Episodes

Indie Label Spotlights

We're excited to bring you the first new episode of The Future of What since 2020! Listen in for expert insights from Beatdapp co-founders, Andrew Batey and Morgan Hayduk, as they discuss the ins-and-outs and different types of fraud which are present in the streaming ecosystem and how they can be detected. Plus, Melissa Morgia from the IFPI (International Federation of the Phonographic Industry)shares perspectives on the impact of streaming fraud outside of the U.S., its effects on music consumers, and international legal rulings setting precedent to protect artists from unlawful actions.

Episode #192: An Overview on Streaming Fraud

Episode #4:This month, the FCC ruled internet radio company Pandora could buy a small radio station in Rapid City, South Dakota. So why does Pandora want to run a small, top-40 station in one of the nation's smallest markets? It turns out this small station could reap big rewards for Pandora. We talk NMPA CEO David Israelite, Paul Resnikoff of Digital Music News, and Casey Rae of the Future of Music Coalition.

iTunes

Pandora's Move To Terrestrial Radio

Friends of Noise, an organization supporting the creative youth of Portland, Oregon since 2016, is expanding their educational programming with the opening of their all-ages venue, “The Off Beat.” The nonprofit hosts professional development workshops and produces all-age concerts where teens can perform on-stage, run sound, accept tickets & create posters, with their youth sound engineers being hired to produce local events ranging from block parties to weddings. In this episode, we speak with their Executive Director, Andre Middleton on the organization’s plans for a silk-screen printing microloan program, their upcoming season pass program, the new venue’s specs & how they envision it as a stepping stone for emerging bands!

Episode #252  —  How Friends of Noise is Creating Opportunities for the Youth of Portland

As a distributor, publishing company, creator of DIY platform OFFstep and one of the world's largest music MCNs on YouTube, ONErpm is considered a full-service, modern record label. The company puts artists at the forefront by emphasizing transparency & education at both the front end and back end, and even has its own CMS platform for artists to track spending & marketing plans. In this episode, Head of Marketing Jenna LoMonaco details how ONErpm supports & helps to develop their artists’ vision, along with the company’s strategic incorporation of modern tech, and clears up misconceptions on exploitation in the industry.

Episode #266 — ONErpm’s Artist-First Approach to Business

Killphonic Rights is a creator-founded, full-service music company, with Michelle Fantus serving as Head of A&R. Michelle has witnessed the evolution of artists and repertoire over her tenure in the industry, seeing music consumption go from iTunes downloads to streaming, and now music discovery being redefined by AI & algorithms. While some things have changed for A&R over the past decade, the practice remains the same at its core. In this episode, Michelle walks through the performance measures that A&Rs of both the past and present evaluate, the two “buckets” A&Rs tend to fall into, what this new era of music discovery brings, and more!

Episode #267 — Gut Instincts and Data: The Constants of A&R’s Evolution

Superfans have been discussed as a promising new revenue stream for artists, and Bootleg is leaning into this concept with an app designed to allow fans to purchase limited release, high-quality audio merch captured from live shows. This platform not only creates direct revenue for touring artists, but helps fans across genres build a community with fellow concert-goers. We spoke with founder Rod Yancy about the app’s offerings, the value The MLC provides in licensing music, how labels are looking to participate with the service, and what's on the horizon!

Episode #268 — How Bootleg Is Super-Serving Superfans With a New Kind of Merch

Searching large catalogs via tags can be time-consuming, reinforce biases toward what we already know to save time, and leave a large portion of artist works unexplored. AIMS API looks to utilize AI as an assistive tool for objective and accurate full-catalog discovery via search options that include natural language prompts, similar audio matching, and lyric search to benefit clients working as editors, sound designers, music supervisors, and beyond. In this episode, AIMS CTO Einar Helde unpacks the company’s origins, how their search technologies work, and their upcoming search tool that has already become a sought-after product.

