneros/

Cathryn McGahey QC: silk at Temple Gardens Chambers
https://tgchambers.com/member-profile/cathryn-mcgahey-qc/

James Wakefield: barrister, leader of the Council of the Inns of Court and dean of the Inns of Court College of Advocacy

Karen Steyn QC: silk at 11KBW https://www.11kbw.com/barristers/karen-steyn/

Kate Grange QC: silk at 39 Essex https://www.39essex.com/barrister/kate-grange/

Useful Links

5 Essex Court is the only chambers (as far as we know!) to publish a full report about its application and interview process each year. No matter what chambers you are applying to, it offers an invaluable insider point of view of what does and does not impress a Pupillage Committee:
https://5essexcourt.co.uk/images/uploads/misc/5_Essex_Court_Pupillage_Application_Round_2018.pdf

The 5 Essex Court Pupillage Committee also tweets advice from @pupillages
https://twitter.com/pupillages?lang=en and junior tenants give an insight into life in chambers on Instagram @5EssexCourt_pupillages
https://www.instagram.com/5essexcourt_pupillages/

Everyone who is assessing pupillage candidates must read or do training in this
guide so it is a very helpful insight into what barristers might be looking for:
https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/media/343819/fair_recruitment_guide_2015_april_final.pdf

See what Ishan Kolhatkar (to whom we spoken in the very first episode) has to say about pupillage interviews: http://bptclecturer.com/pupillageinterviews

The legal directories: Chambers UK: https://chambers.com/ and Legal 500
https://www.legal500.com/

Legal Cheek on nerves: https://www.legalcheek.com/2016/06/how-to-get-through-pupillage-interviews-if-you-are-prone-to-anxiety/

Ted Talk on Power Poses:
https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are?language=en

Bar Council: https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/

The Student Room usually has an annual The Pupillage Interview/Acceptance/Rejection Thread full of candidates sharing advice and when interview invitations have been sent – here is 2018’s:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5066896

Some examples of pupillage interview questions from the MTSA:
http://middletemplestudents.com/example-pupillage-interview-questions/

How to address a judge (essential for advocacy exercises):
https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/what-do-i-call-judge/ and
https://learnmore.lawbore.net/index.php/Modes_Of_Address_Introduction

And some general advice about pupillage interviews:
https://www.lawcareers.net/Information/Features/03012017-Acing-that-pupillage-interview
https://targetjobs.co.uk/career-sectors/law-barristers/advice/291565-how-to-ace-your-pupillage-interview-tips-from-qualified-barristers
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/pupillage-interviews

Books we recommended: Bewigged and Bewildered by Adam Kramer and Ian
Higgins; Learning the Law by Glanville Williams; Devil’s Advocate by Iain Morley QC and To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee.

Interviews

Guests
Carin Hunt: barrister at Outer Temple Chambers
https://www.outertemple.com/barristers/carin-hunt/
Master Angus McCullough QC: Master of the Bench and barrister at One Crown
Office Row https://www.1cor.com/london/barristers/angus-mccullough-qc/
William Hawkes: https://www.williamhawkes.co.uk/

Useful Links
If you have a moot in which a Supreme Court decision is cited, take a look at the
Supreme Court website which has accessible press summaries to give you a quick
overview. You can also watch the argument for recent cases:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/decided-cases/index.html
Details on Middle Temple’s Rosamund Smith Mooting Competition, some other
mooting competitions and don’t miss the links to helpful documents on the right hand
side: https://www.middletemple.org.uk/members/student-information-and-
services/mooting
Some previous Rosamund Smith Moot Finals skeleton arguments:
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/inn-calendar/rosamund-smith-moot-final and
https://www.middletemple.org.uk/inn-calendar/rosamund-smith-moot-final-0
Details on the Vis Moot: https://vismoot.pace.edu/
CPR Part 52: Appeals: Skeleton Arguments:
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part52/pd_part52#V
The Queen’s Bench Guide:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attach
ment_data/file/760087/the-queens-bench-guide-20180906.pdf
Commercial Court Guide:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attach
ment_data/file/672422/The_Commercial_Court_Guide_new_10th_Edition_07.09.17.
pdf
Effective Written Advocacy by Andrew Goodman:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Effective-Written-Advocacy-Guide-
Practitioners/dp/0854900950
What do I call a judge?: https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/what-do-i-call-
judge/

