In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman welcome special guest Elizabeth Nolan Brown as they unpack the latest indictment against former President Donald Trump. They also check in on the ongoing legal saga of the classified advertising site Backpage in the wake of founder James Larkin's untimely death.

0:46: The latest Trump indictment

21:21: The legacy of free speech warrior James Larkin

46:25: Weekly Listener Question

53:27: This week's cultural recommendations

Today's sponsor:

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Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

The Reason Roundtable

Have We Lost Track of the Trump Indictments Yet?

Today's episode is an audio version of The Reason Livestream, which takes place every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern on Reason's YouTube channel.

Zach Weissmueller talked with Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine, economics, and health research policy at Stanford University, and John Vecchione of the New Civil Liberties Alliance. They are among the plaintiffs in the lawsuit Missouri v. Biden, which names the president, the Justice Department, the FBI, and nearly the entire federal public health apparatus as defendants. Attorneys general for the states of Missouri and Louisiana brought the case against the federal government in May 2022 for what they describe as "open collusion with social media companies to suppress disfavored speakers, viewpoints, and content." Bhattacharya and Vecchione say that the government illegally squelched their speech throughout the COVID-19 pandemic and the 2020 presidential election by pushing social media platforms to remove or minimize the reach of heterodox views on COVID-19.

In July, U.S. District Court Judge Terry A. Doughty issued a preliminary injunction ordering the federal agencies to cease meeting with social media companies for the purpose of "inducing in any manner the removal…of content containing protected free speech posted on social-media platforms." Last week, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals heard arguments challenging that injunction.

Bhattacharya and Vecchione talk with Zach about the state of the lawsuit, what a victory or loss in court would mean for free speech online, the legal limits of government–social media "partnerships," and the ways in which the government blurred the line between private content moderation and outright censorship to suppress or mislabel factual information or opinion as "misinformation" during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Today's sponsors:

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Why We Can't Have Nice Things. A six-part Reason magazine podcast series about the frustrating and foolish aspects of American trade policy that make everyday items more expensive. From last year's sudden shortages of baby formula to the Jones Act and President Lyndon Johnson's infamous "chicken war," host Eric Boehm sits down with industry experts and libertarian policy wonks to explore how these counterproductive rules got made—and explains why they can be so difficult to undo.

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The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

Jay Bhattacharya & John Vecchione: Biden's Social Media Meddling Was Illegal

We've got a slightly unusual (at first glace) crosspost episode for you this week! Recently, Mike joined Dave Cooper, CEO and Founder of brand protection agency IPSecure, on the company's Owning The Buy Box podcast. As you probably know, we're pretty skeptical of brand protection companies here at Techdirt, but Dave has a history of heeding our criticisms and being thoughtful about policy and court rulings, enabling an interesting and insightful discussion about a recent legal decision and the brand protection space as a whole.

The Techdirt Podcast

Liability, Speech & Marketplaces

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman laud the election of libertarian economist Javier Milei in Argentina and parse the results of the federal case involving the online advertising platform Backpage.

0:31—Javier Milei elected president of Argentina

16:25—Verdicts in the Backpage trial

36:43—Weekly Listener Question

46:44—Sam Altman out at OpenAI

54:48—This week's cultural recommendations

Today's Sponsor:

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Join us on November 27 in New York City for a viewing (and afterparty) of the new Reason documentary: Bitcoin, Bathhouses, and the Future of Energy. Tickets and details here.  

Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

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The World's First Libertarian President

Over the past decade, no legal scholar has pushed arguments for free speech as far or as influentially as today's guest: Jeff Kosseff, a former journalist who now teaches cybersecurity law at the U.S. Naval Academy. In previous books, he defended Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act in The Twenty-Six Words That Created the Internet and stood up for anonymous speech in The United States of Anonymous: How the First Amendment Shaped Online Speech.

His new book is his boldest yet. It's called Liar in a Crowded Theater: Freedom of Speech in a World of Misinformation and I liked it so much that I blurbed it, calling it "a smart, wry, deeply researched and utterly convincing defense of legal protections for 'misinformation' in an age when we are less likely to agree on basic facts than ever before."

We talk about why "misinformation"—however defined—should be legally protected, how the boundaries between private companies and government are getting blurrier and blurrier, and why so many journalists are calling for limits on the First Amendment.

Today's sponsors:

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The Reason Speakeasy. The Reason Speakeasy is a monthly, unscripted conversation in New York City with outspoken defenders of free thinking and heterodoxy that doubles as a live taping of The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie. Go here to listen to past Speakeasy events and go here to learn about upcoming ones, including one on Tuesday, December 12 with Stanford historian Jennifer Burns, whose new book is The Last Conservative, a highly praised biography of Milton Friedman.