Episode #269 — Reinventing Music Search: AIMS’ Solution for Precision and Unbiased Results

Consideration of those in a caregiving role is often an afterthought in many industries, but creative industries add an extra layer of challenge due to inconsistent income and schedules. While looking for support in her journey of motherhood while maintaining a career in music, Mamas In Music co-founder Tiff Randol noticed a lack of community, and banded together with Mary Leay to create this support system. We connected with Tiff to discuss the events, partnerships and other initiatives Mamas In Music is looking to put forward, how we as an industry can collectively support mothers better, and much more!

Episode #270 — How Mamas In Music is Caring for Caregivers in Our Industry

The need for meaningful rights protection will always exist across both the video and audio content industries. Expanding their arm into the audio field with the acquisition of Pex, Vobile now provides solutions for both. We brought Vobile’s SVP of Sales, Larry Mills onto the podcast to discuss the robust sector of the music industry that is fighting against the mass scale of fraud occurring on a daily basis. Mills identifies the important differences between fraudulent assets and fraudulent behavior, along with improvements in fraud-fighting from distributors, and shares upcoming announcements from Vobile on how they’re ensuring ethical AI use!

Episode #271 — Safeguarding Our Industry: Inside Vobile’s Fight Against Fraud

In this episode, we caught up with David Wolfe of The Vinyl Groove Records, Brian Burkert of The Sound Garden, and Mike Durham & Christina Wilson of Zia Records, who highlight the everlasting importance of physical music by diving into exciting happenings at each of their stores. Our guests discuss the impact of the recent Luminate + Street Pulse deal, how Black Friday serves as “Record Store Day Lite,” the resurgence of the CD, and the younger generation’s affinity for vinyl. They also touch on the role of record stores as hubs for community and music curation, trends affecting both their customer base and the products hitting the shelves, and much more!

Episode #272 — Updates on Indie Music Retail from The Vinyl Groove Records, The Sound Garden and Zia Records!

The digital age has created a plethora of data resources for artists and their teams, but it has also highlighted the glaring disadvantages of unorganized, siloed workflows within our industry. As an event management, project management and business intelligence platform, Artist Growth is a testament to how more centralized information creates a better picture of exactly what is and isn’t working for an artist in real time. Hear from Artist Growth co-founder & CEO, Matt Urmy as he walks through the platform's history, examines parallels between data sharing practices during the emergence of both streaming and AI, and details two current marketplace pressures that are helping to break data siloes.

Episode #273 — Unifying the Music Industry’s Data: A Conversation with Artist Growth’s Matt Urmy

Hopeless Records has passed its third decade in business since we last had label founder Louis Posen on the podcast, so we caught up with him once again to talk all things Hopeless and indie labels! In this episode, Louis walks us through the unique origin of Hopeless, its early ties with Fat Wreck Chords, and their strong commitment to charity – housing Sub City, Songs That Saved My Life and Hopeless Music Academy as a part of the Hopeless Foundation. He also dives into the importance of knowing both the creative and business side of the industry, the interesting place that indies sit in the music ecosystem today, and how the industry can better approach issues like supply & demand and AI.

Episode #274 — Louis Posen Reflects on 30+ Years of Hopeless Records: Indie Success, Charity and the Future

What began in 2007 as a hi-res music download store has grown into a vital platform for global music fans eager for a human-curated, high-quality listening experience. Qobuz has had a massive 2025, which saw them peak at #4 on the iOS App Store thanks in part to viral posts calling out their 24-bit hi-res streaming & download offerings and editorial team-led recommendations. This month, we talk to Qobuz’s Managing Director, Dan Mackta about the company’s history & recent success, how the Qobuz experience is akin to shopping for music at your local record store, the many ways it differentiates from the top DSPs of the day, and more!

