Steve and Katie talk to Susan Mumford and Chris King, co-founders of ArtAML, about the recent roll out of AML regulations covering art market participants in the United Kingdom, who is implicated, how they can comply, and what this means for art businesses and the culture of secrecy in the art market generally. The requirement to determine and seek documentation of the ultimate beneficial owner on each end of the transaction is something financial institutions have long done, but not art dealers. ArtAML is an online platform designed to help art market participants comply with their legal obligations of due diligence and documentation. This conversation is of particular interest to those in the United States as the United Kingdom is the second largest art market outside the United States, and we expect AML regulations to roll out to the art market in the United States soon.

How Anti-Money Laundering Regulations are Hitting the Art Market in the United Kingdom and What Participants Can Do to Comply

Susan Mumford and Chris King, co-founders of ArtAML, return to the Podcast and talk with Steve about the recent release by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network ("FinCEN") of its “Study of the Facilitation of Money Laundering and the Financing of Terrorism through the Trade in Works of Art." To the surprise of Steve and his guests, FinCEN concluded that there is limited evidence of money laundering and little risk of terror financing through the sale of high value art. The discussion focuses on the findings of the study, and its implications, particularly when compared with the existing AML regulations covering the art market in the UK and the EU. (Susan and Chris discussed these requirements with Katie and Steve on the November 1, 2021 episode entitled: “How Anti-Money Laundering Regulations are Hitting the Art Market in the United Kingdom and What Participants Can Do to Comply.”) &nbsp;Recorded just days after Russian troops invaded Ukraine, the conversation turned to the impact that sanctions against Russia and its oligarchs are likely to have on the high-value art market, and what art market participants must do to not run afoul of these sanctions.&nbsp;

Anti-Money Laundering Update: FinCEN's Surprising Conclusion and the Impact of Russian Sanctions on the US Art Market

Katie and Steve talk to Spanish art lawyer and scholar, Patricia Fernández, about the history of thousands of artwork seizures during the Spanish Civil War and the Spanish government’s actions with respect to these artworks since then through today.

The Art Seizures of the Spanish Civil War

Steve and Katie speak with Amy Whitaker about her new book with Nora Burnett Abrams&nbsp;The Story of NFTs: Artists, Technology and Democracy. Amy describes her vision for the promise of NFTs for artists and a more equitable art market and discusses the democratic incentives NFTs create in this world. They discuss NFTs in the context of the current moment of uncertainty around the future of cryptocurrency, the blockchain, and the value of NFTs in general and the potential problems and limitations of NFTs within the fine art ecosystem.  Notes for this episode:  Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

The Promise of NFTs for Artists and the Art Market

Katie and Steve talk to Philippa Loengard, copyright expert and Director of the Kernochan Center for Law, Media and the Arts at Columbia Law School, about the much-anticipated Supreme Court decision in Andy Warhol Foundation v. Goldsmith,&nbsp;which resets and limits the applicability of “transformative” fair use as an exception to copyright infringement. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

SCOTUS Says Warhol Not So Fast: The Limitations of Transformative Use

Katie and Steve speak with WIPO economists Alexander Cuntz and Matthias Sahli about their recent article, Intermediary liability and trade in follow-on innovation,&nbsp;published in the Journal of Cultural Economics in February 2023. Their research looks at how intermediaries in the art market altered their behavior after the Second Circuit’s decision in&nbsp;Cariou v. Prince, which was seen as greatly expanding permissible fair use in appropriation art. THIS PODCAST WAS RECORDED BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT’S DECISION IN THE&nbsp;WARHOL&nbsp;CASE, WHICH PULLED BACK ON THE TRANSFORMATIVE USE ANALYSIS FOR COPYRIGHT FAIR USE. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

Do Market Players React to Court Decisions Impacting Art?

Steve and Katie speak with Dr. Carina Popovici, CEO and Founder of Art Recognition, an art and technology startup that uses AI systems to evaluation the authenticity of artworks. They discuss the problems with authentication in the traditional art market and the promise and limitations of AI in solving these problems along with some real-world examples. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

What Can Artificial Intelligence Offer Art Authentication?

Steve and Katie talk with their colleague Tom Kline about his client, the Massachusetts Charitable Mechanic Association (MCMA), and its decades-long quest to reclaim the dramatic marble statue The Wounded Indian by Peter Stephenson, modeled after the Roman sculpture The Dying Gaul. MCMA was founded by Paul Revere in 1795 and was gifted the statue in 1893. After vacating its storied headquarters in 1958, MCMA was told the statute had been destroyed. Only in 2023 did it get the statue back. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

Returning "The Wounded Indian" Statue to Massachusetts

Katie and Steve talk with renowned art lawyer Pierre Valentin about the EU’s new and striking import regulations on cultural goods, including fine art and cultural property, that prohibit the import of applicable items not created in the EU into the EU if they cannot be shown to have been legally exported from their countries of origin. We discuss the impetus for these regulations, the problem with discerning ownership and export history of cultural property, and the key problems with the new regulation’s successful implementation and enforcement. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

New Hurdles to Importing Art in the EU

Steve and Katie take a look at the many developments around generative AI and fine art, including debates and litigation on copyrightability and infringement as well as the policy concerns surrounding increased use of generative AI to create artworks. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:  TikTok:

2023 AI and Art Wrap Up

Katie and Steve discuss three recent litigation updates. They discuss the outcome of the trial in the case brought by Dmitry Rybolovlev against Sotheby’s for aiding in the alleged fraud of Yves Bouvier, the most recent Richard Prince fair use copyright infringement cases brought by two photographers, and the Ninth Circuit decision applying Spanish law to deny return of a Pissarro painting to the family of Lily Cassirer, whose property was looted by the Nazis and is currently located in a Spanish museum. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:&nbsp; TikTok:&nbsp;

Art Law Litigation Updates: Fraud, Fair Use, and Nazi Looting

Katie and Steve take a deep dive into the history and current status of the Parthenon Marbles with Alexander Herman, director of the Institute of Art and Law in London and author of the recent book&nbsp;The Parthenon Marbles Dispute: Heritage, Law, Politics. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:&nbsp; TikTok:&nbsp;

The Parthenon Marbles Dispute

Katie and Steve speak with colleague Eden Burgess about the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA), its history, purpose, and requirements to repatriate cultural property and human remains to Native American tribes and Native Hawaiian Organizations, as well as new regulations that are leading major museums to remove or close exhibitions of Native American and Hawaiian objects while taking action to implement NAGPRA in consultation with tribes that have ownership claims. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:&nbsp; TikTok:&nbsp;

The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act Gets Some Teeth

Steve and Katie talk with their colleague, Tom Kline, about the Nazi’s program of remaking European culture, the enormous theft and displacement of art that occurred as part of that program, and the efforts of the heirs of Jews displaced during World War II to reclaim art and cultural property. The discussion focuses on the Washington Principles, the updated best practices issued upon their 25th anniversary, and how claims for restitution have changed over this time. &nbsp; Notes for this episode:  &nbsp; Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram:&nbsp; TikTok:&nbsp;

The 25th Anniversary of the Washington Conference Principles and Where We are on Nazi-Looted Art

In our first full-length episode, we discuss the Berkshire Museum’s controversial decision to sell off 40 works of iconic art from its permanent collection to raise funds to rebrand itself as a science and natural history museum, and build a large endowment.&nbsp; Only after the regional museum had signed an agreement with Sotheby’s auction house to deaccession these works, did the museum announce its plans to the public.&nbsp; Museum and cultural groups, the fine arts community, and certain local constituents have passionately opposed these plans.&nbsp; Other stakeholders and commentators have strongly supported the museum’s efforts to monetize its collection and rebrand.&nbsp; We will discuss both the ethical and legal issues around deaccessioning and the Berkshire Museum’s actions in particular.&nbsp; We are joined by the financial and art-market journalist, Felix Salmon.  More information on the Berkshire Museum and deaccessioning: From Felix Salmon:  http://www.felixsalmon.com/  https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-lost-masterpieces-of-norman-rockwell-country  https://hyperallergic.com/409126/berkshire-museum-battle-sothebys-auction/  More perspectives:  https://berkshiremuseum.org/newvision/  https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2017/11/26/change-die-choice-clear-for-berkshire-museum/zLEFaUrZiXfJRNlhaVeb1K/story.html  https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/01/27/the-berkshire-museum-defends-its-most-important-asset-its-open-doors/M92tisiPanIT93ZHXKysCP/story.html  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/arts/design/berkshire-museum-art-auction-criticized.html  http://www.artnews.com/2017/07/25/museum-alliance-and-directors-group-issue-open-letter-criticizing-berkshire-museums-deaccession-plan/  Litigation status and some papers:   http://www.artnews.com/2018/02/05/berkshire-museum-case-heads-massachusetts-supreme-court/  http://www.berkshireeagle.com/stories/big-reveal-from-ag-due-monday-on-berkshire-museum,531233  https://www.scribd.com/document/362156288/Complaint-in-Berkshire-Museum-Case  http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wfcr/files/verified_complaint_b2211761_.pdf?_ga=2.41888810.982465672.1508763064-1725306865.1506095323  https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/878449/Motion%20for%20Injunction%20Pending%20Appeal(B2218262).pdf?t=1518034885672  More about deaccessioning:   https://www.aamd.org/sites/default/files/document/PositionPaperDeaccessioning%2011.07.pdf  https://www.npr.org/2014/08/11/339532879/as-museums-try-to-make-ends-meet-deaccession-is-the-art-worlds-dirty-word  http://www.philly.com/philly/education/la-salle-museum-plans-sale-of-prized-artwork-masterpieces-20180103.html  https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/arts/design/censured-delaware-art-museum-plans-to-divest-more-works.html http://legacy.wbur.org/2011/10/28/rose-art-museum http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/arts/design/28fink.html  Episode 1 Transcription Steven Schindler: Hi, I’m Steven Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne: I’m Katie Wilson-Milne. Steven Schindler: Welcome to the Art Law of Podcast, a monthly podcast exploring the places where art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne: And vice-versa. The Art Law Podcast is sponsored by the law firm Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premier litigation and art law boutique New York City. Felix Salmon: There’s this very vivid and high-stakes debate, which people care about very much about the deaccessioning and like 99% of the planet has no idea it really exists. But, the people who care about it, care about it very much. They basically said, look at this, there is a bunch of billionaires out there in the world who are willing to pay millions and millions of dollars for the art in our little museum, and we don’t have very much money and we can raise like $50 million just by selling off all of our art. And then, honestly we would rather have $50 million then the bunch of dusty old paintings, this art is worth more to those billionaires who we...