Glossary
BPP: a law school

Mooting Demystified

​In today's double-bill of mini-episodes, Beatrice and George answer some of your questions. In episode 1, they discuss law school and applications questions while in episode 2, they concentrate on interviews and beyond and relive some embarrassing moments from their own pupillage journeys.

Quick Fire 2: Interviews and Beyond

Quick Fire 1: Law School and Pupillage Applications

This episode is for those of our listeners who are already working – but are thinking about leaving their current career in order to come to the Bar. A surprisingly large proportion of barristers in private practice have had a previous career of one sort or another. Indeed one of guests on this episode told us that when he’s King, all barristers will be obliged to have a period of employment for at least a year before they start! We hear our guests’ tips for those seeking pupillage a bit later in life, what the qualification requirements are and whether there truly are any short-cuts.

Guests
Peter Laverack: barrister at 5 Essex Court https://5essexcourt.co.uk/our-
people/profile/peter-laverack
Dijen Basu QC: barrister at Serjeants’ Inn https://www.serjeantsinn.com/barrister/dijen-
basu-qc/
Penelope Nevill: barrister at 20 Essex Street https://twentyessex.com/people/penelope-nevill/

Glossary
Higher rights of audience: the qualification to appear in higher courts of record for solicitors
or legal executives.

Bar As A Second Career

This is an episode for anyone considering a life of crime. The Criminal Bar is one of the most
exciting and rewarding areas of practice but it also faces some of the biggest challenges and
shockingly low rates of pay and poor working conditions. Attrition rates among juniors,
especially women, are worryingly high.
Today we hear from some criminal practitioners who bravely tell it like it is. We hear about
the highs and lows and try to give you the inside view so, if the Criminal Bar appeals to you,
you can make a fully informed decision.

Guests
Monica Stevenson: barrister at 25 Bedford Row
https://www.25bedfordrow.com/site/people/profile/monica.stevenson

The Secret Barrister: author and barrister https://thesecretbarrister.com/. On Twitter
@barristersecret and to buy the bestselling book, The Secret Barrister, Stories of the Law and
How It’s Broken: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Barrister-Stories-Law-
Broken/dp/1509841105
Karon Monaghan QC: barrister at Matrix Chambers
https://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/member/karon-monaghan/
Sarah Langford: barrister at 3 Paper Buildings https://www.3pb.co.uk/barristers/sarah-
langford/ and author of In Your Defence https://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Defence-Stories-
Life-
Law/dp/1784163082/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=53571611223&amp;gclid=CjwKCAjwtO7qBRBQEiw
Al5WC29FPrjtXYqJvQ3RIqGtSieE7ZKefhrXNjnao9rJpeeXT0f1TXzf6rxoCqxEQAvD_Bw
E&amp;hvadid=267142082856&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvlocphy=9045999&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvpos=1t1&amp;hvqmt=
e&amp;hvrand=2878795830517275464&amp;hvtargid=aud-614677023298%3Akwd-
469909746161&amp;hydadcr=18518_1817325&amp;keywords=sarah+langford+in+your+defence&amp;qi
d=1566334149&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1
and on Twitter @wigsandwords
Sir Brian Leveson PC: a former criminal silk who went on to become a High Court Judge
and then Lord Justice of Appeal, President of the Queen’s Bench Division and the Head of
Criminal Justice. He is also well known for being the Chair of the Leveson Inquiry, a
judicial public inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the British press.

Useful Links
Anyone thinking of a career at the Criminal Bar should read this blog post from 2013 (we are
told things have since got worse):   https://50shadesofaffray.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/life-at-
the-thin-edge-of-the-wedge-the-grim-reality-of-the-independent-junior-criminal-bar/.