Episode #275 — Standing Out in the Crowded DSP Space: A Conversation with Qobuz’s Dan Mackta

Episode #32: You’ve put your music out there and built a solid fan base, but you may still be missing an integral part of your team -- a person who could help bring your career to the next level. Band managers play a key role in the trajectory of an act, and by overseeing the business side of the group can allow the artist to put their energy into making music. We talk with three knowledgeable managers about what they do, what it takes to be an effective business partner and what artists can do to maximize their success. Joining us are Slim Moon, Ingrid Renan, and Louie Bandak.

GUESTS

Slim Moon (Kill Rock Stars, 5RC, Shotclock Management)
Ingrid Renan (Manager)
Louie Bandak (Manager)

MUSIC

Dear Boy “Local Roses”
Summer Cannibals “Go Home”
Witchypoo “Bad Circulation”

Slim Moon / Ingrid Renan / Louie Bandak

Episode #54: In 1986, iconic alt-rock band Blake Babies was born at Berklee School of Music. John Strohm, Freda Love and Juliana Hatfield released a few albums and toured before breaking up in 1991, but their work impacted both the Boston and national alternative music scenes. Despite their short run, Blake Babies helped define what we think of today as an independent band. On the heels of their reunion, we welcome John, Freda and Juliana on the show to talk about their enduring legacy and future plans.

Music: 
"Mind Your Own Business" - Delta 5
"Nothing Ever Happens" - Blake Babies
"On" - Blake Babies
"Waiting for Heaven" - Blake Babies

Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Recorded by Brent Asbury at Beta Petrol.

Blake Babies (Juliana Hatfield / John Strohm / Freda Love)

Episode #61: With the launch of Apple Music in 2015, the music industry saw a steep decline in digital downloads, and rumors flew about whether iTunes downloads would be phased out completely -- one publication even wrote an obituary for the service. Streaming services are here to stay, but what will that mean for music downloads? We ask MusicWatch Inc.’s Russ Crupnick about trends in music downloads, and hear from Bandcamp’s Chief Curator, Andrew Jervis, about viability of Bandcamp downloads. Ken Shipley of Numero Group also joins us to explain why the label has chosen to stop including download codes in their vinyl releases.

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Numero Group / Bandcamp / MusicWatch Inc

Episode #96: In 1985, Mark Robinson sent a letter to Ian MacKaye asking about how to press vinyl records. The year earlier, he founded Teen-Beat Records in Arlington, Virginia. Initially, only one copy of each release existed. Now, the label has over 200 releases under its belt and has shaped the D.C. independent music scene alongside MacKaye’s punk label Dischord. Both Mark and Ian join us on this episode to talk Teen-Beat, D.C., and more.


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Indie Label Spotlight: Teen-Beat with Mark Robinson and Ian MacKaye (Dischord)

Lifelong musicians Corin Tucker (Sleater-Kinney Filthy Friends), Peter Buck (REM), Laura Veirs and Cool Nutz join us at our 100th episode celebration to discuss being career musicians.

Corin Tucker (Sleater-Kinney Filthy Friends), Peter Buck (REM), Laura Veirs, Cool Nutz

Episode #114: When people start a band, they’re entering relationships that will hopefully last for years. Contracts can be helpful in remembering what you agreed to years later. We talk to lawyer Gandhar Savur about what to expect when entering into a contract with bandmates or a label. What’s normal in a record deal? How do indie label contracts generally differ from majors? What are percentage deals? Gandhar gives practical advice for anyone about to sign a deal. We also hear from musician Justin Ringle who has been navigating contracts through his band Horse Feathers since 2004.

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Understanding Contracts with Gandhar Savur and Horse Feathers

Episode #116: These days there’s nothing but data out there — social media statistics, Spotify artist insights, info about who your fans are, where they are, and when they listen to your music. But what do you do with all this data? And who is really benefiting from it? Experts Kevin Erickson (Future of Music Coalition), Erica Sinkovic (CD Baby), Susie Giang (APA), and Zeke Howard (Trailboss) join Portia to discuss how artists can put their data to work.

