Bridging the Gaps: A Portal for Curious Minds

Over centuries “information has shaped and been shaped by human society”, writes professor Paul Duguid at the start of the book “Information: A Historical Companion”. Duguid is one of the editors of this book that reconstructs the rise of human approaches to creating, managing, and sharing facts and knowledge. The book is organised as thirteen long form chapters and more than hundred short form entries in a list of thematic objects, tools and concepts that are critical for our understanding of information. Each long-form chapter discusses the role of information at an important point in time in the history, at a particular geographical setting. Written by an international team of experts, “Information: A Historical Companion” is a wide-ranging, deeply immersive and a large publication. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps I speak with Paul Duguid, a professor in the School of Information at the University of California, Berkeley and one of the editors of this book. 

We start our discussion by exploring the concept of “information age” and addressing the question: has every age been an information age or is this title unique to this present time. We then discuss the significance of viewing history through the lens of information and viewing information through the lens of history. We also discuss our over reliance on information in the present time and the impact of increased volume and velocity of misinformation and disinformation on society. Professor Paul Duguid then discusses few entries in the list of thematic objects, concepts and tools. This has been a fascinating discussion, particularly for those who are keen to study our obsession with an informed existence. 

Complement this podcast with the fascinating discussion with Professor Luciano Floridi on the Philosophy of Information and then listen to Professor Jürgen Renn on the Evolution of Knowledge and Rethinking Science for The Anthropocene available on Bridging the Gaps.

For more in-depth discussions with researchers and thought leaders, reach us at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/ 
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History of Information with Professor Paul Duguid

We live in an age of increasing complexity and uncertainty. We live in a time when humanity faces extremely complex challenges. Our ability, or lack thereof, to create solutions to such extremely complicated challenges may determine our long-term survival as a civilization. The question is: is our existing style of thinking adequate, or do we require a new style of thinking in order to innovate and lead into the future. In their recent book Julio Ottino and Bruce Mau make a case for “The Nexus”, a radically new way of thinking — one in which art, technology, and science converge to expand our creativity and augment our insight. In this episode or Bridging the Gaps I speak with Julio Ottino who explains “the Nexus” and guides us how to embrace the powerful idea of complementarity, where opposing extremes coexist. We discuss how blurring the lines between the three major realms of human creation — art, technology, and science — results in a significant expansion of thinking spaces and a richness of potential ideas.

Julio Ottino is Dean of Engineering and Applied Sciences, and a professor of Chemical and Biological Engineering at Northwestern University, in Illinois. He is also the founding co-director of Northwestern University's Institute on Complex Systems. He is a thought leader, author, artist, and internationally recognized researcher  in chaos theory and complex systems whose work has been featured in “Nature”, “Science”, and “Scientific American”.

We begin our discussion by looking back at the time before the divergence of disciplines and how key figures in science immensely benefited from talents and skills in a variety of fields. Then we talk about how, when, and why the disciplines diverged. We delve into the concept of "the Nexus" and discuss whole-brain thinking. The book is jam-packed with wonderful photographs and diagrams. I ask Professor Ottino to describe the process that he followed to write this book. This has been a wonderful discussion. 

Complement this discussion with “Asking Better Questions for Creative Problem Solving, Innovation and Effective Leadership with Hal Gregersen” available at: https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/02/asking-better-questions-for-creative-problem-solving-innovation-and-effective-leadership-with-hal-gregersen/

And with ““Learning How to Learn”: Techniques to Help You Learn with Dr Barbra Oakley” available at: https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/01/learning-how-to-learn-techniques-to-help-you-learn-with-dr-barbra-oakley-classic/

And the listen to “Multiple Intelligences, Future Minds and Educating The App Generation: A discussion with Dr Howard Gardner” available at: https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2015/07/multiple-intelligences-future-minds-and-educating-the-app-generation-a-discussion-with-dr-howard-gardner/

Augmented Thinking: The New Convergence of Art, Technology, and Science with Professor Julio Ottino

The rise of the platform economy puts state-like power in the hands of platform owners with little or no accountability. Over the past few decades, the chaotic and lawless early Internet evolved into a digital reality where e-commerce and digital services platform owners dictate decisions that affect millions living in different countries and jurisdictions. In his book “Cloud Empires: How Digital Platforms Are Overtaking the State and How We Can Regain Control” professor Vili Lehdonvirta explains how tech platforms got to where they are. The book outlines the history and evolution of tech platforms by telling the stories of individuals, the role they played in shaping and reshaping the Internet leading to the present day digital reality. Lehdonvirta emphasises that we can only begin to democratise digital platforms if we recognize them for what they are: institutions as powerful as the state. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor Vili Lehdonvirta; we discuss the book, the new social order established by the digital platform companies, and how the accumulated power of platforms could be challenged to hold them more accountable and to regain control. 

