In this episode, Adam Saltsman interviews indie game developer Davey Wreden, who is best known for his work on The Stanley Parable and The Beginner's Guide. They discuss why he worked as a bartender while making The Stanley Parable, how they fit the "gnawing void" into the game, and why he is looking forward to getting old.

Games Discussed: The Stanley Parable, Dear Esther, English Country Tune

Designer Notes 12: Davey Wreden

Idle Thumbs is an independent podcast network whose podcasts span comedy, pop culture and entertainment, video games, and TV.