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Data! What is it good for? (LIVE at Treefort)

Episode #119: Portland, OR is one of many cities that have become known as hubs of creativity. The city's "maker culture" includes a large community of creators of music gear. In fact, you could put together an entire stage set up and backline just using instruments and gear made in Portland. On this episode, we hear about how some of these businesses got started and how the city's development has affected their industry. Guests include Philip Graham of microphone company Ear Trumpet Labs, Chris Benson of Benson Amps, and Saul Koll of Koll Guitar Co.

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Gear Makers: Philip Graham (Ear Trumpet) / Saul Koll (Koll Guitar Co.) / Chris Benson (Benson Amps)

Episode #125: Called “music’s monetization mystery” by Forbes, on today’s episode we shed light on the “black box” -- a complicated phenomenon in the music industry where small and large sums of money don’t make it to an artist. What happens to these unattributed royalties and how can musicians safeguard their income? We ask CD Baby CEO Tracy Maddux and CrossBorderWorks’ Vickie Nauman for insight.

Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Engineered by Brent Asbury at Beta Petrol.

Unpacking Music's "Black Box"

Episode #126: When should a band become an LLC? What can musicians write off? How can creatives safeguard against an audit? We answer these questions and more with accountants who work with artists. Guests: Emily Kingan / Jordan Michael Iannucci and Hunter Giles (Infinite Aggregate).

Creative Accounting

Episode #128: Light in the Attic founder Matt Sullivan joins us to talk about the inspiration behind the Seattle label, their emphasis on reissues as well as their distribution service and more. We also hear from Ishmael Butler, whose work with Digable Planets has been released with LITA.

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Indie Label Spotlight: Light in the Attic with Ishmael Butler (Digable Planets, Shabazz Palaces)

Episode #129: Despite being over a decade old, podcasting is still a new frontier for music licensing. As podcasts gain millions of listeners and big budgets, it's more important than ever for artists to understand their rights when approached about music use. Entertainment and podcast lawyer Lindsay Bowen gives us a rundown of how podcasts *should* go about using music and how artists can protect themselves. Jacob Webb, licensing and podcast coordinator at KEXP explains how they handle music use and navigate the intersection between streaming songs and radio play. We also hear advice from Jonathan Menjivar, senior producer at Pineapple Street Media (former producer at This American Life).

Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Engineered by Brent Asbury.

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Using Music in Podcasts... the Right Way!

#130: Compass Records was founded in 1994 by artists Garry West and Alison Brown. Called “one of the greatest independent labels of the last decade” by Billboard, Compass specializes in roots, bluegrass, and Americana -- and boasts the largest Celtic catalog in the world. On this episode, we hear about the label’s philosophy and history from co-founder Garry West. Compass artist Laura Cortese also shares her perspective.

Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Engineered by Brent Asbury at Beta Petrol.

Indie Label Spotlight: Compass Records

In our latest installment of the Get Paid series (in collaboration with @vrtxmag), artists and business people share their real-life experiences and advice for booking, promoting and touring.

Featuring:
Eli Howard - Brass Tacks
Scott Gilmore + Sarah Vitort - Fox and Bones
Dominik Schmidt -  Rola Music
Jennifer Carrizo - Talent Buyer, Crystal Ballroom
Nicholas Harris - Soul'd Out Productions

Get Paid: Booking, Touring, Promoting

Episode #146: One of the least talked about and perhaps most important topics for musicians to understand is copyright. What is it, how do you copyright your music, and what’s the point of doing so? On this episode, we cover the basics of copyright with IP lawyer Peter Vaughan Shaver and musician Simon Tam. We also hear from Jessica Sobhraj, CEO of Cosynd, a platform created for creators to protect their work.

Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Engineered by Brent Asbury at Beta Petrol.

