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This episode is the first of a two-part discussion delving into historical splits within socialism. C. Derick Varn, the host of Varn Vlog, has an extensive background in philosophy, anthropology, and history. He takes us from the First and Second Internationals to the ideological divergences of Trotskyism and Stalinism. He also discusses the factions within Leninism, the impact of World War I on socialist strategies, and the emergence of Trotskyist and Marxist-Leninist thought. The episode navigates through key historical figures, including Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin. Of course it wouldn’t be Macro N Cheese without a look at Modern Monetary Theory and its place in a discussion of socialist theory.  

C. Derick Varn is a poet, teacher, and political theorist. He is the host of Varn Vlog. He was a reader at Zer0 books from 2015 to 2021. He spent most of the 2010s outside the U.S. in the Republic of Korea, Mexico, and Egypt. He is the author of the poetry collections, Apocalyptics and Liberation and All the Bright Etcetera.  

https://varnblog.substack.com 

Find all his links at https://allmylinks.com/dionysuseatsyou  

The Red Thread: A History of Socialist Tradition with C. Derick Varn, Part 1

Part of our mission is to introduce MMTers to socialism and socialists to MMT. We’ve had a few metaphorical doors slammed in our faces along the way. Former friends from the MMT community now delight in slinging accusations worthy of a HUAC hearing, while some socialists suspect modern monetary theory is just a sideshow of bourgeois economics. So, we didn’t know what to expect when we reached out to Justin and Jeremy, co-hosts of a podcast we’ve long admired. Compared to the vicious rejection we sometimes encounter, their good faith skepticism felt like a warm embrace. They invited Steve and Virginia to come onto Proles Pod and make a case for the radicalizing potential of MMT.

The conversation goes into the role of the state in currency issuance, the coercive nature of taxation, and how MMT can critique and unveil the inherent power dynamics within capitalism. Austerity, that devastating weapon of class warfare, is not a glitch; it’s a feature.

Virginia asks that listeners stop using the expression taxpayer money. “Even if you’re not ready to wrap your mind around MMT, just start calling it public money. You might not believe where it comes from but just stop. It’s public money.” Given the classist, racist implications of relying on taxpayers to fund the government, a change in language is a good first step. Steve adds: “Whatever you tax, you immortalize. Whatever you tax, if you believe it’s funding, you need forever.” The state is the source of currency; let’s stop elevating billionaires.

They look at the relationship between currency manipulation, inflation, and global economic dominance. They also touch on Gramsci and the impact of cultural hegemony. Ultimately, they agree on the necessity of a class-based analysis as a prerequisite for revolutionary change.

Proles Pod is a podcast about history, politics, and culture… without the liberalism

Find their work at prolespod.libsyn.com/

Support them at patreon.com/prolespod

Follow them @ProlesPod on X

MMT for the Proles

This week we're releasing an interview Steve did as a guest of Jim Byrne, host of MMT101 podcast.  

Steve and Jim have much in common, so it’s interesting to hear how their approaches differ. In part, this is related to the conditions of their nationalities. Jim, in Scotland, isn’t faced with the myth of political democracy. They have a devolved government, under the thumb of Westminster, with no control over the economic levers. The demands are straightforward: more money... and independence.  

Jim says he prefers to see MMT “purely as a technical – almost a technical description – with a bit of theory thrown in there, because of course T stands for theory.”  

Steve describes his 15-year journey with MMT. Originally, he focused on the “wonky stuff,” the mechanics of the monetary system.  He came to understand that people aren’t interested until they can see how it relates to their own lives. Today he maintains that MMT should be connected to real-world issues such as class struggle, poverty, student debt, and geopolitical conflicts like the horrific situation in Gaza.  

The episode is a great conversation between two MMT activists. Despite their differences, they find they have much in common. 

Jim Byrne is currently developing an MMT foundation course aimed at beginners and intermediate learners, as well as people who already know about economics but are curious about Modern Monetary Theory. 

Follow his work and the MMT101 podcast at mmt101.substack.com 

@MMT101DotORG  

MMT101 with Jim Byrne

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Remember Labour’s stunning defeat in the 2019 UK general election? When, under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, they won the lowest number of seats since 1935?   

Steve’s guest, Chris Williamson, brings an insider’s view to the story. Chris is a former MP and shadow minister for UK’s Labour Party. He’s currently deputy leader of the Workers Party of Britain, and hosts a show, Palestine Declassified, that has the notable honor of being banned by YouTube. 

