With more states and localities legalizing what the government still calls "illicit" drugs, how should we rethink criminal penalties and treatment for people with substance abuse problems? What policy and cultural frameworks will allow all of us to make better use decisions, reduce harm to ourselves and others, and make sure people who need help can get it?

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At the latest Reason Speakeasy—a monthly live event in New York City with outspoken defenders of free speech and heterodox thinking—Nick Gillespie talked with Andrew Tatarsky, the founder of the Center for Optimal Living and the author of Harm Reduction Psychotherapy: A New Treatment for Drug and Alcohol Problems, and Maia Szalavitz, the author of Undoing Drugs: How Harm Reduction Is Changing the Future of Drugs and Addiction [Right?] and Unbroken Brain: A Revolutionary New Way of Understanding Addiction.

Tatarsky is widely recognized as one of the trailblazing pioneers behind the "harm reduction" movement, which seeks to minimize negative consequences of drug use rather than eradicate it. Szalavitz's work (including her articles for Reason) has long explored the role of agency and compassion in understanding and treating addictive and self-destructive behavior, and she writes with the authority of a former heroin user.

The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

Andrew Tatarsky and Maia Szalavitz: How 'Harm Reduction' Is Transforming Drug Policy

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Peter Suderman, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and special guest Eric Boehm delve into policing and violence in the wake of the video release showing Memphis police killing Tyre Nichols.

0:30: Tyre Nichols killed by Memphis police

23:37: The ongoing debt limit drama

36:31: Weekly Listener Question

44:55: Sending tanks to Ukraine

49:25: This week's cultural recommendations

Audio production by Ian Keyser
Assistant production by Hunt Beaty
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

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The Reason Roundtable

Are We Making Any Progress on Police Brutality?

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman delve into Congress' perpetual lack of interest in meaningful reforms to entitlements and discuss new data on the student exodus from public schools.

0:26: Joe Biden and entitlement spending

32:08: Weekly Listener Question

38:16: New data on school kids exiting public schools

47:54: Super Bowl lightning round

55:03: This week's cultural recommendations

Audio production by Ian Keyser
Assistant production by Hunt Beaty
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

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Under No Circumstances Did Joe Biden Save Social Security

Every Thursday at Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern, Zach Weissmueller and I go live at YouTube and Facebook with great thinkers, activists, politicians, entrepreneurs, policymakers and other people who are central to the world in which we live. We're excited to present the audio of those conversations as bonus episodes of the Reason Interview podcast.

This time around, we talked with Ethan Nadelmann, the former head of the Drug Policy Alliance and the host of the excellent Psychoactive podcast. Ethan is one of the the main reasons we live in a world where legal marijuana is increasingly available for adults—and why other drugs are being decriminalized and legalized too.

The main was whether we should legalize all drugs and, if so, how best to go about it? It's an in-depth conversation about all aspects of drug policy, drug use, and drug culture, including decriminalization versus legalization, addiction and treatment programs, and the effects of reforms in Portugal and elsewhere around the world.

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Ethan Nadelmann: How To Legalize All Drugs!

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In June, I traveled to Denver with Zach Weismueller to cover the Psychedelic Science 2023 conference, organized by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a group that has been working to gain Food and Drug Administration approval of MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD since the late 1980s. We produced a 30-minute documentary about today's "psychedelic renaissance."

The most surprising speaker at the conference was Rick Perry, the former Texas governor and Trump administration energy secretary. What in tarnation was a conservative Republican doing on the stage, extolling the virtues of drugs long associated with hippies and 1960s counterculture?

I sat down with Perry to learn why he believes psychedelics should be legal medicine for veterans and others suffering from PTSD, how to allow more immigrants to come to America lawfully, and why if he were ever to take a psychedelic drug it would be Ibogaine, a notoriously powerful substance made from the bark of an African tree.

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Rick Perry: The Conservative Case for Psychedelics

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My guest is Shane Mauss, a comedian who tours the country discussing his psychedelic experiences in fantastic, immersive shows like DMT: A Love Story and A Better Trip. If you're in the New York City area, he'll be appearing at the Psychedelic Assembly in midtown October 27-31 as a part of a Halloween-themed show called Spookadelic.

I caught up with him at the Psychedelic Science 2023 conference, held in Denver this June, where he participated in a "roast" of the psychedelic scene. Go here for "The Psychedelic Renaissance Is Here," Reason's 30-minute documentary about that event and the larger psychedelic movement.

Mauss, who also hosts a science podcast called Here We Are, shared his thoughts about the mainstreaming of psychedelic drugs, the surprising pace of legalization efforts, and the role that Joe Rogan, Aaron Rodgers, and other public figures play in normalizing psychedelics and promoting cognitive liberty.

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Shane Mauss: Finding the Humor in Psychedelics

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman consider U.S. foreign policy toward Iran in the wake of a helicopter crash that left Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi and Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian dead.

