Diana Deibel and Rebecca Evanhoe first crossed paths on a Slack channel back in 2018, where they were seeking out colleagues who might know a thing or two about conversation design.. Fast forward to 2021, and their new book on conversation design is finished and available for preorder! Conversations with Things teaches you how to design conversations that are useful, ethical, and human-centered—because everyone deserves to be understood, especially you. In this episode, they chat with Lou about writing the book, the ethics of voice design, and more. 

Diana recommends:
• AmberNechole Hart’s Why does Siri sound white? https://slideslive.com/38925092/why-does-siri-sound-white?ref=tag-33116-latest
• We Should Get Together by Kat Vellos https://weshouldgettogether.com/books

Becca recommends
• Design Justice: Community-Led Practices to Build the Worlds We Need By Sasha Costanza-Chock https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/design-justice
• Design Justice Network https://designjustice.org/

Buy the book

Conversations with Things: UX Design for Chat and Voice

Although large areas of the federal government focused on design as a practice do not closely involve the citizenry in their design processes, Victor Udoewa, Chief Experience Officer and Service Design Lead, NASA, has taken a vastly different approach to end user design methodology in government.

In this episode of the Rosenfeld Review, Victor brings us up to speed on participatory design and its pros and cons. He also explains his radical approach to it—a meta-methodology he’s used in service and system design—and how his radical approach enables people to participate in and influence high-level government design projects.

Victor shares his insights around key areas of participatory design, including:

• A redefined approach to “radical” participatory design, and how this difference meaningfully distinguishes his work from a socio-human perspective
• A focus on his department’s efforts to help develop the economy in support of small businesses
• Weighing the impact of “power” in design organizations as they shape methodology from a higher-level perspective
• How incorporating end user insights can holistically influence design outcomes despite existing power dynamics that may have previously stunted those opportunities
• How methods such as the collaborative design studio can derive a wider range of insights from end users
• Demystifying participatory design by bridging the gap between old and new perspectives
• Rethinking how information is shared from a socio-economic perspective
• The benefits in shifting research from an investigation-based methodology to a more humanistic approach, such as navigating a socio-human system
• Rethinking poverty as the lack of relationships from which money flows, and how this parallel can be drawn with information/research initiatives

Learn more from Victor’s talk, “Radical Participatory Research: Decolonizing Participatory Processes” at our upcoming virtual conference, Advancing Research 2022 (virtual, March 9-11). Register today! https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research-2022/

Radical Participatory Research: Decolonizing Participatory Processes

When it comes to design operations, it can be challenging to find the best method to provide the creative team with the tools they need that will eliminate some of their more mundane tasks to allow them more time to focus on their ideas and innovative work. Lou talks with Candace Myers, design operations leader with Netflix StudiosXD, about how she integrates technology and practices to optimize her efficiency in the creative and design fields. Candace will be speaking at the DesignOps Summit 2022 virtual conference, September 8-9.

Candace recommends: I am obsessed with the Pivot Podcast with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. It has EVERYTHING that ops professionals needs to consider- human intent & emotion, business conditions, what good and poor leadership looks like, and brand strategy. It's a must listen for anyone in tech, but especially generalists.

Read the transcript

Standardizing Design at Scale with Candace Myers

Lou sits down with co-founder and executive director of the Public Policy Lab, Chelsea Mauldin. She gives us a preview of the talk she will be giving at the upcoming Civic Design Conference, Nov. 16 - 18th. They dive deeper into the intersection of design in the public sector and how that can look when dealing with all levels of government policy. Chelsea briefs Lou on how her nonprofit partners with government personnel to develop policy, and how the civic design community is growing today. She also discusses the different struggles her nonprofit faces versus those in the private sector.

Design in the Public Sector with Chelsea Mauldin, Executive Director of the Public Policy Lab

Lou sits down with Catt Small, Director of Product Design at All Turtles, who will be speaking at the Design in Product Conference on December 6, 2022. They discuss how designers and product managers can learn each other’s lingo and build relationships that will make both their jobs easier. Together, they sort through different workplace scenarios that new and more seasoned designers can encounter and Catt dispenses wisdom she has picked up throughout her career.

Register to attend the conference: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/futures/design-in-product/register/

Catt is a product design leader, game maker, and front-end web developer. She is currently the Director of Product Design at All Turtles, a globally distributed product studio solving meaningful problems. Catt has done design work for companies of all sizes including Asana, Etsy, SoundCloud, and Nasdaq. She started coding around the age of 10 and designing at the age of 15. She graduated from SVA with a BFA in Graphic Design in 2011 and later received an MS in Integrated Digital Media from NYU in 2016. Catt also makes awkward video games, writes about professional development, and draws artwork of all kinds. You can follow her @cattsmall on Twitter and view her work at www.cattsmall.com.

Moving from Execution to Strategy as a Designer with Catt Small

Lou has Rich Mironov, CEO of Mironov Consulting, as his guest. Rich runs a blog and has been writing for over 20 years about business and the psychology that goes into product management. Together, they discuss ways that Product Management and UX can work more fluidly together.  They dive into how you can bring your team together so everyone is working on the same page. Rich brings some nuggets of advice he has collected over his many years in the industry and touches on the talk he will be giving at Rosenfeld Media’s Design in Product Conference. https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/futures/

How Product Management and UX Can Work Together with Rich Mironov

Authors Maria Giudice & Christopher Ireland join Lou to discuss their new book, Changemakers: How Leaders Can Design Change in an Insanely Complex World, which comes out on January 17.

Get a taste of what they cover in the book, from systems thinking to navigating change, and how to look broadly at patterns to understand the context in which you are establishing change. The authors explain the wide range of industries they drew from in their research and interviews, as well as the highly emotional aspect of changemaking in society today. Bonus: they share some tools you can use to become a changemaker. 

Maria recommends: The Knowledge Project podcast - interviews with an eclectic range of people. Host Shane Parrish is one of the best interviewers Maria has ever heard! https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/  

Christopher recommends: Non-profit Interact Project, which provides free design education to kids in underserved communities. https://www.inneractproject.org/

Get the book: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/changemakers/

Changemakers: How Leaders Can Design Change in an Insanely Complex World

Sheryl is the author of the soon-to-be-released Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/systems-thinking-for-designers/ 

With a background in journalism and political science, and having worked at or with Adaptive Path, Substantial, Frog, Ikea, Microsoft, and the Gates Foundation, Sheryl has an interest in the big picture of systems thinking and how it applies to designers.

Working on projects of enormous scale that could directly or indirectly affect thousands or millions of people can put researchers and designers in a state of paralysis as they realize the potential consequences of their work. Systems thinking can help move us out of that state of paralysis and into one of thought, collaboration, and action.  

Sheryl explains how systems thinking fills the gaps that design thinking alone can leave behind.
  • Expand your scope from the user to anyone who could be affected by the product.
  • Don’t just ask how the product will be used. Asked why the product is needed at all.
  • Expand your thinking. Think broadly about who the stakeholders are and the various contexts that could be impacted by your design.
  • Imagine different solutions that you might not be able to execute, solutions that might require a policy change or a different business model.

An approach like the above will feel slower – at least initially. If you have impatient supervisors and engineers, gain alignment with them by getting them involved in the process.
  • Help them understand the status quo and envision the future.
  • Have them go through the exercise of creating visual maps with you.

