James Bridle is a writer, artist, and technologist. They are the author, most recently, of Ways of Being and previously wrote New Dark Age. They've exhibited art in galleries and institutions around the world and have written for publications like Wired, The Atlantic, and the Guardian. In this wide-ranging conversation, Jarrett and James talk about the limited ways we talk about artificial intelligence, why human-centered design might just be corporation-centered design, and the value of working across mediums. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/223-james-bridle.
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223. James Bridle

Michael McCoy is an industrial designer and educator. From 1971 to 1995, he was the co-artist-in-residence with Katherine McCoy of the pioneering design department at the Cranbook Academy of Art. With Katherine, he is the co-author of Cranbrook Design: The New Discourse and continued to teach at a variety of schools around the world. In this conversation, Michael and Jarrett talk about his early industrial design education, how he and Kathy joined Cranbrook, and how they fostered a space of experimentation in the department. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/225-michael-mccoy.
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225. Michael McCoy

Fraser Muggeridge is a graphic designer based in London. His studio works across a range of formats with a focus on typography and formal innovation. In 2010, he founded and is a tutor at the Typography Summer School, a week-long program for recent graduates and professionals and in 2022, he completed a PhD at RMIT called ”A Knowing Wrongness: Innovation in graphic design through combinations of traditional mastery and deliberately unconventional techniques”. In this conversation, Jarrett and Fraser talk about the ideas behind a knowing wrongness, the importance of process, and why so much contemporary graphic design looks the same. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/229-fraser-muggeridge.
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229. Fraser Muggeridge

Sarah Whiting is an architect, writer, editor, and the current dean of Harvard GSD. She is a design principal and co-founder of WW Architecture and from 2010 to 2019, she served as the dean of Rice University's School of Architecture. Her interdisciplinary research focuses on architecture's relationship with politics, economics, and society. Her writing has appeared in a range of publications from ANY to Wired and she's edited a variety of books, periodicals, and anthologies. In this conversation, Jarrett and Sarah talk about the value of interdisciplinarity, the intersection of theory and practice, and why editing is core to her practice. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/230-sarah-whiting.
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230. Sarah Whiting

Ila Bêka and Louise Lemoine are filmmakers, video artists, producers, and publishers. Their films focus on experimenting with new narratives and cinematographic forms in relationship to architecture and the urban environment. In 2016, their complete works were acquired by the Museum of Modern Art in New York. In this conversation, Jarrett talks with Bêka and Lemoine about filmmaking as architecture, how their work is a type of design criticism, and countering the dominant design discourse. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/231-ila-beka-louise-lemoine.
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231. Ila Bêka and Louise Lemoine

Mohsen Mostafavi is an architect and educator. From 2008 to 2019, he was the dean of the Harvard GSD. Previously he served as dean of the College of Architecture, Art, and Planning at Cornell University and as director of the Architectural Association School of Architecture. His current research,focused on the future of the Japanese city, includes the first English translation of Manfredo Tafuri's Modern Architecture in Japan. In this conversation, Mohsen and Jarrett talk about his interest in the future city, situating architecture in various contexts, and how leading three architecture programs shaped his own research. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/233-mohsen-mostafavi.
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233. Mohsen Mostafavi

Julia Gamolina is the founder and Editor-In-Chief of Madame Architect, a digital magazine and media start-up celebrating women in architecture. She's also an Associate Principal and Business Development Director at Ennead Architects and is a visiting assistant professor at Pratt Institute. In this conversation, Julia and Jarrett talk about what's missing in design media, the intersection of mentorship and publishing, and why it's important to show alternative forms of practice. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/234-julia-gamolina.
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234. Julia Gamolina

This episode originally aired September 11, 2019. 

Jenny Odell is a multidisciplinary artist and writer based in Oakland, California. She’s the author of How To Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy, teaches digital/phyiscal design at Stanford and has been the artist in residence at the Recology SF (aka ‘the dump’, San Francisco Planning Department, the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts. In this episode, Jarrett and Jenny talk about her background in literature and design, the intersection of text and image, and the value of seeing what is front of you.

