In this week’s episode, host Margaret Walls talks with Megan Lawson, an economist and researcher at Headwaters Economics, about how outdoor recreation economies support communities throughout the United States despite creating unique challenges for their residents. Many US communities that border public lands and scenic natural areas have recreation-dependent economies, meaning a majority of the local economy is driven by recreational activities and tourism. Lawson explains how recreation-dependent economies can be vulnerable to over-tourism, shortages in affordable housing, and increased risk of wildfires and floods. Lawson then unpacks the feasibility of public land sales to address challenges in making affordable housing available and describes ways to increase hazard resilience in recreation-dependent communities to protect full-time residents and visitors. 

References and recommendations:

“Housing on public lands will be limited by wildfire risk and development challenges” by Megan Lawson; https://headwaterseconomics.org/public-lands/wildfire-public-land-housing/

“If/Then: The Slippery Slope of Federal Land Sales” by Margaret Walls and Alexandra Thompson; https://www.resources.org/common-resources/if-then-the-slippery-slope-of-federal-land-sales/

“In Defense of Public Lands” by Steven Davis; http://tupress.temple.edu/books/in-defense-of-public-lands

“History of the Rain” by Niall Williams; https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/history-of-the-rain-9781620407707/


Recreation-Dependent Communities, Public Lands, and Housing Affordability, with Megan Lawson

In this week’s episode, host Kristin Hayes talks with Danny Richter, director of the Pricing Carbon Initiative, about the existing suite of carbon pricing policies, a set of climate policy tools designed to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by requiring companies and other entities to pay for each ton of carbon dioxide they release into the atmosphere. Richter evaluates the international and domestic approaches to carbon pricing policies, explaining their history, uptake, and longevity. Richter highlights the flexibility of carbon pricing programs—which allows policymakers to tailor the sources and investment of revenues from carbon pricing to their unique policy priorities—as key to the long-term success of these programs. Richter then outlines shifting attitudes toward carbon pricing in the United States, highlighting how successful cap-and-invest initiatives emphasize the economic advantages of these policies while delivering climate benefits.

References and recommendations:

Pricing Carbon Initiative; https://pricingcarbon.org/

“Fourth Generation Carbon Prices” by Danny Richter; https://pricingcarbon.org/2024/11/fourth-generation-carbon-prices/

“Reserved: Carbon Pricing and the Dollar’s Special Status” by Danny Richter; https://pricingcarbon.org/2025/04/reserved-carbon-pricing-and-the-dollars-special-status/

Carbon Pricing Dashboard from the World Bank; https://carbonpricingdashboard.worldbank.org/

“How Carbon Border Adjustments Might Drive Global Climate Policy Momentum” by Kimberly Clausing, Milan Elkerbout, Katarina Nehrkorn, and Catherine Wolfram; https://www.rff.org/publications/reports/how-carbon-border-adjustments-might-drive-global-climate-policy-momentum/

“Our Dollar, Your Problem” by Kenneth Rogoff; https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300275315/our-dollar-your-problem/

Carbon Pricing Is Dead. Long Live Carbon Pricing!, with Danny Richter

In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Diana Hernández, an associate professor and codirector of the Energy Opportunity Lab at the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University, about the struggles that ordinary Americans face in accessing affordable and reliable energy. In her recently released book, Powerless: The People’s Struggle for Energy, Hernández documents how energy insecurity affects people across the country and analyzes policy solutions that can help address the challenge. Hernández explains the interconnections among housing, public health, and poverty through stories which highlight the highly personal nature of energy insecurity and the difficult choices many Americans must make between essential expenses. Hernández then outlines potential improvements to existing energy-assistance programs, including increased support for year-round energy expenses and program adaptations to accommodate a changing climate.