What you’ll learn from this episode:
  • The relationship between design and systems thinking
  • How design thinking falls short
  • How systems thinking fills in the gaps by expanding your thinking and looking outside your scope of expertise
  • Why systems thinking feels slower but is more collaborative and more efficient in the long run
  • How to gain alignment with your decision-makers

Quick Reference Guide
[00:00] Introduction
[01:44] Ways to overcome decision paralysis
[04:55] Navigating the complexities of the world through systems thinking
[06:45] The problem with formalized systems thinking
[08:24] Design thinking vs. systems thinking
[13:22] The kinds of interventions that drive successful innovation
[15:42] How long-term thinking helps overcome compliance issues
[17:38] The difference between Cloud Space and Clock Space
[22:10] How designers can tell their superiors to slow down
[25:22] An easy way to gain alignment with your decision-makers
[30:38] Sheryl’s gift to the audience
[32:05] Parting thoughts

Resources and links from today’s episode:
  • The Book of Delights by Ross Gay: https://www.amazon.com/Book-Delights-Essays-Small-Overlook/dp/152934977X/
  • Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers by Sheryl Cababa: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/systems-thinking-for-designers/

Sheryl Cababa on Systems Thinking for Designers

Prayag Narula is the founder and CEO of Marvin, a tool for qualitative researchers. Prayag will also be a speaker at the Advancing Research Conference where he’ll share the stage with Rida Qadri, a research scientist at Google.  

Humans have been doing quantitative research for thousands of years – well, for as long as math has been around. Qualitative research, on the other hand, is fairly new to human history, emerging only in the 20th Century. And qualitative research has taken a backseat to what Prayag calls “the tyranny of math,” the prevailing attitude that if research is not math-based, it’s not valid. But that doesn’t diminish the importance of qualitative data. Decisions at all levels are made based on qualitative data every day. 

Here are some characteristics of qualitative research:
  • Qualitative research is scientific and has been used in the social sciences for scientific discovery for six decades.
  • Qualitative data is highly variable and semi-structured, so creating software for it has enormous challenges.
  • Taking notes and asking questions are inherent parts of qualitative research, and tools that can search and synthesize such data can dramatically enhance productivity and outcomes.

It’s time for qualitative research to be given its due. Enter Marvin.  

Software not only gives validity and legitimacy to qualitative research, it makes it more useful. Marvin uses AI to add context to the conversation and to help with analysis. The tool is free for individuals and teams of two researchers.

Prayag is excited about the use of open AI and ChatGBT. He’s not worried about these tools replacing researchers, but they do give researchers another data point, that is, what AI can glean from the data. AI can help us find patterns that we didn’t see before or might give an interpretation of the data or ask a question that hadn’t been previously considered. With tools like Marvin, it’s an exciting time to be in research. 

What you’ll learn from this episode
  • How software brings legitimacy to processes and data
  • About Marvin,  a tool that “automates the tedious parts of qualitative research” 
  • How AI can augment research
  • What to expect from Prayag’s upcoming talk with Rida Qadri at Advancing Research – “HCI 2.0: Humanity Deserves the Attention that UX Research has to Offer” – which will include implementing technologies in a socially responsible way

Quick Reference Guide
[00:00] Introduction of Prayag
[01:07] Upcoming talk at Advancing Research March 27-29, 2023
[01:29] Prayag gives a history of his entrepreneurial experience
[05:15] Prayag explains why he felt driven to provide a centralized place for data
[08:53] Does having software to support qualitative research contribute to its perceived legitimacy?
[11:00] On the nature of qualitative research being highly variable and semi-structured and what that means when it comes to writing software
[16:12] Break: Rosenfeld Media Communities
[18:16] Prayag describes the Marvin tool, available for free for individual researchers and teams of two 
[0:19:52] The role of AI in research software
[0:25:04] On AI’s ability to synthesize data across various sectors of an organization
[0:29:08] More details Prayag’s upcoming talk with Rida Qadri at Advancing Research in March 
[0:32:33] Prayag’s gift to the audience

Resources and links from today’s episode:
  • HeyMarvin.com
  • Advancing Research 2023: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research-2023/
  • A Tale of Two Cultures: Qualitative and Quantitative Research in Social Sciences by Gary Goertz and James Mahoney: https://www.amazon.com/Tale-Two-Cultures-Qualitative-Quantitative/dp/0691149712
  • Session details for  “HCI 2.0: Humanity Deserves the Attention that UX Research has to Offer”:https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research-2023/sessions/hci-2-0-humanity-deserves-the-attention-that-ux-research-has-to-offer/

Prayag Narula on AI’s Role in Qualitative Research

Jill has been listening to customers and clients for over 20 years. She has worked for organizations like Etsy and Blue Apron, and has since started Field Notes Consulting, a research and strategic planning practice serving both public and private sectors. She is method-agnostic, harnesses full-stack research, and interrogates all data to get to the real data or the root cause.

While hard data and numbers are important, data alone does not equal insight. Making sense of the data often requires listening to customers, human-scale frameworks of things like journeys and experience mapping, and, of course, minimizing researchers’ biases.  It’s often the outside-in perspective that brings it all together to give us insight that will highlight consequences and implications. 

Jill is a champion of what she calls “interventions” and doing interventions across silos. She shares an example from her time at Blue Apron that beautifully illustrates how one research silo can lose direction without insight from other silos. 

Some interventions Jill recommends include:
  • Remember that everyone in the organization is on the same team and after the same goal
  • Encourage observation
  • Bring cross-functional teams together 
  • Fit KPIs and OKRs in the story of the user

Jill will be leading a session, “Inconvenient Insights: The Researcher’s Role is to Stay Curious,” and a workshop, “Holistic Insights: Collapsing Functional Silos for Maximum Impact” at the Advancing Research Conference March 27-29, 2023.

What you’ll learn from this episode:
  • How Jill defines insight and why it won’t be uncovered from hard data alone
  • How “interventions” across silos can help everyone in the organization win
  • A taste of what Jill will cover in her talk and workshop at Advancing Research 2023 

Quick Reference Guide
[00:00] Introduction of Jill
[01:50] Jill’s role at Advancing Research Conference March 27-29th, 2023
[02:27] Jill’s love-hate relationship with data
[07:25] How we get insights from data
[09:36] Lessons from Blue Apron 
[14:13] How to perform or support interventions
[21:54] On interventions outside your area of expertise and considering the interconnectivity of the entire organization
[30:43] Looking back on information and library science school 
[34:52] Jill’s book recommendation
[36:49] Jill’s session and workshop at the upcoming Advancing Research Conference in March

Insights and Interventions with Jill Fruchter

Lisanne Norman  entered the tech field as a UX researcher in 2015 and quickly advanced to lead researcher at Dell, then Visa. She founded Black UX Austin and was the UX lead researcher at Gusto. 

And then she left in 2022. Because she had had enough. And because she wanted to make a difference. She is now co-director of DEI at the Hotchkiss School in Connecticut.

In today’s interview, Lisanne shares her career journey and the tools she acquired in various positions along the way. We get a glimpse of what it’s like to be a Black woman in tech. We also get a hint at what it might take to keep a Black woman (or other individuals from marginalized groups) in the space. We hear of the microaggressions that can and do occur in the workplace, and Lisanne helps us imagine the exhaustion of functioning in such an environment day after day. She has worked in established, entrenched cultures and in young, seemingly flexible startups, and she found that both environments are lacking in their efforts to bring marginalized people groups to the table.     

