Summary
In this conversation, Dave Prior and Dennis Stevens explore the evolving definition of project success as outlined in PMI's recent report. They discuss the implications of this new definition, emphasizing the need for continuous transformation in organizations and the role of project managers in delivering value. The conversation also touches on the importance of reducing friction in project management, the impact of AI on the profession, and the necessity for project managers to navigate the political landscape of project success. Ultimately, they highlight the need for project managers to adapt to a rapidly changing environment and the skills required to thrive in this new landscape.

Takeaways
	•	A successful project delivers value worth the effort and expense.
	•	Transformation is continuous, not stepwise.
	•	Project success must include stakeholder perception and value delivery.
	•	Project managers need to focus on reducing friction in processes.
	•	AI will change the role of project managers significantly.
	•	Friction is not the same as constraints; it impedes progress.
	•	Project success should be measured by the ability to adapt and deliver value.
	•	The role of project managers is evolving to include more strategic responsibilities.
	•	Continuous evaluation is essential for project success.
	•	Navigating politics is crucial for achieving project success.

Links:
PMI Article on Reframing Project Success https://www.pmi.org/blog/reframing-project-success
Agile for Project Managers - What is Project Success? w/ Dennis Stevens, Jesse Fewell, Jenny Tarwater, Sally Sloley, Jimi Fearless, and Semira Allen and  (on The Agile Network) https://theagilenetwork.com/content/1d2a0a72-4d33-4145-b80a-3728f45b1947/item/0
Redefining Project Success and How it Impacts Project and Product Leaders with Lenka Pincot, Mike Griffiths and Dave Prior (on The Agile Network) https://theagilenetwork.com/content/926c08d0-52c7-4444-8f2a-732ac6acea61/item/0

Contacting Dennis
Website: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=orgwright&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisstevens/
The Agile Network Profile: https://theagilenetwork.com/celebrity/fa0c1ba5-2373-4750-a3a2-86e37bc3ab03


Chapters
00:18 Introduction to Project Success Redefined
03:25 Transformation in Project Management
06:14 The New Definition of Project Success
09:21 Challenges in Project Management
12:08 Reducing Friction in Project Success
15:16 The Role of Project Managers in Value Delivery
18:39 The Politics of Project Management
22:18 Evolving Role of Project Managers
25:08 AI and the Future of Project Management
28:08 The Changing Landscape of Project Management
30:18 Concluding Thoughts and Future Conversations

Redefining Project Success with Dennis Stevens - March 2025

Dennis Stevens joins drunkenpm for a deep dive into the challenges faced by middle management in organizational change. Dennis argues that Agile and transformation efforts often fail because they treat middle managers as a roadblock, when in fact, these managers are simply victims of a badly designed system. The core idea is that companies shouldn't try to eliminate these roles but must instead design specific organizational "containers" and routines that force middle managers to leverage human nature (like self-interest and competition) to drive innovation. The goal is to shift strategy from a static plan to a dynamic process that lives in the interactions between people, ensuring all the work being done is strategically aligned, measurable, and ultimately successful.

Key Takeaways
Middle Management is the Constraint: Organizational change, adaptability, and innovation will either happen or stall at the middle management level.

Systemic Failure: Middle managers are often marginalized as the "stepchild" and are expected to manage tasks and activities instead of creating the conditions necessary for teams to achieve outcomes.

Strategy is Dynamic: Strategy doesn't happen when a leader speaks; it becomes real when people start talking to each other and applying it, which requires designing routines that create safety for delegation.

Embrace Human Nature: Successful organizational design must leverage human nature, where competitiveness is the fuel, rather than relying on idealistic notions of "no ego, total alignment".

Conditions Over Practices: The success of Agile is due to the environment and conditions created for the teams, not the specific practices (like stand-ups or language). A key function of management is to consciously create those conditions.

Constraints Drive Innovation: Setting clear goals and enforcing constraints and consequences within the designed container will drive innovation by forcing teams to be efficient and reinvent, as opposed to operating without pressure.


Key Moments
0:02:24 The Core Thesis: Stevens introduces the central argument: "If you're trying to change how an organization runs, middle management is where it will either happen or stall."
0:03:41 The Problem Defined: Stevens uses the "stepchild" analogy to describe the plight of middle managers: having "fake power," lacking strategy, and being blamed for a system that was not designed to support them.
0:08:50 The Root Cause: Stevens identifies the problem: it's not a failure of management but a failure of the organization to deeply understand the conditions necessary for teams to innovate coherently in a complex system.
0:15:26 The Anti-Commune Stance: Stevens argues against the idealistic view of self-organization, stating that to succeed at scale, a system must be built where competitiveness is the fuel, rather than expecting people "to not be people."
0:20:08 The Glue of Strategy: Stevens defines where strategy truly exists: "Strategy becomes real when people start talking to each other." He stresses the need to build routines that create safety for delegation.
0:30:46 Constraints & Innovation: Stevens explains that constraints drive innovation by forcing efficiency, while a lack of constraints leads to inefficiency and a lack of pressure to reinvent.

Dennis's Article: Innovation By Design https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/innovation-design-orgwright-qeipe/?trackingId=6eh7kgcyKabru1Cdv4%2BERg%3D%3D

Links from the Intro:
Productivity Survival: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/markkilby/1905697
No One is Coming to Save You
	Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/yhdk785j	
	Leanpub: https://leanpub.com/surfthechaos

Contacting Dennis
	LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisstevens/
	OrgWright: https://www.orgwright.com/
	The Agile Network: https://tinyurl.com/2tywk29e


Contacting Dave
	LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrsungo/
	Linktree: https://linktr.ee/mrsungo 
	The Agile Network: https://tinyurl.com/y3rhnnxp



Making the Case for Middle Management with Dennis Stevens

A podcast about Agile and Project Management

New tracks tagged #orgwright