Vili Lehdonvirta is Professor of Economic Sociology and Digital Social Research at the Oxford Internet Institute at the University of Oxford. His research examines how digital technologies are used to reshape the organisation of economic activities in society. His research focuses on the questions such as what are the implications to workers, entrepreneurs, and states, and how can this digital economy be governed? His research draws on theories and approaches from economic sociology, political economy, industrial relations, new institutional economics, and science and technology studies.

We begin by discussing the chaotic and lawless days of the early Internet. We explore the emergence of the underlying theme to resist the undue influence of outsiders and to resist government regulations in favour of giving users more control, even in the early days of Usenet. We then discuss the emergence of Bitcoin in the context of a number of historic parallels such as the medieval economy and the Athenian peasant revolt. We explore the possibility, or perhaps the impossibility, of achieving true neutrality and privacy using BitCoin. At this point we start looking at the true nature of state-like powers accumulated by today’s cloud empires. An interesting point we touch upon is that similar to independent states and sovereign countries, are these state-like cloud empires protecting their users. We then look at the legal rights of employees working in these giant organisations. Finally we look at the two questions that emerge from the subtitle of the book “How digital platforms are overtaking the state and how we can regain control”. The first question is why it is important that we take back control, and the second question is, how should we do this. This has been an enlightening and thought provoking discussion. 

Complement this discussion with ““Working with AI: Real Stories of Human-Machine Collaboration” with Professor Thomas Davenport and Professor Steven Miller” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/10/working-with-ai-real-stories-of-human-machine-collaboration-thomas-davenport-steven-miller/
And then listen to  ““Philosophy of Technology” with Professor Peter-Paul Verbeek” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2021/01/philosophy-of-technology-with-professor-peter-paul-verbeek/

Cloud Empires: Governing State-like Digital Platforms & Regaining Control with Prof Vili Lehdonvirta

Looking for the earliest galaxies is like travelling back in time. Something that astronomers do all the time. Astronomers use huge and powerful telescopes to see not only farther and deeper into space, but also back in time. The hunt for the oldest galaxies using observational astronomy needs not only a thorough grasp of the physics and chemistry of the early cosmos, but also the human ingenuity of building large size telescopes and designing innovative instrumentation. Large and complicated telescopes, as well as supporting processes, techniques, and devices, allow astronomers to make more clear and accurate observations in their search for the first galaxies. In his new book “When Galaxies Were Born: The Quest for Cosmic Dawn” professor Richard Ellis presents a firsthand narrative of how a pioneering group of scientists used the world's greatest telescopes to unravel the history of the universe and witness cosmic dawn, when starlight first illuminated the cosmos and galaxies formed from darkness. The book also gives a narrative of a golden age of astronomy, outlining many achievements and disappointments, and discussing rivalries with competing teams. This is also an account of professor Elis’s remarkable career spanning more than forty years. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps I speak with professor Richard Ellis. We discuss amazing progres that astronomers have made in building ever larger and more powerful telescopes; we also dig deep on the fascinating research on the birth of galaxies and our quest for the cosmic dawn. 

Richard S. Ellis is professor of astrophysics at University College London and a world-renowned observational astronomer who has made numerous discoveries about the nature and evolution of the universe.

We start off discussing the human aspects of observational astronomy where teams from all over the world first compete for participating in constructing large telescopes and then compete for securing blocks of time to make observations. We review the taxonomy of large and most powerful ground based telescopes and discuss effectiveness and contribution of space telescopes towards observational astronomy. First light in the universe and the assembly of galaxies in the early universe are among the four main areas that the James Webb Space Telescope will focus on. We dig deep on these points, and what expectations researchers have from this new space telescope. We then discuss how human ingenuity has led to the development of  techniques such as adaptive mirrors and application of gravitational lensing to improve our observations. We then focus on the cutting edge research on the quest for cosmic dawn and dig deep on the physics and chemistry of the early universe. We discuss the role dark matter might have played in the formation of early galaxies. We also touch upon the origin of life in the universe, and briefly debate the question “are we alone”. This has been a fun discussion that is highly informative. 

Complement this discussion with ""Exploring the Mysteries of Our Universe’s First Seconds" with Dr Dan Hooper” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2020/09/at-the-edge-of-time-dr-dan-hooper/

And then listen to ""The End of Everything (Astrophysically Speaking)” with Dr Katie Mack” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2020/08/the-end-of-everything-astrophysically-speaking-with-dr-katie-mack/

“When Galaxies Were Born: The Quest for Cosmic Dawn” with Professor Richard Ellis

The ancient ambition of exploring the cosmos and possibly even inhabiting other planets may one day come true, as we discover more and more exoplanets and intend to develop innovative propulsion techniques suitable for interstellar travel. Projects like 100 Year Starship and Breakthrough Starshot enable us to study the challenges involved with a view to develop solutions, furthering the idea of interstellar travel. In his new book “A Traveller’s Guide to the Stars” physicist and Nasa Technologist Les Johnson takes the readers on an exciting journey through the science and innovations that could help us get to the stars.The book gives a thorough account of the next great frontier of human exploration, outlining exclusive inside look at the amazing advances in science and technology that will aid today's astronauts in setting out for the stars.

