My friend Bryson Lind (early 30s, Active LDS, Single, Undergrad in Psychology, Masters in Mental Health Counseling) joins us to share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. 
 
Bryson talks about the growing up years, his mission, and returning to college.  Bryson talks about feeing “monstrous and dark” inside because of his feelings towards men in spite of giving everything on his mission.   He talks about coming out to a Bishop and BYU-I (not a good experience) and then being suicidal and the positive/lifesaving experience coming out to his Bishop at Utah State
 
Bryson talks about many positive experiences at BYU (community, professors, friends, and committees) and his supportive YSA leaders during his graduate work in Denver.  
 
Bryson also talks about, in a deeply moving segment, reconstructing his relationship with Heavenly Father including “the person you think I am, isn’t the person I am.” 
 
Bryson talks about his clinical work at the Marriage and Family Clinic in Spanish Fork (link in the show notes) focusing on LDS LGBTQ.
 
Thank you, Bryson, for being on the podcast.   Your story is powerful.   I encourage everyone to listen.   And if you are looking for a therapist, please consider reaching out to Bryson.
 
Links mentioned in the podcast:
 
https://www.marriageandfamilyclinicutah.com/about-1
bryson@themarriageandfamilyclinic.com

Episode 588: Bryson Lind, RM,  BYU Grad, Gay, Clinical Mental Health Counselor

My friends Liz Giles (from Yakima Washington, RM, BYU Grad) and Ryan Giles (from South Jordan Utah, RM, BYU Grad) join us to share their story. Liz and Ryan start with becoming friends at BYU, accidentally falling in love, and then* figuring out their sexualities. Ryan states, “You don’t fall in love with a girl unless you are wired for girls.”  Liz talks about her decision to serve a mission and coming to terms with her sexuality during that time.   Both Ryan and Liz served faithful and honorable missions.

After Liz returned from her mission, Ryan and Liz share how they navigated their close friendship while at BYU, decide to begin dating a year later, and get married in 2021. They talk about the options they explored as queer Latter-day Saints and the personal revelation they received to walk a fourth option—being in a same-sex marriage and continuing to participate in Church (as much as they are allowed to).

They talk about the love and support they are receiving from many church members. They also talk about their fears and what we can do as Latter-day Saints to lower their fears/anxiety so church attendance can continue and provide the hope/peace that worshiping Jesus brings.

They finish with talking about a new Instagram account they started called The Forth Option @the.fourth.option and the need to give grace/support for queer Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints walking other roads.

Thank you, Liz and Ryan, for being on the podcast. You are a wonderful couple. I learned so much from you.  Glad more are hearing your story. 

Liz and Ryan’ Instagram Account:   @the.fourth.option 
 
Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com

Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 726: Liz and Ryan Giles, Two Gay Women, Same-Sex Marriage,  Attending Church

My friend Ben and Rebecca Lesue (parents of nine, recently moved from SW Missouri to Monument Valley Utah, non-binary/queer child) join us to share their story. They start with their journey to understand LGBTQ Latter-day Saints following Rebecca’s brother coming out as gay.   They then share the story of their own child coming out as queer/non-binary then stepping away from the Church.   Rebecca talks about learning “her job is not to cause them to turn out a certain way” but to “love and nurture”.  
 
Ben and Rebecca then talk about the 5th Sunday lesson they gave in their Ward about faith transitions.   They talk about models of faith including simplicity, complexity, and harmony.   Ben talks about how he learned his own “faith crisis” is normal, healthy, and positive.   He talks about the work of Jared Halverson (LDS Institute Teacher) to normalize faith transitions.   Ben and Rebecca talk about how fear and doubt are not opposites of faith—but part of developing a stronger and more sustainable faith.   Ben and Rebecca discuss how this whole process has strengthened their marriage and their relationship with God, enabled more love for others, and facilitated sustainable membership in the Church.
 
The Lesue story is a beautiful and powerful family love story.   I was so moved listening to and learning from them. 

If you have a family member who is queer and/or are going through a faith transition and desire to stay in the Church, their story will help you.  Thank you, Ben and Rebecca, for being on the podcast and your work to bring us together and create Zion.
 
Links:
 
Lift and Love Story:  www.liftandlove.org/stories/the-lesue-family
 
5th Sunday Lesson:   https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2u3jqnqfei7qbsunw2pr5/5th-Sunday-Lesson-Ben-Lesue-Podcast.docx?rlkey=3kc6xwv7tyhnf7htxatway50m&dl=0
 
Facebook group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
 
Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.:   www.papaostler.com

Episode 728:  Ben and Rebecca Lesue, Parents of a Queer Child,  Faith Journey to Stay in the Church

**Trigger Warning:  This episode talks about electroshock therapy and suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988**
 
My friend Adam joins us to share his story of coming out in the early 90’s in a church where we generally believed that “something had gone wrong” with someone having same-sex attraction that could be identified and then ‘fixed” through conversation therapy and in the case of Adam (and others) electroshock therapy—and increased spiritual practices (prayer, fasting, church attendance).   Adam shares his heart wrenching story of wanting to be a “good Mormon boy” and doing anything asked of him over a 5-year period to be straight and root out the “deviant nature” of his same-sex attraction.   Adam takes us back to the 70s/80s/90s to what was being written in BYU publications and said by church leaders about homosexuals.   Adam talks about how we "can’t heal without addressing the past”. 
 
Adam talks about his plans for suicide, delaying those plans for one day, and then leaving the Church for a more understanding/supportive environment.   Adam talks about how his suicidal ideation ended in his new environment.    Adam talks about finding his husband and their nearly 24 years together.
 
Adam talks about how he “always had a testimony” and spiritual impressions to go back to church a few years ago (Adam is no longer a member).  He talks about his loving/accepting Bishop and ward.   He talks about how he loves his husband and the goodness of their marriage and also how the LDS church is his spiritual home.
 