Lisanne will be sharing more at Advancing Research 2023, March 27-29. Her talk is “Why I Left Research.” 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 • What the UX research world looks like from a Black woman’s point of view
 • The types of microaggressions Lisanne endured in the workplace and public places like airports
 • Why being a marginalized voice at work – even in a young, flexible culture – can be exhausting
 • The difference between culture-fit and culture-add
 • What companies need to do to attract and retain BIPOC employees – and why it’s worth the effort to do so

Quick Reference Guide
 • [00:15] Introduction of Lisanne
 • [01:38] Lisanne explains how she stumbled upon research as a possible career and found herself working for Dell
 • [05:19] Lisanne’s time working directly with Dell as part of their design team and her later transition to Visa 
 • [12:40] Lisanne explains the frustrations she endured at Visa and her switch to a young e-commerce company 
 • [19:13] Feeling weighed down by microaggressions, keeping notes, and educating those who should know better
 • [21:13] Covid, taking a break, Black UX Austin, Gusto, and George Floyd 
 • [27:55] BREAK: Books recently published by Rosenfeld Media  
 • [30:08] On what it would take for Lisanne to get back into UX research
 • [35:01] On the potential of learning from past modules of successful “adding” 
 • [37:41] Lisanne’s gift to our listeners: POCIT (People of Color in Tech)

Lisanne Norman on Why She Left UX Research

Ren Pope has a passion for all things data, information, and knowledge, and he strives to make them more accessible, organized, and enduring. You may be surprised that this conversation about information architecture takes us back to classic Greek philosophy, specifically ontology, which is concerned with the nature of being—that is, what is real and not real. 

What is inside a computer cannot be seen, yet it is real in the sense that it has value and can impact reality. And as a modern ontologist, Ren wants to make information accessible and useful. That often starts with assigning names to things—nouns and verbs to label the functions of an organization so that things can be indexed, searched, retrieved, crosslinked, and so that relationships can be defined through metadata.

It’s a complicated process for small businesses and consultants, and the challenges rise exponentially for enterprises with multiple departments and silos. 

With 60 years of shared experience, Ren and Lou remember when companies were dependent on Excel Spreadsheets and PowerPoint to manage the complexities of a living and evolving organization (many still are!). Today there are multiple options for organizing both structured and unstructured data, and thanks to ontologists like Ren, the tools are getting better.    

Lou and Ren’s discussion spans from the philosophical to the practical. Ren shares some concrete ways to use ontological thinking in your everyday work: 
 • Find all the nouns and verbs your organization uses to describe its functions.
 • Define what you are trying to accomplish. 
 • Focus your scope. The narrower the domain, or the more specific the task, the easier your task will be. If you don’t have a narrow, well-defined scope, you will probably over-collect data. 
 • Find how the nouns and verbs interact. 
 • Have a method for maintaining your data.

Ren will be presenting at the upcoming 2023 Enterprise UX conference June 6-7: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/enterprise-ux-2023/

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 • About classic ontology and how it relates to the digital age
 • How information architecture has evolved over the last 30 years
 • What is ontological thinking and how to incorporate it into your work
 • The relationship between information architects, engineers, and the end user
 • About the upcoming Enterprise UX Conference in June: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/enterprise-ux-2023/

Quick Reference Guide
 • [0:00:58] Introduction of Ren Pope
 • [0:02:17] Ontologist vs information architect vs interactive designer vs knowledge manager
 • [0:06:00] Ontology within organizations and particular challenges for enterprises
 • [0:09:50] Metadata for structured and unstructured data
 • [0:14:01] LLM summaries, single metadata terms, abstracts, summaries – they all have their place and all can work together
 • [0:18:50] How normal people can benefit from ontology or better IA at an enterprise level
 • [0:23:28] Data needs to be captured, managed, and represented 
 • [0:27:41] A glimpse of the back-in-the-day solutions, like Excel Spreadsheets and PowerPoint, and how far we’ve come
 • [0:29:40] The scale of volume and complexity of the enterprise environment keeps growing. Is technology keeping up?
 • [0:35:08] Ren’s gift to the audience – Mettle Health: https://www.mettlehealth.com

Ren Pope on Ontology in the Digital Age

Erica Jorgensen is one of Rosenfeld Media’s newest authors with the publication of her book, Strategic Content Design: Tools and Research Techniques for Better UX. ( https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/strategic-content-design/ ) With a background in journalism, her book draws on her experiences as a content designer with  the likes of Chewy, Microsoft, Slack, Amazon, Starbucks, Nordstrom, and Expedia. 

Erica’s book is a toolkit of research techniques for anyone struggling to create content that makes an impact. Not all companies have dedicated research budgets or teams, yet research can save us from redos and yield more targeted, effective content. 

Without research, you may be flying blind without even realizing it. We assume the words and phrases on our websites and apps are effective, and a little due diligence can confirm those assumptions or enlighten us about something that was previously completely outside our awareness. 

Erica warns us to be prepared because content research will open proverbial cans of worms. False assumptions will be exposed, and what you learn may take your work in unexpected directions. Oftentimes, the whole company will need to get on board when language has to be changed or cleaned up. 

In a nutshell, content research will expose problems. But it will help you make progress, and the payoff is worth it.  


What you’ll learn from this episode:
 • About Erica’s career journey in content design
 • Case study: The impact of one company’s confusing language, and how content research came to the rescue
 • How to incorporate content research into non-research roles
 • How to prioritize and strategize content research
 • How to harness content audits to highlight what needs attention
 • Why it’s important to present your team’s work in the most flattering light possible

Erica Jorgensen on Tools and Techniques for Testing your Content

Boon Yew Chew is senior principal UX designer at Elsevier and an IxDA local leader and board alumn. He will be a speaker at the upcoming 2023 Enterprise UX  Conference on June 6th and 7th, delivering a session on “Making Sense of Systems – and Using Systems to Make Sense of the Enterprise.”

Systems thinking can seem abstract and theoretical, but Boon reveals some unexpected ways that systems thinking can have a profound impact on individuals and relationships within organizations. Who knew that systems thinking could be an emotional intelligence tool?

Lou and Boon begin today’s episode by discussing the history of systems thinking and how it developed in the ‘40s and ‘50s, mostly within scientific communities, and grew into other fields and disciplines.  It offered a new way of thinking about how things develop and change over time. 

Boon goes on to describe his path into systems thinking and how, with its holistic, big-picture perspective, there is little room for blaming individuals when problems are viewed through a systems thinking lens. A system can give context to the behavior or clashes within an organization and alleviate frustration. Believe it or not, systems thinking can be a relationally lubricating tool.

Systems thinking can help us answer the following:  
 • Where do I fit?
 • Where do the people I’m serving, working with, developing with, and creating for fit within the system? 
 • How is the organization I’m part of itself part of a bigger system?  

A summary of Boon’s insights:
 • Systems thinking helps us understand context, empathize, and understand other people and the context they work in
 • Systems thinking provides a visual language that other people can learn from
 • Language can help reveal not just problems, but how problems relate to each other even when they may not seem connected
 • Systems thinking is a tool that can help with prioritization

What you’ll learn from this episode
The history of systems thinking, especially how it first developed within scientific communities 
The differences between systems and design thinking
How systems thinking can reduce finger-pointing and relational conflict
Why it’s best to embrace messy differences as part of the process
How to bring systems thinking into the workplace without confusing or alienating others

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:12] Introduction of Boon Yew Chew
[0:02:31] System thinking versus design thinking
[0:04:44] The history of systems thinking
[0:08:51] Being trained in one framework and finding it incomplete in the real world
[0:10:32] Boon explains how he navigated towards systems thinking
[0:16:12] When you feel like your goals are clashing with those of others in the organization
[0:19:08] On labels, understanding, reducing friction, and acceptance
[0:22:16] Enterprise UX 2023 is back!
[0:24:19] Boon’s Enterprise UX talk is titled “Making Sense of Systems and Using Systems to Make Sense of the Enterprise.” Applied aspects of how UX people are using systems thinking in enterprises
[0:27:17] Boon “eats his own dog food” and does “double work” 
[0:27:52] An example of what success might look like
[0:31:45] A summary of how Boon uses systems thinking
[0:35:29] Boon’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
 • The Fifth Discipline: The Art and Practice of the Learning Organization by Peter Senge: https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-Organization/dp/0385517254
 • Enterprise UX 2023: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/enterprise-ux-2023/ 
 • Systems Innovation Network, a community of systems practitioners run by systems practitioners: https://www.systemsinnovation.network/

Boon Yew Chew on Systems Thinking as a Relational Tool

Not too long ago, Donna Lichaw, author of The User’s Journey, was helping companies solve product problems by organizing the experience of a product or service into a narrative arc where the user is the hero. 

