Dr. Fadhel Kaboub was recently appointed Under-Secretary-General for Financing for Development of the Organisation of Educational Cooperation (OEC), an international intergovernmental organisation founded by countries from across the Global South. In honor of Fadhel’s new position, we’re releasing Steve’s very first interview with him from back in the day when we live streamed onto Facebook. Steve thinks his questions are very different today — more disciplined. Some of us can’t get over how young he sounded. It was only five years ago!

Fadhel and Steve discuss the spectrum of monetary sovereignty from full sovereignty to completely non-sovereign. Fadhel explains the structural debt traps developing nations find themselves in. They have deficits related to lack of sufficient food or energy production, forcing them to rely on imports.

“Those are things that, no matter what you do as a central bank, you're not going to eliminate those structural issues unless as a country you start investing in renewable energy so that you don't have to import fossil fuels anymore or you invest in a sustainable agricultural policy to let you have food self-sufficiency.”

The hole in their trade deficit leads to depreciation of their exchange rate.

“And then the next morning or the next month when you as a country try to import food or fuel, you're going to import it at a higher price. So you'd be importing inflation into your domestic economy ... The inflation is related to a weakness of the productive capacity of the domestic system plus the imported inflation that happens because of the depreciation of the exchange rate.”

Fadhel and Steve also discuss the devastating effects of unemployment and the potential of a Job Guarantee Program for developing countries.

Dr. Fadhel Kaboub is Under-Secretary-General for Financing for Development of the Organisation of Educational Cooperation (OEC). He is an Associate Professor of Economics (on leave) at Denison University and President of the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity.

@FadhelKaboub on Twitter

Surfing the Wayback Machine: 2017 with Fadhel Kaboub

This week we’re bringing you all three sessions of the Real Progressives Book Club on L. Randall Wray’s Making Money Work for Us.  

RP Book Club is run by our volunteers with guest experts leading the discussion and taking questions from attendees.  

This is much longer than our usual episodes of Macro N Cheese, so we’ve included the time codes for each session. 

0:01:43 — Session One 

Guest economist Eric Tymoigne  

Chapter 1, What is Money? 

Chapter 2, Where Does Money Come From? 

1:14:35 — Session Two 

Guest economist Yeva Nersisyan  

Chapter 3, Can We Have Too Much Money?  

Chapter 4, Balances Balance  

Chapter 5, Life is Full of Trade-Offs 

2:43:33 — Session Three 

Guest economist Randy Wray 

Chapter 6, The MMT Alternative Framework for Policy  

Chapter 7, MMT and Policy 

Use this link to order the book: Making Money Work for Us: How MMT Can Save America by L. Randall Wray 

 

Eric Tymoigne is an Associate Professor of Economics at Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Oregon; and Research Associate at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College. @tymoignee on Twitter. 

Yeva Nersisyan is an Associate Professor of economics at Franklin and Marshall College and a Research Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute. 

L. Randall Wray is a Professor of Economics at Bard College and Senior Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute.

RP Book Club presents: Randy Wray's Making Money Work for Us

The title of this week’s episode is taken from an article to be published in September’s Monthly Review. The author, Jason Hickel, talks to Steve about the topic in his third visit to the podcast.

Before we look at the double objective of ecosocialism we must analyze the double crisis we’re facing – ecological and social. Both are caused by the same underlying issue: the capitalist mode of production.

Capitalism creates an almost perfect circuit that begins and ends with commodification and enclosure. Well, actually, it ends with massive profits... and that double crisis we mentioned. With essential goods and services outside our control, we have no bargaining power when it comes to the cost of living. We are helpless in the face of artificial scarcity and price-gouging. Faced with the high price of necessities we are forced to work longer and harder in order to simply survive. And of course, the more we need to work, the less control we have over our wages. The capitalist class makes out at both ends.

There are at least two undeniable problems with this system. It wreaks havoc on the environment and is inconsistent with democracy, if you care about that sort of thing.

“This is where our analysis has to ultimately lead, and the underlying pathology is basically that capitalism is fundamentally not democratic.”

Even those of us who live in the US, Europe, or other countries with nominally democratic electoral systems have no illusions about their undemocratic nature.

“More importantly, when it comes to the system of production, which all of us are engaged in every day, on which our livelihoods and our existence depends, not even the shallowest illusion of democracy is allowed to enter.”

After identifying the quagmire, Jason and Steve talk about a solution. Jason lays out the necessary policies that ecosocialism should provide: universal public services, a public works program, and the job guarantee. Jason even suggests the possibility of post-capitalist firms and post-capitalist markets, and describes how they might operate in such a system.

We can’t have a Jason Hickel episode without a discussion of degrowth and whether that concept applies to the exploitation of the Global South. Nor is there a means of achieving our goals without domestic and international class solidarity.