Les Johnson is a physicist, author, and NASA technologist. He leads the development of advanced, in-space spacecraft propulsion technologies at the NASA George C. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. During his career at NASA, Les served as the Manager for the Space Science Programs and Projects Office, the In-Space Propulsion Technology Project, and the Interstellar Propulsion Research Project.

We begin by reviewing the impact of discovery of exoplanets on the ambition of travelling to and inhibiting these distant alien worlds. Next we look at the precursors that we must take into consideration before building the ships and embarking on interstellar journeys. We discuss in detail the presently used propulsion technologies and evaluate their shortcomings for interstellar journeys. While discussing the future, we first discuss in detail two rocket technologies of the future: nuclear fusion and antimatter. Then we discuss in detail the innovative and promising propulsion approaches such as solar sails and laser-beamed energy. We discuss in detail how these technologies may one day enable us to embark on interstellar journeys. Les Johnson has written a number of science fiction books; I ask him to expand on his view that science fiction is an effective tool to imagine future technologies. No discussion on the topic of space exploration is complete without discussing the possibility of life out there; we discuss this as I ask Les to give us his views on the possibility of life out there and on the question “are we alone”.  This has been a fantastic discussion. 

Complement this discussion with ““The Next 500 Years: Engineering Life to Reach New Worlds” with Professor Christopher Mason” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/05/the-next-500-years-engineering-life-to-reach-new-worlds-with-professor-christopher-mason/
And then listen to  ““The End of Astronauts”, Robotic Space Exploration and Our Future on Earth and Beyond with Professor Martin Rees” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/03/the-end-of-astronauts-robotic-space-exploration-and-our-future-on-earth-and-beyond-with-professor-martin-rees/

“A Traveller’s Guide to the Stars” with Physicist, Author and Nasa Technologist Les Johnson

When considering the long-term survival and sustainability of human civilization, two developments hold significant implications. Firstly, humanity has been recklessly depleting resources, causing species extinctions, and degrading essential elements for life on Earth for centuries. Secondly, advancements in the science of discovering habitable planets outside our solar system have opened up the possibility of establishing human civilization beyond our increasingly inhospitable planetary home. In his latest book, "Worlds Without End: Exoplanets, Habitability, and the Future of Humanity," Professor Chris Impey takes readers on a thrilling journey through the frontiers of astronomy and the search for planets that can potentially support life. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor Impey about the science behind finding habitable exoplanets, the evolution of space exploration, and the prospect of humans inhabiting a planet far away from our solar system.

Chris Impey is a University Distinguished Professor of Astronomy at the University of Arizona. He has made significant contributions to the fields of observational cosmology, astrophysics, particularly in the area of exoplanet research. His expertise and passion for the subject have led to many publications and appearances in documentaries, news outlets, and popular science programmes. He has won numerous teaching awards and authored textbooks and many popular science books. 

We begin our discussion by examining the historical perspectives on exoplanets, planets beyond our solar system. We then delve into the discovery of the first exoplanet and explore the various methods that scientists have employed to detect these far-off worlds. The Kepler Space Telescope played a pivotal role in this field, and we explore how the James Webb Telescope presents new opportunities for advancing exoplanet research. The diversity of exoplanets is astounding, with variations in size, composition, and orbital characteristics. We delve into these differences and their implications. Additionally, we thoroughly examine the concept of habitability, including how scientists are studying the atmospheric characteristics of these alien worlds. We also touch on the intriguing possibility of orphan planets - large planets without a star - that may sustain habitability characteristics without a sun. We then contemplate the prospect of travelling to these distant planets and potentially establishing human settlements there. We explore the magnitude of such a journey and the challenges involved in interstellar travel. Lastly, we consider the possibility of extraterrestrial life in the universe.

Complement this discussion with “Search for Exoplanets: A Discussion with Professor Sara Seager” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2016/12/search-for-exoplanets-with-sara-seager/
And then listen to  ““The End of Astronauts”, Robotic Space Exploration and Our Future on Earth and Beyond with Professor Martin Rees” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/03/the-end-of-astronauts-robotic-space-exploration-and-our-future-on-earth-and-beyond-with-professor-martin-rees/

“Worlds Without End: Exoplanets, Habitability, and the Future of Humanity” with Prof. Chris Impey

​​Hunger is far more than the immediate and tangible experience of not being able to find or buy food. While it is true that hunger is often depicted as the physical sensation of an empty stomach—a condition that can be temporarily alleviated by food—the issue runs much deeper. Hunger is more than the absence of food; it is a manifestation of deeper, societal and  structural failings leading to individual and collective trauma. To genuinely combat hunger, we must engage with its underlying causes—economic inequality, systemic discrimination, and societal neglect—and strive to create a compassionate and just society where all people have the resources, respect, and opportunities they need to thrive. In her book "The Painful Truth about Hunger in America: Why We Must Unlearn Everything We Think We Know—and Start Again"  professor Mariana Chilton presents a bold, transformative perspective on addressing hunger and poverty in the United States. The book emphasises that hunger in the United States is underpinned by profound societal and structural failures that perpetuate poverty and ensure that millions remain trapped in cycles of scarcity. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps I speak with professor Mariana Chilton. 