One of the Secret Barrister’s blog posts that is particularly worth
reading: https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/26/guest-post-the-secret-bptc-
student-on-legal-aid-cuts-and-the-criminal-bar/
The Western Circuit report ‘Back to the Bar’
https://d17g388r7gqnd8.cloudfront.net/2019/01/WCWF-Back-to-the-Bar.pdf
Chris Henley QC’s article on Women at the Criminal Bar:
https://www.criminalbar.com/resources/news/cba-monday-message-11-02-19/

Glossary
CPS: Crown Prosecution Service
Warned list: a window in which a trial could be listed (often lasting weeks)
A returned case: If a barrister is unable to do a hearing or a piece of advisory work in a case
for which they are instructed (usually because of unexpected diary problems) then they
‘return’ it to the client so that the client can instruct someone else who does have capacity to
do the work. A ‘return’ usually arrives on the new barrister’s desk at the last minute.

The Criminal Bar

The recent announcement by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex --- aka Harry and
Meghan --- that they are planning to sue Associated Newspapers after the Mail on
Sunday published a private letter from Meghan to her father, has put the spotlight on
media and defamation law – the topic of this episode of the pupillage podcast. We hear
about celebrities and super injunctions, but also learn that nothing is beyond the reach
of this fascinating area of law, from anti-semitism, to medical research, to the parish
newsletter. If you’re interested in the conflict between free speech and privacy, and in
truth and opinion then this episode is for you.
Guests
Felicity McMahon: barrister at 5RB
https://www.5rb.com/member/felicity-mcmahon/ and on Twitter @bitofalegalgeek
Master Adrienne Page QC: barrister at 5RB
https://www.5rb.com/member/adrienne-page-qc/

Useful Links
McNae’s Essential Law for Journalists, Mark Hanna &amp; Mark Dodd
https://www.amazon.co.uk/McNaes-Essential-Journalists-Mike-
Dodd/dp/0198809573/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
Glossary
CFA: Conditional Fee Agreements – a no win, no fee agreement whereby a party only has to
pay legal costs if they win their case; if they do not, there are no costs to pay.
Recoverable Success Fees: an additional amount of the winning party’s legal fees which have
to be paid by the losing party, which since 6 April 2019 are no longer permitted in
defamation and privacy cases.
IPSO – Independent Press Standards Organisation
Master of the Bench – senior members of the Inns of Court
Costs Masters – costs judge – judges sitting in the Senior Courts Costs Office
QB Masters – Queen’s Bench Master, a judge who handles case management of cases in the
Queens’ Bench Division

Media and Defamation Law

Guests
 
Ruth Kennedy barrister at 2TG https://www.2tg.co.uk/people/ruth-kennedy/
 
Michael Bowsher QC barrister at Monckton Chambers
https://www.monckton.com/barrister/michael-bowsher-qc/
 
Useful Links
KCL procurement distance learning module: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/law/research/centres/european/programmes/procurementsyllabus​

Commercial Bar

Human Rights and Public International Law are two of the most appealing and popular areas
of the law, but what do they really entail and how easy are they to get into? We hear from
two junior practitioners who tell us about their own motivations and the challenges they have
encountered in their practices. Learn why it might not always pay to be an activist if you
want to go into HR and take note of a health warning about how to start a PIL practice…
Guests
Jude Bunting: barrister at Doughty Street https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/jude-
bunting
Remi Reichhold: barrister at 5 Essex Court https://5essexcourt.co.uk/our-
people/profile/remi-reichhold

Glossary
CFA: Conditional Fee Agreement – sometimes known as ‘no win no fee’
NGO: Non-Governmental Organisation
PIL: Public International Law

Human Rights and Public International Law

Did you love studying the weird and wonderful world of Equity and Trusts? Then today’s episode is for you. We hear from Constance McDonnell QC, a traditional chancery barrister, who tells us how a chancery practice can lead to that elusive work-life balance and why people skills - and not just intellect - are essential. And then we look into one of the most mysterious and little-known courts with Claire van Overdijk: the Court of Protection.

