The Provocateurs, a collaboration between Thinkers50 and Deloitte, is a new podcast series profiling the world’s boldest leaders and the moves they make. These are people who have accomplished incredible things by ‘provoking’ the future they desire – in business and for society overall. Often overcoming human biases and acting with imperfect data along the way, each episode will profile a single provocateur and their story.  

In this inaugural episode, we will introduce our five hosts and what you can expect from the series. Our second episode will feature the provocateur Valerie Rainford, the founder of Elloree Talent Strategies and former senior executive of JPMC and the Federal Reserve.  Join us for the beginning of this journey to inspire leaders everywhere to build conviction to act and #DoSomething!

The Provocateurs: intro episode

Dambisa Moyo is a true pioneer.  Zambian-born, she serves on the global corporate boards of the 3M Corporation, Chevron, and Condé Nast.  Her compelling combination of contrarian thinking with measured judgment, plus a uniquely wide ranging curiosity, can be seen in her succession of bestselling books: Edge of Chaos: Why Democracy is Failing to Deliver Economic Growth and How to Fix It, Winner Take All: China’s Race for Resources and What it Means for the World, How the West Was Lost: Fifty Years of Economic Folly and the Stark Choices Ahead and Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There is a Better Way for Africa. 

Most recently Dambisa is the author of How Boards Work And How They Can Work Better in a Chaotic World.  In this inspiring conversation with Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50 and Deloitte’s CSO Steven Goldbach, Dambisa maps out her world view, the rise and recognition of global talent, the realities of life in the boardroom, and the importance of seeking out wisdom from the older generation; truly thought-provoking.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 2: Dambisa Moyo

Valerie Rainford: Passion Plus Purpose

If passion and purpose are the currency of business, then Valerie Rainford has a lifetime of wealth from which to draw. Now, the founder and CEO of Elloree Talent Strategies, she is author of the award-winning memoir Until the Brighter Tomorrow: One Woman’s Courageous Climb from the Projects to the Podium. Her remarkable career is loaded with firsts: the youngest officer promoted in the history of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and the most senior black woman and the first black woman Senior Vice President at JPMorgan Chase & Co. where she created and led the company’s global Advancing Black Leaders strategy which helped increase black leadership by over 50% in less than three years.

In this remarkable conversation with Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50 and Geoff Tuff of Deloitte, Valerie charts her rise from being the child of sharecroppers to success in the corporate world. ‘Especially early in my career, I didn't know what I was capable of. I didn't have any role models to help me. So, I think that combination of being observant—asking what's happening with other people, asking what are they seeing?—and then someone saying, "You could do that", has been hugely successful for me,’ says Valerie as she shares the remarkable and inspiring story of her life and career.  

This is the first interview in the Provocateurs podcast series of conversations with remarkable people. 

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 1: Valerie Rainford

The Posse Foundation identifies public high school students with extraordinary academic and leadership potential and places them in supportive, multi-cultural teams.  Since 1989, Posse’s partner colleges have awarded $1.6 billion in scholarships and more than 10,000 scholars have so far been selected.  Posse scholars graduate at a rate of 90 percent.  Deborah Bial is the president and founder of Posse.  In conversation with Deloitte’s Stacy Janiak and Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50, Debbie shares insights from her remarkable story of running with a powerful idea when aged just 23 and turning it into a Foundation which makes an enduring impact on peoples’ lives—and the world.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 3: Debbie Bial

Julie Carrier is a trailblazer in the field of young women’s leadership. The CEO of Girls Lead Worldwide and founder of The Leadership Development Institute for Young Women, she researches and brings evidence-based, applied-neuroscience leadership coaching and development to girls and young women in high school through a set curriculum. Shortlisted for the Thinkers50 Coaching and Mentoring Award in 2021, Julie is recognised as the ‘World’s #1 Coach for Young Women’ by Marshall Goldsmith and is a former Pentagon Senior Management Consultant in Leadership. She is the author of the US national bestseller Girls Lead.

In this episode, we hear about Julie’s provocative work – not only from herself, but also from special guests: president of St. Ursula Academy in Toledo, Ohio, Mary Werner, and student representative, Ella Stoll, who shed a light on the impact it has made.