Although the book focuses on the issues of hunger and poverty in the United States, the human experiences and the underlying structural and social root causes it explores are often universal. The insights and key points raised in the book resonate with similar challenges faced in other societies and regions, making its research and findings valuable for broader learning and application.

Mariana Chilton is a Professor of Health Management and Policy at Drexel University's Dornsife School of Public Health. She is the founder of the Center for Hunger-Free Communities, where she initiated impactful programs such as “Witnesses to Hunger”, aimed at amplifying women's voices in the national conversation on hunger and poverty, and the “Building Wealth and Health Network”, which focuses on fostering economic security and healing. Chilton has provided expert testimony on hunger solutions before both the US Senate and the House of Representatives.


Our discussion delves into the intricate connections between hunger and trauma, revealing the emotional and psychological toll on individuals and communities. We examine the persistent nature of poverty and its link to generational trauma and explore the complex relationship between poverty, violence, and systemic inequalities. Professor Chilton provides thoughtful explanations supported by real-world examples and personal stories, many of which are detailed in her book. We touch upon the historical contexts as well. We also discuss challenges involved in conducting research on such sensitive topics, particularly when working with vulnerable populations. The discussion covers both ethical considerations and the logistical obstacles researchers face when collecting data and sharing findings in a manner that respects and empowers participants. Professor Chilton’s insights shed light on the importance of compassionate, inclusive approaches to research and advocacy that prioritise the voices of those most affected by these issues.

Complement this discussion with ““From Pessimism to Promise: Lessons from the Global South on Designing Inclusive Tech” with Professor Payal Arora” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2024/10/from-pessimism-to-promise-lessons-from-the-global-south-on-designing-inclusive-tech-with-professor-payal-arora/

And then listen to “”A Passion for Ignorance” and for Denials and Negations with Professor Renata Salecl” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2020/10/a-passion-for-ignorance-and-for-denials-and-negations-with-professor-renata-salecl/

“The Painful Truth about Hunger in America” with Professor Mariana Chilton

Consider this thought-provoking statement: “Life is information that maintains itself.” This argument, proposed by Professor Christoph Adami in his book “The Evolution of Biological Information: How Evolution Creates Complexity, from Viruses to Brains” places information at the heart of biological systems. Adami's innovative perspective offers fresh insights into phenomena such as the evolution of drug resistance in viruses, the development of cellular communication, and the emergence of intelligence. By framing information as the unifying principle of biology, this approach provides a systematic way to explore the origin of life—both on Earth and beyond. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps I speak with Professor Christoph Adami. 

Christoph Adami is professor of microbiology and molecular genetics & physics as well as astronomy at Michigan State University. A pioneer in the application of methods from information theory to the study of evolution, he designed the Avida system that launched the use of digital life as a tool for investigating basic questions in evolutionary biology. He has received several awards, including the NASA Exceptional Achievement Medal and the Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Society for Artificial Life.

We begin with an in-depth exploration of Shannon’s information theory, focusing particularly on the concept of entropy. This foundation sets the stage for a discussion on how biological systems store and preserve information. We delve into the information content of genes and proteins, highlighting a key idea from the book: “Living organisms know some very important facts about the world they inhabit and thrive in.” 

Next, we examine the concept of genetic information and its storage within DNA molecules and genomes. This includes a detailed look at the nature of this information and the latest understanding of the data encoded within the genome. 

We then turn to the core mechanisms—or laws—of evolution: inheritance, variation, and selection, framing these processes as the measurement, processing, and transmission of information. To describe evolution through the lens of information theory, Adami incorporates the concept of Maxwell’s demon, a thought experiment that challenges the second law of thermodynamics. We discuss this thought experiment in detail and its application to understanding the evolution of biological information.

Finally, we explore the profound question of the origin of life, accompanied by an engaging discussion on viruses. Before finishing this discussion, we also touch upon the nature and challenges of multidisciplinary research. Overall, this has been an enlightening and highly informative journey into the intersection of biology and information theory. 

Complement this discussion with ““The Network of Life: A New View of Evolution” with Professor David Mindell” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2024/10/the-network-of-life-a-new-view-of-evolution-with-professor-david-mindell/
And then listen to  ““Zero to Birth: How the Human Brain Is Built” with Professor William Harris” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/10/zero-to-birth-how-the-human-brain-is-built-with-professor-william-harris/

“The Evolution of Biological Information” with Professor Christoph Adami

Astronomy tells the story of humanity's journey from viewing the sky as a flat, two-dimensional dome to understanding it as a vast, dynamic, and ever-expanding three-dimensional universe. This enduring story has been told through countless books, brought to life in words, and crafted into both prose and poetry. But imagine a book that goes beyond simply telling the tale—a book that invites you to actively engage with it, exploring the depths of the universe as unveiled by the most advanced astronomical research and discoveries of our time.