Adam (who spent two months writing his story for the podcast) gives us insights into the crushing pain/shame of conversation/electroshock therapy.   I was brought to tears several times during the podcast.   I was also brought to tears with Adam’s courage to walk back into an LDS chapel.    I was deeply impressed with the delicate line Adam walked in the podcast of being true to his story/pain and also showing grace to church leaders/others.    
 
Adam's story brings helps us understand where we once were as a Church, the progress we have made, and help us all consider how to better love, validate, heal, and support our LGBTQ friends.   It also helps us understand our past so we can talk about, learn, not make the same mistakes, and heal from our past.
 
Thank you, Adam, for being alive, building a life with your husband, keeping God in your life, and sharing your story.   Your story helps parents, allies, and local leaders—"when we know better, we do better” (Dr. Brene Brown).   It also helps younger LGBTQ Latter-day Saints as they make their way forward.
 
You are a good man.  Honored to have you on the podcast.
 
Links:
 
scholarsarchive.byu.edu/irp/vol19/iss1/
 
archive.org/stream/McBrideThesisElectroshockTherapy/McBride%20thesis%20electroshock%20therapy_djvu.txt
 
Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.:   www.papaostler.com
 
Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 729: Adam, Conversion/Electroshock Therapy Survivor, Same-Sex Marriage, Active Non-member

My friend Jana Spangler (Certified Integral Profession Coach at Symmetry Solutions, alumnus of The Living School, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about stages of faith using Brian McLaren’s 4-stage model of simplicity, complexity, perplexity, and harmony.   This is a powerful model to understand the various roads Latter-day Saints are walking.
 
Jana—a sought-after speaker, presenter, retreat leader and podcast guest on this subject—has many years of experience in this space from both her personal journey, professional work, and academic experience to give Latter-day Saints tools and vocabulary to understand a faith transition within themselves and provide better support to others. 
 
Jana is someone I consider an expert in this field for Latter-day Saints.  Her work helped me in my own journey during my faith transition as I desired to stay a committed Latter-day Saint and needed more tools, principals, and perspective.
 
Thank you, Jana, for your wonderful/needed work in our community to bring us together, reduce tension, and help us be more united.
 
Links:
 
Symmetry Solutions:  symmetrypath.com/
 
Brian McLaren Book “Faith after Doubt”:  brianmclaren.net/
 
Jana’s Faith Matter’s Podcast:  faithmatters.org/faith-journey-101-a-conversation-with-jana-spangler/
 
Jana’s At She Said It Podcast:  atlastshesaidit.org/episode-134-what-about-religious-trauma/
 
Church’s New Resources on Listening:  www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/helping-others-with-their-questions/03-listen-with-humility
 
Other New Church Resource supporting those with question:  www.churchofjesuschrist.org/life/church-and-gospel-questions

Episode 730: Jana Spangler, Stages of Faith

*** Trigger Warning:  This episode talks about suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 ***
 
In this solo episode, I talk about the focus of the podcast going forward, the Allegory of the Olive Tree/Vineyard (Jacob 5) and how it applies to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, and a personal update.   Thank you for all your support of our podcast.  Love,  Richard
 
Links:
 
Richard Ostler e-mail:  richard@ostlergroup.com
 
Bio:  papaostler.com
 
Facebook Support Group for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
 
Spencer King (Sapporo Japan RM):  https://www.spencerking.link/

Episode 731: Richard Ostler Solo, Allegory of the Olive Tree, Personal Update, 2024 Podcast Focus

My friend Camille McConnell (married LDS mother of 5 who was on episode 292) joins us to talk about her new book called “Let the Angels Carry You:  Coping & Connecting When Loved Ones Pass On."  In the podcast, Camille talks about how to connect with our loved ones who have died and have them be part of our lives.  She also talks about how to find hope, peace, and purpose following the tragic and sudden loss of a child or someone close to us.  Camille also talks about what we can do to better support those dealing with grief—and how simple platitudes like “he is in a better place” are not helpful.
 
I learned so much from Camille’s insights.  If you are dealing with grief or want better insights/tools to help others, please check out this podcast and buy Camille’s book.
 
Thank you for being on the podcast Camille (and I felt Wesley with us) and all your great/needed work in our community.
 
Links:
 
Camille’s book on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/Let-Angels-Carry-You-Connecting/dp/B0CQK4PYCS
 
Camille’s earlier episode on this platform:  https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-292-jeff-and-camille-mcconnell-son-wesley-age-3-died-in-a-chocking-accident
 
Camile's website: ConnectwithCamille.com

Episode 732: Camille McConnell, Son Died in a Choking Accident, New Book to Bring Hope

My friend Kurt Francom (founder and executive director of Leading Saints) joins us to talk about his new book called “Is God Disappointed In Me?  Removing Shame From A Gospel of Grace”.   In the podcast, Kurt (who has done 100s and 100s of interviews with local Latter-day Saint leaders) talks about why he wrote the book, the need for this type of book, and what he hopes it helps accomplish.
 
I agree with Kurt that shame has no place in the Gospel and grateful for Kurt putting his years of learning into a book to help our Latter-day Saint community.   I encourage everyone to read and share Kurt’s book.
 
Thank you for being on the podcast Kurt and all your needed work to help create Zion.
 
Links:
 
Kurt’s Book:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CT67RS86
 
Leading Saints:  https://leadingsaints.org/

Episode 733: Kurt Francom, New Book “Is God Disappointed In Me?”

My British friends Sam and Jen Norton (married parents of four, living near London England) join us to talk about their work to help younger Latter-day Saints feel welcome, needed and that they belong—allowing them to bring their individuality to help build Zion and access the Atonement of Jesus Christ to bring healing to themselves and others.  
 
