On this podcast Debbie Millman talks to Rochelle Udell about her very creative professional life. "The strength of creative people is to be the outside observer of ordinary things. That's the strength of the creative person, so you've gotta stay outside a little bit."

Design Matters with Debbie Millman: 2009-2017

Design Matters with Debbie Millman: Rochelle Udell

Design Matters by Debbie Millman features interviews with designers, artists and cultural leaders, including Lawrence Weiner, Barbara Kruger, Malcolm Gladwell, Eric Kandel, Stefan Sagmeister, John Maeda, Jonathan Hoefler and Tobias Frere-Jones, Michael Arad, Milton Glaser, Massimo Vignelli, Paula Scher, Steven Heller, Jonah Lehrer, among others.

In 2011, Design Matters received the People’s Design Award from the prestigious Cooper-Hewitt National Design Awards.

Subscribe to Design Matters for free on iTunes, where new episodes are uploaded weekly: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/design-matters-debbie-millman/id328074695

@the-observatory-1: Michael Bierut and Jessica Helfand on design, current events, and current enthusiasms.

@designmatters with Debbie Millman: thought-provoking conversations with industry-leading graphic designers, change agents, artists, writers, and educators. 