Chris describes some strategic missteps within the Labour Party under Corbyn and others. He criticizes the adoption of neoliberal policies, like the fiscal credibility rule, and Corbyn’s ambiguity on Brexit. The Zionist lobby leapt on their support for Palestine; charges of antisemitism hit their target. 

“Unfortunately, Jeremy gave it legs by continually apologizing. And as I said to him at the time, ‘Every apology you make and every concession you give is just feeding the beast and making it stronger. Ultimately they’re going to come for you and destroy this project.’ And they did. I mean, that’s what really killed the Corbyn project. It was the antisemitism thing. I mean, what finished it off. What delivered the coup-de-grace, of course, was the commitment to a second referendum on Brexit.” 

Chris also recounts his own experience as a victim of coordinated attacks which led to his being ousted from the Labour Party.

Throughout the conversation, Steve and Chris continuously pound the MMT message, reminding us that the UK, like the US, is not constrained by lack of money!

Chris Williamson is a former member of Parliament and shadow minister for the Labour Party, currently deputy leader of the Workers Party of Britain. 

@DerbyChrisW on X 

Follow Palestine Declassified https://www.presstv.ir/Section/150108

From Corbyn to Palestine: An MMT Analysis with Chris Williamson

In our 14th episode with Australian economist Bill Mitchell, the conversation focuses on the MMT perspective on international trade. Bill explains what is meant by the statement “imports are a benefit, and exports are a cost,” where it fits into the history of economic thought, and some of its implications.

A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to explaining the crucial shift from the Bretton Woods fixed exchange rate system to the modern system of floating exchange rates after 1971. Bill clarifies that in a floating regime, a currency-issuing government is not financially constrained in its domestic policy by “trade imbalances,” as it was under Bretton Woods.

The episode also touches on bond vigilantes, the IMF, and the shifting status of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency.

William Mitchell is Professor of Economics and Director of the Centre of Full Employment and Equity (CofFEE) at the University of Newcastle, NSW Australia. He is also the Docent Professor of Global Political Economy at the University of Helsinki, Finland, and Guest International Professor at Kyoto University, Japan.

Follow Bill’s work, including his upcoming books, at https://billmitchell.org/blog/

Imports Are A Benefit, Exports Are A Cost? with William Mitchell

This is Bob Hockett’s 12th visit to Macro N Cheese. Back in 2022, in an episode discussing the collapse of the major crypto exchange platform FTX, Bob gave us a useful rule of thumb: 

“The irony is that in every one of these cases there is a clue in the name of the product in question that ought to warn you. If it’s called a junk bond, there’s a reason for that word “junk” being used. And if it’s called a subprime mortgage loan... there’s a reason for that “subprime” term. Similarly with cryptocurrency or crypto assets, one of the most ironical names ever conceived for this kind of product. If the word “crypto” comes into it, then that’s a pretty good tip-off that there’s something non-transparent about it, that there’s something opaque and occluded and difficult to understand.” 

Hmmm... today’s topic is the GENIUS Act. What meaning should we take from that name? 

In this episode, Bob and Steve talk about the newly-passed GENIUS Act whose stated purpose is regulation of the stablecoin industry, bringing the shadow banking industry into the light and out of the, um, shadows.    

The discussion looks at the flawed premise of private stablecoins and the real motives behind the push. Far from preventing instability and fraud, promotion of stablecoin aligns with a libertarian ideology (a la Hayek) that seeks to denationalize currency and privatize money. From a Modern Monetary Theory perspective, the implications are alarming. It merits a discussion of the role of the state.

The GENIUS Act is a dangerous distraction. A Trojan Horse.

Robert C. Hockett is the Edward Cornell Professor of Law at Cornell Law School. His principal teaching, research, and writing interests lie in the fields of organizational, financial, and monetary law and economics 
 
His forthcoming and recent books are: World Money (Yale 2026); A Republic of Producers (Yale 2025); Making Capital Democratic (Polity 2025); Spread the Fed (Palgrave 2025); The Citizens' Ledger (Palgrave 2022); Democratizing Finance (Verso 2022); Money from Nothing (Melville House 2020); Financing the Green New Deal (Palgrave 2020). 
 

@rch371 on X    

The Unstable Genius Act with Bob Hockett

Our friend Daniel Conceição is back for his sixth(!) time on Macro N Cheese. He and Steve share their critique of “neutral” or academic MMT that avoids class analysis. Understanding a government’s monetary capacity is meaningless without using that knowledge as a weapon for class struggle against an oppressive economic system. 