References and recommendations:

“Powerless: The People’s Struggle for Energy” by Diana Hernández and Jennifer Laird, https://www.russellsage.org/publications/powerless

“Abundance” by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson; https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488

“Plundered” by Bernadette Atuahene; https://bernadetteatuahene.com/plundered/

“Debí Tirar Más Fotos” album by Bad Bunny; https://www.allmusic.com/album/deb%C3%AD-tirar-m%C3%A1s-fotos-mw0004451357

Energy Affordability Is Personal, with Diana Hernandez

In this week’s episode, host Daniel Rami talks with Heather Zichal, global head of sustainability at JPMorganChase, about the role of financial institutions in the energy transition. Zichal explains how she has advanced climate policy goals from positions in the United States Congress, the executive branch, nonprofits, and the financial sector. From these diverse perspectives, Zichal outlines the opportunities and challenges for climate-policy stakeholders as they navigate an uncertain political environment. Zichal highlights how financial institutions support the energy transition through green finance commitments, supporting clients’ sustainability goals, and investing in emerging technologies to support the world’s energy needs. Zichal underscores the importance of promoting climate solutions that focus on long-term value in the context of commercial and sustainability goals and that balance environmental and business priorities.

References and recommendations:

“Ocean” with David Attenborough; https://silverbackfilms.tv/shows/oceanwithdavidattenborough/

Financing the Energy Transition amid Unpredictable Climate Policy, with Heather Zichal

In n this week’s episode, host Kristin Hayes talks with Kristen McCormack, Resources for the Future’s newest research fellow, about McCormack’s scholarly work on the impact of extreme temperatures on student absences, disciplinary infractions, and later-life outcomes. McCormack explains how she combined student data from a large urban school district in the United States, information about the presence or absence of air-conditioning, and environmental data to understand the causal link between temperature and student behavior. McCormack’s work reveals that hot temperatures lead to an increase in absences and disciplinary referrals and that school air-conditioning may be especially important in maintaining a safe learning environment for students as extreme temperatures become more common.

References and recommendations:

“Education Under Extremes: Temperature, Student Absenteeism, and Disciplinary Infractions” by Kristen McCormack; https://kristen-mccormack.com/files/mccormack_jmp.pdf

“The School to Prison Pipeline: Long-Run Impacts of School Suspensions on Adult Crime” by Andrew Bacher-Hicks, Stephen B. Billings, and David J. Deming; https://www.nber.org/papers/w26257

“How Much Hotter Is Your Hometown Than When You Were Born?” interactive infographic from the New York Times; https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/30/climate/how-much-hotter-is-your-hometown.html

“Meadowlark Sings and I Greet Him in Return,” a poem from the collection “Devotions” by Mary Oliver; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/536247/devotions-a-read-with-jenna-pick-by-mary-oliver/

Sweating Over Student Behavior in Hot Schools, with Kristen McCormack

In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi discusses fossil fuel subsidies with Paasha Mahdavi, an associate professor and cofounder of the 2035 Initiative at the University of California, Santa Barbara. They talk about how subsidies on goods such as gasoline and diesel lead to lower prices for consumers. However, because these subsidies encourage the use of fossil fuels, reforming such policies is important when promoting the use of renewable energy. Mahdavi explores why many attempts to reform fossil fuel subsidies have failed, and he proposes potential avenues for addressing the weaknesses of reforms which could lead to failure of the subsidies.

References and recommendations:

“Fossil fuel subsidy reforms have become more fragile” by Paasha Mahdavi, Michael L. Ross, and Evelyn Simoni; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-025-02283-4

“Why Do Governments Tax or Subsidize Fossil Fuels?” by Paasha Mahdavi, Cesar B. Martinez-Alvarez, and Michael L. Ross; https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/719272

“Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet” by Kate Marvel; https://www.harpercollins.com/products/human-nature-kate-marvel

“Climate Change and National Security” TEDx talk by Josh Busby; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8neK0G0NJ8

Understanding Fossil Fuel Subsidies Around the World, with Paasha Mahdavi

In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi discusses subsidies for carbon capture and storage (CCS) with Sheila Olmstead, a professor at the Cornell Jeb E. Brooks School of Public Policy and a senior faculty fellow at the Cornell Atkinson Center for Sustainability. Olmstead evaluates the complicated nature of the 45Q policy, a federal subsidy available to firms that implement CCS. While CCS subsidy programs promote the reduction of carbon emissions, Olmstead identifies these subsidies as having the potential to financially burden the federal government, discourage clean energy projects, and motivate more pollution.