Jenny's new book, Saving Time, is now available. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/132-jenny-odell-rerun.
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132. Jenny Odell (Originally aired 9/11/19)

This episode originally aired March 13, 2019

Reinier de Graaf has been a partner at OMA since 1996. He co-founded the studio's think tank AMO and has overseen projects ranging from an exhibition of the history of the European Union to masterplans for projects around the world. He has also taught in Harvard's architecture department and is the author of Four Walls and a Roof: The Complex Nature of a Simple Profession. In this episode, Jarrett and Reinier talk about the origins of AMO and when clients don't need buildings, the intersections of theory and practice, and why he doesn't always preach what he practices.

Reinier's latest book, architect, verb, is now available. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/114-reinier-de-graaf-rerun.
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114. Reinier de Graaf (Originally aired 3/13/19)

This episode originally aired January 13, 2019.

Nancy Skolos and Tom Wedell are designers, authors, and educators. They operate Skolos+Wedell where they are interested in demising the boundaries between graphic design and photography through collaged three-dimensional images influenced by painting, technology, and architecture and are long-time faculty members at RISD. In this episode, Nancy and Tom talk to Jarrett about how they met at Cranbrook and the influence of that education on their career, how design education has changed over the last 30 years, and how they balance history and innovation in their own work and with students.

A new monograph of their work, Overlap/Dissolve, is now available via Oro Editions.  Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/107-nancy-skolos-tom-wedell.
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107. Nancy Skolos and Tom Wedell (Originally aired 1/23/19)

This episode originally aired April 14, 2021.

Dori Tunstall is a design anthropologist, public intellectual, and design advocate who works at the intersections of critical theory, culture, and design. She’s currently the Dean of Design at Ontario College of Art and Design and previously taught at Swinburne University and the University of Illinois Chicago. In this episode, Jarrett and Dori talk about the intersection of design and anthropology, finding new forms for sharing knowledge, and the work of decolonizing design programs.
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Dori's new book, Decolonizing Design, is available now. You can read an excerpt on our site here: https://scratchingthesurface.fm/stories/2023-02-14-decolonizing-design-dori-tunstall/

Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/183-dori-tunstall.
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183. Dori Tunstall (Originally aired 4/14/21)

This episode originally aired on March 17, 2021.

Jeanne Gang is an architect, teacher, and the founding principal and partner of Studio Gang. The studio’s research-driven practice encourages intellectual curiosity and formal exploration across projects ranging from books and publications up to skyscrapers and urban planning. In this wide-ranging conversation, Jarrett and Jeanne talk about the role of research in the design process, building a studio culture that encourages curiosity, and how the idea of ‘actionable idealism’ drives all her work.

 Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/180-jeanne-gang.
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180. Jeanne Gang (Originally aired 3/17/21)

This episode originally aired on February 24, 2021.

Ashley Mendelsohn is an architecture curator, educator, and multidisciplinary designer focused on engaging and strengthening communities by demystifying the barriers to access and understanding. From 2015 to 2020, she was the Assistant Curator of Architecture and Digital Initiatives at the Guggenheim Museum and previously founded the 40 Kirkland Gallery at Harvard GSD. In this episode, Jarrett and Ashley talk about moving between design and curation, teaching architecture to high school students, and making architecture more understandable for a general audience.

 Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/177-ashley-mendelsohn.
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177. Ashley Mendelsohn (Originally aired 2/24/21)

This episode originally aired September 30, 2020.

Annelys de Vet is a Belgium-based designer, educator and researcher. From 2009 to 2019, she was the the director of the design program at the Sandberg Instituut and is the editor of Design Dedication a new book collecting the work and thinking during her tenure. Now she’s leading a new masters program on Disarming Design that is committed to design practices in situations of oppression. In this episode, Jarrett and Annelys talk about thinking about design education as a system of community and care and structuring a curriculum that leaves room for experimentation. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/163-annelyse-de-vet.
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163. Annelys de Vet (Originally aired 9/30/20)

