Creating and maintaining an inclusive environment that makes anyone feel welcome requires conscious and consistent effort. Whether it’s presentation, operation, or curation—incorporating your team’s voices in a healthy and organic manner as a business practice requires thinking outside the box.

In this episode of the Rosenfeld Review, you’ll hear from Danielle Barnes, CEO of Women Talk Design, as she and Lou discuss the fundamentals of designing meetings and conference presentations that are more inclusive.

Key points Danielle and Lou address include:

• Remolding non-inclusive systems to which women and non-binary folks are forced to adapt;
• Assigning rotating facilitator roles, and how those roles can promote inclusivity;
• How truly “listening” to those who are speaking can give facilitators the insights they need to curate a fantastic meeting;
• Raising awareness for the consequences of being talked over, and how to drive safety and accessibility in meetings for team members; and
• Tips to improve your natural stage presence when giving a talk.

You’ll also hear insights in how to create more inclusive environments by empowering those whose voices are not heard—and how safe spaces, when done right, help make this happen.

Women Talk Design with Danielle Barnes

Jenae Cohn is executive director at the Center for Teaching and Learning at UC Berkeley and, along with Michael Greer, author of the new book Design for Learning: User Experience in Online Teaching and Learning. Jenae and Michael’s book helps designers create compelling educational content. Think of it as required reading for anyone designing an online course, webinar, training, or workshop. 
Designing a platform intended to educate goes beyond traditional UX design. 

Jenae’s book does the following:
• Looks at the science behind learning and articulates how to help someone be a learner
• Helps designers understand the complex array of needs that learners have and create more purposeful learning experiences 

Learning is motivated by social interactions and emotions. In fact, the learning process is typically social, and most are motivated knowing that they’re not learning in isolation but in or for community. Designers should capitalize on these motivations. 

Tips for making online learning more social:
• Take “temperature” checks throughout the course – for example, a poll or quiz 
• Allow comments on shared artifacts and shared annotation
• Prompt discussions and assign roles if needed 
• Remember that a webinar will not necessarily create a social experience

As designers get started on creating online instructional material, Jenae reminds them to be kind to themselves. After all, designing for learners is an iterative learning process. Also, it’s critical to create checkpoints and opportunities along the way to garner feedback. With the aid of Jenae and Michael’s book, we can depart from the days of dull online courses and make them truly vibrant spaces of growth.

What you’ll learn from this episode
• Why typical online learning platforms are so dull and what can be done differently to make them more engaging and compelling
• How instructional designers and UX designers can learn from one another
• How designers can make online learning more social 
• How designers can know if they’re meeting their goals

Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:21] Introduction of Jenae Cohn
[0:01:41] Design for Learning – Why we need a UX book for learning/teaching products
[0:05:17] Why UX designers may be surprised by what they didn’t know about designing with learning in mind
[0:08:58] What instructional designers can learn from UX designers
[0:12:14] Hybrid environments in learning products 
[0:15:07] DesignOps Summit – Oct 2-6, 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designopssummit2023/
[0:16:13] Learning is social – how to help online learners stay engaged 
[0:24:58] How a designer can determine if their learners have had a good outcome
[0:30:40] Advice for designers moving into the learning design space
[0:33:29] Jenae’s gift to listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design for Learning: User Experience in Online Teaching and Learning by Jenae Cohen and Michael Greer https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/design-for-learning/
The UX of Educational Technology Community https://www.uxedtech.com

Jenae Cohn on Designing for Learning

Tough conversations can feel like real-life horror stories—but they don’t have to. In We Need to Talk: A Survival Guide for Tough Conversations, Joshua Graves offers a practical, psychologically grounded toolkit for navigating conflict with clarity and courage. Drawing on insights from neuroscience, psychology, and his own lived experience, Graves explains why our brains react so strongly to tension and conflict—and what we can do about it. 

Lou and Joshua discuss workplace power dynamics, emotional triggers, and avoidance patterns, showing how even a moment of pause can shift the outcome. Joshua’s advice? Slow down. Breathe. Ask questions that begin with what or how instead of why. And remember, you're allowed to step away and come back—conflict doesn't need to be resolved in the heat of the moment. 

Whether you're facing pay disputes, boundary violations, or breakdowns in trust, Joshua’s goal isn’t to script your response but to equip you with flexible, self-aware tools you can adapt to your own voice.

We Need to Talk with Joshua Graves

Intercom co-founder Des Traynor chats with Clearleft CEO and design thought leader Andy Budd. Andy explains why young startups tend to prioritize development over design, the role designers will play in the new world of voice and chat-based UIs, and much more.

Andy Budd, CEO At Clearleft

Lou Rosenfeld talks with a LOT of brilliant, interesting changemakers in the UX world and beyond. Subscribe to the Rosenfeld Media podcast for a bird's eye view into what shifts UX faces, and how individuals and teams can respond in ways that drive success.

We Need to Talk with Joshua Graves

The Rosenfeld Review Podcast (Rosenfeld Media)

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