I am delighted that we are starting out the New Year with a conversation with Dr Joe Layng.  Dr Layng is a behavior analyst who has over 40 years' experience in the experimental and applied analysis of behavior, with a particular focus on the design of teaching/learning environments. 

In Part 1 of our conversation Joe defined contingency adduction and shared several fascinating experiments that were done with pigeons.  Pigeons showed self awareness by passing the mirror test.  They demonstrated tool use and they left themselves notes so they would know which color key to peck after a long delay.  These experiments show that it is not a genetically based cognitive ability that determines whether or not an individual can solve a particular puzzle, but the component skills that are in repertoire.  This is true for pigeons, people and horses.

In Part two Joe describes a series of experiments showing how the manipulation of schedules of reinforcement changes social behavior.  In a very clever series of experiments Dr Paul Andronis demonstrated that pigeons showed perspective taking, theory of mind and symbolic aggression. 

These studies take us to a whole new appreciation of what animals are capable of.  As you listen to this episode, if you’re wondering how all these experiments with pigeons relate to horses, that’s one of the big ones.

Episode 218: Dr Joe Layng Pt 2: Schedules Of Reinforcement and the Effect on Social Behavior

We’re beginning a four part series on schedules of reinforcement with Dr Joe Layng.  Dr. Layng is a behavior analyst with over fifty years of experience in the experimental and applied analysis of behavior.  His most recent book is “Nonlinear Contingency Analysis: Going Beyond Cognition and Behavior in Clinical Practice.  I could go on with a long list of Joe’s professional credentials, but instead I’ll say that Joe was one of the regular presenters at the Art and Science of Animal Training conference.  That’s where I first met him. Joe’s talks were always for me the highlight of the conference in part because he prompted me to look at familiar concepts through a different lens.  

I always think of Joe as better than google.  During any conversation he’ll rattle off at least half a dozen references that need to be explored.   You’ll discover very quickly what I mean by that in the first part of this episode.  Joe has our guest before.  We’ve talked about contingency adduction, the effect of schedules on social behavior, and one of my favorite topics to discuss with Joe, degrees of freedom.  If those topics sound too academic for your tastes, don’t worry.  Joe is a wonderful story teller.  

In every  conversation Joe has left us with a teaser.  In this case he begins with a teaser.  Our plan was to talk about reinforcement schedules, but Joe jumped in chatting about a topic he’s been exploring recently - that of private experiences.  

Typically, I edit out the conversations we have when we first sign into zoom and we’re getting ourselves organized. In this case Joe’s comments were too much fun not to share.  So yes, we are going to talk about schedules of reinforcement in this episode, but first we’re going to indulge in a journey down a couple of interesting rabbit holes.

Episode 239 Dr Joe Layng Pt 1 Schedules Of Reinforcement

This is the third installment of our conversation with Dr. Joe Layng about schedules of reinforcement.  In this episode we’ll be talking more directly about shaping.  Joe introduces some more terms into the discussion, including ratio strain.  He makes distinctions between a program and a schedule, and between contingencies and dependencies.  And he highlights the role that extinction plays in shaping.

Episode 241  Dr. Joe Layng Pt 3 Schedules And Shaping

This is Part 1 of a three part conversation about public and private events with Dr Joe Layng.  We’ve just finished up a four part series on Feldenkrais work.  I think it is perfect that we’re following this series with Joe’s discussion of public and private events.  

In episode 259 Anita shared an ATM lesson with all of us.  What you experienced from this lesson is what you experienced, but I have no way of knowing if that is anything even remotely related to what I experienced.  

This is relevant and important especially when it comes to riding lessons where we are trying to translate into words a kinesthetic experience.  Joe’s discussion of public and private events begins there and then carries us into a discussion of what is consciousness.  He then asks: are animals aware? 

Dr Layng has been our guest before.  We’ve talked about contingency adduction, non linear analysis, the effect of schedules on social behavior, and degrees of freedom among many other topics.  Most recently we did a series with Joe on Schedules of Reinforcement.  Those are episodes  239 through 242.  I suggest that you listen to episode 239 as well as this current series.  That episode was a teaser for the conversation we are having on public and private events.