References and recommendations:

“How to design better incentives for carbon capture and storage in the United States” by Sheila M. Olmstead, Benjamin D. Leibowicz, Charles F. Mason, Andrew R. Waxman, Emily Grubert, HR Huber-Rodriguez, and Joseph Stemmler; https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2404677122

“Night Watch” by Jayne Anne Phillips; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/540650/night-watch-pulitzer-prize-winner-by-jayne-anne-phillips/

Airing New Concerns with US Carbon Capture Policies, with Sheila Olmstead

This week’s episode features a discussion of the recent US federal investment in a privately held mine—the Mountain Pass Rare Earth Mine in California—with host Daniel Raimi and podcast guest Tom Moerenhout, a professor at Columbia University and leader of a critical minerals initiative at the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs. Moerenhout talks about the current US dependence on foreign imports for rare earth elements, which are used to manufacture things like wind turbines, batteries, missiles, and airplanes. While recent federal investment in the Mountain Pass mine puts financial risk on the US government, Moerenhout says that this type of approach could help the United States reduce its reliance on other countries for rare earth elements.

References and recommendations:

“MP Materials Deal Marks a Significant Shift in US Rare Earths Policy” by Tom Moerenhout; https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/mp-materials-deal-marks-a-significant-shift-in-us-rare-earths-policy/

The case study of A123 Systems; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123_Systems

“Clean energy innovation in China: fact and fiction, and implications for the future” by Anders Hove; https://www.oxfordenergy.org/publications/clean-energy-innovation-in-china-fact-and-fiction-and-implications-for-the-future/

An Unprecedented Investment in US Rare Earth Elements, with Tom Moerhenhout

In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi discusses carbon removal with Jennifer Wilcox, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania who recently coauthored a paper titled, “Elevating Carbon Management: A Policy Decision-Making Framework and Rubric for the 21st Century.” Wilcox discusses the existing gaps in current policies related to carbon removal and important considerations when amending and creating new policies. She also addresses the recent change to the 45Q subsidy (originally included in the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 and revised by Congress in the budget reconciliation bill signed on July 4, 2025), assessing how the updated tax break offers incentives for carbon removal.

“Elevating Carbon Management: A Policy Decision-Making Framework and Rubric for the 21st Century” by Jennifer Wilcox, Noah Deich, and Holly Jean Buck; https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/elevating-carbon-management-a-policy-decision-making-framework-and-rubric-for-the-21st-century/

National Park Service Rehabilitation Tax Credits; https://www.nps.gov/subjects/taxincentives/index.htm

Achieving Societal Goals Through Carbon Removal, with Jennifer Wilcox

In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Arvind Ravikumar, an assistant professor at the University of Texas at Austin, about recent federal deregulation of methane emissions in the United States; specifically, the effects on methane emissions from the production of natural gas and liquefied natural gas. Ravikumar highlights some of his recent research, which explores how all steps in the supply chain of natural gas can affect emissions intensity—including transportation of the energy source to end users—and the variation in methane emissions across countries from their natural gas supply chains.

References and recommendations:

“Tracking U.S. Liquefied Natural Gas Supply Chain Greenhouse Gas Emissions Intensity through Direct Measurements” by Yuanrui Zhu, Greg Ross, Jenna Brown, Olga Khaliukova, William Daniels, Jiayang (Lyra) Wang, Selina Roman-White, Fiji George, Daniel Zimmerle, Dorit Hammerling, and Arvind Ravikumar; https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/6882ca69fc5f0acb52e159e3

“Probabilistic, Measurement-Informed Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Global Liquefied Natural Gas Supply Chains Reveal Wide Country-Level Variation” by Haoming Ma, Yuanrui Zhu, Wennan Long, Mohammad Masnadi, Garvin Heath, Paul Balcombe, Fiji George, Selina Roman-White, and Arvind Ravikumar; https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/6883b68723be8e43d6fdcf73

“AI as Normal Technology” by Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor; https://knightcolumbia.org/content/ai-as-normal-technology

Measuring Emissions from Liquefied Natural Gas, with Arvind Ravikumar

Resources Radio is a weekly podcast by Resources for the Future. Each week we talk to leading experts about climate change, electricity, ecosystems, and more, making the latest research accessible to everyone.

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