00:51—Iranian president dies in helicopter crash

16:46—Drug Enforcement Administration's proposal to reschedule marijuana

34:59—Weekly Listener Question

45:54—Reason Weekend 2024

56:09—This week's cultural recommendations

Today's sponsor:

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Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

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Death of an Authoritarian

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch and Nick Gillespie welcome not just one but two special guests from The Dispatch. In this convivial Roundtable crossover episode, Jonah Goldberg and Kevin D. Williamson ruminate on Kamala Harris' veep options, identity politics, and drug legalization.

04:54—Kamala Harris' potential running mates

20:09—Identity politics across both major parties

36:40—Weekly Listener Question

56:16—This week's cultural recommendations

Send your questions to roundtable@reason.com. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsors:

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Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

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Weighing Kamala Harris' Veep Options

This week's guest is Christina Dent, whose organization, End It For Good, seeks to change the approach to addiction from a criminal justice issue to a health-centered one. But Dent is not your typical anti–drug war activist. She's an evangelical Christian who believes legalizing drugs is the conservative thing to do—a position she adopted after an encounter she had as a foster mom.

Reason's Billy Binion and Dent talked about her conservative religious upbringing, the surprising history of the war on drugs, how the current approach to substance abuse fuels crime, misconceptions about people struggling with addiction, and why prohibition is actually a progressive response. She has also offered to send a copy of her recent memoir, Curious, free of charge to anyone interested in learning more, which you can request at curious@enditforgood.com.

0:00—Introduction
4:45—The foster experience that changed Dent
11:43—What causes addiction?
16:55—Addiction and recovery are not one-size-fits-all.

25:57—Drug criminalization is anti-Christian conservative values
33:14—Helping families struggling with addiction
41:34—Decriminalization efforts in the U.S.
46:52—The costs and tradeoffs of legalization
59:43—Is Dent conservative or Republican?
1:02:15—Dent's law enforcement outreach
1:17:26—Effective treatment is not cold turkey or zero-sum.

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Christina Dent: The Evangelical Christian Fighting To End the Drug War

The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie goes deep with the artists, entrepreneurs, politicians, and visionaries who are making the 21st century more libertarian—or at least more interesting—by challenging worn-out ideas and orthodoxies.

Today's guest is Joe Dolce, whose new book is Modern Psychedelics: The Handbook for Mindful Exploration.

Dolce argues that psychedelics aren't just the province of hippies or tech bros anymore. They are powerful and increasingly popular—and legal—tools for therapy, self-discovery, and play.

He talks with Gillespie about everything from the misunderstood role of ketamine in Friends star Matthew Perry's death to why ibogaine may be the only substance on Earth that can stop addiction cold, to how we went from "Just Say No!" campaigns to mail-order magic mushrooms in just a few short decades.

How can we make The Reason Interview better? Take our listener survey for a chance to win a $300 gift card: http://reason.com/podsurvey

0:00—Intro

1:25—What do psychedelics teach?

7:02—Psychedelic safety and ketamine myths

13:01—How psychedelics work and ibogaine effects

19:12—Microdosing

23:00—Psychedelics and altered states

28:10—Generational perceptions of psychedelics

30:59—Cultural acceptance of psychedelics

42:22—The future of psychedelics

48:34—Drug legalization and access

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Psychedelics Are Not Just for Hippies and Tech Bros

In this episode of The Reason Interview, Nick Gillespie is joined by Senior Editor Jacob Sullum, author of the new book Beyond Control, to discuss the evolution of gun and drug laws in America. They examine how decades of prohibitionist policies have backfired, undermining liberty and justice without delivering safety.

This was originally recorded live on September 4, 2025.

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Why Banning Drugs and Guns Never Works

Founded in 1968, Reason is the planet's leading source of news, politics, and culture from a libertarian perspective. Our podcast offerings include:

The Reason Roundtable
Every Monday, the libertarian editors of the magazine of “Free Minds and Free Markets”—Matt Welch, Nick Gillespie, Katherine Mangu-Ward, and Peter Suderman—discuss and debate the week’s biggest stories and what fresh hell awaits us all.

The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie
Want to know what comes next in politics, culture, and libertarian ideas? Reason’s Nick Gillespie hosts relentlessly interesting interviews with the activists, artists, authors, entrepreneurs, newsmakers, and politicians who are defining the 21st century.

The Soho Forum Debates
Reason presents a libertarian-themed debate series recorded monthly before a live audience in New York City. Moderated by former Barron's Economics Editor Gene Epstein, the Soho Forum features Nobel prize winners, radical thinkers, and other public intellectuals facing off over the future of bitcoin, veganism, sex work, illegal drugs, electric vehicles, abortion, robotics, government debt, and other controversial topics.

New tracks tagged #Drug Legalization