“We can't underestimate the scale of the struggle that is really involved here. I think we have to take inspiration from successful social movements that have occurred in the past. There's this amazing line from Thomas Sankara, the revolutionary leader of Burkina Faso that goes 'we are the heirs of the world's revolutions'.

Pretty much every good thing that we have is the result of revolutionary forces that fought to bring that to be. Everything from literally the minimum wage, as pitiful as it is, to the weekends, to whatever admittedly meager forms of democracy we get to exercise. These are all the benefits of revolutionary movements that have at least won some concessions in the past, and in some cases against extraordinary odds.”

Dr. Jason Hickel is an economic anthropologist, author, and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts. He is Professor at the Institute for Environmental Science and Technology at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, Visiting Senior Fellow at the International Inequalities Institute at the London School of Economics, and Chair Professor of Global Justice and the Environment at the University of Oslo. Health.

Jason's research focuses on global political economy, inequality, and ecological economics, which are the subjects of his two most recent books: The Divide: A Brief Guide to Global Inequality and its Solutions (Penguin, 2017), and Less is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World (Penguin, 2020), which was listed by the Financial Times and New Scientist as a book of the year.

@jasonhickel on Twitter

The Double Objective of Democratic Ecosocialism with Jason Hickel

“...Because we recognize that taxes are not a funding operation, there's this myth that people who support MMT don't want to use fiscal policy to promote equity. Of course, taxes are redistribution … Things have gotten way out of hand, so taxation is also intended to promote equity, to affect distribution and allocation. Resource allocation.”

Mat Forstater was on this podcast four years ago (episode 21!) recounting the history of MMT. He described his early days at Levy Institute and UMKC, his relationship with Warren Mosler and Pavlina Tcherneva, and how they established MMT as interdisciplinary, expanding into law and humanities. If you haven’t listened to that episode, we urge you to check it out.

This week, Mat talks to Steve about the role of taxation in the economy and its relation to government spending. It’s not enough to understand how taxes create a demand for the nation’s currency and give it value. Mat always reminds us to consider the total impact of any policy — from using taxation to encourage or discourage behavior, to its ripple effects and unintended consequences.

They touch on the importance of decoupling taxation from federal programs and the need to design tax policies that consider the indirect effects on society. They also talk about the potential deflationary impact of programs like Medicare for All, and whether a job guarantee can address unemployment and provide quality jobs.

Dr. Mathew Forstater is a professor in Economics at the University of Missouri/Kansas City and the Research Director of the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity. having received a Ph.D. at The New School for Social Research. His research focuses on the History of Economic Thought, Economic Methodology, Political Economy, Public Policy, Economics of Discrimination, Environmental Economics, African and African American Economic History. 

@mattybram on Twitter

What's Bugging Mathew Forstater?

** If you haven’t yet come to our Tuesday night listening party, this is the week to do so. Join the Real Progressives community as we dive in and discuss this episode. The registration link is posted on our Events Calendar prior to each Tuesday’s session — it’s usually up by Saturday. Look for Macro ‘n Chill. https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar/

This week Steve talks with our friend, economist Fadhel Kaboub. Followers of this podcast will recognize some of the themes we regularly focus on, including the debt trap facing countries of the global South, and the need for climate action and transformative economic development. Current plans under consideration are extractive and paternalistic, continuing the patterns of colonial exploitation.

At the root of the external debt problem are three major structural issues: food deficits, energy deficits, and manufacturing deficits. Fadhel breaks down each of these problems, tracing the origins and suggesting how solutions will benefit not just Africa and the global South, but the international working class.

“So, the type of thinking that we need to have today is one of two options. Do we work towards reforming this global economic architecture that was designed for these purposes? Or do we build a parallel, alternative economic architecture from the ground up? I'm of the opinion that the countries that dominate the current economic architecture will fight to death to keep their supremacy.”

Steve and Fadhel also discuss MMT, degrowth, and the job guarantee. They look at the role China could play in Africa.

Fadhel Kaboub is an associate professor of economics at Denison University (on leave), and the president of the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity. He is also a member of the Independent Expert Group on Just Transition and Development and serves as senior advisor with Power Shift Africa.

@FadhelKaboub on Twitter

Deconstructing the Colonial Archetype with Fadhel Kaboub

** Be sure to check the Real Progressives website’s calendar for upcoming events. On Sunday, March 17th at noon ET/9am PT, we’re hosting a webinar, RP Live with Esha Krishnaswamy: Putin’s Russia. On Tuesday evenings, 8pm ET/5pm PT, come to Macro ‘n Chill, where we listen to the most recent episode of this podcast and discuss it with the community. https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar/ 

“Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon, in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in output.” Milton Friedman 

This quote by the granddaddy of neoliberal economics is from 1963. Some in the mainstream have been dining out on it ever since.  

