Our lives are lived at the intersection of vast systems (economic, technological, and beyond) that are incredibly complex and often chaotic, and it's hard to understand and embrace what author Neil Chilson's new book, Getting Out Of Control, calls "the emergent mindset." On this week's episode, Neil joins us to discuss his book and why you can't simply "control" complex systems.

The Techdirt Podcast

Getting Out Of Control

Okay, now we're getting back to the plan. Two weeks ago we featured an excerpt from the audiobook of Red Team Blues, Cory Doctorow's new (and excellent) novel, and promised that we'd soon be joined by Cory himself. And now, we deliver! Listen to this week's episode for a long and far-reaching conversation between Mike and Cory about the book and it's themes and subjects, plus plenty of interesting tangents.

Red Team Blues: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250865847/redteamblues

Red Team Blues, Part Two (With Cory Doctorow)

In the conversation about keeping kids safe online, the actual experts with the most to offer are all too often treated as outsiders and interlopers. One such expert is Candice Odgers, Professor of Psychological Science and Informatics at the University of California Irvine, who has recently been involved in a lot of debates against people who are very confident despite having far less information and expertise. This week, she joins us for something of a follow-up to our previous episode, to have a more productive discussion about the real challenges with kids and social media and the real efforts to address them.

What An Actual Expert Thinks About Kids & Social Media

We've got another cross-post episode this week! Recently, Mike appeared on The Dynamist podcast from the Foundation for American Innovation for the second entry in a four-part series about copyright and artificial intelligence. He's joined by Alex Winter and Tim Hwang, and host Evan Swarztrauber, for a discussion about how artists, creators, and tech companies are navigating the rapidly changing AI landscape.

Copyright Versus AI: Hollywood & Creators

We're finally getting back into the rhythm of things, and in fact right at this very moment Mike is recording a brand new original episode for next week on the podcast — but this week, we've got a cross-post and a special extra treat. Mike recently once again joined Andy Levy on The New Abnormal podcast to discuss what Elon Musk is up to in the federal government, and how those of us who closely followed his Twitter takeover know exactly the playbook he's working from. But before that, we've also got the teaser trailer for the upcoming documentary podcast Otherwise Objectionable, hosted by Mike for the Competitive Enterprise Institute. You can listen to them both right here on this week's episode.

What Twitter Teaches Us About DOGE

At long last, we've got a fresh new original episode for you! This week, Mike is joined by David Enrich, business investigations editor for the New York Times, to discuss his new book Murder The Truth, all about the abuse of defamation laws to silence journalists and discourage critical reporting of the rich and powerful.

Murder The Truth

We recently announced the launch of Otherwise Objectionable, a brand new documentary podcast hosted by Mike in partnership with the Competitive Enterprise Institute, covering the history — and the vital importance — of Section 230. This week, we're featuring the entire debut episode right here on the Techdirt Podcast. Check it out, and subscribe to Otherwise Objectionable in your podcast app of choice.

A New Podcast All About Section 230

In the digital age, attention is a resource — but if we can have a little slice of yours, we've got a great conversation about that very subject for you to listen to. This week, Mike is joined by journalist Chris Hayes to discuss his new book, The Siren's Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource, and examine just what's going on in the attention economy and where it might head in the future.

The Siren's Call: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/719661/the-sirens-call-by-chris-hayes/

Chris Hayes On How Attention Ate The World

If you're a Techdirt reader, you're probably familiar with Senator Ron Wyden. In January, he released his new book It Takes Chutzpah, offering up a call for political boldness that feels even more relevant with every day that passes. This week, Senator Wyden joins Mike on the podcast to talk about the book and the political moment we find ourselves in.

Ron Wyden On Chutzpah

Many people don't think of reproductive health and reproductive rights as tech issues, but they very much are — moreso than ever in a post-Dobbs America. The internet is vital to communication and spreading information around reproductive health care, while abortion drugs are changing the very nature of what reproductive rights protect. This week we're joined by Elisa Wells and Amy Merrill, two of the cofounders of Plan C, a nonprofit that aims to make abortion pills available by mail across the US, for a discussion about looking at reproductive health through the lens of disruptive technology.

Disruptive Tech Solutions For Reproductive Health

It's hard to create a law about children online without first identifying who the children are. We've written a lot about the problems that arise with mandated age verification, and a new paper by Eric Goldman, The "Segregate-and-Suppress" Approach to Regulating Child Safety Online, digs into why the entire popular approach to such laws is paradoxical and broken. This week, Eric joins us on the podcast for a discussion about why regulators should develop a wider and more thoughtful toolkit of online child safety measures.

Read the paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5208739

The Problems With Age Verification

We probably don't need to tell you that the current tariff situation is causing complete chaos in global supply chains, in large part due to the uncertainty — for all we know, the exact rules will have changed since this episode was recorded just yesterday. But we wanted to get some insight into the impact on small businesses, so this week we're joined by Jesse Vincent, co-founder of Keyboardio (makers of one of Mike's favorite keyboards, who recently wrote an open letter to their US customers), to talk about the challenge of running a business amidst Trump's tariff chaos.