This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 5: Julie Carrier

Trained at Columbia, the National Institute of Health and Harvard before joining the faculty at Duke University in 1973, Bob Lefkowitz is a Nobel Prize winning scientist who is best known for showing how adrenaline works via stimulation of specific receptors. He is also a cardiologist and the author of the memoir, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Stockholm: The Adrenaline Fueled Adventures of an Accidental Scientist. 

In this wide ranging conversation with Deloitte’s Steve Goldbach and Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50, Bob Lefkowitz looks back on his amazing career and the lessons he has learned along the way.  Filled with inspiring anecdotes, this episode travels far and wide featuring the inside take on mentoring, how to lead brilliant people, the power of enthusiasm and storytelling, the role of humour and how a refusal to be compartmentalized led eventually to a Nobel Prize for research which has touched the lives of tens of millions of people worldwide.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 6: Robert Lefkowitz

It isn’t every day you get to meet a real-life astronaut! Dr Charles Camarda – (Charlie to his friends) was selected as an Astronaut Candidate in 1996 and flew as a Mission Specialist on STS-114, NASA’s Return-to-Flight mission immediately following the Columbia disaster of 2003, which claimed the lives of its seven crew. He was responsible for initiating several teams to successfully diagnose the cause of the Columbia tragedy and developing an in-orbit repair capability, used on successive Shuttle missions until the retirement of the Space Shuttle Program in 2011. 

As well as being an Astronaut, Charlie is a research engineer, inventor, author, educator, and internationally recognized expert and speaker on engineering design, safety, organizational behavior, and education. He has over 60 technical publications, holds 9 patents, and over 20 national and international awards. He was inducted into the Air and Space Cradle of Aviation Museum’s Hall of Fame in 2017. 

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 7: Charles Camarda

What is peanut butter and jelly leadership? And why does every business leader need a podcast? Ben Fanning is the host of the top ranked Lead the Team podcast, where he interviews world-class CEOs about their everyday success strategies that can apply to businesses of 1 to 100,000. In this fascinating episode, Ben, who is also a professional speaker, #1 bestselling author, and corporate trainer, explains the unique power of podcasts to communicate a leader’s authentic self. By showing vulnerability and intent, podcasts allow the leader to get the ear of followers in a new and exciting way that is ideally suited to today’s challenges. Listen and learn.

Check out Ben Fanning’s podcast Lead the Team: https://www.benfanning.com/blog/ 

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 9: Ben Fanning

Tiffani Bova: The Inside Track on Growth 

Tiffani Bova is the global growth evangelist at Salesforce and the author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller GROWTH IQ: Get Smarter About the Choices that Will Make or Break Your Business. Tiffani is a true change maker whose thought-provoking and forward-thinking insights have brought her international attention. She also hosts her own excellent podcast What’s Next!

Prior to working with Salesforce, she was a sales, marketing, and customer service executive for startups as well as Fortune 500 companies. After her success in the corporate world, she was also a Distinguished Analyst and Research Fellow with Gartner for many years. 

In this conversation with Steve Goldbach and Stuart Crainer, Tiffani tells the compelling story of the development of her insights, ranging all the way from running E. K. Fernandez Shows to her time at Salesforce. She also spills exclusive nuggets from her forthcoming book, always with a keen eye on weighing both consumer and employee satisfaction and experiences. 

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 11: Tiffani Bova

Jim Stengel is the President and CEO of The Jim Stengel Company, which works to build brands and companies by activating their purpose. He has authored the books ‘Grow: How Ideals Power Growth and Profit at the World’s Greatest Companies’ as well as ‘Unleashing the Innovators: How Mature Companies Find New Life with Startups.’ He is also a speaker with the Washington Speakers Bureau, the host of The CMO Podcast, and serves as Dean of the Young Marketers Academy at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity.

Jim is the former Global Marketing Officer of Procter & Gamble, the largest marketer in the world, and is known for having personally led the transformation that has firmly established P&G as one of the most admired brand-building companies in the world under the mantra that an activated purpose is what inspires, motivates, and retains employees and customers.

In this conversation with Chief Growth Officer at Deloitte, Stacy Janiak, and Thinkers50 co-founder, Des Dearlove, Jim dives into activating purpose, staying curious, asking the right questions, and understanding implicit biases in the room. 