Guests
Constance McDonnell QC barrister at Serle Court
http://www.serlecourt.co.uk/news/article/constance-mcdonnell-qc
Claire van Overdijk barrister at Outer Temple
https://www.outertemple.com/barristers/claire-van-overdijk/

Useful Links
Glossary
CCG: Clinical commissioning groups
Probate: the law concerning the administration of a person’s property, money and
possessions (their ‘estate’) once they are dead.
Mediation: a meeting between parties to litigation or proposed litigation which aims to
resolve the dispute by arriving at a settlement. The parties are helped by a mediator who
facilitates discussion. Anything discussed at a mediation is ‘without prejudice’.
FDR: Financial Dispute Resolution Hearing, a judge-directed mediation where a judge will
assist the parties by expressing a view on a point of law.
Without prejudice: a party who makes a statement (either orally or in writing) and indicates
that it is ‘without prejudice’ cannot be held to that statement, i.e. that statement cannot be
relied upon by the other party in the course of the litigation.
P: the person without capacity whose best interests are under discussion in the context of
Court of Protection work.

Chancery And Court Of Protection

These practice areas are, in the words of one of our guests, not for the weak-hearted. But if you are up for the varied and exacting challenges that a personal injury or clinical negligence presents, you will find yourself richly rewarded. We hear from Farah Mauladad who explains to us what it takes to cross-examine someone who went into hospital perfectly fit and came out tetraplegic, and from Gerard McDermott QC whose clients have often suffered catastrophic and life-changing injuries: he leaves us in no doubt that health and safety really
matters.

Guests
Farrah Mauladad: barrister at Crown Office Chambers
https://www.crownofficechambers.com/barristers/farrah-mauladad/
Master Gerard McDermott QC: barrister at Outer Temple Chambers
https://www.outertemple.com/barristers/gerard-mcdermott-qc/ and to follow Gerard on
twitter https://twitter.com/mcdermottqc?lang=en

Useful Links
Association of Personal Injury Lawyers: https://www.apil.org.uk
Action against Medical Accidents: https://www.avma.org.uk

Glossary
CFA: Conditional Fee Agreement – sometimes known as ‘no win no fee’

Personal Injury and Clinical Negligence

Last year data protection law firmly made its presence felt in all of our lives when we got dozens of emails about privacy notices and the GDPR: as Christopher Knight, one of our guests on today’s episode points out, data protection applies to everyone everywhere. So what does that mean for a data protection law practice? And what is the difference anyway between data protection law and information law?
Meanwhile, the news is full of issues which potentially concern planning and environmental lawyers, from HS2’s troubles to the housing crisis, to Extinction Rebellion’s demands for a reduction in carbon emissions, and the Mayor of London’s commitment to a reduction in air pollution.
We wanted to investigate what it’s like to have a practice in these areas of law, so in this episode we talk to barristers Christopher Knight and James Pereira QC about their respective practices in Data and Information Law and Planning and Environmental law. We learn how to keep calm amongst the Data Protection Act’s subclauses, and why a planning practice is partly about listening to people’s stories and selling a vision of the future.

Guests
Christopher Knight: barrister at 11KBW https://www.11kbw.com/barristers/christopher-
knight/
James Pereira QC: barrister at Francis Taylor Building
https://www.ftbchambers.co.uk/barristers/james-pereira-qc

Useful Links
11KBW’s Panopticon: https://panopticonblog.com/

Privacy International: https://privacyinternational.org/

Open Rights Group: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/

Media Law Defence Initiative: https://www.mediadefence.org/

Article 19: https://www.article19.org/

Big Brother Watch: https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk

The Information Commissioner’s website: https://ico.org.uk

Peter Carey’s Freedom of Information Handbook: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freedom-
Information-Handbook-Peter-Carey/dp/1907698183 and his book on Data Protection
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Data-Protection-Practical-Guide-law/dp/0198815417/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1567084243&amp;refinements=p_27%3APeter+Carey&amp;s=b
ooks&amp;sr=1-1&amp;text=Peter+Carey