Florencia Rodriguez is an editor, writer, and educator. In 2022, she was appointed director of the School of Architecture at the University of Illinois at Chicago. From 2010 to 2017, she published PLOT, and since 2017, co-founded NESS, a publishing platform for alternative forms of design criticism. In this conversation, Jarrett and Florencia talk about the role of design criticism in contemporary practice, practicing design from the margins, finding new formats for design discourse.. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/236-florencia-rodriguez.
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236. Florencia Rodriguez

René Boer is a critic, curator, and organizer in and beyond the fields of architecture, design, heritage, and the arts. His new book, Smooth City, focuses on the obsession with perfection in cities around the world. He is the co-founder of Loom, a practice for cultural transformation, and is one of the driving forces behind Failed Architecture. In this conversation, Jarrett and René talk about the idea of smoothness, the intersection of criticism and activism, and finding new forms to fund design writing. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/237-rene-boer. 
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237. René Boer

Deb Chachra is a professor at Olin College of Engineering and the author of the new book, How Infrastructure Works: Inside the Systems That Shape Our World. In this conversation, Jarrett and Deb talk about why we don't want to think about infrastructure and how it encourages and discourages particular ways of living, overlap of design and engineering education, and value of teaching principles of care and maintenance. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/238-deb-chachra.
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238. Deb Chachra

Erin Pellegrino and Jake Rudin are the founders of Out of Architecture, a career consulting firm and resource network, where they are exploring the value of architectural skills both in and out of the profession. Through career consulting, career tools, and their recent book, Erin and Jake help architects leave architecture. In this conversation, we talk about the shape their consulting takes, what's missing from architecture and design education, and why so many designers want to leave the profession. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/239-erin-pellegrino-jake-rudin.
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239. Erin Pellegrino and Jake Rudin

Stephen Eskilson is professor of art and design history at Eastern Illinois University and the author of the new book Digital Design: A History, a history of digital design from the nineteenth century to today. He previously wrote Graphic Design: A New History, which is now in its third edition. In this conversation, Stephen and Jarrett talk about the challenges in writing a history of digital design, the increasingly complexity of design tools, and the usefulness of the term graphic design. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/240-stephen-eskilson.
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240. Stephen Eskilson

Adrian Lahoud is an architect, urban designer, researcher, and the dean of the School of Architecture at the Royal College of Art. Previously he was director of the MA program at the Centre for Research Architecture at Goldsmiths and a research fellow at Forensic Architecture. In this conversation, Jarrett and Adrian talk about the intersection of decolonization and decarbonization, architecture as a site for posing problems, and fostering an interdisciplinary research culture. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/241-adrian-lahoud.
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241. Adrian Lahoud

Helen Molesworth is a writer, critic, and curator. Her new book, Open Questions: Thirty Years of Writing About Art, collects her writing on art and artists from exhibition catalogs and art publications. From 2014 to 2018, she was the chief curator at The Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles and previously served as curator at ICA Boston, the Baltimore Museum of Art, and the Harvard University Art Museums. In 2022, she hosted the six-part podcast Death of an Artist. In this conversation, Jarrett and Helen talk about blending theory and feeling in criticism, making exhibitions like essays, and the questions that still animate her work.  Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/242-helen-molesworth.
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242. Helen Molesworth

Nicholas de Monchaux is an architect, designer, and author. He is currently Professor and Head of Architecture at MIT. He is the author of Spacesuit: Fashioning Apollo and Local Code: 3,659 Proposals about Data, Design, and the Nature of Cities. Until 2020, he was Professor of Architecture and Urban Design and Chair in New Media at UC Berkeley. In this conversation, Jarrett and Nicholas talk about reframing our definitions of design, what a contemporary architecture education could look like, and building a multidisciplinary practice.  Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/243-nicholas-de-monchaux.
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243. Nicholas de Monchaux

Freek Lomme is a publisher, editor, curator, and writer. He is the founder of Set Margins’, a support structure, a platform for production, a network and publisher focused on impulses from the margins with a focus on communication, cooperation, and involved politics. Previously, Freek was the co-founder and director of Onomatopee, an art and design space and publisher in The Netherlands. In this conversation, Jarrett and Freek talk about the infrastructure of bookmaking, the role of the publisher, and the continued affection for print culture. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/244-freek-lomme.
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244. Freek Lomme