Sam and Jen take the gospel of Jesus Christ and —in a unique way—turn that into action with the London FSY events over the past two years—which included 500+ youth from over 95 nationalities.  With the help of their dedicated team of forward-thinking youth leaders, they talk about these events that created a safe and welcoming place for the youth to feel welcome and needed so they could come unto Christ in their way and access His healing. 
 
Sam and Jen then talk about Sam’s new book (with Jen writing the foreword and conclusion) where Sam talks about how to put gospel principles into action so that more of our younger members feel welcome and that their contributions/insight/vision help us grow the Church and strengthen Zion. 
 
If you are working to create a safer and more welcoming culture in your area of influence (church assignment and/or family), I encourage you to read this book and listen to this podcast.  It is one of the finest we’ve done.  
 
Thank you, Sam and Jen, for all your brave/trailblazing work in our Church.   Thank you for helping us expand the borders of Zion.
 
 
Links:
 
New Book:  “Come as You Are:  Creating Space for the Rising Generation to Come Unto Christ”:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462146392
 
New Book Instagram Account:  https://www.instagram.com/cayasayhello/
 
E-Mail: cayasayhello@gmail.com
 
London FSY Instagram account:   https://www.instagram.com/fsylondon/

Episode 734: Sam & Jen Norton, London FSY Directors, New Book “Come as You Are,"

Our friend Ben Schilaty (who recently turned 40 and is co-host with Charlie Bird on the Questions from the Closet podcast) joins us to talk about his decision to date men, his commitment to our Church and the gospel of Jesus Christ, his decision to leave BYU (on good terms) and start his career as a therapist (Ben has a Masters in this field) focusing of helping LGBTQ folks and their families in Utah.
 
Ben also talks about the new Gatherings groups using the Book of Mormon/Come Follow Me to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.   Ben concluded with his latest insights from the Book of Mormon.
 
As usual, I was deeply moved listening to Ben’s latest thoughts on his personal life, his career, what we can do to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and his scriptural insights to create Zion. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this podcast. Thank you Ben for all your efforts to create more understanding, unity and hope.   Honored to have you on the podcast and count you as a friend!
 
Links:
 
Ben’s Nov 2023 Blog:  https://www.benschilaty.com/post/up-to-date
 
Ben’s e-mail:  benschilatytherapy@gmail.com

Ben's Book:   www.amazon.com/dp/1629728535

Questions from the Closet Podcast:  questionsfromthecloset.com
 
Gatherings Web Site:  https://gather-conference.com/gatherings
 
LDS Ministering Resources Site:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/counseling-resources/same-sex-attraction

Episode 735: Ben Schilaty

My friend Zak Hazlett (Masters Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from BYU) joins us from his home in Moab, Utah to talk about his life mission to bring more kindness, love, understanding into our community.  Zak (who grew up running rivers in Southern Utah) talks about merging this love of the outdoors and his desire to help others into a career as a therapist and relationship coach—which is captured in his fast-growing Instagram Account called @the_outdoor_therapist.

In the podcast, Zak talks about how to better love and accept ourselves, love others, learn to forgive ourselves/others, find hope/healing and be a better people.   Zak also talks about working as a student therapist in the BYU Comprehensive Clinic—where he had many visits with queer BYU students.   He talks about what he learned, how to better listen, how we don’t always have the answer, how his heart changed, and how he loves this group of people.  
 
I was deeply moved listening to Zak—his great heart—his work—and his ability to communicate principles in an effective and practical way to bless others/help ourselves.   Zak represents a rising generation focused on love, understanding, inclusion and healing.   Zak—and thousands more like him—give me hope for the future.
 
Honored to have you on the podcast.   I encourage everyone to listen to the episode and follow your Instagram account.
 
Links:
 
Zak’s Instagram Account:  @the_outdoor_therapist

Episode 736: Zak Hazlett, The Outdoor Therapist

My friend Lily Prisbrey—who recently returned from both a proselyting mission (Philippines) and a service mission (Utah). She joins us to give her farewell talk.   In this talk, Lily bravely talks about:

Her journey with scrupulosity and faith-related guilt.

Finding a loving, accepting, and NOT “ever-disappointed” God.

Finding God in the Filipino people.

Finding God through a Mission President who listened to doubts without judging and supported Lily’s decision to end her proselyting mission early.

Finding God through failure.

Inviting others to serve missions who don’t fit the mold.

Lily concludes her talk with her powerful testimony of a loving God with 1 John 4:  “God is love” and these words:  “I am not a black and white, fit the mold, perfect kind of person. But I served as a missionary—and I hope that through what I’ve shared today—you all can see that if I can be a missionary, you can too”.
 
We conclude with a discussion about her talk.   Lily brings powerful insights into how to help everyone feel loved, accepted, and that there is room them.   Lily is so brave and vulnerable—a sign of strength and discipleship that pattens how to help others feel welcome, safe, and needed.
 
Thank you for being on the podcast Lily.   I was so moved by your homecoming talk.   Honored to provide a platform where more can hear your inspiring message.
 
Links:
 
Lily’s homecoming talk:  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/to9a1bqw6btrihsj7dd67/Lily-Prisbrey-Homecoming-Talk-Feb-2024.pdf?rlkey=80xppy4jibj9np2kwjhyfob6e&dl=0

Episode 737: Lily Prisbrey, Powerful Missionary Homecoming Talk

My friends Josh and Jen Rollins (married for 26 years, parents of 5,  live in Riverton Utah, active LDS) share their story of their middle child Aiden coming out as gay, then their oldest children Jace coming out as gay and later transgender, and then their second-oldest Chelsea coming out as bisexual.  
 