Then she ran into a question that she couldn’t shake — a question that, once answered, would morph her business from product development to leadership development. The question unveiled a people problem rather than a product problem. 

“We don’t have problems bringing products into the world. We have problems getting along with everyone, feeling good about our work, building team morale, dealing with internal fighting. We’ve been helping our customers be heroes. How can I be a hero?”

Over seven years of researching how to help leaders be heroes, she found inspiration in a variety of places, including Gestalt therapy, narrative therapy, and executive and somatic coaching.

Her conclusion can be found in her new book, The Leaders Journey: Transforming Your Leadership to Achieve the Extraordinary. Think of the book as a map for people to become the natural leaders they already are and can be through a process of radical acceptance that leads to real, lasting change. People grow into superhero leaders when they fully embrace themselves — strengths and weaknesses.  

Donna’s approach to leadership is a refreshing departure from the typical advice of talk louder, take up more space, and listen more. This is a different — a journey that is unique to each individual. 
 • Discover your superpowers. When you’re not leveraging your superpowers at work, you’re not as powerful as you could be. When you contain your superpowers, you’ll feel sad, depressed, and restricted. 
 • Know your kryptonite too. When you understand the “why” behind your weaknesses, you’ll often find a superpower underneath. By embracing your quirks and appreciating how they serve you, you’ll open yourself to insights about how to move forward. 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 • Why Donna felt compelled to transition her business into leadership coaching
 • About the two books Donna has written for Rosenfeld Media
 • Why one-size-fits-all leadership programs are a dead end
 • How appreciating your weaknesses can lead to self-discovery and growth

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:51] Introduction of Donna Lichaw and a brief summary of her book The User’s Journey
[0:02:23] About the origins of The Leader’s Journey: Transforming Your Leadership to Achieve the Extraordinary, Donna’s new book
[0:03:10] Donna recalls leading a workshop that raised an important question
[0:07:44] Looking for inspiration and resources to answer the question, “How can I be a hero?”
[0:11:24] Finding value in everything, yet recognizing what is less helpful
[0:13:57] Dealing with leadership stereotypes and churn
[0:19:10] Enterprise UX 2023
[0:21:15] All leaders have superpowers and kryptonite
[0:26:06] Leaning into your personal kryptonite 
[0:30:25] How the adult film industry and literary smut fit into all of this
[0:35:06] Donna’s gift for listeners – access to her work!

Resources and links from today’s episode:
 • Enterprise UX 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/enterprise-ux-2023/
 • Donna’s amazing toolkit https://www.donnalichaw.com/toolkit
 • The Leader’s Journey: Transforming Your Leadership to Achieve the Extraordinary by Donna Lichaw  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/leaders-journey/
 • The User’s Journey: Storymapping Products that People Love by Donna Lichaw https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/storymapping/

Donna Lichaw on Leadership Superpowers and Kryptonite

Jenae Cohn is executive director at the Center for Teaching and Learning at UC Berkeley and, along with Michael Greer, author of the new book Design for Learning: User Experience in Online Teaching and Learning. Jenae and Michael’s book helps designers create compelling educational content. Think of it as required reading for anyone designing an online course, webinar, training, or workshop. 
Designing a platform intended to educate goes beyond traditional UX design. 

Jenae’s book does the following:
• Looks at the science behind learning and articulates how to help someone be a learner
• Helps designers understand the complex array of needs that learners have and create more purposeful learning experiences 

Learning is motivated by social interactions and emotions. In fact, the learning process is typically social, and most are motivated knowing that they’re not learning in isolation but in or for community. Designers should capitalize on these motivations. 

Tips for making online learning more social:
• Take “temperature” checks throughout the course – for example, a poll or quiz 
• Allow comments on shared artifacts and shared annotation
• Prompt discussions and assign roles if needed 
• Remember that a webinar will not necessarily create a social experience

As designers get started on creating online instructional material, Jenae reminds them to be kind to themselves. After all, designing for learners is an iterative learning process. Also, it’s critical to create checkpoints and opportunities along the way to garner feedback. With the aid of Jenae and Michael’s book, we can depart from the days of dull online courses and make them truly vibrant spaces of growth.

What you’ll learn from this episode
• Why typical online learning platforms are so dull and what can be done differently to make them more engaging and compelling
• How instructional designers and UX designers can learn from one another
• How designers can make online learning more social 
• How designers can know if they’re meeting their goals

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:21] Introduction of Jenae Cohn
[0:01:41] Design for Learning – Why we need a UX book for learning/teaching products
[0:05:17] Why UX designers may be surprised by what they didn’t know about designing with learning in mind
[0:08:58] What instructional designers can learn from UX designers
[0:12:14] Hybrid environments in learning products 
[0:15:07] DesignOps Summit – Oct 2-6, 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designopssummit2023/
[0:16:13] Learning is social – how to help online learners stay engaged 
[0:24:58] How a designer can determine if their learners have had a good outcome
[0:30:40] Advice for designers moving into the learning design space
[0:33:29] Jenae’s gift to listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design for Learning: User Experience in Online Teaching and Learning by Jenae Cohen and Michael Greer https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/design-for-learning/
The UX of Educational Technology Community https://www.uxedtech.com

Jenae Cohn on Designing for Learning

Jay Bustamante has always been about conserving time and resources by building tight processes to create efficiencies in his life and work. In all the jobs and positions he’s held, he would notice gaps, consult with stakeholders, find solutions, and fill those gaps. Eventually he learned there is a name for this type of work: DesignOps. Today Jay is a DesignOps leader and an experienced strategist at VMware. And he’ll be a speaker at the October 2023 DesignOps Summit. 

When it comes to streamlining and building efficiencies, AI seems like a no-brainer, right? Not so fast. AI brings big expectations and can result in a lot of frustration if proper groundwork isn’t laid. DesignOps teams that proactively facilitate collaboration between engineers, business teams, end users, and other stakeholders can save time, money, and greatly increase the likelihood of a successful product that will reflect the company’s values. 