In this episode Joe talks about Helen Keller.  Most of us know who she was through the movie “The Miracle Worker”.  Helen Keller was born in 1880.  When she was just 19 months old, an illness left her blind and deaf.  Until she was seven years old she lived in a world without language.  If you’ve watched “The Miracle Worker” you know the scene where her teacher Anne Sullivan spelled out water on Helen’s hand while holding her hand under a hand pump.  The connection was made.  These odd hand movements meant water.  She could communicate!

In the clicker training world we often refer to this event as a Helen Keller moment.  That’s the excitement you see in some animals when they suddenly understand what the click means.  They can communicate!  We call the sudden surge in activity, excitement.  And we refer to these emotions as private events and we make a distinction between emotions and emotional behavior.  One is a private event which we can’t see and the other is an observable public event.  

Just when you think you’ve got this sorted, Joe throws a monkey wrench into our understanding by arguing that there is no difference between public and private events.  In this episode he he begins a conversation that offers us an intriguing way of thinking about what we think is our reality.

Episode 261 Dr Joe Layng Private And Public Events Pt 1 Helen Keller

This is Part Two of a Three part series on public and private events with our guest Dr Joe Layng.  Joe is a behavior analyst.  He's been our guest before.  We’ve talked about contingency adduction, non linear analysis, the effect of schedules on social behavior, and degrees of freedom among many other topics.  Most recently we did a series with Joe on Schedules of Reinforcement.  

Last week Joe talked about Helen Keller.  Most of us know who she was through the movie “The Miracle Worker”.  Helen Keller was born in 1880.  When she was just 19 months old, an illness left her blind and deaf.  Until she was seven years old she lived in a world without language.  If you’ve watched “The Miracle Worker” you know the scene where her teacher Anne Sullivan spelled out water on Helen’s hand while holding her hand under a hand pump.  The connection was made.  These odd hand movements meant water.  She could communicate!

In the clicker training world we often refer to this event as a Helen Keller moment.  That’s the excitement you see in some animals when they suddenly understand what the click means.  They can communicate!  We call the sudden surge in activity, excitement.  And we refer to these emotions as private events and we make a distinction between emotions and emotional behavior.  One is a private event which we can’t see and the other is an observable public event.  

Just when you think you’ve got this sorted, Joe throws a monkey wrench into our understanding by arguing that there is no difference between public and private events.  In this episode he’ll give us another intriguing way of thinking about what we think is our reality.

Episode 262 Dr Joe Layng Private And Public Events Pt 2 Stimulus Control -

We’re beginning a three part series with Dr Michaela Hempen.  The overall topic explores the question: What is the “Mind?” And how is that relevant to assessing animal welfare?  

This conversation grew out of our previous discussion with Dr Joe Layng on public and private events.  I suggest you listen to those episodes as an introduction to this discussion.

Why are these philosophical discussions relevant to horse training?  Michaela begins with a historical perspective.  What are the cultural influences that have shaped our attitude towards animals?  Why do we have this cultural bias that has created a hierarchy of animals?  Primates are high on the evolutionary scale, other animals are lower, and non-vertebrates are lower still.  How does this influence our training and management choices?  

Michaela is a scientific officer at the European Food Safety Authority.  Part of her work focuses on animal welfare.  She’s part of a team that is preparing reports for the European Commission, which, hopefully, will be the basis for updating the European animal welfare regulations.  

To prepare for this project Michaela did considerable background reading.  She wanted to understand the “great divide”.  This refers to a philosophical split between behaviorism and cognitive ethology.  

So join us as Michaela guides us through a historical look back on the evolution of these very different ways of viewing behavior.

For a list of references visit Equiosity.com and refer to the show notes for this episode.

Episode 264 Dr Michaela Hempen -What Is "The Mind" Pt 1 A Historical Perspective

Equiosity is the podcast about all things equine with a special emphasis on the horse-human bond.

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