Can a Museum Sell Your Art?: The Berkshire Museum Saga As a Cautionary Tale

On this month’s podcast we discuss the role of science in fine art.&nbsp; Specifically, what can science tell us about a work of art’s origin and authenticity?&nbsp; Can science help us discover fakes and forgeries undetected by traditional connoisseur style observation?&nbsp; We are joined by the famous art scientist Jamie Martin to discuss these issues, recount famous forgery scandals, and delve into his techniques and practices. Show notes: &nbsp;http://orionanalytical.com/media/  http://www.sothebys.com/en/news-video/blogs/all-blogs/sotheby-s-at-large/2016/12/scientist-art-world-james-martin.html https://www.wired.com/2016/12/how-to-detect-art-forgery/  https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-the-8-most-prolific-forgers-in-art-history-that-we-know-of  https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/10/wolfgang-beltracchi-helene-art-scam  https://news.artnet.com/market/forger-wolfgang-beltracchi-exhibition-296551  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/19/arts/design/ken-perenyi-art-forger-now-sells-his-work-as-copies.html Episode 2 Transcription:&nbsp; Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Hi. I'm Steve Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; I'm Katie Wilson-Milne. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Welcome to the Art Law podcast, a monthly podcast exploring the places where art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; And vice versa. &nbsp;The Art Law Podcast is sponsored by the Law firm of Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premier litigation and art law boutique in New York City. On this episode of the podcast we will be discussing the role of science and fine art. Specifically what can science tell us about the work of arts origin and authenticity? Can science help us discover fakes and forgeries that would be undetected by more traditional connoisseur-style observation? Steve Schindler:&nbsp; We’re here today with Jamie Martin, Senior Vice President and Director of Scientific Research at Sotheby’s auction house, a title that really doesn’t do Jamie justice. Jamie is an artist, art conservator and forensic scientist. In 2000, he founded a company called Orion Analytical that became the preeminent materials analysis and consulting firm, specializing in the scientific analysis of art and cultural property. Working at the intersection of art and science, Jamie has revealed multimillion dollar forgeries in the art market, taught at The Getty Conservation Institute and the FBI, and conducted more than 1800 scientific investigations for museums, galleries, insurance companies, and private collectors around the world. Katie and I have both worked closely with Jamie and it is a genuine pleasure to welcome him to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast Jamie. Jamie Martin:&nbsp; Hi! Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; Yes, thanks for being here Jamie. So what can science tell us about art? Jamie Martin:&nbsp; The way I like to phrase it is, is that science helps art tell its own story. Science can reveal the structure of the work, its composition and its condition. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; How Jamie would you say that science intersects with questions about authenticity and fraud? Jamie Martin:&nbsp; Well, in about 2009, the College Art Association codified guidelines and standards for authentications and attributions. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; What is the College Art Association? Jamie Martin:&nbsp; I'm not a member, but my understanding is that it’s a national association of art historians principally in colleges but also working privately or working in museums as well. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Okay, so they came out with some guidelines? Jamie Martin:&nbsp; They did and in codifying guidelines they identified three essential elements involved in the authentication attribution process. The first oldest most important and never to be replaced is stylistic connoisseurship, which is examination with learned eye of the scholar. The scholar is the person or the entity that attributes and actually authenticates work of art. The second...

What Can Science Tell Us About Art?

Scientist Jamie Martin talks with us about wine forger Rudy Kurniawan, his work investigating wine fraud and the similarities between wine and art. Show notes: https://www.netflix.com/title/80029708 Bonus Clip Transcription:&nbsp; Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; So we would be remiss to let you leave without talking about another type of good that Steve and I like a lot, wine. &nbsp;So you worked on the famous Rudy Kurniawan Wine Fraud case, and I'm curious how you transitioned from art to wine and how they’re similar or dissimilar?&nbsp; Jamie Martin:&nbsp; Yeah, the first experience with wine that I recall was working for Bill Koch for his civil case. Bill Koch had amassed vast wine cellar some of which was determined to have been fake wines and he unleashed to series of lawsuits against various wine auctions and auction houses and dealers. And he brought me in as a forensic expert to examine the bottles, to examine the labels, to examine the capsules, corks for evidence of historically inaccurate materials. Looking at a wine label is not a lot different than looking at a printed or painted work on paper. Something I was trained to do and I had done many, many times before. &nbsp;Looking at glass is not that different than looking at a vase. Looking at capsule is not that different than looking at something made of a malleable level. &nbsp;So in that case I was able to determine that the labels on many of the fraudulent bottles had been applied with modern adhesives. &nbsp;In some cases Elmer’s Glue and other cases glue stick, which was not available at the time that these vintages purportedly were bottled. Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; Not used in Burgundy in 1890. Jamie Martin:&nbsp; Not typically, no. Some of the papers were papers that were coated with a modern material called styrene, which postdated the vintages by decades. Some of the labels had optical brightening agents in them, which under a black light, would make the labels glow. &nbsp;And many of the labels were printed with inks. And the colors of those inks weren’t invented or used at the time of the vintages. There was also deliberate aging of the labels. Material was used to cut out or clip out corners of the labels to make it look as if they’ve been slid back and forth in a rack. And then there was suspicious material rubbed over the label and bottled to make it look old. And in some cases we found synthetic material was used for that. Some of it was directional. Essentially it was not consistent with the deposition of grime or mold that you would expect if a bottle was conventionally stored in a wine cellar. That case carried over to the Rudy Kurniawan case where I was sent a large number of labels that were ceased in Kurniawan’s apartment in California, and I hope you provide a link to Sour Grapes on Netflix. &nbsp;And it – Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; I will.&nbsp; Great movie.&nbsp; Less of an apartment and more of a large wealthy person’s house. Jamie Martin:&nbsp; It was essentially a wine – a fake wine factory, and there were a large collection of labels yet to be dated, and the FBI sent those to me.&nbsp; And when you look at some papers and hold them up to light, sometimes you see a watermark. You often see this on good stationary. Probably stationary from Steve and Katie’s law firm has a watermark – and watermarks can be traced to companies and watermarks can be traced to the introduction of a kind of paper. So just doing basic detective work, I was able to trace the paper to an Indonesian paper company who said, “Oh yeah, this is our paper. Would you like to know when we started making it?” &nbsp;And I said, “sure.” And they said, “1980s.” Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; So good. Wow! Jamie Martin:&nbsp; So that was proof positive that Kurniawan was using a material that postdated his latest vintage by 20 or 30 years. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Right and there is an analogy between wine and art in this sense, which is the value that...