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 12: Jim Stengel

Former professional poker player Annie Duke is a master of decision making. In this Provocateurs podcast, hosted by Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50 and Steve Goldbach of Deloitte, she challenges us to examine our own biases and self-narratives to focus on the things we can control, in order to make better choices. 

By sharing practical insights and strategies for improving decision making and developing resilience, Annie emphasises the importance of analysing decisions objectively, rather than relying on the outcome to determine their quality.

The author of Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away, released in 2022, and national bestseller Thinking in Bets, Annie draws on her experience as a poker player to demonstrate that by re-evaluating our approaches to quitting we can re-think the way we make decisions in business and in life.

Annie is a special partner focused on decision science at First Round Capital Partners, a seed stage venture fund. She is also the co-founder of the Alliance for Decision Education, a nonprofit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 15: Annie Duke

Author of The Anxious Achiever and Hiding in the Bathroom, Morra Aarons-Mele is also founder of the award-winning social impact agency Women Online. 

In this Provocateurs podcast episode, she joins Geoff Tuff of Deloitte and Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50 to set the record straight on normalising anxiety. Data shows that high achievers manage more anxiety and depression, and Morra explains how to rethink the relationship between mental health and success. She describes anxiety as a spectrum, where at one end it can be quite debilitating and at the other, it’s a nervous but motivating energy. 

Having learned how to manage her own mental health through a career in digital marketing, politics, consulting, and more recently running her own business, Morra set out to learn the stories of other leaders who manage anxiety and depression. Her own podcast, The Anxious Achiever, for LinkedIn Presents, won the 2023 Media Award from Mental Health America, was a 2020 Webby Awards Honoree, 2022 “Best Commute Podcast” Signal Award winner, and is frequently a top 10 management podcast and top 50 business podcast. 

This podcast episode discusses mental health conditions including anxiety and depression. If you experience any personal mental health concerns, please consult a doctor, mental health professional, or seek help from a recognised mental health organisation.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 16: Morra Aarons-Mele

The author of New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity, Kim Scott joins Steve Goldbach of Deloitte and Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50 to talk through the politics, practicalities, and purpose of feedback in the workplace. 

In this discussion, part of The Provocateurs podcast series, Kim explains how her two-by-two framework for radical candor can help create productive feedback by avoiding the two extremes of obnoxious aggression and ruinous sympathy. She also shares her insights on bias, prejudice, and bullying and offers actionable responses for each one that can help eliminate workplace injustice, paving the way for greater engagement, collaboration, and growth.

As well as Radical Candor, Kim is also the author of Just Work: How to Root Out Bias, Prejudice, and Bullying to Build a Kick-Ass Culture of Inclusivity and three novels: Virtual Love, The Househusband, and The Measurement Problem. She was CEO coach at Dropbox, Qualtrics, and Twitter, and a member of the faculty at Apple University. Previously, she led AdSense, YouTube and DoubleClick teams at Google, managed a paediatric clinic in Kosovo, and started a diamond cutting factory in Moscow during the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Kim is co-founder of executive education company, Radical Candor.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 17: Kim Scott

Rescuing Levi’s

A self-declared ‘brand guy’, Chip Bergh was appointed president and CEO of Levi Strauss & Co. in 2011. During his tenure the company has experienced a dramatic turnaround marked by outstanding performance and reclaiming its cultural relevance. In short, Levi’s has become cool again! Along the way, Chip has shown himself to be a provocateur.  

In this podcast with Des Dearlove, co-founder of Thinkers50 and Geoff Tuff, Principal of Deloitte Consulting LLP, Chip explains why his own Levi’s have never seen the inside of a washing machine, how he galvanised the business community into pressing for gun violence prevention legislation, and the importance of continuing the legacy of Levi Strauss: for business to make a difference in society.

Chip also shares his insights on how he made the Levi’s brand great again and kept it relevant for the fickle Gen Z market – without alienating the baby boomers like himself.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 19: Chip Bergh

Marketer extraordinaire, Marcus Collins is a clinical professor at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. A former advertising executive who worked on iTunes + Nike sport music initiatives at Apple, Marcus contends that what we wear, what we eat, where we work, who we date, and just about every facet of our social living is informed by our underlying culture. And the primary goal of all industries is to “get people to move”, whether it is to buy, to click, to watch, vote, or subscribe.

