a million times yes. this is an excellent episode.

Thank you, Em, for sharing your important story about involvement with The Way. You are a brave woman. I published a memoir called Undertow about my 17 years in The Way International, 1970 - 1987. Wierwille trained me himself to be a leader and biblical researcher. You might find my story helpful.

Em Thomas was born and raised in the dogmatic Christian cult The Way International. The daughter of a Way Corps graduate and WOW ambassador, Em attended a fellowship in her home three nights per week, monthly branch meetings with other leadership families, and prolonged stays semi-annually at TWI headquarters. Em’s family was labeled “Mark and Avoid” (excommunicated) in 1998, after which they attended fellowship within a splinter group until 2000 when Em was 15 years old.



Em has two main goals for sharing her story: to connect with other survivors of cultic abuse, especially second or third-generation survivors of The Way International, and to bring attention to this once well-known organization that is still operating and doing harm to its members today. She hopes that by telling her truth, she can bring hope to folks who are still finding their way out.


In this revealing conversation, Em shares publicly for the very first time her story of abuse, homophobia, and coercive control as a member of The Way International. She explains to Rachel how she struggled with her identity and sexuality growing up in the very unsafe, and predatory environment of the church and how that experience primed her for abusive relationships and self-harm as a teenager. Together Rachel and Em analyze the harmful dogma of the church, its fraudulent and plagiarized teachings, and the abusive culture of control, secrecy, and excommunication.



Before You Go: Rachel addresses the importance of fortifying bodily autonomy in young children and explains how high-control organizations often intentionally work to erase the natural boundaries of self-determination and physical sovereignty to assert total control over their followers and weaken resistance to abuse.



Em can be found on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/markandavoid/

You can contact her via email at: iammarkandavoid@gmail.com


All of Rachel's free informational PDF documents are available here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/pdf.html

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

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Mark & Avoid w/ Em Thomas

Jeff Guinn is the author of the new book Waco: David Koresh, the Branch Davidians, and a Legacy of Rage.  He has written several other best-selling books including; The Life & Times of Charles Manson, and War on the Border. Jeff was the co-executive producer alongside Leonardo DiCaprio on the TV docuseries "Terror in the Jungle," which is based on his book, The Road to Jonestown. He currently resides in Fort Worth, Texas, where he is a member of the Texas Literary Hall of Fame and a two-time winner of the Texas Book Award.



In this fascinating conversation, Jeff points out the common personality traits among the cult leaders he's studied in depth in his work, including Charles Manson, David Koresh, and Jim Jones. Throughout the discussion, Rachel confirms Jeff's understanding by relating what she's learned from her clients who have survived cultic experiences.



Before You Go: Rachel explains why governmental organizations are often inept when dealing with cults and can often be an impediment to justice because of their ignorance and arrogance.



Jeff's new book Waco: David Koresh, the Branch Davidians, and a Legacy of Rage is available here:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Waco/Jeff-Guinn/9781982186104



IndoctriNation Podcast Discussion Group:
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All of Rachel's free informational PDF documents are available here:
www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/pdf.html

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

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You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes

Diagnosing Demagogues w/Jeff Guinn

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive bonus episode. You can hear the full episode at:
www.patreon.com/indoctrination



In this solo bonus episode, Rachel shares her insights on the "Love Has Won" cult, led by Amy Carlson who is referred to within the group as "Mother God". Rachel points out the commonalities that Amy's manipulative leadership shares with other cult leaders.



Thanks to all of our supporters for making this episode possible!!