Bonus Clip: Jamie Martin on Wine Fraud

On this month’s podcast we discuss the non-economic “moral rights” of artists in the context of the famous 5Pointz aerosol art mecca in Long Island City, Queens that was whitewashed and torn down in 2013.&nbsp; In the ensuing litigation, the aerosol artists asserted violations of their moral rights under the Visual Artist Rights Act, the U.S. moral rights statute.&nbsp; In a surprise to many, they recently won $6.7 million in damages after succeeding on these claims. &nbsp;The art, however, was permanently lost.&nbsp; Steve and Katie discuss the origin and contours of moral rights, how they fit into U.S. copyright law, the story of 5Pointz and the laws around street art and graffiti.&nbsp; They are joined by famous aerosol artist Jonathan Cohen (Meres One), 5Pointz event planner and artist representative Marie Cecile Flageul, and Renee Vara, the artists’ expert in the 5Pointz trial.   Resources:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/nyregion/5pointz-graffiti-judgment.html  https://news.artnet.com/art-world/judge-awards-6-million-5pointz-lawsuit-1222394  http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/artists-won-at-5pointz-but-the-decision-was-terrible-for-art.html &nbsp;  https://www.google.com/search?q=photos+of+5pointz&amp;rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS753US753&amp;source=lnms&amp;tbm=isch&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiZ5PiEtqbaAhUSuFMKHbrMCd8Q_AUICigB&amp;biw=1920&amp;bih=949  https://untappedcities.com/2014/10/14/35-photos-from-inside-the-demolition-at-5-pointz/ &nbsp; http://www.meresone.com/about/ http://meventusa.com/ms/marie-cecile-flageul/ https://www.varaart.com/ &nbsp;  5Pointz Opinion Denying Injunction  5Pointz Decision &nbsp;  Photo Credit:&nbsp;Anthony Delmundo/New York Daily News &nbsp;  Photo credit:&nbsp;Emmanuel Dunand/AFP/Getty Images &nbsp;  Photo Credit:&nbsp;Christina Santucci &nbsp;  (Left to right: Marie Cecile Flageul, Jonathan Cohen (Meres One), Renee Vara, Katie Wilson-Milne, and Steve Schindler)  &nbsp; &nbsp;  Produced by Jackie Santos.