In this intriguing conversation with Steve Goldbach of Deloitte and Stuart Crainer of Thinkers50, Marcus discusses his latest book, For the Culture: The Power Behind What We Buy, What We Do, And Who We Want To Be, and explains that his work is really just about connections – “connecting things that are normally disparate, so they come together and create new and novel things.”

He also describes how he came to lead digital strategy for Beyoncé, the influence of Émile Durkheim on his ideas, and the power of collective effervescence.

Marcus is the recipient of the Thinkers50 2023 Radar Award and his book, For the Culture, features on Thinkers50 2023 Best New Management Booklist.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 22: Marcus Collins

How to Tap into the Hidden Wisdom of the People Around You

Why do people withhold information from each other? Why are some of the smartest, successful people the worst at learning from each other? 

Jeff Wetzler is on a quest to transform learning opportunities, both in business and in education. If we want to create a workforce for the future, with skills that cannot be replaced by AI, he explains, we have to do things differently not just within an organisation but at every stage of the education journey.

Jeff is the former chief learning officer at Teach for America and is currently CEO of innovation organisation, Transcend. In his new book, Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You), he outlines the origins and steps of his Ask Approach™ framework, starting with Curiosity.

To find out more on how to improve the communication, collaboration, and critical thinking skills needed to tackle global challenges, from climate change to inequality to polarisation, listen to this Provocateurs podcast. Here, Jeff is chatting with Steve Goldbach, Principal and Sustainability, Climate & Equity Leader at Deloitte, and Stuart Crainer, co-founder of Thinkers50.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode #24: Jeff Wetzler

Dane Jensen: Decoding the Power of Pressure

How can we harness the positive powers of pressure? How can we mitigate the negative effects of pressure when the stakes are high?

Dane Jensen is the CEO of Third Factor, an instructor at Queen’s University and the University of North Carolina, and author of The Power of Pressure. In this podcast with Deloitte’s Geoff Tuff and Thinkers50’s Stuart Crainer, he explains that pressure is a function of three things: importance – how much the outcome matters to you; uncertainty – lack of surety about the eventual result; and volume – how many high-stakes situations you face.

Although pressure can be hugely destructive and lead to anxiety and burnout, Dane argues that it can also be hugely elevating. Being an emotional energy, pressure can be harnessed for peak performance. There are more world records set at the Olympic Games – one of the most pressure-packed environments – for example, than anywhere else in the world of sport. 

Listen to the podcast to find out the differences between pressure and stress, peak pressure and long-haul pressure, and the meaning of the ‘third factor.’

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 25: Dane Jensen

Atif Rafiq: Digital Disruptor

Provocateur of the C-Suite, Atif Rafiq has been disrupting companies for more than 25 years in Silicon Valley, the Fortune 500, and through a variety of his own startups. Having begun his career in digital native companies including AOL, Yahoo, and Amazon, Atif was named the first chief digital officer in the history of the Fortune 500 when he took on that role for McDonald's in 2013. He has overseen thousands of employees as a global P&L transformation and innovation leader in multiple companies and industries.
Today, over a half million people follow Atif’s ideas about management and leadership on LinkedIn, where he is a Top Voice, and his newsletter, Re:Wire, has attracted over 100,000 subscribers. Atif’s 2023 book, Decision Sprint: The New Way to Innovate into the Unknown and Move from Strategy to Action, is a Wall Street Journal bestseller. 
In this podcast, Atif talks with Geoff Tuff of Deloitte and Des Dearlove of Thinkers50 about the accidental metamorphoses along his career path and his latest venture and software tool, Ritual. He also discusses how to bring digital transformation to a traditional bricks-and-mortar business, and his methodical approach to innovation, which involves giving teams space for exploration, multiple input meetings before output, and the leader as calibrator rather than controller.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 26: Atif Rafiq

Paul Polman is a business leader, campaigner, and co-author (with Andrew Winston) of Net Positive: How Courageous Companies Thrive By Giving More Than They Take, a Financial Times Business Book of the Year. Together with Andrew, Paul is ranked #3 on the Thinkers50 Ranking. 