The open letter: https://shop.keyboard.io/blogs/news/an-open-letter-to-u-s-customers

How Tariffs Are Impacting One Small Business

Though the original promise of the internet has been twisted and distorted, today we're seeing more and more people working to restore decentralization and user power online. One such person who sees the problem better than most is Flipboard founder and former Twitter board member (among many other things) Mike McCue, whose new application Surf is a kind of browser for the open social web. Mike joins us on this week's episode to talk all about Surf and the future of the internet.

The Rise Of The Open Social Web

We've written a lot about how understanding the playbook Elon Musk used at Twitter is key to understanding his current playbook with DOGE. The people who literally wrote the book on said playbook are New York Times journalists Ryan Mac and Kate Conger (the latter of whom joined the podcast last year to discuss the book), and this week they both join us to dig deeper into the ways Musk is reusing his Twitter methods on the entire federal government.

The Elonification Of Government

In something of a followup to our last episode about Elon Musk's playbook, today we're digging deeper into the comparison between Washington and Silicon Valley and what it tells us about DOGE. Johns Hopkins International Affairs professor Henry Farrell has been looking specifically at the concept of "blitzscaling", and this week he joins us on the podcast to talk about how Elon Musk and DOGE are bringing blitzscaling to government.

"Blizscaling for Tyrants" on Substack: https://www.programmablemutter.com/p/blitzscaling-for-tyrants

Blitzscaling For Tyrants

We've got a cross-post episode for you this week, courtesy of the Tech Policy Podcast by TechFreedom, hosted by Corbin Barthold. Both TechFreedom and The Copia Institute submitted comments on the FTC's inquiry into social media censorship, Corbin invited Mike and TechFreedom's Santana Boulton for a discussion all about what's going on. You can listen to the whole conversation here on this week's episode.

Copia Comment: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/05/22/we-shouldnt-have-to-explain-to-the-ftc-why-content-moderation-is-so-crucial-to-free-speech-but-we-did/

TechFreedom Comment (pdf): https://techfreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/TechFreedom-Comments-FTC-Political-Bias-Inquiry.pdf

The FTC's Quixotic Social Media Inquiry

Way, way back during the SOPA/PIPA fight, a very important part of the resistance against the bills was coming from infrastructure operators who explained how they were technically incoherent and dangerous. One prominent group was the Internet Infrastructure Coalition, co-founded by Christian Dawson. Today, with legislative amnesia setting in and new requirements for infrastructure-level site blocking rearing their heads, the Coalition has released a new report: DNS At Risk. This week, he joins us on the podcast to talk about the report and the ongoing dangers of attacks on the internet infrastructure.

The Fracturing Internet

In a world awash with misinformation and disinformation, those who spread and benefit from the chaos have worked hard to brand fact-checking and counterspeech as a form of censorship — and it's a worryingly effective tactic. But there's one type of counterspeech that is very hard to evade: mockery and satire. One person who knows that very well is Ben Collins, CEO of Global Tetrahedron, which purchased The Onion last year. This week, Ben joins us on the podcast to talk about the incredible power of mockery in the social and political landscape.

The Political Power Of Mockery

This week, we've got a cross-post episode of Mike's appearance on Kevin Williamson's How The World Works podcast. Kevin conducted a wide-ranging interview that covers some of the earliest days of Techdirt, the blog's evolution, and many of the important topics we cover today — and you can listen to the whole conversation here on this week's episode.

A History Of Techdirt, And More

We've got one more cross-post episode for you this week! A few weeks ago, Mike joined host Aaron Ross Powell on the ReImagining Liberty podcast for a discussion that digs into the the philosophy and principles underlying the push for internet decentralization and protocols over platforms, and why this shift is both desirable and, in the long term, likely. You can listen to the whole conversation here on this week's episode.

Reclaiming The Internet

We've got a bunch of brand new episodes of the Techdirt podcast coming over the next few weeks, but first we've got one special cross-post from our other podcast made in partnership with Ben Whitelaw from Everything in Moderation: Ctrl-Alt-Speech. As we take a little break from that podcast for the month of August, we're posting a few special episodes, starting with this conversation about how it got started, how we create the episodes, our philosophy about sponsorship, and what we need to make Ctrl-Alt-Speech sustainable in the long run. We're cross-posting it here on the Techdirt podcast feed, and we hope you enjoy it!

What's Next For Ctrl-Alt-Speech

One of the most troubling things about this era in American history is the number of institutions that have caved to Trump's bullying and given him what he wants, especially when it comes to media organizations. The folks over at the non-profit Free Press have done a lot of research and put together the new Media Capitulation Index, which aims to track and dissect this distressing phenomenon. This week, Free Press's Nora Benavidez and Timothy Karr join the podcast to talk about how they made the Index and what it can teach us.