BONUS EPISODE PREVIEW: On "Love Has Won"

Michael Laurie is an actor, a small group facilitator, and a parent. He talks with Paul about his road to recovery and shares his unusual story of becoming a foster parent, with all the love and pain that entails.&nbsp; More about Michael Laurie:<a href="http://www.MichaelLaurie.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.MichaelLaurie.com</a>IG @MichaelLaurieus WAYS TO HELP THE MIHH PODCASTSubscribe via&nbsp;iTunes and leave a review.&nbsp;It costs nothing.&nbsp;<a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2</a> Spread the word via social media.&nbsp;&nbsp;It costs nothing.Our website is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.mentalpod.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mentalpod.com</a>&nbsp;our FB is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.facebook.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.Facebook.com/mentalpod</a>&nbsp;and our&nbsp;<a href="http://www.twitter.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href="http://www.instagram.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>&nbsp;are both @Mentalpod&nbsp; Become a much-needed Patreon monthly-donor&nbsp;(with occasional rewards)&nbsp;for as little as $1/month&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href="http://www.patreon.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.Patreon.com/mentalpod</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;Become a one-time or monthly donor via PayPal at <a href="https://mentalpod.com/donate" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mentalpod.com/donate</a>You can also donate via <a href="https://www.zellepay.com/get-started" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Zelle</a>&nbsp;(make payment to mentalpod@gmail.com)&nbsp;To donate via Venmo make payment to @Mentalpod&nbsp; Try Our Sponsor’s Products/Services See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.

#692 Foster Parenting - Michael Laurie

Rachel Holdt and Elizabeth Humble are sisters who were raised in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church they’ve now identified as a Cult, Cornerstone Baptist Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. In 1998, Rachel was the whistleblower instrumental in the eventual arrest and criminal conviction of Charles Dean Miller, the son of a pastor who would become known to be a decades-long serial pedophile. After law enforcement investigations were corroborated by multiple generations and dozens of victims, his sexual abuse of underage girls was discovered. Liz and Rachel’s forthcoming memoir tentatively titled “The King James Virgin and Other Myths of the IFB” tells this story.


Rachel currently resides in Southern California, where she works as an educator in the field of biomechanics through the modalities of dance and pilates.  Her extraordinary experiences growing up in an oppressively restrictive environment that harshly policed the female body, inform her teaching philosophy through a lens of empathy and inclusion of all bodies.


Elizabeth currently lives in Oklahoma near her three daughters and two granddaughters, where she works as a barber, seamstress, and food truck owner. She also sits on the board of the Stillwater Downtown Association. Elizabeth attended Nazarene Bible College and later obtained a business management degree following her barber schooling at New Mexico Junior College.



In this first half of a two-part conversation, Rachel and Elizabeth provide background on their childhood as members of an IFB-based cult, offering insights on the effects of restrictive environments, psychological and sexual abuse, and the lasting impacts these abuses had on their adult lives.



Before You Go: Rachel points out how rare it is for children raised in cults to maintain healthy relationships with their family members.



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All of Rachel's free informational PDF documents are available here:
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To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

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You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes

The King James Virgins w/Rachel Holdt & Elizabeth Humble

Erin Williams is an author, illustrator, and healthcare researcher who joins Paul to discuss chronic pain and how her own struggles with it have served her art.&nbsp;Look for her new book What's Wrong?: Personal Histories of Chronic Pain and Bad Medicine&nbsp;More about Erin:website:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.erinrwilliams.com/home" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.erinrwilliams.com/home</a>Instagram:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.instagram.com/erin_r_williams/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.instagram.com/erin_r_williams/</a> WAYS TO HELP THE MIHH PODCASTSubscribe via&nbsp;iTunes and leave a review.&nbsp;It costs nothing.&nbsp;<a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2</a> Spread the word via social media.&nbsp;&nbsp;It costs nothing.Our website is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.mentalpod.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mentalpod.com</a>&nbsp;our FB is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.facebook.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.Facebook.com/mentalpod</a>&nbsp;and our&nbsp;<a href="http://www.twitter.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href="http://www.instagram.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>&nbsp;are both @Mentalpod&nbsp; Become a much-needed Patreon monthly-donor&nbsp;(with occasional rewards)&nbsp;for as little as $1/month&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href="http://www.patreon.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.Patreon.com/mentalpod</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;Become a one-time or monthly donor via PayPal at <a href="https://mentalpod.com/donate" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mentalpod.com/donate</a>You can also donate via <a href="https://www.zellepay.com/get-started" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Zelle</a>&nbsp;(make payment to mentalpod@gmail.com)&nbsp;To donate via Venmo make payment to @Mentalpod&nbsp; Try Our Sponsor’s Products/Services See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.