As CEO of Unilever (2009-2019), Paul demonstrated that business can profit through purpose, delivering shareholder returns of 290% while the company consistently ranked 1st in the world for sustainability. Today he works across a range of organisations to deliver the UN Sustainable Development Goals, which he helped develop. 

In New York for the 2024 Climate Week, Paul sat down with Thinkers50 co-founder, Des Dearlove, and Steve Goldbach, head of Deloitte’s Sustainability Practice in the US, to discuss how business can be a force for good, what it means to be ‘net positive,’ and how to develop the next generation of leaders. 

He identified a fundamental moral vacuum in our current approach to global challenges and emphasised that addressing this void requires more than systemic reforms – it demands a profound transformation in how we think and lead. A new leadership mindset is called for, he argues; one that focuses on restorative, reparative, and regenerative practices and places cooperation above competition.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 28: Paul Polman

Transforming Barbie

Executive vice president and chief brand officer of Mattel, Lisa McKnight is credited with leading the transformation of the Barbie brand. Under her leadership, Barbie became the number one global toy property in 2020 and 2021, and she redefined Barbie’s global social mission with the launch of the Dream Gap Project in 2018, a multi-year initiative which has positively impacted over 25 million girls.

In this conversation with Steve Goldbach, leader of Deloitte’s sustainability practice in the US, and Des Dearlove, co-founder of Thinkers50, Lisa explains what drew her to the world of toys, why the Barbie brand had fallen out of touch with its market, and how she and her team tackled the challenge of making Barbie relevant again.

Find out more about the importance of brands being consumer-centric and staying connected to culture, how Mattel overcame corporate reservations in the making of the Barbie movie, and why you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable when making decisions.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in these articles are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 29: Lisa McKnight

The 2024 Provocateurs series featured nine inspiring thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and business authors who challenged us to re-think conventional approaches to leadership and management. 

Neri Karra Sillaman shared her remarkable story from refugee to building a multi-million-dollar sustainable fashion brand; Marcus Collins explored the hidden power of cultural influence in consumer behaviour; Lisa McKnight revealed how she transformed Barbie into a cultural phenomenon and billion-dollar success; and Andrew Winston redefined the role of business to create a thriving “net positive world”. 

One of the key highlights of the 2024 series was recording live at New York Climate Week with Paul Polman, former CEO of Unilever, who delivered an emotional and unequivocal call to action to address the “moral vacuum” in global leadership. We must cultivate leaders, he says, who are equipped to embrace restorative, reparative, and regenerative practices and lead with purpose.

We also learnt leadership lessons from Amy Chang on becoming an AI entrepreneur; Jeff Wetzler on leveraging the wisdom of the people around you; Dane Jensen on harnessing the positive power of pressure; and Atif Rafiq on driving innovation and digital transformation in traditional, legacy companies.

In this episode, Steve Goldbach, Geoff Tuff, and Kulleni Gebreyes of Deloitte, join Stuart Crainer and Des Dearlove of Thinkers50, to reflect on their key takeaways and thought-provoking insights from Provocateurs 2024.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 30: Reflections

Profit is Not the Only Value

A sustainable systems scientist, Weslynne Ashton is professor of environmental management and sustainability at the Illinois Institute of Technology, where she also co-directs ID’s Food Systems Action Lab.

Here she discusses her work in industrial ecology and the circular economy, drawing from her experiences growing up in Trinidad. Weslynne argues that businesses need to adopt a more holistic view of value creation and regeneration, moving beyond purely financial metrics. 

Weslynne Ashton’s research, teaching, and practice are oriented around transitioning socio-ecological systems to create more sustainable and regenerative business practices and emphasizes the importance of expanding beyond traditional views of capital to include eight different types: natural, human, financial, manufactured, social, political, cultural, and digital. 

But how do we get these multiple capitals onto the balance sheet of business? Find out more in this conversation with hosts Geoff Tuff and Des Dearlove.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in these articles are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 31: Weslynne Ashton

Katie McGinty is the vice president and chief sustainability and external relations officer at Johnson Controls. In this episode she shares insights from her remarkable career spanning both public service – including as the first woman to chair the White House Council on Environmental Quality under President Clinton – and private sector leadership.

