Many people say they feel ‘burned out’ at work, but how do they really know? How is ‘burnout defined? Or measured? And could other factors be at play? McKinsey researcher Jacqui Brassey joins the Work Better podcast to dive deeper into feeling ‘burned out’ and gives perspective on how our work can influence and even improve our holistic health in new ways.

Jacqui Brassey is a Senior Fellow and Director of Research Science at the McKinsey Health Institute, where she co-leads the Healthy Workforces initiative. With over 25 years of experience, she promotes mental health, wellbeing, agility, and resilience in organizations. Brassey is also a fellow researcher at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam and an adjunct professor at IE University in Madrid. She holds multiple degrees, including a PhD in economics and business from Groningen University and a joint master's in affective neuroscience from Maastricht University and the University of Florence.

The Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Contributing producers are Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, and Brandon Lacic. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison. Editing and sound mixing is by Sound Post studios. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks.

Burnout Isn’t What You Think It Is with special guest Jacqui Brassey (S5: Episode 9)

In an era where trust is increasingly scarce, redefining it within the workplace can be a cultural game-changer. On the Work Better podcast, host Chris Congdon and guest Minda Harts, a bestselling author and workplace consultant, explore innovative strategies to rebuild trust. Learn how to cultivate trust, even in remote work settings, and address trust issues with colleagues and managers.

Minda Harts is a bestselling author, workplace consultant, and sought-after keynote speaker known for her work on addressing workplace inequities and advocating for women of color. She is the founder of The Memo LLC and the author of "The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table," "Right Within," and "You Are More Than Magic." Harts is also recognized for her Seven Trust Languages® framework, which helps organizations build high-trust cultures.

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, Brandon Lacic, and Celeste Johnson. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.


Building Trust that Builds Profit with Minda Harts (S6: Ep.1)

In today's demanding work environment, understanding the impact of languishing at work – and how to overcome it – is vital. On the Work Better podcast, host Chris Congdon and guest Corey Keyes, a renowned author and sociologist, delve into how languishing at work affects our lives and how fostering a sense of belonging, community, purpose and meaning can significantly enhance our mental health.

Corey Keyes is a bestselling author, sociologist, professor at Emory University, and a member of an advisory board for the World Happiness Forum. He has written several books, including Languishing: How to Feel Alive Again in a World That Wears Us Down. Keyes is a member of the Positive Psychology Network and has worked for the Center of Disease Control and Prevention. 

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, Brandon Lacic, and Celeste Johnson. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.



How Languishing at Work Impacts Your Life with Corey Keyes (S6: Ep.2)

Starting Your Relationship with AI with Mike Pell (S6E3)

In today's fast-paced world, balancing work and life can seem daunting. But building a life outside of work — establishing hobbies, cultivating a positive family life and engaging in community activities — can help create full, meaningful lives that translate to the workplace. On this episode of the Work Better podcast, host Chris Congdon and guest Danna Greenberg, an organizational psychologist and professor at Babson College, explore how elements of personal wellbeing can help us thrive professionally.

Danna Greenberg is a professor of organizational behavior at Babson College, a published author of several books including Maternal Optimism: Forging Positive Paths Through Work and Motherhood, is the Associate Editor for the Academy of Management Learning and Education, and has published in over 30 articles in leading journals. 

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, Brandon Lacic, and Celeste Johnson. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.

The Myth of Work-Life Balance with Danna Greenberg (S6 Ep04)

AI is revolutionizing productivity in the workplace. Economist Chad Syverson joins the Work Better podcast to share fascinating insights on AI's transformative potential and explain how this technology can enhance efficiency and drive innovation across business functions. Tune in to the Work Better podcast to learn how embracing AI could unlock unprecedented productivity.

Chad Syverson is the George C. Tiao Distinguished Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. His research focuses on productivity, firm structure, and market dynamics, and he has coauthored the textbook Microeconomics. Before academia, he worked as a mechanical engineer and holds degrees in both engineering and economics.

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, Brandon Lacic, and Celeste Johnson. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.


Productivity, AI and the Future of Work with Chad Syverson (S6E5)

Could this meeting have been an email? We ask it every week. Employees have long held a love-hate relationship with the traditional office meet-up. However, Dr. Steven Rogelberg, an expert in organizational psychology, believes meetings can go from mundane to magnificent. He joins host Chris Congdon on the Work Better podcast to share insights and practical tips on overcoming common challenges, the impact of virtual and hybrid meetings, and the importance of face-to-face interactions.