Josh (who was serving as Bishop during much of this time) and Jen share how their family went from fitting the perfect Latter-day Saint mold to where they are today—a beautiful family united in their love for each other and creating space for the lived experiences of each family member.   Jen and Josh are honest that their journey has been difficult as their LGBTQ kids didn’t find it possible to find a place in the Church—and how they needed to reconstruct their hopes/dreams.   Jen and Josh talk about their constant reliance of prayer and direction from Heavenly Parents.  
 
Jen and Josh talk about how having LGBTQ kids isn’t a “trial”—because their kids are great human beings doing much good in the world—that there is nothing wrong or that needs to be fixed with their sexual orientation/gender identity—but rather the “trial” is for their LGBTQ kids to find a place in the Church full of hope, support and understanding.
 
I was so moved listening to Jen and Josh—two wonderful parents who have been on this road for 5+ years.  If you are a new to the blessing of being a parent (or family member/ally) to a LGBTQ child, please listen to this episode—it will give you insights to walk your road and love your LGBTQ loved one.   Jen and Josh conclude on why they stay members of the Church.
 
Thank you, Jen and Josh, for being on the podcast.   Your story will help so many.
 
Links:
 
Jan 2024 Leading Saints Story:  leadingsaints.org/the-portrait-of-an-lbgtq-family-he-is-at-the-helm/

April 2021 Lift and Love Profile:  www.instagram.com/p/COQIkF3h2ku/?img_index=1

Nov 2020 Human Stories Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/77-human-stories-jessica-and-josh-rollins/id1468623842?i=1000500809211

Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-Day Saint FB Group:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 738: Josh and Jen Rollins, LDS Parents of 3 LGBTQ children

My friend Lindsey Sais joins us to share her powerful story.   Lindsey (early 40s, married for 5 years to her wife Connie, lives in Raleigh NC) joins us to bravely share her story of being divorced at age 23, coming out as gay that same year, working through addiction, being an ex-felon, and suicidal ideation.     Lindsey talks about how addiction is not a moral failure—but rather a human reality from taking drugs/alcohol—which often starts to escape pain.   Lindsey shares the process she took (along with God’s help) to become sober on Feb 13, 2013—it is a moving story that gives hope to others. 
 
Lindsey talks about how Christ’s love/atonement is not earned—it is just there for all of us—and how she accesses that love in her darkest days to feel hope and healing.   Lindsey shared many lessons, perspectives, and insights for those in dark places to find a way forward—and the positive role of her parents on this long road.
 
Lindsey talks about finding her soulmate in her wife Connie and how that relationship (based on trust, communication, and loyalty) has helped her become a better person and have more stability.  Lindsey, who had her Latter-day Saint membership withdrawn in 2022,  talks about her constant testimony of the Church and attending her supportive Ward.  
 
Thank you, Lindsey, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story which helps so many find hope, healing, and peace.   Honored to have you on the podcast and feel such a strong Sprit as you share your story.   
 
Links:
 
Lindsay on Instagram at: 
 
https://www.instagram.com/palomas.gris
 
https://www.instagram.com/kantyoudigit

Lift and Love Story:  https://www.instagram.com/p/CVA-1laBcnh/?igsh=MWc2NXNxM2hrcmQ3eA%3D%3D

Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-Day Saint FB Group:  Ministering Resources to support LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints

Episode 739: Lindsey Sais,  Same-Sex Marriage, Believe in Savior/Church,  Overcoming Addition

My friend Jacob Troxel (who recorded this podcast three weeks after his successful mission in Canada Edmonton) joins us to bravely share his experiences as a gay Latter-day Saint and one of the first openly gay missionaries in the Church (which is noted on his Facebook profile).  Jacob (who grew up in Camarillo) talks about realizing he might be different around age 12 and then came out to his Bishop and parents at age 16.   Jacob talks about how he probably wouldn’t have stayed in the Church without the loving first response from his Bishop.  
 
Jacob talks about a powerful spiritual experience where his belief in God shifted from “having a testimony that He doesn’t love someone like me—to God is perfectly loving and loves me.”   That is the anchor knowledge that has given Jacob peace as a gay Latter-day Saint and his burning desire to serve a mission so others could know that important gospel truth. 
 
Jacob takes us on his mission and shares the both the difficult experiences and the positive ones—ones where lives were changed.    Jacob talks about the importance of proximity with stories of how companions did a “180” to full love, understand and support Jacob.  These stories give me hope.   Jacob also talks about how investigators and members concluded from Jacob’s example that “if there is room for Elder Troxel in the Church, maybe there is room for me.”   
 
Jacob is honest the positive experiences—made possible because he was open—and how those were matched by deeply wounding experiences which reminds me of Zechariah 13:6  “…. wounded in the house of my friends.”   Jacob talks about boundaries, being honest with his pain, and finding grace for others.   Jacob talks about his supportive parents as he makes his way forward.
 
This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done as I was so moved listening to Jacob—a very mature soul.   If you are considering a mission, on a mission or want to better support queer Latter-day Saints, this podcast will help you.   
 
Thank you, Jacob, for your serve in Canada and helping many feel the love of God and a home in our restored Church.   Thank you for your courage to serve—you are a trailblazer for others who will walk this road.   Thank you for helping us expanding the boarders of Zion so more feel welcome, understood, and needed in our Church and beyond.    You have a great life ahead of you!
 
Lists:
 
Jacob’s e-mail:  jacobrtroxel@gmail.com
 
Facebook:  www.facebook.com/jacob.troxel.18
 
Instagram:  www.instagram.com/jacobrtroxel/

Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-Day Saint FB Group:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 740: Jacob Troxel, Recently Retuned Gay Missionary

This episode is guest-hosted by my friend Steven Kapp Perry from the “In Good Faith” podcast. He interviews John Gustav-Wrathall (a dear friend and mentor) who appeared in an early episode—Episode 49—which we’ll link to below.
 