The book “Welcome to the Universe in 3D: A Visual Tour” invites you on a captivating journey through the observable universe, showcasing some of the most awe-inspiring sights in the cosmos—in stunning 3D. Featuring a dazzling collection of stereoscopic color images and with a special stereo viewer conveniently folded into the book's cover, you can experience your cosmic surroundings in a breathtaking new dimension. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Dr Neil deGrasse Tyson, one of the authors of this fascinating and truly one-of-a-kind book.

Neil deGrasse Tyson is a renowned science communicator and the first Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, where he is also a research associate in astrophysics.  

Tyson has received 27 honorary doctorates and the NASA Distinguished Public Service Medal. His legacy is further honored with asteroid “13123 Tyson” and a leaping frog species, "Indirani tysoni", named after him.

We begin by discussing the inspiration behind a book with a built-in stereoscopic viewer and the science behind creating 3D images that come alive through the brain’s intricate processing. This leads to reflections on humanity’s discovery of the universe’s three-dimensional nature, aided by concepts like parallax.  

We explore some of the book’s stunning images, showcasing the cosmos in breathtaking depth, and address challenges in science communication amidst misinformation. The role of policymakers in promoting science as a societal benefit and the future of space exploration are also key topics.  

This has been a captivating and enlightening conversation, filled with moments of Neil deGrasse Tyson’s signature laughter. We conclude with his inspiring words: “Very happy to help you and others bridge whatever gaps need bridged.”

Complement this discussion with ““The Joy of Science” with Professor Jim Al-Khalili” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/05/the-joy-of-science-with-professor-jim-al-khalili/
And then listen to  ““A Traveller’s Guide to the Stars” with Physicist, Author and Nasa Technologist Les Johnson” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2023/03/a-travellers-guide-to-the-stars-with-physicist-author-and-nasa-technologist-les-johnson/


“Welcome to the Universe in 3D: A Visual Tour” with Neil deGrasse Tyson

Sentience is the feeling aspect of consciousness, encompassing the capacity to experience sensations such as pain, pleasure, and emotions. It is the foundation of subjective experience, distinguishing beings that can feel from those that merely process information or react reflexively. Sentience is a crucial component of consciousness. A key question in studying sentience is how it emerges—whether it arises from complex neural processes, a particular form of computation, or something more fundamental. In his book “From Sensing to Sentience: How Feeling Emerges from the Brain”, Professor Todd Feinberg introduces “Neurobiological Emergentism (NBE)”, a theory explaining how sentience naturally arises as an emergent property of brain functions. Emergent properties are features of a system that do not exist in its individual parts but arise through their interactions. Integrating biological, neurobiological, evolutionary, and philosophical perspectives, Feinberg argues that sentience emerges as a “system-level property” of complex neural interactions. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor Todd Feinbergy. 

Dr. Todd Feinberg is a board certified neurologist and psychiatrist and Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Icahn School Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

We begin by exploring the basic sensory abilities of single-celled organisms, examining how they react to their environment and survive. We then trace the evolution of multicellular organisms, discussing that when they developed into more complex systems, there is a broader substrate for sensing.   A key focus is how sensory abilities laid the foundation for the evolution of advanced neurobiological systems, ultimately leading to sentience. We discuss in detail how simple sensory functions in early life forms gradually evolved into the rich experiences of animals with complex nervous systems.  

A central idea in the book is that “sentience emerges” as a property of complex neural systems. This perspective helps bridge the gap between neuroscience and philosophy, providing a natural explanation for how subjective experiences arise from the brain. We explore this argument in depth.  Overall, this discussion provides valuable insights into the origins of sentience and its role in the evolution of consciousness.

Complement this discussion with ““Sentience: The Invention of Consciousness” with Professor Nicholas Humphrey” with Professor Payal Arora” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2023/07/sentience-the-invention-of-consciousness-with-professor-nicholas-humphrey/

And then listen to “”The Network of Life: A New View of Evolution” with Professor David Mindell” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2024/10/the-network-of-life-a-new-view-of-evolution-with-professor-david-mindell/


“From Sensing to Sentience: How Feeling Emerges from the Brain” with Professor Todd Feinberg

Humans are no longer the only entities capable of generating language and ideas with fluency. But this advancement raises a profound question: are artificial intelligence systems truly conscious, or are they simply performing an elaborate imitation of human thought? And if, in the future, claims of AI consciousness become more credible, how will that shift our understanding of these technologies? Will we continue to see them as tools, or begin to recognize them as something closer to persons? In his book “The Line: AI and the Future of Personhood”, Professor James Boyle confronts these complex issues. He explores how questions that once belonged to the realm of science fiction have now become urgent and real. He examines how this technological shift might redefine our understanding of personhood and challenge the boundary—"the line"—that separates humans from everything else, as well as persons with legal rights from inanimate objects. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor James Boyle to explore these timely, thought provoking and transformative questions.