Glossary
FOIA: Freedom of Information Act
GDPR: General Data Protection Regulation
DPA: Data Protection Act
ICCPR: International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

Information, Planning and Environmental Law

After 12 months of pupillage you’re told you’re not going to be offered tenancy. It’s really tough, there’s no doubt about it. But it’s most definitely not the end of the world lots of highly successful barristers (and some judges!) have done third sixes. In this episode our guests remind you to keep in mind how far you’ve come, encourage you to
be proactive and tell you how to pivot quickly, figure out your place in the market and bag a third six. They also give you some top tips for how to handle that third six, impress chambers and and convert pupillage into tenancy.

Guests
Ryan Turner, barrister at Lamb Chambers: https://www.lambchambers.co.uk/who-can-
help-you/barristers/ryan-turner
Olivia Potts, former barrister and now cordon bleu baker: https://ahalfbakedidea.co.uk
on twitter @_poots_ and Instagram @ahalfbakedidea
Alistair Richardson, barrister at 6 KBW College Hill
https://www.6kbw.com/people/barristers/alistair-richardson

Useful Links
The list of chambers recruiting for third sixes: https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/careers/third-
six-vacancies-and-best-practice/
Some more information on the STAR interview technique:
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-is-the-star-interview-response-technique-2061629

Third Sixes

What if you love the idea of being a lawyer but, in the end, don’t really fancy being a barrister? There are so many varied and exciting careers to be had under the rubric ‘lawyer’. In this episode we explore a few of the alternatives, and hear from our guests what the world is like beyond the Bar.

Guests
Christina Blacklaws: President of the Law Society until 2019:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinablacklaws/?originalSubdomain=uk
EJ Johnston Hawke: trainee solicitor at Edwards Duthie Shamash,
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ej-johnston-hawke-42132343
Millicent Grant: President of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives July 2018-July
2019
https://www.cilex.org.uk/about_cilex/the_cilex_council_archive/the_cilex_president
Master Lisa Osofsky: Director of the Serious Fraud Office
https://www.sfo.gov.uk/about-us/biographies/

Useful Links
Young Legal Aid Lawyers: http://www.younglegalaidlawyers.org
Becoming a legal aid lawyer: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-
start/newsletter/becoming-a-legal-aid-lawyer
Chartered Institute of Legal Executives: www.cilex.org.uk
Serious Fraud Office careers: https://www.sfo.gov.uk/about-us/careers/
Law society of England and Wales: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk

Glossary
Magic Circle firm: name given to the group of five city law firms in London considered to be ‘the best’ (Allen &amp; Overy, Clifford Chance, Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer, Linklaters,
Slaughter and May).

Legal Aid work: legal aid is state funding for individuals unable to pay for legal representation in criminal, and some housing, family and immigration cases. Legal aid work is work in these areas. The fees are paid by the state, and administered by the Legal Aid Agency.
SFO: Serious Fraud Office a specialist prosecuting authority tackling the top level of serious or complex fraud, bribery and corruption. The SFO takes on a small number of large economic crime cases involving serious or complex fraud.

Beyond The Bar

What if you are doing the GDL or the BPTC, or you’re searching for pupillage or busy
doing pupillage or you’re finally practising as a barrister… but you have a nagging
feeling that you’re the wrong person in the wrong place? And it’s not just that you
don’t want to be a barrister, but – horror of horrors – you don’t want to be a lawyer.
This episode is a little different from the others: in it we hear from people who have
decided to move away from the law. Our guests tell us how it felt to come to the
realisation that they wanted to get off the road marked ‘lawyer’ and travel somewhere
else; what practical steps they took to create their new careers and why it is that a
training in law stands you in good stead no matter where you end up. We loved hearing
about their experiences – we hope you do too!