John shares some of his earliest spiritual experiences, which gave him a solid faith in God, and then describes his journey of listening to and following the clear promptings of the Spirit, even when that inspiration surprised him and was not what he was expecting. That included a life-saving impression to step away from the church for a time, and then, surprisingly, a call to return to it.
We’ll also hear how John’s patience in certain painful situations at church later led to growth and change in the very people who had caused that distress.
 
Thanks, John, for your courage to continue to share your story. I learn so much from you.
 
Links:
 
Episode 49:  https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-49-john-gustav-wrathall-same-sex-marriage-affirmation-executive-director
 
Link to Emmaus Ministry: http://www.emmauslgbtq.org
 
Link to the In Good Faith podcast: http://www.byuradio.org/ingoodfaith
 
Link to Episode 586: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-586-steven-kapp-perry-gay-latter-day-saint-byu-employee-israel-tour-director

Episode 741: John Gustav-Wrathall, Same-Sex Marriage, Believes In and Attends Church

My friend Scott Gover (late 40’s, lives north of London, left church in his 20’s, returned 18 years later, active for last 11 years) joins us to share his story.   Scott starts with his growing up years having a deep testimony of the Church and also realizing his was gay.   After many unanswered prayers to change his sexual orientation, Scott concluded “I was so evil, that I was beyond God’s love and the atonement” and was going to end up somewhere between “outer darkness and the telestial kingdom.”    It’s heartbreaking to hear Scott’s conclusions—which are logical conclusions for a closeted gay Latter-day Saint.
 
Scott talks about eventually leaving the Church for 18 years—even with a testimony of the Church all those years.   Scott talks talking to Elder Murdock and Cuche and deeply spiritual experience including Elder Murdock’s testimony that led Scott back into the Church.
 
Scott talks about a disciplinary council (positive experience) that returned him to full fellowship, a Stake that put him to work (Elder Quorum President, High Councilor, etc), and a loving a supportive Ward family including his lifelong friend Lillian.   It is a beautiful story of belonging and creating Zion.   
 
Scott talks about living “without all the answers” for queer people in the Church and his hope for more light and understanding.  Scott talks about his Stake Conference talk (see show notes) being led by the Spirit to talk about being a gay Latter-day Saint—and all the positive/supportive comments he received.
 
I was so moved listening to Scott.   His spiritual maturity, his ability to survive his early years, his journey out and then back into the Church, his support system, and all the good he is going to help others feel God’s love and the healing powerful of the Atonement.   Scott is helping expand the boarders of Zion and bring more hope, unity, and healing."   
 
Links:
 
Stake Conference Talk:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsM3SvNqFTs&t=3660s
 
E-mail:  uther2006@yahoo.co.uk
 
Blog:  http://www.thebookofgrover.co.uk/
 
Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 742: Scott Grover, Gay British Latter-day Saint,  Left Church for 18 Years, Returned

My friend Dale Schafer (California Convert, Adelaide Australia ’79-81 RM,  Twice Excommunicated,  Lives with his husband in Hudson Valley, NY) joins us to share his story his life as a gay Latter-day Saint.  Dale starts with his childhood of feeling like an outcast/not belonging because of his sexual attraction to men.  Dale talks about his conversation story followed by his desire to serve a mission (good experience).  Dale talks about trying to be honest/live with integrity as he did his best to move forward (came out to mom, mission president, BYU counseling center, broke off an engagement, and his bishop).   
 
Dale talks about being excommunicated but then rebaptized while at Utah State and then moving to Boston where he stepped away from the Church—but always felt it was his spiritual home.  Dale talks about these years including becoming HIV+ and how his testimony kept him alive.  Dale talks about finding his husband (been together for over twenty years) and also attending his local LDS branch (positive experiences with branch president and missionaries).   Dale talks about being excommunicated for the second time when the November 2015 policy and how he wishes that had turned out differently.
 
Dale talks about his deep testimony of the Church, God’s love, his wish to take to sacrament—all with a personal feeling this will all work out and “follow me, and all will be well.”.   I wish I could include more of Dale’s story shared on the podcast in this brief description.   I was so moved listening to Dale’s story and grateful for his courage to share it with our listeners.  
 
You are a good man, Dale.   All my love and support.   Your story will help so many!
 
Links:
 
Dale’s e-mail:  daleschafer@gmail.com
 
Dale’s Instagram:   @daleschafer

Episode 743: Dale Schafer, Convert, RM, Same-Sex Marriage, Deep Testimony of the Church/God

This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Stacie Proctor, who joins us to talk about her life as a mom, wife, business executive, and active member of the Church, who also lives with bipolar disorder.
 
Stacie was diagnosed in her twenties, when she experienced an episode of psychosis that resulted in her being hospitalized. Stacie describes these events, and others associated with it, that set the stage for a fundamental shift in her worldview and testimony. She gives us a glimpse into what she learned about acceptance of limitations, and ways that this can lead to heightened perspectives and deep peace that would have been unimaginable had she not gone through the frightening experiences surrounding her diagnosis. She talks about a period of time during which she knew she needed to take some space from full activity in the Church, and discusses the stigma associated with mental illness that still often exists within LDS culture. Stacie describes the ways she has been able to reconcile this fact with her faith, and how this paved the way for her to return to active participation in the Church with a renewed sense of identity and purpose.
 
Stacie is very dedicated to the process of fostering community connections, not just within the Church, but also within families, government, and business, and has developed a variety of platforms to promote these ideas. For example, she is the founder and CEO of Gathrd, and is currently serving as Mrs. Vineyard, Utah; she utilizes these positions as way to spread her message: “It Takes a Village: Restoring Community & Connection Through Collaboration”. Stacie also talks about motherhood and ways that living with mental health challenges can impact those she loves most.
 
