In this episode, Soren interviews Jamie Cheng, founder of Klei Entertainment which is known for the Shank series, Mark of the Ninja, Don't Starve, and Invisible, Inc. They discuss paying back the Canadian government, why Mark of the Ninja's AI needs to be dumb, why Don't Starve has no extrinsic rewards, and how free-to-play games are his white whale.

Games Discussed: The Legend of Zelda, Aerobiz, SD Gundam, Dawn of War, Eets, The Outfit, Sugar Rush, Shank 1 & 2, Mark of the Ninja, Don't Starve, Invisible, Inc.

Designer Notes 13: Jamie Cheng

Idle Thumbs is an independent podcast network whose podcasts span comedy, pop culture and entertainment, video games, and TV.