In this episode, Jay and Lou explore the following concerning AI:
• Good data makes all the difference
• Why AI can easily reinforce existing biases 
• Why case studies and knowing the most impactful need are crucial
• Setting proper expectations
• Why Design’s role is to slow things down and to make sure that the right people are invited to the conversation, that the right questions are asked, and that all voices are heard early in the process. 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
• How Jay got where he is today
• How to slow down the development of AI solutions to avoid ethical and technical snafus
• Which voices need to be at the planning table
• How DesignOps can steer the design boat and keep everyone on the same page with the same goals
• How companies (even big ones like Amazon) can get tripped up when AI reinforces biases
  
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:25] Introduction of Jay and the October 2-4 Design Ops Summit
[0:02:11] Jay’s professional journey into design ops
[0:05:36] Jay joined VMware to do strategy work and ended up doing design ops work  
[0:07:35] AI in a design ops context
[0:10:32] An example from Amazon of AI-aided hiring gone wrong
[0:15:39] Design Ops Summit – October 2-4, 2023
[0:17:01] On being proactive with use cases and identifying red flags and slowing down
[0:22:13] On being careful with data
[0:25:43] On bringing voices together and being a facilitator 
[0:28:09] Jay’s gift to listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
DesignOps Assembly - https://www.designopsassembly.com/ 
AI Fairness 360 by IBM - https://www.ibm.com/opensource/open/projects/ai-fairness-360/ 
Fairkit-Learn (Python)- https://pypi.org/project/fairkit-learn/
DesignOps Summit 2023 - https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designopssummit2023

Bringing Voices to the Table for DesignOps with Jay Bustamante

Zariah Cameron is Co-Director of Community + Research and the founder of AEI – Advocate, Educate, Innovate Black Design. She will be a speaker at October’s DesignOps Summit on streamlining an inclusive design practice. 

Many companies and corporations have good intentions when it comes to inclusive design. But too often that’s where things both start and stop. Zariah helps companies operationalize their inclusive design principles and ideals by looking at design from all angles and instilling effective processes. 

When exploring ideals of equity and inclusivity, many confuse inclusivity with accessibility. Accessibility is a fine place to start, but it’s just the beginning. Accessibility tends to be passive while inclusivity is active. Inclusive design proactively seeks out the marginalized, the underserved, and minority groups. It doesn’t make assumptions but seeks input, feedback, and follow-through. 

For many companies, the most effective way to pursue inclusive design is to work with grassroots organizations. Partnering with such organizations provides corporations access to a diverse pool of participants. It’s a process of co-creation and involves a long-haul-relationship mentality.  

Zariah mentions a variety of organizations that design teams could partner with to access diverse talent:
Creative Reaction Lab
Pause and Effect
Aroko Cooperative – seeking equity, liberation, community healing, and ecocentricy

What you’ll learn from this episode:
About Zariah’s talk at the upcoming October 2024 DesignOps Summit
How inclusive design differs from accessibility
How companies can proactively partner with organizations to access a wide range of underserved and marginalized participants 

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:37] Introduction of Zariah
[0:02:04] Inclusive design
[0:04:11] An example of a principle that needs to be operationalized
[0:05:25] How to take a more operational approach to inclusive design
[0:08:04] Inclusivity is active, not passive. It’s also relational.
[0:14:18] Inclusivity is relational and communal 
[0:15:03] More on the AEI organization
[0:17:24] Other work with HBCU students
[0:19:40] A reminder about the October 2-4 DesignOps Summit
[0:20:48] Organizations to partner with to advance inclusivity and equity
[0:24:21] Zariah’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Creative Reaction Lab - https://crxlab.org/ 
Pause and Effect - https://www.pauseandeffect.ca/ 
Aroko Cooperative - https://www.aroko.coop/
State of the Black Design Conference in March 2024 - https://www.thesobd.com/ 
DesignOps Assembly - https://www.designopsassembly.com/

A Proactive Approach to Inclusive Design with Zariah Cameron

Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin will be speakers at the upcoming DesignOps Summit on October 2-4, 2023. Their talk, “Cultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and Collaboration,” will showcase the intersection of care-centeredness and design operations. 

Lauren has wanted to be a designer since she was in third grade. What kind of designer? An “everything” designer! From a young age, she embraced the idea that “you can design anything” from fashion to environments to moods and feelings. Today she employs ethical research practices and co-design to shift power and amplify youth voices, design toys, and bring play into her work at Ideo Play Lab.

Mayed has a social service and social impact background. Through a community-oriented storytelling approach, they co-lead strategy and research at Cause and Affect, a relational design consultancy in Canada.  

Lauren and Mayed’s partnership began with conversations and exploration about what they could do to shift power dynamics and create more cohesive and engaging designs for all. The biggest hindrance, say Lauren and Mayed, is power hierarchies. Design leaders need to critically think about social identities, institutional positions, and other complexities and dimensions. How power shows up in our practices is always shifting and changing, and decentralizing power has to be an ongoing and emergent process.

And it all starts with ideas and conversations.  Mayed and Lauren have found that speculative design is a powerful way to reflect on the “now” and dream about what the future could look like. All real-world shifts begin with ideas, relationships, and conversations. These elements are at the heart of design. 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 - About Lauren and Mayed’s backgrounds
 - How their partnership came about
 - About the talk titled “Cultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and 
 - Collaboration” that they will deliver at October’s DesignOps Summit
 - About power hierarchies in design and what design leaders can do to help decentralize power
 - About the role and potential of speculative design


Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:19] Introduction of Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin
[0:01:03] Mayed and Lauren’s backgrounds
[0:05:53] The working partnership between Mayed and Lauren
[0:08:45] Power hierarchies and design
[0:11:56] The DesignOps leader’s role
[0:15:26] Alternative means of engagement
[0:18:36] DesignOps Summit, October 2-6, 2023
[0:19:59] A care-centered approach to the future through establishing patterns
[0:24:37] Mayed and Lauren’s gifts for the audience

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Ideo Play Lab – https://ideoplaylab.com/
Cause + Affect – https://causeandaffect.com/
Planet Justice Textbook from Slow Factory – https://shop.slowfactory.earth/products/planet-justice-textbook
“The Mind-Body Check for Radical Research” Google doc - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OBViDEMBh9lYndX-_gNI_5LNMPfMFhCA-Mek6M-VnGI/edit
DesignOps Assembly - https://www.designopsassembly.com/

Decentralizing Power through Design with Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin

Believe it or not, Steve Portigal’s UX research classic Interviewing Users came out ten years ago, back in 2013. A few things about user research have changed since then, to put it mildly, so we at Rosenfeld did two things: we convinced Steve to write a second edition (coming out October 17), and to join us on the Rosenfeld Review to discuss all the things that have changed.

In addition to being an author, Steve is a user researcher, consultant, and teacher. He helps companies grow their businesses, culture, and brands by interviewing users. He also helps companies build more mature in-house research practices.  

Having been on both sides of the interviewing process – as both interviewer and interviewee – Steve can empathize with both roles. Over the last decade, he has seen user research evolve from a focus on consumer products to company culture and supportive technologies in the B2B space. 

Effective research, in addition to data gathering, involves analysis and synthesis. Steve defines analysis as breaking bigger things into smaller things and synthesis as putting what was broken down back together into a new framework, or insight. This is where the magic of research happens. A chapter dedicated to the art of analysis and synthesis is one of the profound additions to this latest edition of his book.

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 - About Interviewing Users and what’s new in the second edition
 - About Steve’s work as a researcher, author, and consultant and how his work has shifted over the last decade
 - Changes in the research field and why most of us are researchers to one degree or another, even if it’s not in your title or job description
 - How analysis and synthesis are different and why both are needed for insights
 - About the “We already knew that” response many researchers get and what it really means 

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:19] Introduction of Steve Portigal
[0:04:30] Experience on both sides of the interview process
[0:08:06] Shifts in language and jargon Steve has noted over the last decade 
[0:12:13] The evolution of user research – less with consumers and more within businesses or B2B
[0:15:10] Speculation on where the leading edge of user research will be – or perhaps more importantly, who will be doing it – in another 10  years
[0:19:02] Rosenfeld Media Communities
[0:21:17] What’s new in the 2nd Edition version of Interviewing Users – analysis, synthesis, and insights
[0:28:38] “We already knew that” phenomenon that researchers often encounter
[0:32:20] Steve’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Interviewing Users (2nd edition) by Steve Portigal https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/interviewing-users-second-edition/ 
Doorbells, Danger, and Dead Batteries: User Research War Stories by Steve Portigal https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/user-research-war-stories/ 
“How-to with John Wilson” on HBO https://www.hbo.com/how-to-with-john-wilson

Creating Insights through Analysis and Synthesis with Steve Portigal

While we’ve been developing design systems for years, we’re only just now learning how to create systems that are successful and sustainable. Dan Mall is the author of the soon-to-be released Design That Scales: Creating a Sustainable Design System Practice, which explores the cultural elements that contribute to sustainable design systems.  