I am so grateful for Stacie and her willingness to talk about these subjects. It takes a lot of courage to give voice to mental health issues, especially when we dialogue about them as lived experiences, rather than in an academic way. Most people agree that mental health is an important topic but still find it an incredibly uncomfortable thing to talk about. Stacie’s story is brave and compelling, and I am grateful for her willingness to be candid about topics that can be confusing. I believe listeners will feel more hopeful about whatever they are facing after listening to Stacie’s story.
 
As a side note, I am focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care).

Episode 744: Stacie Proctor, Survivor of Mental Health-Related Trauma.

**Warning:  This podcast talks about suicide.   If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988**
 
My friend Jacob Guy (RM, age 23, Senior at Weber State, shared his story on Episode 613) joins us to talk about his new book “The Scorpion Unit” a story that Jacob hopes will help people considering suicide.   In the podcast, Jacob talks about why he wrote the book, who he hopes will read it, and what how he hopes it will help people.   Jacob shares his plans for future books.
 
Jacob also talks about his road as a gay Latter-day Saint, what he is learning, how he is feeling about his future, and how people help him (please listen to Episode 613 for more of his story).
 
I honored to have Jacob back on the podcast to connect listeners with his new book.  I encourage everyone to read/share Jacob’s book and consider what we can do to better support our LGBTQ friends and family members.    You are a good man, Jacob.  So talented.  You have a great life ahead of you!
 
Links:
 
Jacob’s Book:  www.amazon.com/dp/B0CWXMS923
 
Jacob’s earlier podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-613-jacob-guy-age-22-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000599213707

Episode 745:  Jacob Guy, Gay Latter-day Saint,  New Book:  “The Scorpion Unit”

This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” 
 
Tonya interviews Dr. Cameron Staley, Ph.D., who talks about his most recent book: “Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher.” Cameron is a clinical psychologist who is currently working in private practice. He is an active member of the Church, and he and his wife have 4 children. Cameron talks about his research, discovering that unwanted pornography viewing may be more of a compulsion rather than an addiction. The implications of this led him to create self-directed programs including “Life After Pornography” and the “Life After Pornography Coach” app, based on research supported treatments for reducing compulsive pornography viewing.
 
Cameron talks about how he hopes his book will help shift views around sexuality and its intersection with religion. He also describes his experiences navigating his psychology training while maintaining his religious beliefs, even at times when these two spaces seemed to be incompatible. He talks about recognizing the benefits that both of these perspectives bring to informing our understanding of sexuality and mental health. He has seen the challenges associated with working through gender and sexual identity issues, pornography concerns, and shares ideas about how working through these experiences can exist while also growing our testimonies and efforts in being disciples of Jesus Christ.
 
Cameron also describes how his work as a psychologist has helped him develop a greater love towards God, his “neighbors,” and himself, and shares examples of ways that diversity enriches our opportunities to develop Christlike love. I am grateful to Cameron for his expertise, as well as his openminded and openhearted approach to teaching us more about these topics. You can learn more about his counseling services and free resources on his website, listed below.
 
As a side note, I’m focusing on stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). 
 
Richard 'Papa' Ostler
 
Links:
 
www.cameronstaley.com
 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CTSPNGSD
 
https://www.lifeafterpornography.com/sales-page33509805
 
https://getyourmarriageon.com/life-after-pornography-coach/

Episode 746:  Cameron Staley, Ph.D. – New Book “Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher.”

My friend James Smart (RM, age 20, from Rexburg Idaho, Santa Rosa CA missionary, at BYU) joins us to bravely share his story.   James starts with reading his powerful and well-written coming out post sharing his story growing up knowing he was different, dealing with shame and associated coping mechanisms, deciding to serve a mission, and finding great healing and hope on his mission.   It is a deeply authentic story of being honest, vulnerable, finding God, and finding peace that James is exactly who God created and wants him to be. 
 
We then discuss his coming out post and his future.  
 
I was so moved listening to James and his courage to be open and his ability to help others find God, remove shame, and find hope in their lives.   I was also moved by James spiritual maturity and understanding of core gospel principles to navigate his future.
 
If you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, a parent of a queer child, an ally, or a local leader—I encourage you to listen to James’ story and share it with others.   Thank you, James, for being on the podcast.  You are a good man and will continue to bless many lives.   Honored to have you on the podcast.
 
Links:
 
James Google Document:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yK07P9h3mNY9YxdzYhmmHRdAW7uyaH1TWAUbIikPhcw/edit?fbclid=IwAR38ebW2wd3DbxKLYhGNoHc3Y4xl1Qs5xxnH3g2Twb09_pYQpGZduTYdB34
 
James’ e-mail:  jimmydsmart@gmail.com
 
James’ cell:  208-390-7722
 
James’ Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100020344095709
 
James’ Instagram:  @james.d.smart

Episode 747: James Smart, Gay Latter-day Saint, Recent RM, BYU Student

My friend Nate Miller (grew up in Davis County, lives in Salt Lake County, Philippines RM, U of U graduation, no longer attending church) joins us to share his story.   Nate starts with reading a powerful journal entry/letter during his mission that shares his journey (since age 6) of navigating being different and eventually realizing he is gay.   

Nate is so vulnerable, honest—with a gift of words to share his journey.  I was so moved with Nate’s courage to be so honest—which helps us better understand what it is like to be alone figuring out one’s sexual orientation—and gives us insights what we can do to improve our culture to better support our queer friends.
 
Nate talks about finding hope about his future and his family’s unconditional love and support.   Nate also talks about advice he would give to his younger self “who was listening five years ago”.    
 
Like many of our episodes, I continue to be moved by brave people willing to share their stories out of love to help others find hope in their lives.   I was also moved by Nate’s family and their words of unconditional love and support—this is a beautiful family love story. 
 