James Boyle is a professor of Law at Duke Law School, founder of the Center for the Study of the Public Domain, and former Chair of Creative Commons. He is the winner of the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Pioneer Award for his work on digital civil liberties.


We begin by talking about the idea of personhood—what it means, how we define it, and what separates beings that have personhood from those that don’t. I ask whether it’s simply consciousness that makes the difference. We then explore why empathy is an important part of thinking about personhood.

Next, we discuss the challenge of using consciousness as a dividing line. If consciousness is what separates those with personhood from those without, how can we use such a complex and unclear concept to draw that line?

In his book, The Line: AI and the Future of Personhood, James Boyle uses many examples from science fiction to explore these tough questions. I found this approach fascinating, and I asked him why he chose science fiction as a way to talk about such deep and complicated ideas.

We also talk about similar issues that came up when thinking about the rights of corporations and other non-living things. Then we move on to what we can learn from how rights have been developed for non-human animals. Finally, we touch on recent court cases involving decisions made by artificial intelligence.

Overall, this was a very engaging and insightful conversation.

Complement this discussion with ““Evolutionary Intelligence: How Technology Will Make Us Smarter” with Professor W. Russell Neuman” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2024/03/evolutionary-intelligence-how-technology-will-make-us-smarter-with-professor-w-russell-neuman/
And then listen to  ““Reclaiming Human Intelligence and “How to Stay Smart in a Smart World” with Prof. Gerd Gigerenzer” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2023/04/reclaiming-human-intelligence-and-how-to-stay-smart-in-a-smart-world-with-prof-gerd-gigerenzer/


“The Line: AI and the Future of Personhood” with Professor James Boyle

Over a span of five million years, humankind rose from modest origins to become the planet’s most dominant species. Along the way, people changed a lot in how they looked, spoke, and lived. But how did all this happen? The variety we see in humans today is the result of evolution—which began shaping the Homo group about 2.5 million years ago—and migration, as humans moved into new places. In his book “The Five-Million-Year Odyssey: The Human Journey from Ape to Agriculture” Professor Peter Bellwood brings together research from archaeology, biology, anthropology, and language studies to tell the story of human history. He takes us from the earliest hominins in Africa, through the spread of humans across the continents, to the start of farming and rapid population growth. He introduces early human relatives like the australopithecines, Homo erectus, and Neanderthals, then focuses on the rise of Homo sapiens about 300,000 years ago and their journey into Eurasia, Australia, and the Americas. Bellwood also looks at how farming, which began around 10,000 years ago, helped people move to new lands and share their languages and cultures. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I talk with Professor Peter Bellwood.

Peter Bellwood is professor emeritus at the Australian National University. He specialises in the human population prehistory from archaeological, linguistic and biological perspectives. His many books include “First Migrants: Ancient Migration in Global Perspective” and “First Farmers: The Origins of Agricultural Societies. He is the winner of the 2021 International Cosmos Prize.


We begin by discussing how studying languages uncovers our past and tells the story of humans. Language families act like maps, pointing to early journeys of people. Shared words that appear in many tongues offer strong clues about those first moves. Next we look at what ancient DNA and proteins can say about our past. I first ask about the hard job of finding and testing old genetic samples. After that we turn to classic archaeology, and I ask Peter about digging at historic sites. We dive into how a creature unlike any other animal arose, and we touch upon the blank spots that still puzzle us. The book’s idea of “man the tool maker” comes up: does making tools really set us apart? We talk about that in depth.

We then explore the rise and later disappearance of Neanderthals and other early human groups. Our focus shifts to the cultural growth of Homo sapiens, tracing the path from hunting and gathering to more organised farming. We look closely at the first waves of people who moved in search of richer soil and safer homes. The Fertile Crescent in the Middle East gets special attention, as we track the birth of stable villages and maybe the first cities. We also discuss the boats, paths, and simple gear that helped early travellers to travel long distances. 

Shifting dates and fresh finds force us to keep revising the human timeline. We talk about lively cultures that either vanished overnight or slowly faded away. From start to end, the talk has been rich, clear, and full of insights. 

Complement this discussion with “How Cooking Made Us Human with Professor Richard Wrangham” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2019/07/how-cooking-made-us-human-with-professor-richard-wrangham/
And then listen to  ““From Sensing to Sentience: How Feeling Emerges from the Brain” with Professor Todd Feinberg” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2025/02/from-sensing-to-sentience-how-feeling-emerges-from-the-brain-with-professor-todd-feinberg/


“The Human Journey From Ape to Agriculture” with Professor Peter Bellwood

In a world where scientific work often feels distant and difficult to grasp, the Nobel Prize makes science visible and understandable in a unique way. It is the most recognized and prestigious award for individual scientific achievement, giving a human face to great discoveries and turning them into powerful stories. The winners could be global figures like Albert Einstein or little-known doctors working in remote towns. Some prizes went to breakthroughs later proven wrong, and many names have faded from memory. Yet, as Massimiano Bucchi shows, the Nobel Prize shaped how people saw science throughout the twentieth century—an image that continues to influence us in surprising ways today.