Not surprisingly, it’s usually pain that motivates change. In fact, companies occupying the number one spot in their respective markets usually have the least incentive  to change. As the saying goes, “Number two tries harder.” But even in the most-ready-for-change scenarios, design systems sit, at best, at a third level of priority. Dan asserts that the challenge is to approach design systems as a byproduct of the products and features that bring customers value. Otherwise, design systems will always be on the backburner. 

Dan and Lou discuss tricky topics around design systems:
 - Designers’ fear of job loss to design systems.
 - As we move toward sustainable design systems, who should make the decisions? Who does what and when? 
 - How to approach design systems in a sustainable way.
 - The best way for product and systems teams to collaborate.
 
What you’ll learn from this episode:
 - Why culture, rather than product maturity, will determine whether design systems are successful
 - How to address fears of job loss as a result of design systems
 - How to keep people motivated through a systems change
 - How product and design teams can work together efficiently
 - How design systems have changed over time
 - The role of governance in systems change
 - Why following precedent within your company will get you farther faster

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:32] Introduction of Dan Mall and his book Design that Scales – Creating a Sustainable Design System Practice
[0:04:49] On reaching cultural alignment
[0:07:01] What prompts design systems change 
[0:09:26] When jobs feel threatened
[0:12:21] Cultural signs and markers of design system success 
[0:16:59] November 29th, 2023 – Design in Product Conference
[0:18:20] On governance and sustainability
[0:24:44] On collaboration between product and design teams
[0:27:33] The evolution of design systems for ICs
[0:30:35] Design Systems University
[0:32:38] Dan’s gift to listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design in Product Conference on November 29, 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product
Design Systems University https://designsystem.university/ 
The Useful School https://usefulschool.com

Pain and Curiosity Precede Successful Design Systems Change with Dan Mall

Jorge Arango is an Information architect, author, and educator, and he’s written a new book, Duly Noted, about the age-old practice of notetaking. 

If you’re like me, you’ve been taking notes since your school days. Back then, we used notebooks, a Trapper Keeper, and sticky notes – anything that could help us ace a test, remember important tidbits, and consolidate ideas. Notes are an extension of the mind. But it was always a headache to organize them, synthesize them, and recall them at the right time.  

Enter the digital age – which tried to improve on the humble art of notetaking, but apps like Notes and Stickies tried to replicate digitally what we were using in the real world. Newer apps like Obsidian let go of real-world metaphors by utilizing three principles: shorter notes, connecting your notes, and nurturing your notes to build a knowledge garden that will serve you for the rest of your life. 

If you bring value to the world through your thinking, you have the responsibility to look after your thinking apparatus. Duly Noted will augment, magnify, and extend your capacity to think well. Externalizing your mental processes is one of the most powerful means we have to think better. If used well, the humble note will help you be a better thinker and a more effective human.

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 - A history of notetaking tools
 - Why notetaking is a personal endeavor
 - How digital notetaking tools have evolved
 - About Jorge’s new book and how, upon reading it, you just might become a better thinker and increase your effectiveness

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:12] Introduction of Jorge and his books
[0:01:18] Introduction of Jorge’s new book on taking notes and creating a knowledge garden, Duly Noted
[0:09:47] Books that will make you a better knowledge worker
[0:14:14] Design in Product Conference 
[0:15:35] Managing knowledge with computers
[0:26:03] Knowledge as a garden
[0:28:09] On tools for nurturing a knowledge garden
[0:33:08] How Jorge uses AI with Obsidian
[0:36:37] Jorge’s gift for listeners 

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Information Architecture for the Web and Beyond by Louis Rosenfeld, Peter Morville, and Jorge Arango  https://www.amazon.com/Information-Architecture-Beyond-Louis-Rosenfeld/dp/1491911689 
Living in Information: Responsible Design for Digital Places by Jorge Arango  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/living-in-information/ 
Duly Noted by Jorge Arango  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/duly-noted-extend-your-mind-through-connected-notes/
O’Reilly’s book Mind Hacks by Tom Stafford  https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/mind-hacks/0596007795/ 
Tools for Thought by Howard Rheingold  www.rheingold.com/texts/tft/ 
Design in Product Conference, November 29 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/ 
Roam Research https://roamresearch.com/ 
Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ 
The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain by Annie Murphy Paul https://anniemurphypaul.com/books/the-extended-mind/ 
Figure it Out: Getting from Information to Understanding by Karl Fast and Stephen Anderson https://www.amazon.com/Figure-Out-Getting-Information-Understanding-ebook/dp/B085412Q1X 
Build a PKG (Personal Knowledge Garden) Workshop https://buildapkg.com

Taking Notes and Nurturing Your Knowledge Garden with Jorge Arango

Today’s interview is just a taste of what you’ll learn at Rosenfeld’s upcoming Design in Product conference—featuring John Cutler’s closing keynote. John is the senior director of product management at Toast, a doodler, a former band member, a UX researcher, and business analyst. He’s also the prolific writer behind “The Beautiful Mess, a Substack newsletter with over 36,000 subscribers, where he writes about cross-functional product management—especially the messy parts. 

As someone who likes “messy, creative endeavors” and building things with other people,  John enjoys unpacking the complicated parts of collaboration, getting to the heart of messes, and finding a way forward involves much more than identifying patterns. 

John finds that each person’s frame or perspective is only one of many. This is one reason the relationship between product and design is a complicated ecosystem, and the whole system—not just a part—needs to evolve together.    
In an effort to reach consensus across teams, John notes that it’s easy to fall into the alignment trap where the so-called alignment is fragile and where consensus becomes more valued than a true solution.  John encourages listeners to get comfortable with the complicated mess, to truly listen to multiple frames and perspectives while holding onto their own, and then to roll up their sleeves and explore a way forward together. 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
About John’s background and his brief stint in a band that opened for others
About the upcoming Design in Product conference
About the messiness of product development and problem-solving
About avoiding the traps of alignment and over-simplification

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:24] Introduction of John Cutler and Design in Product 2023, and the back story behind “The Beautiful Mess”
[0:05:01] Patterns in messes
[0:10:23] The relationship between product and design
[0:14:11] Dealing with varying work speeds and perspectives 
[0:20:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023
[0:21:45] The alignment trap and the simplification trap
[0:30:50] A new metaphor for looking at teams in organizations
[0:34:04] John’s special words for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design in Product 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/ 
The Beautiful Mess, John Culter’s Substack https://cutlefish.substack.com/
Images of Organization by Gareth Morgan https://www.amazon.com/Images-Organization-Gareth-Morgan/dp/0761906320/

The Beautiful Mess of Product Development with John Cutler

Have you ever felt like the product people want to move too fast? You realize that speed is important, but the quality of the product is going to suffer and the results are going to disappoint.

Or have you ever wished you had a seat at the table during the initial strategy sessions of a new project, rather than being brought in mid-stream?
Do you feel intimidated when talking to the folks on the business and finance side of your organization?