#693 Chronic Pain - Erin Williams

Returning guests, Rachel Holdt and Elizabeth Humble are sisters who were raised in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church they’ve now identified as a Cult, Cornerstone Baptist Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. In 1998, Rachel was the whistleblower instrumental in the eventual arrest and criminal conviction of Charles Dean Miller, the son of a pastor who would become known to be a decades-long serial pedophile. After multiple generations and dozens of victims corroborated law enforcement investigations, his sexual abuse of underage girls was discovered. Liz and Rachel’s forthcoming memoir tentatively titled “The King James Virgin and Other Myths of the IFB” tells this story.

Rachel and Liz are returning to the show to continue telling the story they began last week and offer further insights into their harrowing experiences in the hopes that they may help listeners who may have been through similar traumas. So if you have not already, please go back and listen to last week’s episode where they introduce their story.


Before You Go: Rachel explains the inherent danger of religious ideologies that claim women's bodies are responsible for men's actions.



IndoctriNation Podcast Discussion Group:
www.facebook.com/groups/2359873534281759/

All of Rachel's free informational PDF documents are available here:
www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/pdf.html

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

Connect with us on Social Media:

Twitter:
twitter.com/_indoctrination

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You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes

The King James Virgins Pt. 2 w/Rachel Holdt & Elizabeth Humble

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive bonus episode. You can hear the full episode at:
www.patreon.com/indoctrination



In this bonus solo episode, Rachel delves into the harrowing intersection of crime and belief, discussing the chilling case of 'God's Misfits.' She examines the tragic murder of two women by a group claiming divine justification for their actions. Rachel goes on to explore the psychology behind using spirituality to rationalize crime, the impact of cultic groups on family dynamics, and the haunting notion of life as a "simulation".

BONUS EPISODE PREVIEW: Cult Crimes-The Tragedy Of God's Misfits

Marcy Langlois was born with a physical deformity, which required 23 surgical procedures before the age of 18, and was involved in a devastating, life-changing accident at the age of 17. She shares her story and opens up about the ways in which she has been able to heal and to focus on life’s infinite possibility. Look for her podcast Living Beyond Limits. This episode is sponsored by Paul Kalanithi’s bestselling memoir When Breath Becomes Air, available wherever books are sold.&nbsp;For more go to www.prh.com/BREATH More about Marcy:&nbsp;<a href="http://www.MarcyLanlois.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.MarcyLanlois.com</a> WAYS TO HELP THE MIHH PODCASTSubscribe via&nbsp;iTunes and leave a review.&nbsp;It costs nothing.&nbsp;<a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2</a> Spread the word via social media.&nbsp;&nbsp;It costs nothing.Our website is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.mentalpod.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mentalpod.com</a>&nbsp;our FB is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.facebook.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.Facebook.com/mentalpod</a>&nbsp;and our&nbsp;<a href="http://www.twitter.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href="http://www.instagram.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>&nbsp;are both @Mentalpod&nbsp; Become a much-needed Patreon monthly-donor&nbsp;(with occasional rewards)&nbsp;for as little as $1/month&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href="http://www.patreon.com/mentalpod" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">www.Patreon.com/mentalpod</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;Become a one-time or monthly donor via PayPal at <a href="https://mentalpod.com/donate" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mentalpod.com/donate</a>You can also donate via <a href="https://www.zellepay.com/get-started" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Zelle</a>&nbsp;(make payment to mentalpod@gmail.com)&nbsp;To donate via Venmo make payment to @Mentalpod&nbsp; Try Our Sponsor’s Products/Services See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.

#694 Accident & Deformity Trauma - Marcy Langlois

Welcome to IndoctriNation: A weekly podcast covering cults, manipulators, and protecting yourself from systems of control.

Mark & Avoid w/ Em Thomas

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