According to our guest, author and blogger Brian Romanchuk, neoclassical economics relies on mathematical models and fail to capture the complexity of real-world inflation. He highlights the importance of understanding the supply and demand dynamics in setting prices and explains that inflation can be influenced by factors such as supply chain shocks and changes in the labor market.  

Brian also points out that it’s not enough to blame inflation on corporate greed; after all, corporations are always driven to maximize profits. He mentions the Cantillon effect, which suggests that the first recipients of newly created money benefit from inflation as prices go up, while the poor and working class bear the brunt of higher prices down the road.  

Brian and Steve discuss inflation constraints on fiscal policy. Brian argues that while extreme fiscal policies could lead to inflation, most of the time, fiscal policy is relatively moderate and does not have a significant impact on inflation. They criticize the government for not trying to set prices and argue that the government often follows the private sector's lead, making things worse. 

Brian Romanchuk is the author of several books, including Modern Monetary Theory and the Recovery. He is the writer and publisher of bondeconomics.com. His writings can be found in his substack, The BondEconomics Newsletter.  

@RomanchukBrian on Twitter

There Is No Magic Pricing Fairy with Brian Romanchuk

In this episode, Steve has a conversation with Tschäff (pronounced “Jeff”) Reisberg, the secretary of the Charlotte Metrolina Labor Council and a professional flight attendant, about the vital role of the labor movement through the lens of MMT.  

They look at the intersection of movement building and labor's role, emphasizing that real economic advocacy should lead to tangible change. Steve contrasts this to the naivety of relying solely on voting within a captured oligarchic system.  

They discuss historical and current labor struggles, touching on the need for transforming unions from business unionism to class struggle-oriented unions. Tschäff shares insights on the positive outcomes of recent labor actions which have revitalized union activity. 

They also talk about the importance of a job guarantee and consider how unions might engage with broader social movements, emphasizing solidarity and the power of labor to enact change by shutting down production. 

Tschäff Reisberg is not only an early proponent of MMT, but is secretary of the Charlotte Metrolina Labor Council, and an Association of Professional Flight Attendants member. He has been with the American Airlines Flight Attendants union in difficult and contentious times, including through Covid. This perspective has given Tschäff unique insights into the burgeoning labor movement we are experiencing today.

MMT Gives Labor Its Wings with Tschäff Reisberg

This working paper from the Levy Economics Institute proposes a policy solution to the problem of involuntary unemployment in the United States: the Job Guarantee (JG). This comprehensive policy document explores the concept, objectives, and design features of the JG program, arguing that it is a superior policy option to the current system of unemployment benefits.  The paper begins by defining full employment as a situation where anyone of legal working age who wants to work can obtain employment at a living wage with decent working conditions. It then examines the conceptual understanding of unemployment, identifying it as a monetary problem, a failure of the public sector, and a moral failure.  The paper proceeds to outline the objectives of the JG program, including providing decent jobs on demand to all who wish to work, guaranteeing a basic human right to employment, creating job opportunities in close proximity to the unemployed, and serving the public purpose. It then details key program features, such as its permanent but voluntary nature, living wage guarantee, local administration, federal funding, and its role as a safety net and transitional jobs program.  The paper further explores the expected benefits of the JG, including the elimination of involuntary unemployment, raising the income floor, establishing a labor standard for the economy as a whole, stabilizing inflation, improving income distribution, and disrupting vicious cycles in the labor market. It also emphasizes the economic, social, and environmental benefits of the program.  The paper delves into the design and implementation aspects of the JG program, discussing its short- and long-run operation, preparedness response through Community Jobs Banks, preventative features, program budget and funding mechanism, administrative agencies and project-executing organizations, and participatory democracy. It also details types of jobs that could be created under the JG, with a particular focus on a "National Care Act" that addresses environmental, community, and individual care needs.  Finally, the paper explores popular support for the JG, addressing frequently asked questions about the program's size, wage, cost, funding, administration, potential displacement of existing work, job types, potential for corruption and abuse, and its effectiveness as a countercyclical stabilizer. The authors argue that the JG is a necessary policy solution for addressing the complex issue of unemployment, offering a more humane and effective approach to economic stability and social progress. 

Paper: https://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_902.pdf

Deep Dive Podcast:  The Job Guarantee: Design, Jobs, and Implementation

Macroeconomics has never been so ... delish!  Macro and Cheese explores the progressive movement through the lens of Modern Monetary Theory, with hot and irreverent political takes, spotlights in activism, and the razor sharp musings of Real Progressives Founder and host Steve Grumbine.  The cheese will flow as experts come in for a full, four course deep dive into the hot queso. 

Comfort Food for Thought!

New tracks tagged #JobGuarantee