Challenging the persistent myth that environmental initiatives harm the bottom line, Katie explains how sustainability and economic success are not opposing forces but complementary strategies, demonstrating through real-world examples how Johnson Controls achieves significant carbon reductions while generating substantial cost savings for clients.

Key themes include:

The importance of systems thinking in environmental solutions.
How buildings can be transformed from climate problems to climate solutions.
The power of technological innovation through efficiency, electrification, and digitalization. 

Drawing from her unique background in chemistry, policy, and business leadership, Katie illustrates how bringing diverse perspectives together catalyzes creativity and transforms environmental challenges into competitive advantages and economic opportunities. Sustainability, she contends, is becoming “strategy essential” for businesses.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in these articles are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 32: Katie McGinty

Rajendra Pratap Gupta is a policymaker and author, a former advisor to the Health Minister of India, and a leading provocateur in digital health initiatives across the world.

He is the founder of the Global Digital Health Summit, which aims to create the future of healthcare; global think-tank The Health Parliament, which collaborates with the world’s leading organizations to make health and well-being accessible to all; and the International Patients Union, which is dedicated to empowering patients in policymaking. Rajendra also works to advance education in digital health at the Academy of Digital Health Sciences, which is now the largest provider of digital health courses globally.

In this episode, Rajendra draws on his extensive experience in private and public sectors to map out the future of healthcare. Discover:

• How prioritising healthcare can win elections
• The critical role of preemptive care over preventive care
• How genetics and individual data is shifting healthcare “from bedside to website”

With the democratization of technology, Rajendra contends, patients will turn from being passive recipients of care to active participants. Technology will be more than a platform for the solution – it will be the solution itself.

The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 33: Rajendra Pratap Gupta

Karthik Ramanna is a professor of business and public policy at the University of Oxford's Blavatnik School of Government and author of The Age of Outrage: How to Lead in a Polarized World – recently named one of Thinkers50's Best Management Books of 2025.

In this episode of The Provocateurs, Karthik identifies three distinctive forces shaping our current moment: profound uncertainty about the future driven by AI, climate change, and demographic shifts; deep distrust in institutions of governance that people feel have delivered a "raw deal"; and a shift away from global humanism toward economic and cultural nationalism.

Discover the tools and techniques leaders can adopt not only to manage outrage but to manage in the age of outrage, including:
- How to build an active listening network
- A 5-step framework for maintaining calm 
- Lessons from “temperate leadership”

Ideas, says Karthik, are everywhere, but implementation is everything.

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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.


The Provocateurs Episode 34: Karthik Ramanna

Trailblazer Eileen Collins is a retired NASA astronaut and former Air Force Colonel. In 1995, she became the first woman to pilot a space shuttle and in 1999, she became the first woman to command a space shuttle mission. Eileen's final mission in 2005 was commanding the critical return to flight mission, the first since the space shuttle Columbia disaster. Her memoir Through The Glass Ceiling to the Stars, was published in 2021. 

Provocateurs hosts Des Dearlove and Steve Goldbach talk to Eileen about her remarkable journey from a young girl in small town Elmira, New York, who dreamed of flying, to breaking the glass ceiling at NASA. Addressing the challenges of spaceflight, she reveals the importance of relentless preparation, the power of mentorship, and her evolution from an autocratic to collaborative leader. She also shares her three fundamental elements of leadership:

1. Know your job
2. Get the right people in place
3. Integrity: honesty and trust

In a candid conversation, Eileen also reveals surprising moments of vulnerability, including a panic attack at a press event that contrasted sharply with her calm under life-threatening space emergencies. 
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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 35: Eileen Collins

Award-winning chef, chocolatier, and founder of Midunu, Selassie Atadika is a Time 2025 Earth Award honoree and Yale’s inaugural Global Table Fellow. In this compelling episode of Provocateurs, Selassie demonstrates how intentional food choices can reshape entire systems.

Food is more than just sustenance, she contends, it’s a powerful tool for transformation, touching every aspect of our lives from economics to environmental policy, health, and culture. Drawing from her experiences across 44 African countries, Selassie’s philosophy of "new African cuisine" – where culture, community, and cuisine intersect with environment, sustainability, and economy – offers profound lessons for addressing global food system challenges, while celebrating local traditions and creating economic opportunities for smallholder farmers.