Copyright 101

Episode #147: From AI to to the EP, we discuss trends and innovation in the music industry. First, journalist Cherie Hu shares a few music tech developments to look out for in 2019. Then, Jon Chattman explains his recent article "How the EP Killed the LP Star." Finally, Eric "Skippy" Mueller of Pirate's Press updates us on what's happening in vinyl.

Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Engineered by Brent Asbury at Beta Petrol.

2019 Trends in Music

In the final installment of the Get Paid series (in collaboration with Vortex Music Magazine), Portia discusses sync licensing and brand partnerships with Brett Byrd of CD Baby, Marissa Hernandez of Marmoset, and Scott Wagner of WagsWorks. Do you want to know if your music sync-able, or how to make sure that music supervisors can find your music among thousands of songs when a request comes in? Listen in, and then go get paid!


Guests:

Brett Byrd (CD Baby)
Marissa Hernandez (Marmoset)
Scott Wagner (WagsWorks)


Music:

Filthy Friends “November Man”
Wimps “Mope Around”
Kinski “Guest Girl Vocalist”
Delta 5 “Mind Your Own Business”

Get Paid : Sync Licensing and Brand Partnerships

Episode #156 : Thousands of hours of content are uploaded to sites like YouTube, SoundCloud, TikTok, Facebook, etc. every minute, and a fair amount of it contains unlicensed music. Technologies like YouTube’s “Content ID” system can help rights holders find offending usages once they’re uploaded, but not all sites have that kind of functionality, and certain uses are so short that the current tech can’t find them. Thankfully, there are several third party services stepping into the market to fill this critical gap in digital attribution and rights management, and we talk to three of them on this episode. In this hour, we hear from Stephen White of LyricFind, Amadea Choplin of PEX, and Stephen White of Dubset.

This episode is sponsored by DISCO!
Go to disco.ac/future for a free trial and 20% off with code: future

Digital Attribution For Musicians

Episode #160 : At this point, we all know that streaming royalties have become a larger and larger share of revenue within the music industry, but how those royalties are calculated by DSP’s is still somewhat of a mystery to artists, labels, and consumers. For example, why doesn’t your $9.99/mo. only go to the artists you’ve streamed that month? And, why do the per-stream rates fluctuate so much, based on time of day, the specific plan you’re on, etc.? On this episode, we talk to Vickie Nauman and Louis Posen about the “pool method” of royalty calculation (currently in use by most DSP’s), and alternatives to this method that are being proposed by some, and piloted by others.

How Streaming Royalties Are Calculated

Episode #161 : Denmark’s Crunchy Frog has been releasing albums for a quarter century this year, and they are celebrating their anniversary with a new compilation of music from the label’s roster, that’s being released in tandem with a variety of specialty beverages to commemorate the occasion. Listen in as label head, Jesper "Yebo" Reginal, talks about the origins of the label, and its successes with international crossover hits from bands like Junior Senior and The Raveonettes, while Johannes Gammelby tells us why his many bands are all signed with the label.


Guests:

Jesper "Yebo" Reginal (Crunchy Frog)
Johannes Gammelby (The Malpractice, I Am Bones, Beta Satan)


Music:

I Am Bones "Restorer"
Dtroit "What's A Man Got To Do"
The Malpractice "Get Daddy On The Phone"
Delta 5 “Mind Your Own Business”

Indie Label Spotlight: Crunchy Frog

Twenty years ago, Syd Butler started Frenchkiss Records, after his band Les Savy Fav couldn’t find a home at the prominent labels of the time. Fast forward up until today, Syd’s now part of Seth Meyer’s 8G Band, the label is still going strong, and Les Savy Fav is still playing shows. On this episode, Syd joins us to talk about the label’s triumphs and tribulations over the course of the last two decades, as does Craig Finn, who’s bands The Hold Steady and Lifter Puller have enjoyed success under the Frenchkiss umbrella.