This is also a good podcast on principles to keep the family circle together and strong when a family member steps away from the church.
 
Thank you, Nate, for your courage to be on the podcast.  You are a good man—your story will help so many.   You have a great life ahead of you.   All my love and respect to you and the Miller family.

Links:  Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Nate Miler on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/nate.miller.129142

Nate Miller on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/itsnertme/

Episode 748: Nate Miller, Gay, Age 26

My friends Cameo and Cooper Johnson (LDS parents of 4 children, live in Flagstaff AZ, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioners) join us to share their story from the perspective of both LDS parents of a queer daughter (RM, engaged to another RM woman) and their professional work specializing in supporting LDS LGBTQ individuals and families.   In the episode, the Johnsons bring unique and helpful perspectives from their experience as parents and also work as mental health practitioners that help all of us.  
 
Some of the topics covered by the Johnsons include:
 
1.  Why they are excited and supportive of their daughter’s same-sex marriage.
2.  Why they stay members of the Church.
3.  What gives them hope and peace for their “eternal family”.
4.  What gives them hope for the future of the Church.
5.  The difference between core values and core beliefs.
6.  How to better see and support families who fit “outside of the idealized version”.
7.  The parable of the Good Samaritan.
8.  How personal growth often occurs “when we look inward and check ourselves.”
 
This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done as the Johnsons bring their clinical experience and parental experience to help us better love and support our queer family members and friends.  I encourage you to listen to this episode and share it with others.  
 
Thank you, Cameo and Cooper Johnson, for being on the podcast and your work to help bring us together as the same human family.  Honored to have you on the podcast!
 
Links:
 
Cameo Johnson, PMHNP
Ponderosa Psychiatry
https://www.ponderosapsychiatry.com/
info@ponderosapsychiatry.com
Psychology Today Profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/profile/737606
 
Cooper Johnson, PMHNP
Advanced Mental Health and Wellness
https://advancedmhw.com/
support@advancedmhw.com
Psychology Today Profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/psychiatrists/advanced-mental-health-wellness-williams-az/441627

Episode 749: Cameo & Cooper Johnson, LDS Parents of a Queer Daughter

**This episode talks about suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988**
 
My friend Erik Thompson (Age 40, single, active LDS, RM) bravely shares his story with a heart full of desire to give others hope.   Erik vulnerable and bravely talks about:
 
Being a survivor of sexual abuse at age 13.
Spiritual OCD (Scrupulosity).
Porn and masturbation.
Coming home from his mission (after a suicide attempt) at 9 months.
Need for love and belonging.
Becoming sexually active—in unsafe situations—drug use—and more suicidal ideation.
Healing words from a senior Church leader including the “Savior is thrilled with you” and returning to Church activity.
You are here to love.
Upcoming NorthStar Conference.
 
Erik can authentically teach the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal us from pain and to help us repent because Erik has the courage to share his story—helping us all understand that we too can find hope in our story—even the most difficult times of our lives.   Part of Erik’s story is on the Church’s YouTube channel (see show notes).
 
Thank you, Erik, for being on the podcast.   You are one of my new heroes.   Your story will help so many.   You are a good man.
 
Links:
 
Erik’s Church YouTube:  youtu.be/7avoFnympIg?si=vEBk7_YX709HGqfM
 
NorthStar Conference:  allevents.in/salt%20lake%20city/2024-north-star-conference/10000761893222137
 
Erik’s e-mail:  erikguy@gmail.com
 
Erik’s cell:  202-595-4747
 
TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@etpiano83?_t=8lNeC55a9hC&_r=1
 
Scrupulosity Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts
 
Richard Ostler Free Chapter Links:
 
Ending Porn Use:  www.dropbox.com/s/w2ex40l4se85wku/Chapter%204%20Ending%20Pornography%20Use.%20%20Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Latter-day%20Saint%20Culture.pdf?dl=0
 
Hope Filled Repentance:  www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1lo38ejspdzwfxngaaotm/Chapter-5-Hope-Filled-Repentance.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Lattter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=18kd8tqtmls60b14y7ilc1f2i&dl=0
 
Overcoming Scrupulosity:  www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0

Episode 750:  Erik Thompson, Gay Latter-day Saint,  Overcoming Addiction,  Finding Hope in Christ

My friend Jashon Ray Fabia (Age 33, single, LDS, RM, BYU-H grad in Psychology and Music, finishing Master's in Music Therapy) bravely shares his story as a queer Filipino Latter-day Saint (our first guest from the Philippines) and his new book (see show notes).
 
Jashon shares the shame he felt which continued until he came out to himself in his mid-20’s and others allowing Jashon to feel authentic and reduce/eliminate shame.   It is a brave story of working through suicidal ideation to find hope and peace.    Jashon talks about his focus on service to help other marginalized group, future projects and hopes for other queer Filipinos.
 
Jashon concludes with reconciliation with his parents including grace with family members along this journey.    Thank you, Jashon, for being on the podcast, writing your book, and sharing your story to give hope to others.   You are a good man doing much healing in our world.   Glad to have you on the podcast.
 
Links:
 
Jashon’s book:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218917
 
Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 751: Jashon Fabia, Author: “Swirling in the Eddy: LDS, Filipino, & Gay”

** This podcast mentions suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

Guest host Tonya Miller interviews Kyle Jones, M.D., who talks about his most recent book, “When All Hope Seems Lost: A Gospel Perspective on Mental Illness in Youth,” which will be released later this month. Kyle is a Family Practice physician who works primarily with neurodivergent individuals and their families. He is active in the Church, and he and his wife are the parents of four children.
 