Discover more about the innovative business model of Midunu – a nomadic dining concept that combines research, education, and culinary experiences – and how Selassie is “leading through deliciousness” to create new possibilities for sustainable agriculture, preserve cultural heritage, and protect the environment around us.

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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 36: Selassie Atadika

Anke Hampel is chief sustainability officer at ABB, a global technology leader in electrification and automation based in Zurich, and a member of the board of directors of ABB Germany. With a background in finance, procurement, supply chain, and innovation management in the consumer goods and packaging industry, Anke is driven by a mission to unite profit with purpose. Sustainability, she contends, is a business imperative, not a fluffy add-on. Moreover, sustainability is not the preserve of seasoned experts; everyone can and should play a role.

In this special episode of the Provocateurs podcast recorded live at Climate Week New York, Anke presents the business case for sustainability and shares her learnings:
• Integrate sustainability into strategy: align your entire portfolio to your purpose by embedding sustainability targets directly into financial planning.
• Measure what matters: apply KPI’s to every phase of the product lifecycle to track circularity.
• Collaborate actively: as resources decline, close partnerships across your ecosystem are vital – or you risk losing your place in the supply chain.
• Manage climate risk: what cannot be insured cannot be financed – and data shows that climate-related risks are increasingly uninsurable.

Hear more from Anke on why now is the critical time to make a strategic decision: Flee, Freeze, or Fast Forward.
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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.


The Provocateurs Episode 37 Anke Hampel: Recorded Live at Climate Week New York

In this Provocateurs podcast special recorded at the 2025 Thinkers50 London Summit & Awards Gala, creativity strategist Natalie Nixon discusses how organizations can harness creativity as a strategic business competency.

Challenging the misconception that creativity belongs only to artists, Natalie uses her “wonder-rigor” framework to demonstrate that the best engineers, scientists, CFOs, and leaders toggle between imaginative exploration (wonder) and disciplined execution (rigor). This chaordic balance between chaos and order is essential, she says, for driving sustainable innovation.

Turning to AI and the future of work, Natalie contends that technology offers an opportunity for more distributed, improvisational ways of working – which appeal in particular to Gen Z – and AI can actually humanize organizations by creating liminal space for deeper collaboration and wonder. 

Natalie is the author of The Creativity Leap: Unleash Curiosity, Improvisation and Intuition at Work (Berrett-Koehler, 2020), and Move. Think. Rest. Redefining Productivity & Our Relationship with Time (Balance, 2025).

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 38 | Natalie Nixon: Why Creativity is a Strategic Skill

Steve Goldbach, Geoff Tuff, and Kulleni Gebreyes of Deloitte join Stuart Crainer and Des Dearlove of Thinkers50 to reflect on their highlights and insights from the 2025 Provocateurs series.

Featuring in-depth conversations with leaders and innovators, the 2025 Provocateurs explored pressing topics from sustainability and space exploration to digital health, public policy, and food systems innovation. Throughout the series, compelling stories emerged that illustrate the power of systems thinking, reframing narratives, and leadership under pressure.

We heard about seaweed and rum in Barbados: a circular economy success story combining waste products to create fuel. We learned how modulating electrical motors reframes sustainability as efficiency, delivering rapid returns on investment. And we listened as astronaut Eileen Collins described the extreme pressure of an aborted rocket launch, exemplifying agility and preparation as the essence of leadership.

The 2025 Provocateurs guests included:
·       Weslynne Ashton, sustainable systems scientist at the Illinois Institute of Technology
·       Katie McGinty, VP and Chief Sustainability Officer at Johnson Controls
·       Rajendra Pratap Gupta, founder of the Global Digital Health Summit
·       Karthik Ramanna, from Oxford University's Blavatnik School of Government
·       Eileen Collins, the first female space shuttle commander
·       Selassie Atadika, award-winning chef, chocolatier, and innovator
·       Anke Hampel, Chief Sustainability Officer at ABB * recorded live at Climate Week New York *
·       Natalie Nixon, author of The Creativity Leap and Move. Think. Rest.

What were your key take-aways from our 2025 Provocateurs?

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.


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