The Media Capitulation Index

As we've been thinking and writing about the intersection of democracy and technology, especially burgeoning AI technology, we always come back to the core issues of user control and user freedom. Recently, Chris Riley of the Data Transfer Initiative wrote an excellent piece for Tech Policy Press about the need for data portability in personal AI tools. This week, he joins the podcast to discuss why we need to control personal AI data so personal AI cannot control us.

Tech Policy Press article: https://www.techpolicy.press/we-need-to-control-personal-ai-data-so-personal-ai-cannot-control-us/

Why Data Portability Is Crucial For The AI Future

The goal of Bluesky and the ATProtocol, and of the push for protocols over platforms in general, has always been to see more people building their own communities in a modular fashion. One of the most interesting projects demonstrating this potential is Blacksky, created by Rudy Fraser, which started as a custom feed within Bluesky but has grown into something much bigger. Today, Rudy joins the podcast for a conversation all about Blacksky and what it teaches us about open social media protocols.

Blacksky Demonstrates The Promise Of Open Social Media Protocols

We've got a cross-post episode this week, with Mike's recent appearance on the Computer Says Maybe podcast hosted by Alix Dunn. The discussion starts out looking at decentralization and Bluesky, then goes way beyond that into the early days of the internet and the concept of the Eternal September. You can listen to the whole conversation here on this week's episode.

The Eternal September

In what feels like something of a throwback to much earlier days of Techdirt, the Supreme Court is getting into the weeds of the DMCA. Cox v. Sony is a case centered around questions of repeat infringers and intermediary liability, and we've submitted an amicus brief from the Copia Institute, written by Cathy Gellis. This week, Cathy joins the podcast to discuss the Supreme Court's opportunity to fix the first amendment problems with platform copyright liability.

Copia Institute brief: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/05/something-good-the-supreme-court-could-do-finally-fix-the-first-amendment-problems-with-platform-liability-for-copyright-infringement/

Copyright And The First Amendment Collide At The Supreme Court

Last week, we published three separate posts that looked at the FTC's recent settlement with Aylo, the parent company of multiple adult websites including, most famously, Pornhub. Those posts, written by Stanford HAI policy fellow Riana Pfefferkorn, examined the legally complicated but very important issues that arise from the settlement forcing Aylo to scan for CSAM. This week, Riana joins us on the podcast alongside TechFreedom president Berin Szoka, to go even deeper into the legal weeds and explain how this settlement could doom criminal CSAM cases.

Posts on Techdirt:
https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/15/the-trump-ftcs-war-on-porn-just-ensured-that-accused-csam-offenders-will-walk-free/
https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/15/the-ftcs-settlement-with-aylo-this-isnt-really-about-fighting-csam-and-revenge-porn/
https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/18/the-worlds-most-popular-porn-site-is-a-government-agent-now-does-it-matter/

The Many Problems With The FTC's Pornhub Settlement

Last year, Renée DiResta joined us on an episode of the podcast to talk about her book, Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality, all about the people who have crafted a massive fictional narrative about the state of social media and government's involvement in content moderation. Now that Jim Jordan is celebrating Google's recent letter about the Biden administration and spreading all sorts of false claims about what it says, Renée joins us again to talk about maddening irony and overall craziness of this narrative that just won't go away.

Last year's episode: https://www.techdirt.com/2024/07/09/techdirt-podcast-episode-397-the-people-who-turn-lies-into-reality/
Renée's book: https://www.reneediresta.com/books/
Our coverage of Google's letter: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/25/jim-jordan-celebrates-google-caving-to-his-pressure-in-letter-that-says-caving-to-government-pressure-is-wrong/

The Fictional Censorship Cinematic Universe

We've written a lot about how AI can empower users when employed the right way, but how this is difficult when a few giant tech firms control the technology. One company that is trying to move in a different direction is DuckDuckGo with its Duck.ai offering. This week, DuckDuckGo founder and CEO Gabriel Weinberg joins the podcast for a deeper dive into what the company is doing in the AI space.

DuckDuckGo Wants You To Have More Control Over AI

Techdirt recently passed its 28th anniversary as an independent online media outlet. Once, it looked like such outlets might take over, but then most were scooped up by traditional media or grew into more traditional companies themselves. But now we're seeing a new generation emerge, especially via newsletters on platforms like Substack, and one such journalist is Marisa Kabas, creator of The Handbasket. This week, Marisa joins the podcast to talk about the modern rise of independent online journalism.

The New Generation Of Independent Journalists

In the post-Snowden era, we don't have to tell you how important it is to stay engaged with (and vigilant about) the surveillance state in America. Jennifer Granick is the Director of Civil Liberties at the Stanford Center for Internet and Society, and author of the new book American Spies — and this week she joins us for an in-depth discussion about the surveillance state today. Of course, shortly after we recorded this podcast, the NSA made major changes to one of its surveillance programs, so Jennifer returned to record an addendum examining this latest news, so make sure you listen to the end!

The Surveillance State

The Techdirt Podcast, hosted by Michael Masnick.

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