Guests
Katrina Kutchinsky: for more information about Katrina, see
http://leagueofher.com/katrina-kutchinsky-founder-story/
Katrina’s PR company: https://www.akacomms.com/ and follow her on Twitter
@katrina_KK

Kathryn Perera: Director of NHS Horizons, @kathrynperera

Alex Aldridge: founder and publisher of Legal Cheek www.legalcheek.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-aldridge-99728913/?originalSubdomain=uk
and follow Alex on twitter @AlexAldridgeUK

Olivia Potts: cordon bleu patissiere https://ahalfbakedidea.co.uk/, writer, author of A Half
Baked Idea available here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Half-Baked-Idea-courtroom-
Cordon/dp/0241380456/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=half+baked+idea&amp;qid=1565876083&amp;s=book
s&amp;sr=1-1 and follow Olivia on twitter: @_Poots_ and Instagram @ahalfbakedidea

Alex Macqueen: actor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Macqueen and follow him twitter:
@Alex_Macqueen

Alternative Careers

For the final episode of the Pupillage Podcast, we look into the future: what lies ahead for the Bar? Are the robots coming for our wigs and gowns? We heard from three guests who have given this a lot of thought and found that the changes ahead are bigger than we could ever have imagined…

Guests

Jamie Susskind: author, speaker and barrister at Littleton Chambers http://www.littletonchambers.com/barrister/jamie-susskind/ and https://www.jamiesusskind.com/. To follow Jamie on Twitter @jamiesusskind and you can buy Future Politics here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Politics-Living-Together-Transformed/dp/0198825617/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537175876&sr=1-1&keywords=jamie+susskind+future+politics

Alex Glassbrook: barrister at Temple Garden Chambers https://tgchambers.com/member-profile/alex-glassbrook/ and author of the Law of Driverless Cars: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Law-Driverless-Cars-Introduction/dp/1911035282

Dr Christopher Markou: Fellow of Jesus College Cambridge https://www.law.cam.ac.uk/people/cp-markou/6574


Useful Links

A futurist’s reading list:

Future Politics by Jamie Susskind: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Politics-Living-Together-Transformed/dp/0198825617/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537175876&sr=1-1&keywords=jamie+susskind+future+politics

‘Tomorrow’s Lawyers’ by Richard Susskind 
Forthcoming book by Richard Susskind ‘Online Courts and the Future of Justice’: https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Online-Courts-Justice-Richard-Susskind/dp/0198838360/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=online+courts+and+the+future+of+justice+susskind&qid=1565944646&s=gateway&sr=8-1

‘Hello World’ by Hannah Fry https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hello-World-How-Human-Machine/dp/1784163066/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1565946419&sr=1-1

For the decision of Leggatt J (as he then was) referred to by Alex Glassbrook: Gestmin SGPS S.A. v Credit Suisse [2013] EWHC 3560 (Comm) https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2013/3560.html 

‘Weapons of Math Destruction by Cathy O’Neill by https://smile.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_g3905707922?_encoding=UTF8&%2AVersion%2A=1&%2Aentries%2A=0&ie=UTF8


‘The Black Box Society’ by Frank Pasquale https://smile.amazon.com/Black-Box-Society-Algorithms-Information/dp/0674970845/ref=sr_1_1?crid=21KT2GUNTQ3VD&keywords=black+box+society&qid=1565968786&s=gateway&sprefix=black+box+so%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C276&sr=8-1


‘Novacene’ by James Lovelock https://smile.amazon.com/Novacene-Coming-Age-Hyperintelligence-Press/dp/0262043645/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=novacene&qid=1565968810&s=gateway&sr=8-1


Glossary

ADM: Automated Decision Making, the process of making a decision by automated means without any human involvement e.g. a refund for an Amazon purchase to be returned; an online decision to award a loan.	

Blockchain: a secure, encrypted, peer-to-peer transaction ledger used to record transactions

AI: Artificial Intelligence, an area of computer science which aims to create ‘intelligent’ machines (computers).

The Future of the Bar

[2019] 1 PUP POD 101

From Middle Temple, this is The Pupillage Podcast, hosted by Georgina Wolfe and Beatrice Collier. Available on Soundcloud, Spotify, iTunes and Mixcloud. Twitter: @pupillagepodca1

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