Indie Label Spotlight - Frenchkiss Records

Episode #180 : Matt Black and Jonathan Fine first joined forces in the late 1980’s, after a chance encounter at a local record shop. Now, some thirty-odd years later, the two are still working together in multiple capacities, and show no signs of stopping. They’ve released multiple albums as the electronic duo Coldcut, and helped produce several others, in addition to founding the highly regarded UK electronic label Ninja Tune, which is now in its thirtieth year of existence. In the recent past, they’ve also turned their attention to making musical software, like the Ninja Jamm app, that allows both novice and pros alike to remix and create music on the go with their smart device. Join us this week as we speak with both Matt and Jon about their history as a band and their philosophy as label owners and app developers.

Indie Label Spotlight: Ninja Tune

Episode #183 : In the few weeks since our last episode, COVID19 has changed the world and how we interact with one another, and that has had many impacts upon the music business as a whole. With venues and record stores closed to the public for the foreseeable future, musicians are having to find new ways to interact with their fans, and because of the quarantine, most of those interactions are happening virtually. To help with this transition to a digital-only reality, the teams at Facebook and Instagram are rolling out new products and initiatives to help musicians and their fans establish new types of relationships that will work in the new paradigm faced by us all. In this episode, we revisit a public conversation between Portia Sabin, Perry Bashkoff (Instagram) and Mayola Charles (Facebook) that was part of a MusicBiz Live! webinar that occured on April 6, 2020.

MusicBiz Live! w/ Instagram and Facebook

Episode #184 : On this week’s episode, we’re revisiting another MusicBiz LIVE! event that features candid conversation about what music business trade associations are doing to help their specific constituencies navigate the COVID-19 quagmire. Joining Portia in conversation about the CARES Act and more are : Mitch Glazier and Michele Ballantyne of the RIAA, Richard Burgess of A2IM, Bart Herbison of the NSIA, David Israelite of the NMPA and Sarah Trahern of the CMA. Listen in to find out what relief is coming your way, and learn how to access it in your particular district or state with the help of this week’s guests.

MusicBiz Live! w/ NMPA, RIAA, CMA, A2IM & NSAI

Episode #185 : It should come as no surprise that independent record stores have been particularly hard hit by the “shelter in place” orders established by many states around the country in the wake of the COVID-19 outbreak. Some retailers have pivoted to online sales and other creative means to keep customers happy, but for many brick and mortars, this move just isn’t enough to maintain community or their bottom line. To make matters worse, the revenue generated by Record Store Day will not be coming anytime soon, as the worldwide event has been pushed back until June, at the very earliest. How will your favorite record stores survive this pandemic? Tune in and find out!

MusicBiz Live! w/ Indepdenent Record Retailers

Episode #186 : While the effects of the COVID-19 quarantine on live entertainment and brick and mortar retail are already apparent, other sectors of the music industry like publishing haven’t truly felt the effects of the pandemic yet because of their buffered collection timeline. Will some sectors bare the brunt of this pandemic, while others thrive? Join us this week as Portia speaks candidly with members of the MusicBiz board about how they intend on mediating the effects of this pandemic on their particular niches inside of the music business, and what best practices look like moving forward.

MusicBiz Live! w/ MusicBiz Board

Over the past several episodes, Portia has had countless discussions with the heads of music business organizations who represent various facets of the industry within the United States. This week, she’s speaking with their peers and equivalents in the U.K. and E.U. about how they’re weathering the pandemic, and what efforts their various governing bodies are making to aid musicians and other cultural workers in this time of crisis. The six person panel also speculates on what happens next within the industry, as other interconnected industries come back online or remain closed for an indefinite amount of time.

MusicBiz Live! w/ EU & UK Music Organizations

Founded by Music Biz President, Portia Sabin as a way to educate musicians on the realities of the music business, The Future of What Podcast has become a forum where the most significant voices in our industry discuss important issues of the day. Tune in as she hosts important industry figureheads and innovators alike in exciting discussions on where the music business is headed next!

The Future of What

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