If so, this episode is for you. Ellen Chisa has a background in engineering and an MB. She is a founder, venture capitalist, and partner at boldstart ventures. In short, she has to care about the business side of things. But she also cares about user-oriented product design, and she wants the voices of those in the design space to be heard.

The best place to start, she asserts, might be by listening and learning. Ellen encourages designers to familiarize themselves with their organization’s business models and financials. If you’re feeling squirmy about that prospect, Ellen lays out a workable approach that will put both you and the business analyst at ease. 

Ellen’s goal is to help you create more business impact while still feeling like a designer.  Ellen will be the opening keynote at the November 29 Design in Product virtual conference.  

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 - About Ellen Chisa’s background, her current position, and the contribution she’ll make at the Design in Product Conference 2023
 - Where Ellen sees the future going—combining APIs with generative AI
 - Why designers will benefit from learning about the business and financial side of their organization
 - How a designer can approach a business person with ease and curiosity
 - A strategy for getting a seat at the table for the initial strategy sessions of a project

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:20] Introduction of Ellen Chisa and Design in Product Conference
[0:02:22] The double diamond approach to design
[0:04:09] Potent combinations of design tools
[0:05:02] Ellen looking ahead at where technology will go
[0:07:08] Creating more business impact while still feeling like a designer
[0:09:45] How to get a financial toolkit for designers
[0:12:08] Accessible metrics for non-business people
[0:17:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023 
[0:19:02] Feeling like a designer and building a coalition
[0:21:12] How to slow the cadence
[0:23:04] Is it better to focus on revenue and growth or derisking?
[0:25:09] Advice for those who feel reserved about approaching others
[0:27:06] Ellen’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design in Product Conference 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/ 
Readwise – save notes from books https://readwise.io/ 
Obsidian https://obsidian.md/

Creating a More Impactful Business While Still Feeling Like a Designer with Ellen Chisa

Harry Max is an executive coach, consultant, and hands-on product design and development leader. He’s also the author of the forthcoming Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions.

For individuals, teams, and organizations, from managing things, people, places, rules, activities, and projects, Harry’s new book Managing Priorities gets to the heart of how we prioritize and make and implement decisions, whether one-off or events that happen on a regular basis. 

Harry uses DEGAP, a design-thinking framework that he says he didn’t invent but discovered, to explain how successful organizations and leaders set, implement, and execute priorities. DEGAP closes the gap between a current state and a desired state:
D - decide 
E - Engage (commit to the process)
G - gather (collect information and items to prioritize)
A - arrange (sort and create frameworks)
P - prioritize

Harry and Lou also discuss the importance of flexible thinking (a superpower of designers) when it comes to prioritization, communication, and implementation. 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
 - How Harry went from technical writer to designer to executive coach to SXSW speaker to author
 - What DEGAP is, why it makes a difference when dealing with prioritization, and how Harry discovered it
 - Why DEGAP is like a design-thinking framework
 - The unique prioritization challenges designers face
 - The unique gifts designers bring to addressing prioritization

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:26] Introduction of Harry 
[0:01:59] A discussion on prioritization
[0:04:27] Orders of prioritization
[0:07:39] Distinguishing priorities of the individual, team, and organization – DEGAP
[0:12:26] More about DEGAP at the individual and organizational levels
[0:15:39] Advancing Research 2024, March 25-27
[0:17:13] Review of Harry’s career path
[0:23:47] Unique prioritization challenges for designers
[0:26:25] Harry’s gift for the listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max
Advancing Research Conference 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/
4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman https://www.amazon.com/Four-Thousand-Weeks-Management-Mortals/dp/0374159122
Oliver Burkeman’s Maestro course https://www.bbcmaestro.com/courses/Oliver%20Burkeman/time-management

Harry Max on Managing Priorities

Author, researcher, speaker, and frequent Rosenfeld Review guest Steve Portigal joins Lou for a chat on the state of the user research industry – where we’ve been, where we are, and where we’re headed. If the field of research was once a lonely desert, today it’s a jungle. It was once a field where researchers could get lost and forgotten. Today, the field is teaming with life—so much so that you could get eaten alive. 

Gleaning lessons from the past, Steve doesn’t want us to forget the desert. But he has no desire to return there. 

In his chat with Lou, they look back, and they look ahead. They discuss shifts in community and networking, and how research agencies are being replaced by in-house research teams.  Finally, the two discuss Steve’s role in the upcoming, in-person Advancing Research conference in Queens, New York. 

What you’ll learn from this episode:
How the world of user research has evolved over the last 25 years from a widely-respected industry expert
How the research industry has shifted from agency-based work to in-sourcing
About Steve’s work, career, and books
About the upcoming, in-person Advancing Research Conference 
About Steve’s role in past Advancing Research Conferences
 
Quick Reference Guide:
[0:00:29] Introduction of Steve
[0:02:50] “Dog fooding”, preparation, and collaboration that happens before conferences
[0:09:30] Comparing the user research field and community now to how it was 25 years ago. 
[0:16:22] The evolution of networking, connections, and community
[0:23:09] Shifts and pivots Steve has seen over the last 25 years in the user research field
[0:30:32] Writing it down and moving on
[0:35:13] Plug for Advancing Research Conference, including Steve’s role
[0:36:27] Steve’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Steve Portigal’s Rosenfeld Media books:  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/people/steve-portigal/ 
Advancing Research Conference (March 25-27): https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/
Steve’s website: https://Portigal.com  
The Wok: Recipes and Techniques by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt: https://www.amazon.com/Wok-Techniques-J-Kenji-L%C3%B3pez-Alt/dp/0393541215

The Evolution of User Research with Steve Portigal

In the latest episode of the Rosenfeld Review, Lou sits down with Neil Barrie, the co-founder and CEO of TwentyFirstCenturyBrand, to delve into the intriguing intersection of brand building, culture, and user experience research. Neil, an outsider in the realm of user research, brings a fresh perspective from the world of brand research; you can hear more from him at the Advancing Research 2024 conference in New York City, March 25-26.

Neil emphasizes the need for researchers to adopt a cultural lens when designing product experiences. Drawing from his extensive experience working with influential brands like Airbnb, Bumble, Headspace, and others, Neil suggests that by understanding and leveraging wider cultural factors, researchers can break free from the incremental nature of product development and create more memorable, distinctive, and influential brands.

The conversation touches upon the "wind tunnel effect," where products and services, much like cars in the 90s, risk becoming efficient but less distinctive. Neil argues that by paying attention to cultural factors and experiences, researchers can uncover breakthroughs that go beyond the interchangeable norms of the industry.

Neil’s insights highlight the transformative potential of cultural understanding in user research, offering researchers a valuable lens to navigate the ever-evolving landscape of product experiences.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:
 - The importance of adopting a cultural lens in user research to achieve breakthroughs
 - The concept of the "wind tunnel effect" and its impact on product development
 - Examples from brands like Pinterest, showcasing the power of cultural understanding in shaping user experiences
 - The dialogue mapping technique for evaluating how brands communicate certain themes and how people perceive them

Quick Reference Guide:
[0:11] - Lou’s introduction of Neil Barrie
[3:03] - A discussion on the wind tunnel effect in research
[4:24] - Frameworks for understanding culture
[5:41] - Examples from Pinterest
[11:29] - Plug for Advancing Research 2024
[13:23] - The tools of a brand strategy expert
[17:18] - One challenge, multiple perspectives
[19:29] - Reconciling disconnects in research
[22:00] - The qualities needed for this type of research
[24:13] - Neil’s gift for the audience

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Advancing Research 2024, New York City, March 25-27, 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/
A Colorful View From the Top – a book featuring candid interviews with luminaries of color who made it to the top in various fields. https://www.amazon.com/Colourful-View-Top-Twenty-One-Extraordinary/dp/1408715791/
The Deluge by Stephen Markley https://www.amazon.com/Audible-The-Deluge/dp/B0B4YTWP7K/

Decoding Culture: A Lens for Research Breakthroughs with Neil Barrie

We hear a lot about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but you probably haven’t heard it like this. Nigerian-born Victor Udoewa, service design lead at the Centers for Disease Control's Office of Public Health Data, Surveillance, and Technology, brings a beautiful perspective that challenges current research methodologies. 