Moral Rights in Street Art: The 5Pointz Story

On this month’s podcast, we take a close look at art auctions – how they work, their place in the art market and the rules and regulations that confine/define them.&nbsp; Auctions at Sotheby’s and Christie’s now regularly net tens and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars for a single work.&nbsp; Christie’s recently sold Leonardo da Vinci’s Salvator Mundi painting for $450 million, by far the highest price ever garnered by a piece of art at auction.&nbsp; At the same time, much about the auction process remains secret.&nbsp; The identity of the buyer and seller is often known only to the auction house, and the reserve price (below which an artwork will not be sold) is known by the auctioneer but not the bidders.&nbsp; While the auctioneer may not sell a work of art below its reserve price, it can bid on the work below the reserve to get the auction going.&nbsp; Steve and Katie discuss these issues and others having to do with regulation, transparency and potential conflicts, and welcome famous Sotheby’s auctioneer Oliver Barker to take us behind the scenes of a big auction.   Resources: http://www.sothebys.com/en/specialists/oliver-barker/bio.html  https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/arts/design/as-art-market-rise-so-do-questions-of-oversight.html  https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/about/auctioneer_law_rules.pdf https://www.princeton.edu/ceps/workingpapers/203ashenfelter.pdf https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/place_your_bids  http://blogs.cornell.edu/info2040/2015/10/15/auction-psychology-emotions-behind-bidding/ https://mindhacks.com/2012/09/19/bbc-column-auction-psychology/  https://www.thecut.com/2016/12/inside-the-mind-of-a-million-dollar-art-bidder.html  Episode 4 Transcription Steve Schindler: &nbsp;Hi, I’m Steve Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; I’m Katie Wilson-Milne. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Welcome to the Art Law Podcast a monthly podcast exploring the places were art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne: &nbsp;And vice versa.&nbsp;&nbsp; The art law podcast is sponsored by the law firm of Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premier ligation and art law boutique in New York City. Oliver Barker: &nbsp;There was that element of, you know, great excitement coupled with complete fear in terms of – kind of the very live nature of that performance, and that’s something which has always appealed to me as an auctioneer.&nbsp; You know, there’s a very live entertainment kind of perspective of that role. Steve Schindler: &nbsp;Katie, I received some feedback on the podcast from listeners this weekend, and one of the comments that was made to me was with respect, particularly to the Berkshire Museum Deaccessioning episode, that this listener didn’t think that we were necessarily impartial enough or that we were taking sides.&nbsp; And I thought about that a little bit and one of the things that I feel is that we're not journalist. &nbsp;We're not pretending to be journalists and we have points of view, and I think we're going to express them. &nbsp;What I think is also important, though, is where possible to have people aligned with different points of view, and we are very open to that.&nbsp; So, I would say if somebody from Berkshire Museum who listened to our podcast, a representative or a member of the Board of Trustees, would like to come on and present their point of view in conversation with us – Katie Wilson-Milne: &nbsp;We would love that. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; We would love that. &nbsp;And similarly with respect to the 5Pointz episode, we spent a lot of time with the artists and people involved in 5Pointz, but certainly if Mr. Wolkoff wants to come on and talk about what motivated him – Katie Wilson-Milne: To develop the site. Steve Schindler: &nbsp;We're happy to have him on – and have the conversation. &nbsp;We will still have the same view points that we have, but we certainly would like to engage with people who have...

Art of the Chase: Inside Art Auctions

On this month’s episode, Steve and Katie dive into the charged topic of censorship.&nbsp; With guest Professor Amy Adler they talk about government and non-government attempts to censor art, what the legal boundaries are and where the law actually has little if nothing to say about censorship of art.&nbsp; They describe applicable First Amendment doctrine, apply it to art and examine particular examples of art “censorship” from the culture wars of the 1990s through today, from both the political right and left.    Cases: NEA v. Finley, 524 U.S. 569 (1998) https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/524/569/ &nbsp; Brooklyn Institute of Arts v. City of New York, 64 F. Supp. 2d 184 (EDNY 1999)  https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/64/184/2578531/ &nbsp; Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15 (1973) https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/413/15/case.html &nbsp; More on Professor Amy Adler:  https://its.law.nyu.edu/facultyprofiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.publications&amp;personid=19731  https://its.law.nyu.edu/faculty/profiles/representiveFiles/AAdler%20-WhatsLeft_07384796-06AF-3DCE-319D61EB85F8DEE0.pdf  https://its.law.nyu.edu/faculty/profiles/representiveFiles/AAdler%20-ArtofCensorship_072BB4FD-0B4D-10ED-EBBCFBD203509CC8.pdf &nbsp; Articles on topics discussed:  https://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/28/nyregion/giuliani-dropping-his-bitter-battle-with-art-museum.html  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-art-fought-law-and-art-won-180956810/  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/30/AR2010113004647.html  https://conversations.e-flux.com/t/hannah-blacks-letter-to-the-whitney-biennials-curators-dana-schutz-painting-must-go/6287  https://hyperallergic.com/368290/censorship-not-the-painting-must-go-on-dana-schutzs-image-of-emmett-till/  https://news.artnet.com/art-world/dana-schutz-controversy-recent-protests-changed-museums-forever-1236020  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/arts/design/emmett-till-whitney-biennial-schutz.html  https://news.artnet.com/art-world/walker-sculpture-garden-to-remove-sam-durant-scaffold-977447  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/arts/design/walker-art-center-scaffold.html  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/arts/design/guggenheim-art-and-china-after-1989-animal-welfare.html  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/28/arts/design/chuck-close-exhibit-harassment-accusations.html  https://www.theartnewspaper.com/analysis/museums-too-what-should-institutions-do-when-artists-are-accused-of-abuse  Produced by Jackie Santos.

Art, Censorship and the First Amendment

On this bonus episode, Katie and Steve discuss the recent SCOTUS case Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 U.S. ___ (2018).&nbsp; In this case, a baker claimed his First Amendment free exercise and free speech rights were violated when he was found in violation of a Colorado statute prohibiting disparate treatment based on sexual orientation in public accommodations for refusing to make and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.&nbsp; The baker refused to make the wedding cake because of his religious objections to gay marriage.&nbsp; Although the controlling decision of the Supreme Court only dealt narrowly with the baker’s free exercise, religious discrimination claim, free expression issues lurked in the background and were taken up directly and forcefully in Justice Thomas’ partial concurrence.&nbsp; Katie and Steve discuss the free expression part of the case and its real or imagined relationship to artist’s rights and government censorship of art.&nbsp; The Art Law Podcast is excited to showcase new musical compositions by Chris Thompson.&nbsp;&nbsp; Chris is a New York City-based music producer, arranger, and percussionist, who has been a longstanding member of the renowned contemporary music ensemble, &nbsp;Alarm Will Sound.&nbsp; Chris has also performed, recorded, or arranged for a long list of internationally recognized artists and ensembles.&nbsp; You can learn more about Chris and his music on his website, www.chrispthompson.com, where you can also listen to and purchase his most recent album, Lot Hero. Resources: &nbsp;https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf

Is Cake “Art” and Entitled to First Amendment Free Speech Protections?