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Jeff Kosseff: Why False Speech Deserves First Amendment Protections

Last week, the House Energy and Commerce Committee had a hearing all about Section 230, in which they didn't even attempt to find a witness pointing out its benefits. Among the many organizations that could have provided that vital perspective is the Wikimedia Foundation (as seen in three excellent posts on Medium), and this week we're joined by Rebecca MacKinnon, Wikimedia's VP of Global Advocacy and long-time open internet defender, to talk about why the hearing was bad and Section 230 is very, very important.

Posts by Wikimedia:
https://medium.com/wikimedia-policy/if-congress-repeals-section-230-what-will-that-mean-for-wikipedia-691559dfb2c5

https://medium.com/wikimedia-policy/common-assumptions-and-misunderstandings-about-online-content-moderation-and-reforming-section-230-eb9bd6d70d58

https://medium.com/wikimedia-policy/alternatives-to-reforming-section-230-refocusing-internet-regulation-on-empowering-people-c175af4d6626

Abolishing Section 230 Would Abolish Wikipedia

At the latest committee hearing about its repeal bill, Congress finally deigned to bring in one witness who spoke in defense of Section 230. Engine Executive Director Kate Tummarello got a little bit of time to explain how Section 230 isn't about protecting big tech, it's about protecting the hosts and users of all kinds of extremely important and valuable online communities. But that little bit of time was far from enough, so this week Kate joins us on the podcast to say some more things that Congress really, really needs to listen to.

The Importance Of Section 230 For Online Communities

We've got another cross-post for you this week, and this time it's also a live panel recording. Recently, Mike joined a panel at Boston University Questrom School of Business which was recorded for WBUR's Is Business Broken? podcast, alongside professors Marshall Van Alstyne and Nadine Strossen, and moderated by host Curt Nickisch. The discussion is all about Section 230 specifically and the regulation of speech more broadly, and you can listen to the whole thing here on this week's episode.

Regulating Speech In An Age Of Fake News

We recently announced the launch of Otherwise Objectionable, a brand new documentary podcast hosted by Mike in partnership with the Competitive Enterprise Institute, covering the history — and the vital importance — of Section 230. This week, we're featuring the entire debut episode right here on the Techdirt Podcast. Check it out, and subscribe to Otherwise Objectionable in your podcast app of choice.

A New Podcast All About Section 230

Evan Greer joins the show to discuss technology, internet censorship, gender politics, music, anarchism, and more!

Evan Greer (she/her/they/them) is a trans/genderqueer activist singer/songwriter, parent, and organizer based in Boston. She writes and performs high-energy acoustic songs that inspire hope, build community, and incite resistance! Evan tours internationally as a musician and speaker, and facilitates interactive workshops to support movements for justice and liberation. Wielding an arsenal of fiercely radical songs that vary in style from pop-punk poetry to foot-stompin’ bluegrass singalongs. She's currently the campaign director for Fight for the Future, the viral digital rights nonprofit behind the largest online protests in history.

Links:
https://evangreer.org
https://evangreer.bandcamp.com
https://www.fightforthefuture.org
https://mastodon.online/@evangreer
https://bsky.app/profile/evangreer.bsky.social

Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:09:57 Section 230
00:18:39 How to Survive 2025
00:26:15 Using the Internet for Good
00:30:25 Privacy
00:37:37	The Legislative Front
00:41:45 Trans Solidarity
00:44:42 The Importance of Music
00:47:38	Spotify is Surveillance
00:51:04	Selling Out
00:53:32	Lightning Round
01:00:37 Book Recommendations
01:01:41 Copyleft AI Outro

Thanks for listening!
Please like, comment, subscribe, and share!

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Non Serviam Podcast #66 - Fight For The Net with Evan Greer

The Techdirt Podcast, hosted by Michael Masnick.

Founded in 1968, Reason is the planet's leading source of news, politics, and culture from a libertarian perspective. Our podcast offerings include:

The Reason Roundtable
Every Monday, the libertarian editors of the magazine of “Free Minds and Free Markets”—Matt Welch, Nick Gillespie, Katherine Mangu-Ward, and Peter Suderman—discuss and debate the week’s biggest stories and what fresh hell awaits us all.

The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie
Want to know what comes next in politics, culture, and libertarian ideas? Reason’s Nick Gillespie hosts relentlessly interesting interviews with the activists, artists, authors, entrepreneurs, newsmakers, and politicians who are defining the 21st century.

The Soho Forum Debates
Reason presents a libertarian-themed debate series recorded monthly before a live audience in New York City. Moderated by former Barron's Economics Editor Gene Epstein, the Soho Forum features Nobel prize winners, radical thinkers, and other public intellectuals facing off over the future of bitcoin, veganism, sex work, illegal drugs, electric vehicles, abortion, robotics, government debt, and other controversial topics.

Exploring the world of anarchist and anti-authoritarian ideas. Radical voices in precarious times.

New tracks tagged #Section 230