Jim Bianco, President of market and macroeconomic research firm Bianco Research, appears Jan. 11, 2024, with hosts Jeffrey Sherman and Samuel Lau to discuss among other issues his outlook for a “no landing” U.S. economy in 2024, sticky inflation of 3% to 4% and his theory on Fed Chair Jerome H. Powell’s dovish turn on Dec. 13. “The problem with the economy is there isn’t a problem,” Mr. Bianco says. “My biggest concern is too much growth and sticky inflation.”

Between a hawkish Powell speech on Dec. 1 and Powell’s softened stance on Dec. 13, the data showed no change in economic fundamentals. So what changed his mind? Mr. Bianco notes that Federal Reserve officials prefer unanimous or near-unanimous votes on monetary policy and bank regulations. He suspects “a bunch of doves” among the FOMC’s voting members let Chair Powell know they were prepared to vote in dissent, “and I think he acquiesced.”

Mr. Bianco thinks the biggest change in the economy coming out of 2020 was remote work. On economic fundamentals, he sees little case for “a macro problem with the labor market” or trouble with the consumer. He does note warning signs in credit and the potentially problematic rise of the U.S. government’s interest expense.

Asked about exogenous risks, Mr. Bianco points to attacks on commercial shipping in the Red Sea and the consequent rerouting of 30% to 40% of the world’s cargo shipping from that critical Asia-Europe route to around Africa. Mr. Bianco warns delays will spell inventory trouble not only in Europe but in the U.S.

Mr. Bianco has some criticism of the Federal Reserve. “The Fed first raised rates in March of 2022. What was the year-over-year inflation rate when they finally got to the first rate hike? It was 8.6%. Boy, they waited way, way, way too long before they got it.”

Messrs. Sherman and Lau also discuss with Mr. Bianco why the bond market sometimes is “smarter at sniffing out disaster” than the stock market, the absence of recession despite protracted recessionary warnings from leading indicators and complacency in the credit market.

The Sherman Show

TSS E149: Bianco on a “No Landing” Economy, Sticky Inflation and Powell Pivot

TSS Episode 149: Bianco on a “No Landing” Economy, Sticky Inflation and Powell Pivot

DoubleLine Deputy CIO Jeffrey Sherman and Portfolio Manager Jeffrey Mayberry welcome back David Zervos, Chief Market Strategist for Jefferies and Head of the Global Macro Division of Leucadia Asset Management. The last time Mr. Zervos was on in May 2019, he discussed Federal Reserve Chair Jerome H. Powell’s tenure in harsh terms, so this episode kicks off with what’s changed with Chair Powell, and Mr. Zervos believes he has come a long way. The group then gets into how the Fed acted in March 2020 (7:45), with Mr. Zervos noting that Fed officials think of their reaction as a success, setting up a framework for future intervention. He says areas that could draw Fed attention are private equity and commercial real estate (22:39), “two areas that have gorged on zero rates more than anybody.” 

Mr. Mayberry then turns the conversation back to Chair Powell and the specific way he has improved in his role (26:43). In discussing the performance improvement, Mr. Zervos notes, “I look at the evolution from what happened in ’18 and ’19, he really got caught up in the politics of the time and tried to stand his ground at a time when economically that wasn’t a very smart thing to do, and he looked kind of foolish.” The episode also includes discussion of the market’s eagerness for cuts (31:52) and whether there will be one before the election (34:36), what Mr. Zervos likes out there (38:19), the Fed framework shifting from average inflation targeting to nominal GDP targeting (45:53) and what Mr. Zervos thinks are the risks that are not being talked about (47:40). This episode was recorded May 7, 2024.

Jefferies’ David Zervos on Evolution of the Fed Put and Jay Powell’s Learning Curve (E150)

Jeffrey Sherman, DoubleLine’s Deputy CIO and Sam Lau, DoubleLine’s Asset Allocation Analyst, host a series of podcasts with distinguished guests, giving listeners insight into DoubleLine’s strategies, Portfolio Managers and industry innovators.

The Sherman Show™

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