In his book Geniuses, Heroes, and Saints: The Nobel Prize and the Public Image of Science, Professor Bucchi tells the story of how the Nobel Prize transformed science into something more than a technical field. It became an epic human pursuit, shaped by history and shared with the public. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor Massimaino Bucchi. 
Professor Massimiano Bucchi is a leading scholar in the field of science communication and Professor of Science and Technology in Society at the University of Trento. He is the former editor of Public Understanding of Science and the author of books, including Newton's Chicken and the co-edited Handbook of Public Communication of Science and Technology. 
We began the conversation with the three main narratives outlined in the book that define the Nobel Prize. First, the scientist as genius—a creative visionary, a brilliant intellect, often portrayed as a solitary figure with a romantic aura. Second, the scientist as national hero—a symbol of international rivalry played out in a peaceful, rational contest. Third, the scientist as saint—a moral exemplar celebrated for humility, modesty, and complete devotion to science.
From there, we traced the history of the Nobel, its origins, and its early role in European society. We examined the first laureates, notable controversies, and famous recipients—including the story of Einstein’s long-delayed award and the “interesting” aspects of the work that finally earned him the prize.
We also explored the Nobel’s impact on public perceptions of science, the ceremonial “royal touch” that surrounds it, and how the prize might evolve in the twenty-first century. We then discuss science communication more broadly.
Overall, it was a rich and fascinating discussion.

Complement this discussion with ““Sharing Our Science: How to Write and Speak STEM” with Professor Brandon Brown” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2024/02/sharing-our-science-how-to-write-and-speak-stem-with-professor-brandon-brown/

And then listen to “On Public Communication of Science and Technology with Professor Bruce Lewenstein” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2022/02/on-public-communication-of-science-and-technology-with-professor-bruce-lewenstein/



“The Nobel Prize and the Public Image of Science” with Professor Massimiano Bucchi

At the heart of the intellectual and cultural awakening that swept across the globe during the first millennium BCE—an era that witnessed the emergence of philosophy, mathematics, science, and nearly all of the world’s major religions—lies a transformative conviction: the human mind is capable of comprehending the universe. Equally profound is the parallel insight that the mind is capable of reflecting upon and understanding itself.

In her book “The Two Greatest Ideas: How Our Grasp of the Universe and Our Minds Changed Everything” Professor Linda Zagzebski offers a compelling examination of these two foundational ideas in human history. She traces how their dynamic interplay has generated enduring tensions, leaving humanity divided in its understanding of the relationship between consciousness and the cosmos. The book argues that these tensions have long shaped debates over how society should be organized—whether in harmony with the natural order or in pursuit of individual autonomy—and they continue to underlie conflicts on issues such as abortion, the environment, free speech, and identity. The book further envisions the rise of a third transformative idea: that human minds can genuinely understand one another, opening the possibility of grasping reality in its entirety. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor Linda Zagzebski. 

Linda Zagzebski is Professor Emerita and the Kingfisher College Chair of the Philosophy of Religion and Ethics Emerita at the University of Oklahoma.

We begin our discussion by examining the two central ideas highlighted in Zagzebski’s book: first, that the human mind can grasp the universe, and second, that it can grasp itself. While these notions feel ever-present in contemporary thought, it is easy to forget that they emerged gradually in human history. We consider their significance and origins, tracing early expressions of these ideas in mathematics, astronomy, art, and philosophy. This includes reflections on ancient conceptions of a unified reality governed by a single principle, exemplified in Pythagorean thought, which envisioned the cosmos as bound together by number—a view that continues to echo in Western intellectual traditions. We discuss the discovery of subjectivity and its impact on art and science. 

Our conversation then turns to Zagzebski’s proposal of a possible third great idea: that the human mind can grasp another mind. From there, we reflect on enduring questions: Can we ever fully understand the nature of reality? What drives the uniquely human impulse to seek knowledge of the whole? Finally, we delve into the book’s exploration of the concept of self and consider why our curiosity about reality sets us apart from other animals.Overall, this has been an illuminating and thought-provoking discussion.

Complement this discussion with “Robots, Artificial Life and Technology Imagined by the Ancients” with Adrienne Mayor available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2018/12/adrienne-mayor-bridging-the-gaps/And then listen to  “The Human Journey From Ape to Agriculture” with Professor Peter Bellwood available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2025/06/the-human-journey-from-ape-to-agriculture-with-professor-peter-bellwood/


“How Our Grasp of the Universe and Our Minds Changed Everything” with Professor Linda Zagzebski

As artificial intelligence takes on a growing role in decisions about education, jobs, housing, loans, healthcare, and criminal justice, concerns about fairness have become urgent. Because AI systems are trained on data that reflect historical inequalities, they often reproduce or even amplify those disparities. In his book “AI Fairness: Designing Equal Opportunity Algorithms” Professor Derek Leben draws on classic philosophical theories of justice—especially John Rawls’s work—to propose a framework for evaluating the fairness of AI systems. This framework offers a way to think systematically about algorithmic justice: how automated decisions can align with ethical principles of equality and fairness. The book examines the trade-offs among competing fairness metrics and shows that it is often impossible to satisfy them all at once. As a result, organizations must decide which definitions of fairness to prioritize, and regulators must determine how existing laws should apply to AI. In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Derek Leben. 