Steve and Katie discuss the Nazis’ complicated and perverse relationship with fine art with attorney and author Nicholas O’Donnell.&nbsp; Nick is the author of the recent book,&nbsp;A Tragic Fate: Law Ethics in the Battle Over Nazi-Looted Art, which tells the story of stolen and appropriated art in World War II Europe and how the U.S. legal system has been instrumental in dealing with claims for restitution decades later.&nbsp; Steve, Katie and Nick start with the historical landscape in 1930s Europe, and discuss some the most contentious and ongoing disputes.  Resources: https://www.sandw.com/professionals-Nicholas-ODonnell.html  https://www.amazon.com/Tragic-Fate-Ethics-Battle-Nazi-Looted/dp/1634257332  https://www.amazon.com/Rape-Europa-Europes-Treasures-Second/dp/0679756868 https://www.state.gov/p/eur/rt/hlcst/270431.htm  https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/31/arts/design/the-story-behind-woman-in-gold-nazi-art-thieves-and-one-paintings-return.html  https://www.theartnewspaper.com/analysis/cranach-s-adam-and-eve-timeline-of-a-decade-long-legal-battle  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-story-monuments-men-180949569/  Episode Transcription Steve Schindler: Hi, I’m Steve Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne: I’m Katie Wilson-Milne. Steve Schindler: Welcome to the Art Law Podcast, a monthly podcast exploring the places where art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne: And vice versa. The Art Law Podcast is sponsored by the law firm of Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premier litigation and art law boutique in New York City. Steve Schindler: Welcome back, everybody, to the second season of the Art Law Podcast. We’re very excited about the new season and looking forward to sharing many new topics in art law and for our episode this season, we’re going to be discussing what is a very important topic and one that we have waited to get to. It’s the topic of Nazi-looted Art and really the legal history of our collective attempts to identify and recover that art after the Second World War. We’re lucky to have with us today, an author and lawyer, Nick O’Donnell, who has just written a fantastic book on the subject and we’re going to spend a little longer than we normally do talking with Nick because the topic is so important. We’re going to beg your indulgence to stick with us a little bit longer than we normally take. Katie Wilson-Milne: The Nazis in establishing The Third Reich in perpetrating the Holocaust were not just interested in purging their territory of non-aryan peoples but also purging it of non-aryan culture. And also appropriating by coercion or outright theft, the personal property of non-aryan, namely Jewish people. To this end, the Nazis looted directly or indirectly in an immense amount of valuable and important art. So much in fact and so devastating was the displacement and violence of the Holocaust, that efforts to reclaim Nazi-looted art for rightful heirs is a contemporary story and one is still working its way through the courts around the world, including in the United States. Steve Schindler: We have with us today our friend and fellow art lawyer Nicholas O’ Donnell who has worked on some of the significant Nazi-looted art cases that we’re going to talk about and who has recently written an excellent book entitled, “A Tragic Fate: Law and Ethics in the Battle Over Nazi-Looted Art,” which details the history of Nazi-looted art and the legal battles that ensued in the post-war era, including today. Nick is a partner in the law firm of Sullivan &amp; Worcester, and his practice focuses on complex litigation in art and museum law, with particular experience in the German speaking world. He’s also the editor of the Art Law Report, a terrific blog that provides timely updates and commentary on legal issues on the museum and visual arts communities. Thank you for being here today, Nick, to discuss your book. Nicholas O’Donnell: Thank you for having...