Rogelberg is Chancellor’s Professor at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, where he teaches Organizational Science, Management, and Psychology. Widely recognized for his groundbreaking research on workplace meetings, team effectiveness, and employee well-being, Rogelberg has authored over 100 publications and delivered more than 50 invited talks around the world. His work has been featured in major media outlets including NPR, The Wall Street Journal, and Scientific American Mind. 

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, Brandon Lacic, and Celeste Johnson. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.


Why Meetings Still Suck with Steven Rogelberg (S6E6)

Sustainability isn’t relegated to just one team anymore. For many organizations, it's becoming intertwined with everything they do – and this elevated focus on sustainability is changing how many people work. In this episode of the Work Better podcast, workplace transformation and real estate experts Joaquina Garrido and Susana Quintas discuss the impact of workplace culture on sustainability and how creating sustainable office environments can boost productivity and employee wellbeing.

Joaquina Garrido is a member of the Board of Directors at IFMA España and sponsor of its Workplace and People Commission. She is a leading advocate for sustainable, human-centered office design that supports collaboration and well-being in hybrid work environments. Susana Quintás is the Director of the Sustainability Commission at IFMA España. With a background in finance and corporate strategy, she champions ESG-driven workplace transformation and co-leads initiatives like the “Playbook de la Oficina Sostenible.”

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, Brandon Lacic, and Celeste Johnson. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.

The Connection Between Culture and Sustainability with Joaquina Garrido and Susana Quintas (S6E7)

Are you ‘indistractable?’ Probably not. Distractions constantly barrage us. How we choose to focus can profoundly impact our mental health, physical wellbeing and our closest relationships. As author Nir Eyal says, “Choosing your attention is truly how we choose our lives.” On this episode, Eyal sheds light on the root causes of distraction and shares actionable tips to make being ‘indistractable’ your superpower.

Nir Eyal is a bestselling author and behavioral design expert known for Hooked and Indistractable, which explore habit formation and focus in the digital age. He’s taught at Stanford, founded and sold tech startups, and consults on creating products that positively shape user behavior.

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, and Brandon Lacic. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.


What’s Really Causing Distraction with Nir Eyal (S6:E8)

Most people want more from their work than just a paycheck. They want to feel like what they do matters. And that shift isn’t just a trend — it’s a call to action for today’s leaders. This special episode of the Work Better podcast (Recorded live at the American Society of Interior Designers National Conference in Atlanta) features Wes Adams, a positive psychology researcher at the University of Pennsylvania and author of Meaningful Work: How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee. He shares practical insights and powerful research on what drives meaningful work and how leaders can help people feel more connected to their work, colleagues, and organization by creating community.

The Work Better podcast is produced with assistance from Katie Pace, Rebecca Charbauski, Stav Kontis, Chiara Licari, and Brandon Lacic. Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey provide creative art direction. Soundpost Studios edits and mixes the podcast. Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez provide technical support. Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks publish digitally.


Making Work Meaningful with Wes Adams (S6:E9)

Welcome to Work Better, the podcast where we think about work and ways to make it better.

Four overarching macro shifts are fundamentally changing work and will continue to alter the landscape for years to come. Some of these shifts have been building for years, while others seem to have happened all at once. It’s the magnitude of the change, along with the pace, that is uncharted territory.  First, we’re living on screen. We’re spending more time collaborating on-screen than in-person. We have more meetings than ever and most people stay at their desk for video calls instead of going to a room to connect in person. No wonder people are feeling more lonely and isolated.

We’re in the middle of an AI supercycle – a period of dramatic growth and change. People are learning how to make AI their new co-workers. It’s changing jobs and the skills we need at a dizzying pace. Sometimes that pace can be overwhelming.  

Meanwhile, the number of companies setting serious carbon reduction targets jumped 102% in one year. There’s a whole new mindset about sustainability. New types of jobs are being created, roles are changing, and people need new skills—essentially a culture change. It’s all good, but it’s a lot.

Another big shift is mental health, which is on everyone’s minds. For employers it’s even more top of mind than physical health. Gen Z is coming into the workforce with higher levels of anxiety and people of all ages feel like their work-life balance is getting worse. 

With all the change around us, we need workplaces to be more like thriving communities.  Because communities are both places and relationships. We need places that help us build  connection, trust and a sense of shared purpose. By understanding how these shifts change behavior, we can create more resilient workplaces that build community and help people perform and feel better.

This season on Work Better, we’re sharing ideas about how work is changing and why we need community more than ever. Help us spread these ideas by sharing an episode with a friend or a colleague.

Work Better is brought to you by Steelcase, a global design and thought leader in the world of work. We help people do their best work by creating places that work better. Stay-up-to-date on design, insights and research to help people work better at steelcase.com/subscribe.

Making Work Meaningful with Wes Adams (S6:E9)

Work Better

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