Derek Leben is Professor of Business Ethics at the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon University. As founder of the consulting group Ethical Algorithms, he has worked with governments and companies to develop policies on fairness and benefit for AI and autonomous systems.

I begin our discussion by asking Derek what “AI” means in the context of his work and how fairness fits into that picture. From there, we explore why fairness matters as AI systems increasingly influence critical decisions about employment, education, housing, loans, healthcare, and criminal justice.

We discuss how historical inequalities in training data lead to biased outcomes, giving listeners a deeper understanding of the problem. While some view AI fairness as a purely technical issue that engineers can fix, the book argues that it is also a moral and political challenge—one that requires insights from philosophy and ethics. We then examine the difficulty of balancing multiple fairness metrics, which often cannot all be satisfied simultaneously, and discuss how organizations might prioritize among them. Derek explains his theory of algorithmic justice, inspired by John Rawls’s philosophy, and we unpack its key ideas.

Later, we touch on questions of urgency versus long-term reform, exploring the idea of longtermism, and discuss the tension between fairness and accuracy. Finally, we consider how businesses can balance commercial goals with their broader social responsibilities.

Overall, it is an informative and thought-provoking conversation about how we can make AI systems more just.

Complement this discussion with ““The Line: AI and the Future of Personhood” with Professor James Boyle” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2025/04/the-line-ai-and-the-future-of-personhood-with-professor-james-boyle/

And then listen to “Reclaiming Human Intelligence and “How to Stay Smart in a Smart World” with Prof. Gerd Gigerenzer” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2023/04/reclaiming-human-intelligence-and-how-to-stay-smart-in-a-smart-world-with-prof-gerd-gigerenzer/


“AI Fairness: Designing Equal Opportunity Algorithms” with Professor Derek Leben

Our ability to live for many decades is often viewed as a modern luxury made possible by clean water, improved living conditions, and advances in medicine. Yet, human longevity is actually part of our deep evolutionary history. The long-standing belief that life in the past was “nasty, brutish, and short” is a widespread misconception—one rooted in misleading averages and often repeated in textbooks and popular media.

In his book “Seven Decades: How We Evolved to Live Longer”, anthropologist Professor Michael Gurven challenges this myth. Drawing on extensive fieldwork, he presents compelling evidence that the capacity for long life first emerged among our hunting and gathering ancestors and argues that the human body is fundamentally designed to function for roughly seven decades. Combining vivid storytelling with rigorous science, Gurven shares insights from years of research among Indigenous societies whose diets and traditional ways of living more closely resemble how humans lived before industrialization. These communities, he shows, experience far lower rates of chronic diseases of aging—such as heart disease, dementia, and diabetes—than populations in industrialized nations.

In this episode of Bridging the Gaps, I speak with Professor Michael Gurven, Distinguished Professor of Anthropology at the University of California, Santa Barbara. For more than twenty years, he has worked closely with Indigenous groups in South America to better understand how traditional lifestyles can shed light on the evolution of human behavior, health, and psychology. His research uses an evolutionary framework to help explain modern health challenges and the origins of chronic diseases.

Our conversation offers a detailed exploration of the book and the science behind it. We begin by examining the myth that ancient people rarely reached old age, discussing how misleading averages have shaped this false narrative and why it is important to correct it. We then talk about a central idea in the book: that each stage of human life has an evolutionary purpose, and our bodies and minds have been shaped accordingly.

Another major theme is the evolutionary significance of post-reproductive life. While some biologists have argued that life after reproduction has no adaptive function, Gurven’s work shows that midlife and elderhood evolved for meaningful reasons and contribute to group survival.

At this point, the discussion turns to his fieldwork—what it is like to work with Indigenous communities, the unique challenges of this research, and how these challenges are addressed in study design and implementation. We then explore key findings from his work, including results that challenge assumptions in modern medicine. Gurven explains what these insights can teach us about improving healthcare and rethinking aging in contemporary societies.

Finally, we discuss the book’s broader message: that by understanding our evolutionary past, we can gain powerful new perspectives on aging, health, and what it means to live a long, meaningful, and productive life.

This conversation is wide-ranging, thorough, and deeply informative.

Complement this discussion with ““The Human Journey From Ape to Agriculture” with Professor Peter Bellwood” available at:  
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2025/06/the-human-journey-from-ape-to-agriculture-with-professor-peter-bellwood/

And then listen to “The Evolution of Knowledge and Rethinking Science for The Anthropocene with Professor Jürgen Renn” available at: 
https://www.bridgingthegaps.ie/2020/06/the-evolution-of-knowledge-and-rethinking-science-for-the-anthropocene-with-professor-jurgen-renn/


“Seven Decades: How We Evolved to Live Longer” with Professor Michael Gurven

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