Nazi Looted Art: Legal Remedies and Limitations

Katie and Steve speak with Philip Hoffman, founder and CEO of&nbsp;The Fine Art Group, about art funds, art financing, and financial guarantees of auctions sales.&nbsp; They also explore&nbsp;how art is performing as an asset class.&nbsp; Philip started the first “art fund” in 2002, and&nbsp;he&nbsp;is&nbsp;one of the world’s leading experts on the financialization of art.    Resources: The Fine Art Group -&nbsp;https://www.fineartgroup.com/en/ http://www.artfundassociation.com/index.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/arts/art-financialization-blockchain.html https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/financial-services/articles/art-and-finance-report.html https://www.ft.com/content/0d4a50f0-cbff-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44 https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-art-loans-popular-ultra-wealthy-good-economic-times-bad https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/guarantees-the-next-big-art-market-scandal  Episode Transcription Steve Schindler: Hi, I’m Steve Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne: I’m Katie Wilson-Milne. Steve Schindler: Welcome to the Art Law Podcast, a monthly podcast exploring the places where art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne: And vice versa. The Art Law Podcast is sponsored by the law firm of Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premier litigation and art law boutique in New York City. Steve Schindler: Hi, Katie. Katie Wilson-Milne: Hi, Steve. So today we are finally, as promised, talking about art and finance. Steve Schindler: Money. Katie Wilson-Milne: And money and a few different examples. As most of our listeners probably know the art world is largely about money but instead of paintings just being expensive we are going to talk today about the financialization of art or how art itself is leading to financial products that might look more familiar to people in other settings. Steve Schindler: Right. And are we going to talk about that question that has popped up it seems like in many, many settings whether art is an alternative asset class? Katie Wilson-Milne: Yeah. That’s something we should ask our guest because I’m not sure about the answer to that. Steve Schindler: All right. Well we will see what he has to say. Katie Wilson-Milne: Philip Hoffman is the founder and CEO of The Fine Art Group. The Fine Art Fund, which is part of the Fine Art Group, was the first fund of its type to invest in art, founded in 2001. Since then, Philip has developed the business into a market leader in both art investment and art advisory. Before launching the Fine Art Group, Philip Hoffman spent 12 years working for Christie’s Auction House. He joined from KPMG and at 33 became the youngest member of the management board and later served as the deputy CEO of Europe. Welcome, Philip. Thank you for joining us. Could you start by telling our listeners a little bit about your career in the art-meets-finance world and also what the Fine Art Group does? Philip Hoffman: So my career is that I started at KPMG as a chartered accountant or CPA and I qualified and my first position was KPMG suggested that I should be finance director of Christie’s. So when I was 27 I became finance director or CFO of Christie’s. And I resigned after a year having done what I wanted to do, which was to clean up the books and the accounts. And then they asked me if I would become deputy chief executive of the European business and get involved in all aspects of the business. And so I had about 300 to 400 people reporting to me when I was about 29, joined the main board at 30 and was then involved in running most of the European business and also setting the global strategy for Christie’s. I was at Christie’s for 12 years and then I left. I had the idea of setting up an art investment fund with Christie’s and at that time Lord Carrington who was the then Chairman, Former Secretary General of NATO said there were too many conflicts of interests. So, we didn’t do it at Christie’s. And I then left to...

The Financialization of Art with Philip Hoffman

In this episode of the podcast,&nbsp;Steve and Katie&nbsp;are&nbsp;in conversation with Jason Bailey, the founder of the Artnome blog and host of the Dank Rares blockchain art podcast about&nbsp;technology and fine art.&nbsp; With a background in art and tech, Jason is one of the foremost authorities on art and technology.&nbsp; The conversation with Jason is wide-ranging from blockchain,&nbsp;provenance,&nbsp;smart contracts,&nbsp;digital art, cryptocurrency, blockchain-driven auctions, privacy, and generative art.  Resources: https://www.artnome.com/ http://dankrares.com/  https://www.christies.com/exhibitions/2018/art-and-tech-summit-exploring-blockchain https://superrare.co/ https://www.cryptokitties.co/ https://portion.io/  https://hyperallergic.com/468060/christies-sells-ai-generated-art-for-432500-as-controversy-swirls-over-creators-use-of-copied-code/ http://rarepepedirectory.com/  https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2018/01/23/much-pepe-scenes-first-rare-digital-art-auction/  Episode Transcription Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Hi, I’m Steve Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; I’m Katie Wilson-Milne. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; Welcome to the Art Law Podcast, a monthly podcast exploring the places where art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne:&nbsp; And vice versa.&nbsp; The Art Law Podcast is sponsored by the law firm of Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premier litigation and art law boutique in New York City. Jason Bailey:&nbsp; I think a lot of times I go to these conferences and people are like, "someday, we will buy machine learning artwork,” and “someday, we will be able to do it on the blockchain,” or “someday, there’ll be this secondary market commission.”&nbsp; It's all already happening. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; So, we are thrilled to have Jason Bailey on the podcast with us today.&nbsp; Jason, who is the host of the Dank Rares blockchain art podcast, describes himself as an artist turned analytics nerd.&nbsp; He is the founder of the Artnome blog and the creator of a database of the -- in his words, world's best known artists.&nbsp; With an MFA from Massachusetts College of Art and Design and 20 years of experience in the tech world, he is now at the forefront of thinking about blockchain in art as well as artificial intelligence in art.&nbsp; And, I started to notice, Jason, that you are a speaker at virtually every conference about blockchain and art.&nbsp; So, welcome to the podcast.&nbsp; Jason, tell us a little bit about yourself and how do you got so interested in art and tech and came to this work. Jason Bailey:&nbsp; Great, yeah, thanks Steven and Katie for having me on the podcast.&nbsp; So, I actually -- I grew up in a family of engineers where my dad was an engineer and my older brother became an engineer and my younger brother became an engineer.&nbsp; and, I decided from a very young age that I wanted to be an artist.&nbsp; So, I was definitely the black sheep within my family.&nbsp; Pretty much every dinner conversation was about new technology and, you know, math and all these things that really weren't of interest to me, but I ended up going to school for painting and sculpture and, you know, essentially studio art and double majoring in art history.&nbsp; And, like a lot of students in art, after I graduated, I realized that I had to like pay for food and pay rent and I got married pretty young.&nbsp; And, there weren't a lot of opportunities out there to sort of be a working artist, and so I caved in and went to the family trade and worked in tech for 20 years or so and took a break midway through -- actually not really a break, but went to school nights and get my MFA because I sort of missed being around artists.&nbsp; But, it's always just sort of been natural for me to have one foot in tech and one foot in art. Steve Schindler:&nbsp; So, tell us a little bit about Artnome then.&nbsp; How did you come to create it? Jason Bailey:&nbsp; Yeah.&nbsp;...