Kyle shares his story of first being diagnosed with mental illness as a student, with significant worsening during his medical residency. This is the topic of his first book: “Fallible: A Memoir of a Young Physician’s Struggle with Mental Illness.” He talks about noticing mood disorder symptoms when he was a teenager, but not realizing that he was dealing with mental illness at the time. The cumulative effects of the stress he experienced as a medical student and resident led him to eventually learn that he was living with anxiety and depression, for which he still takes medication and participates in therapy. Kyle describes ways that he started to share his story with other physicians and learned that he was not as alone as he feared. From there, he has continued to develop opportunities for providing outreach and education about mental illness, especially for members of the Church. He began to realize that there are not many resources about mental illness for youth in the Church, along with ongoing myths and stigma about the relation of mental illness to the gospel, which led him to write this book.
 
Kyle describes the complexities that youth in the Church face, and ways that specific gospel principles can help them heal, even when, in some cases, there is no “cure” for what they are dealing with. He shares stories of teens who have worked though challenges with mental illness that he interviewed for his book. He also interviewed mental health professionals who work with teens and talks about some of the insights they provide. Kyle refers to what he calls the “Broken Record” messages of the gospel that can bolster youth who fear they have done something “wrong” to “cause” their mental illness. They are: 1) Jesus loves you, no matter what, 2) Mental illness is not your fault, and 3) There are people here to help.
 
I am very grateful for Kyle’s willingness to share his story and perspectives around ways that principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ can ground and empower youth if they are experiencing mental illness while simultaneously navigating the complexities of life. 
 
As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). 
 
Links for Kyle’s books and other resources are found below.
www.kylebradfordjones.com
Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram: @kbjones11   
Previous books: www.amazon.com/stores/Kyle-Bradford-Jones/author/B082WKSNYY?
When All Hope Seems Lost:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYCXFVB9

Episode 752: Kyle Jones, M.D., Author

My friend Arthur Wiseman (who returned from his successful mission in Gilbert Arizona in Dec of 2023, plans to become a therapist, and returned to live in Arizona) shares his mission experience.   Arthur (who knew he was gay since age 6 and planned to tell no one) shares what it was like starting his mission and feeling spiritual promptings (many times during his mission) to open up about being gay because of a desire to help others find hope and Christ in their lives.
 
Arthur talks about a variety of wonderful, spiritual, and sometimes painful experiences only possible because he was open.  Arthur talks about developing a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and making Christ the center of his life.  He talks about the personal revelation he is receiving.    Arthur also talks about how being vulnerable allowed him to be a safe place for his companions to open up about their lives—providing beautiful insights on how to better minister to each other.    Arthur talks about his supportive companions and what they proactively did to show their support.
 
This is a powerful podcast from a brave and faithful gay Latter-day Saint.   Arthur (and all those allies who support him) give me hope for the future as we work to build Zion.   Thank you for being on the podcast Authur.   Honored that more can hear your story.   You are a good man.
 
Links:
 
Facebook:  www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555422532064
 
Instagram:  @arthur.w.wiseman
 
Facebook Group mentioned in the podcast:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/706348281603277

Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 753: Arthur Wiseman, Recently Returned Gay LDS Missionary

My good brother David (author of “Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question”) joins us to talk about his new book which gives readers a gospel-based framework and tools to navigate the increasingly polarized and contentious landscape of modern society.    
 
In the podcast, David talks about why he wrote the book, who is the audience, and how he hopes it helps us better come together as the same human family.  David talks in a practical way of the skills and approaches to eliminate contention and become peacemakers.   
 
If you are feeling tensions of conflict with family, friends, fellow church members—or want to better ministering tools to bring people together,  I invite you to read/share David’s book.  It is a serious book needed in a divisive time—packed with the latest information from the finest minds, research, and scriptural/church leader insights to help heal our divides.
 
Thank you, Dave, for all your great work in our community to bring us together.   
 
Links:
 
Dave’s book on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958774X
 
Dave’s book on Amazon (Kindle):  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZ4R7S2T
 
Dave’s book at Kofford Books:  https://gregkofford.com/products/healing-our-divides
 
Dave’s e-mail:  healingourdivides@gmail.com

Episode 754: David Ostler “Healing our Divides: Answering the Savior’s Call to be Peacemakers.”

My friends Kate Kendrick (she/her) and her non-binary child Morgan (they/them) join us to share their story.  Kate, who is no longer active LDS, joins us to talk about her journey to become an LGBTQ ally and then fully love and accept her sixteen-year-old non-binary/pansexual child who goes by the pseudonym "Morgan." (who is age 16). It is a beautiful family love story. Kate offers helpful principles and perspective for parents to love and support their queer children.
 
Kate also talks about her decision to no longer participate in the Church and what we can do to build bridges of understanding between those in the Church and those who have left the Church.   Kate is not asking other people to leave the Church—rather, she is suggesting what we can do to bring both parties together as members of the same human family.   
 
Morgan, who is wise beyond their years, talks about what gives them hope and shares their advice to queer people who have less more. struggle with those who don't accept their sexuality/gender identity and/or are feeling suicidal.    
 
Thank you, Kate and Morgan, for being on the podcast. Your story helps us learn how to better support others.  
 
Links:  TikTok Page: @Midlife Exmo Momma -- Please note that, though Kate truly makes an effort to build bridges between members and former members of the Church, some content may not feel appropriate for those seeking to build their testimony of the Church. Please use discretion when watching her videos.

Episode 755: Kate Kendrick and her non-binary child Morgan

Welcome to our podcast!   

My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren.  I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books: 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022.  The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6003149.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

“Listen Learn and Love:  Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023.  The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6026921.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.  

Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016.   Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

I am the author of two Ensign articles:

‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

 ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.   

This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

Thank you for joining us.   You can't donate to this podcast.  There are no sponsors.   But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤

Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook:  facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

Richard Ostler

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