Victor introduces the notion of the pluriverse, emphasizing that people inhabit different worlds with unique ways of being and knowing. He draws attention to the diverse perspectives that shape people's beliefs and understanding, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging and bridging these gaps.

He also uses a tree as a metaphor, in which the roots are ways of being, the trunk ways of knowing, and the branches and leaves are methodologies and methods. The metaphor suggests that inclusive research should not just focus on the green parts of the tree but what’s underneath the surface, getting to the very roots of being.

Recognizing the limitations of mainstream research toolkits and critiquing methodologies grounded in Western ways of being, Victor proposes that truly inclusive research goes far beyond having diverse teams study diverse audiences.

This episode is just a taste of Victor’s talk at the upcoming in-person Advancing Research Conference, “Beyond Methods and Diversity: The Roots of Inclusion.”

What You'll Learn from this Episode:
 - The Pluriverse Concept: The idea that the world comprises multiple realities, ways of being, and existences
 - Standpoint Theory: The idea that individuals at the bottom of a social hierarchy possess a knowledge that is inaccessible to those at higher levels
 - Victor’s Tree Metaphor: Roots symbolize ways of being, the trunk represents ways of knowing, and branches and leaves denote methodologies and methods
 - Radical Participatory Research: Allowing research to emerge organically from the ways of being of the community involved

Quick Reference Guide:
[00:10] Meet Victor Udoewa
[02:16] About Victor’s talk at Advancing Research 
[04:26] The pluriverse and asymmetry of knowledge
[11:20] Social hierarchy, ways of being, and methodology
[12:52] The tree metaphor - getting to the roots
[22:20] Research starting with a way of being
[26:47] Cultural individualism on research
[33:02] Victor’s gift for listeners

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Songlines by Bruce Chatwin https://www.amazon.com/Songlines-Bruce-Chatwin/dp/0140094296 
Decolonizing Methodologies by Linda Tuhiwai Smith  https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/decolonizing-methodologies-9781786998125/ 
Advancing Research 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

The Roots of Inclusion with Victor Udoewa

In the latest episode of the Rosenfeld Review, Lou sits down with social scientist Tricia Wang, coiner of the term “thick data,” and formerly a partner at  Sudden Compass. Tricia is passionate about research and AI. She envisions massively improved research outcomes and opportunities for researchers, but only if researchers take the lead in incorporating AI into their work. Rather than seeing themselves as “users” of AI tools, researchers must work as AI’s “shapers,” serving as its senior partner.

Tricia’s vision is to cease the fear-mongering surrounding the subject of AI and instead embrace the amazing opportunities for growth and better work by becoming active in the control of AI’s future. 

What You'll Learn from this Episode:
 - The truth about the potential for AI use in research and the gift that it actually is
 - The difference between a “user” and a “shaper” in the digital age
 - The importance of taking an active role in the development of AI in the future
 - How being an asset class dehumanizes us as people

Quick Reference Guide: 
[0:16] - Lou’s introduction of Tricia Wang
[2:52] - Tricia discusses our future and how we talk about AI
[3:49] - Thoughts on the narrative of fear-mongering we have in the West about AI
[5:47] - The relationship between humans and AI
[5:59] - A new framework: users vs shapers
[9:07] - The problem with taking on a passive role with a technology unlike anything we have ever seen
[11:06] - People who use AI successfully are active shapers
[15:33] - Info on Advancing Research 2024
[17:23] - How users, shapers, and AI affect the field of research
[20:42] - The existential question of what it really means to be a researcher
[31:28] - Tricia’s advice concerning using AI in research
[35:07] - Tricia’s gift for the audience
[38:34] - Tricia wants to hear from you

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Tricia Wang https://www.triciawang.com/
Sudden Compass https://www.suddencompass.com/
James Bridle, Ways of Being: Animals, Plants, Machines: The Search For A Planetary Intelligence  https://www.amazon.com/Ways-Being-Machines-Planetary-Intelligence/dp/0374601119
Brett Christopher, Rentier Capitalism: Who Owns the Economy, And Who Pays For It?
https://www.amazon.com/Rentier-Capitalism-Owns-Economy-Pays/dp/1788739728 
Advancing Research 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

Angry and Passionate about what AI means to Researchers with Tricia Wang

After a start in digital software, Kate Rutter realized that qualitative definitions of success could, and needed to be, made more quantitative. Years later, she’s Principal at Intelleto, Adjunct Professor in the IXD program at California College of the Arts, and the instructor of our upcoming UX workshop “Crafting Metrics for UX Success." https://rosenfeldmedia.com/public-ux-workshops/crafting-metrics-for-ux-success/

In this episode, she reflects on the extraordinary success with qualitative metrics she has observed in the UX field, and the room for growth around numerical metrics, as well as the many challenges companies are faced with when trying to determine which metrics really matter. Kate’s four part workshop (August 6-7 and August 13-14) is intended to help designers gain a numerical understanding of success—and determine what metrics they need to measure in the first place (not just the easy ones!) 

Kate’s recommended reading:
• Lean Analytics by Alistair Croll and Benjamin Yoskovitz https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Analytics-Better-Startup-Faster/dp/1449335675
• The Tyranny of Metrics by Jerry Muller https://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Metrics-Jerry-Z-Muller/dp/0691174954
• Don’t Let Metrics Undermine Your Business, Harvard Business Review: https://hbr.org/2019/09/dont-let-metrics-undermine-your-business

Kate’s shoutouts
Julie Zhuo https://medium.com/@joulee
John Cutler https://medium.com/@johnpcutler
Laura Klein https://rosenfeldmedia.com/people/laura-klein/

Follow Kate on Twitter www.twitter.com/katerutter

Register

Crafting Metrics for UX Success with Kate Rutter

Steve Krug, author of Don’t Make Me Think, and Rocket Surgery Made Easy, is back for a third appearance on the Rosenfeld Review Podcast! Here, he shares some details with Lou about his book in the works, Writing Made Slightly Easier, and his perspective on the process of writing in general (and why he might advise against it!).

Check our Steve’s previous two appearances:
How To Get Usability Testing Right: https://soundcloud.com/rosenfeld-media/how-to-get-usability-testing-right-steve-krug
Life with the Apple Watch and other wearables: https://soundcloud.com/rosenfeld-media/conversation-with-steve-krug-life-with-the-apple-watch-and-other-wearables

Steve’s wise words for writers:
Don’t be afraid to always start at the beginning. Always assume that your reader knows less rather than more. 

Steve recommends:
Follow Laura Klein on Twitter https://twitter.com/lauraklein

More about Steve Krug: https://sensible.com/

Writing About Writing: Steve Krug returns to the Rosenfeld Review Podcast

Lou Rosenfeld talks with a LOT of brilliant, interesting changemakers in the UX world and beyond. Subscribe to the Rosenfeld Media podcast for a bird's eye view into what shifts UX faces, and how individuals and teams can respond in ways that drive success.

The Rosenfeld Review Podcast (Rosenfeld Media)

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