Technologizing Fine Art

Katie and Steve talk with Ben Lewis, author of the new book,&nbsp;The Last Leonardo: The Secret Lives of the World’s Most Expensive Painting,&nbsp;about the history and ultimate sale by Christie’s auction house in November 2017 of the painting&nbsp;Salvator Mundi&nbsp;which they attribute to Leonardo Da Vinci for just over $450.3 million.  Resources: https://www.amazon.com/Last-Leonardo-Secret-Expensive-Painting/dp/1984819259 https://www.christies.com/features/Leonardo-and-Post-War-results-New-York-8729-3.aspx https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/17/last-leonardo-secret-lives-worlds-most-expensive-painting-ben-lewis-review https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-last-leonardo-by-ben-lewis-review-is-salvator-mundi-really-worth-450-million-vqvk2gjx5 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/arts/design/salvator-mundi-louvre-abu-dhabi.html  Episode Transcription Steve Schindler: Hi. I’m Steve Schindler. Katie Wilson-Milne: I’m Katie Wilson-Milne. Steve Schindler: Welcome to the Art Law Podcast, a monthly podcast exploring the places where art intersects with and interferes with the law. Katie Wilson-Milne: The Art Law Podcast is sponsored by the law firm of Schindler Cohen &amp; Hochman LLP, a premiere litigation and art law boutique in New York City. Hi, Steve. Steve Schindler: Hi, Katie. Katie Wilson-Milne: So, today, we are going to finally talk about the drama-filled discovery and sale of the painting Salvator Mundi by Leonardo da Vinci, that was sold on November 15, 2017 at Christie's in New York at the Post-War and Contemporary Evening Sale for the reasonable sum of $450 million including the fees, and that makes it the most expensive painting ever sold. The work was sold in that sale by a Russian oligarch and it was purchased by a Saudi prince. And it has now disappeared from view. It’s thought to be in Switzerland. But all we really know is that it’s not on public display at this point and we don’t know when the world will see it again. The painting is said to be the last discovered Leonardo da Vinci work on earth and is the subject of much critical analysis and as we will discuss today, a fascinating new book. As many of our listeners may already know, there is tremendous disagreement about the painting’s authenticity and restoration process, which is all part of what we will dive into today. Steve Schindler: So, we are here today with Ben Lewis, the author of the soon-to-be-released book entitled, The Last Leonardo: The Secret Lives of the World’s Most Expensive Painting. Ben Lewis is an art critic, author, and documentary filmmaker and visiting fellow at The Warburg Institute in London, and has written widely about art and culture for the international press. His award-winning documentary films include The Beatles, Hippies and Hells Angels: Inside the Crazy World of Apple and The [Great] Contemporary Art Bubble. Ben has an MA in history and art history from Trinity College at Cambridge University. So, Ben welcome to the podcast and congratulations on the book. Ben Lewis: Thanks for having me in. Katie Wilson-Milne: Steve and I have both read it in its entirety, which is a singing endorsement. Steve Schindler: And it’s riveting. We really do recommend it. How did you become interested in this work? Ben Lewis: Well, I’ve been tracking the Salvator Mundi for quite a few years, ever since Sam Knight published the story in The New Yorker about the so-called “Bouvier Affair.” And Yves Bouvier had sold the Salvator Mundi to Dmitry Rybolovlev, this Russian oligarch, for $127.5 million. But you know, so, he discovered the day before, he bought the picture for $80 million, and I think that’s probably makes him, in sort of a dollar-per-minute terms the most successful art dealer in the history of the world. And it was an extraordinary, you know, story of subterfuge and of the blurred lines in the art market. Bouvier sold Dmitry Rybolovlev, as you probably know, in total $2 billion worth of art over...

"The Last Leonardo" with Ben Lewis

In this bonus episode, Steve analyzes the recent Second Circuit decision affirming the 2018 decision awarding $6.75 million to the artists of 5Pointz, whose works were whitewashed and torn down by the building’s owner in 2013.&nbsp; To put this important decision into a broader context, we have re-released our April 2018 episode on 5Pointz, where we discuss the district court case in which the aerosol artists asserted violations of their moral rights under the Visual Artist Rights Act, the U.S. moral rights statute. &nbsp;In that episode, Steve and Katie discuss the origin and contours of moral rights, how they fit into U.S. copyright law, the story of 5Pointz and the laws around street art and graffiti. They are joined by famous aerosol artist Jonathan Cohen (Meres One), 5Pointz event planner and artist representative Marie Cecile Flageul, and Renee Vara, the artists’ expert in the 5Pointz trial.

Moral Rights in Street Art: The 5Pointz Story - Revisited

Katie and Steve welcome back to the podcast museum director, art commentator, and art historian Max Anderson to discuss what art museums (now closed) are dealing with during the Covid-19 crisis in terms of mission, funding, audience engagement and an uncertain future.&nbsp; They discuss structural issues and practices pre-existing the pandemic that put pressure on museums’ stated missions and appeal, as well as potential shifts in focus and priority that may come out of this current moment of reorganization and prioritization. This is the first of several episodes of the Art Law Podcast discussing the impact of the pandemic and its accompanying shut downs on the art world.  Resources:   &nbsp; &nbsp;  &nbsp;

Art Museums in the Pandemic

The Art Law Podcast hosts discussions about topics at the intersection of art and law with art lawyers Steve Schindler and Katie Wilson-Milne and their distinguished guests.

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