Michael Cina is a graphic designer, creative director, typographer, and artist. Since 2010, he’s run Cina Associates where he’s worked on projects for clients like Disney, Adobe, and Coca-Cola, as well as his long-running collaboration with Ghostly International. He previously co-founded YouWorkForThem, a designer-run online shop for typefaces, stock art, and other resources. In this conversation, Jarrett and Michael talk about the challenges and opportunities in working across mediums, how painting influenced his commercial design work, and how the internet shifted the state of design discourse. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/245-michael-cina.
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245. Michael Cina

Alison Place is a designer, educator, and researcher whose work explores the intersection of design and feminist theory. She is the editor of Feminist Designer: On the Personal and the Political in Design and teaches graphic design in the School of Art at the University of Arkansas, where she serves as director of the graphic design program. In this conversation, Jarrett and Alison talk about what feminist design looks like, designers as trouble makers, and rethinking school critiques. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/246-alison-place.
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246. Alison Place

Aaron Betsky is a critic, curator, and administrator. Until 2022, he was the director of Virginia Tech’s School of Architecture and Design. He previous was the president and dean of the School of Architecture at Taliesin, the director of the Cincinnati Art Museum, director of the Netherlands Architecture Institute, and a curator at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. He’s the author, most recently, of The Monster Leviathan: Anarchitecture. In this conversation, Jarrett and Aaron talk about anarchitecture and the relationship between theory and practice, the role of modernism, and why the future is multidisciplinary. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/247-aaron-betsky.
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247. Aaron Betsky

Kathleen and Christopher Sleboda run Draw Down Books, a publishing project and bookshop focused on graphic design, typography, and printed matter. They also work as graphic designers for clients and teach at Boston University, RISD, and the University of Connecticut. Previously, Christopher was Director of Graphic Design at the Yale University Art Gallery for 15 years and Kathleen worked as an archivist at the Beinecke Rare Books Library at Yale. In this episode, Jarrett talks with them about experimental publishing, publishing as a form of community building, and the continued relevance of printed matter. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/248-kathleen-christopher-sleboda. 
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248. Kathleen & Christopher Sleboda

José Esparza Chong Cuy is the executive director and chief curator of Storefront for Art and Architecture, a New York-based institution that amplifies the understanding of the built environment through artistic practice. Before Storefront, José was an associate curator at the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago and an associate curator at the Museo Jumex. In this conversation, Jarrett and José talk about the history and mission of Storefront, their year-long curatorial framework, and balancing institutionalism and experimentation.  Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/249-jose-esparza-chong-cuy.
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249. José Esparza Chong Cuy

Jacob R. Moore was named the executive director of The Architectural League of New York in June 2023. He previously served as associate director of the Temple Hoyne Buell Center for the Study of American Architecture at Columbia University. He’s worked as a writer, editor, curator, and publisher and helped co-found The Avery Review. In this conversation, Jarrett and Jacob talk about the mission of The Architectural League, the role of non-profits in design discourse, and the changing state of design publishing. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/250-jacob-moore.
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250. Jacob Moore

Cynthia Davidson is the cofounder and executive director of Anyone Corporation, a nonprofit architecture think tank. She is the editor of the architecture journal Log, and previously ANY magazine, an architecture theory tabloid that published from 1993-2000. She is also responsible for more than 40 books in print, including 24 books in the Anyone project’s Writing Architecture series, published with MIT Press. In this conversation, Jarrett and Cynthia talk about the evolution of architecture publishing, the state of design discourse, and how the visual design of Log and ANY shapes how it is read. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/251-cynthia-davidson.
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251. Cynthia Davidson

Scratching the Surface is a podcast about design, theory, and creative practice. Hosted by Jarrett Fuller, each episode features wide-ranging conversations with designers, architects, writers, academics, artists, and theorists about how design shapes culture. Previous guests include architecture critic Paul Goldberger, MoMA design curator Paola Antonelli, architect and OMA partner Reinier de Graaf, Pentagram partner Michael Bierut, RISD President Rosanne Somerson, writer Kurt Andersen, and designer Jessica Helfand. Featured in Architectural Digest, Dezeen, Curbed, and Eye. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Scratching the Surface

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