Daniel shares his experiences in Buenos Aires, describing a city with grand public infrastructure (a legacy of Peronism) now filled with poverty due to austerity. He dismantles the myth that President Javier Milei’s austerity policies tamed inflation. Instead, he argues the temporary stabilization was due to a massive, supranational bailout from the IMF, not free-market principles. And when we’re talking about the IMF, we’re seeing a tool of economic imperialism. By creating dollar dependency in developing nations, it forces them into debt servitude and structural adjustments that fully serve global capital, never local populations. 

This brings us back to mainstream economists who lie outright in order to protect the class interests of banks and the oligarchy. They point to how economic rationalizations shift (e.g., after the 2008 crisis and during the pandemic) to always justify saving capital while opposing spending on the public purpose. 

Daniel Conceição is an associate professor at the Institute of Urban and Regional Planning and Research (IPPUR) at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro (UFRJ), and one of the authors of the book “Modern Monetary Theory: The Key to an Economy at the Service of People”. He is also former president of the Institute of Functional Finance for Development Brasil (https://iffdbrasil.org/) 

@stopthelunacy 

Argentina: IMF, MMT, Class Warfare with Daniel Conceição

Our friend, MMT economist Yeva Nersisyan, joins Steve to discuss the struggle to communicate MMT’s core principles in a media landscape filled with misinformation, including from those who should know better. They call some of them out by name and express disappointment when natural allies on the left reject modern monetary theory.  

“At this point, you cannot just be MMT curious. You have to make up your mind, do you want the ‘scarce money’ framework? Is that the way you’re going to view the world? Or do you view it through the MMT framework? Because there is no other option.” 

Yeva and Steve agree that MMT is not a political ideology but a crucial lens for understanding that a monetarily sovereign government is the creator of currency, which means scarcity is serving another purpose – eg, supporting this economic system. 

They talk about government spending during Covid as a missed opportunity to educate. They criticize so-called progressive politicians (hello Bernie!) who, despite likely understanding MMT, refuse to publicly champion its principles. This leads to self-sabotage (perhaps intentionally?) when they claim to argue for progressive policies within a conservative tax-and-spend agenda. Result? Austerity. 

As we regularly try to stress, a correct understanding of MMT is no solution, but rather a tool in building a revolutionary class analysis. 

Dr. Yeva Nersisyan is an associate professor of Economics and Department Chair at Franklin and Marshall College and a research scholar at Levy Economics Institute of Bard College. Professor Nersisyan has published more than 25 journal articles, book chapters, policy notes and policy briefs on the topics of Modern Monetary Theory, fiscal policy, the Green New Deal, and financial instability. She is the editor of the Elgar Companion to Modern Monetary Theory with L. Randall Wray, and her work has appeared in publications such as The Guardian and The Hill. 

Find her work at https://www.levyinstitute.org/people/yeva-nersisyan/

MMT: Why Our Allies Ignore Us with Yeva Nersisyan

This Hedge Fund Insight unpacks how unconventional monetary policies are structurally imbedded in the market microstructure of G7 economies and a mandated resumption of central bank balance sheet expansions become a structural imperative in early 2026.

Hedge Fund Insights #883 - Eternal Reflation & Central Banks Reloading: Over A Quarter Of The Global Economy Is Propped Up By Printed Money

Economic anthropologist Brett Scott, the author of Cloud Money, talks with Steve about libertarianism’s big lie. Or lies – plural.

From a class perspective, libertarianism is largely an ideological tool that protects elite power by promoting a false narrative of individualism and "free" markets. It serves as a smokescreen, concealing the mechanisms of power in a class society. What worse, it’s presented as neutral. As if all citizens are on an equal playing field. Market transactions replace the natural interdependence at the core of societies.

Brett and Steve look at leftwing alternatives, including the potential of mutual credit systems and alternative economies as counter-narratives to mainstream economic structures.

They also discuss libertarians' obsession with commodity money (like gold), which stems directly from their flawed view of society. They see money as a neutral tool for trade between independent agents. In reality, modern money is a credit system—a network of social promises and debts that reflects power dynamics.

Brett Scott is an author, journalist, and activist, who explores the intersections between money systems, finance, and digital technology. He’s the author of The Heretics Guide to Global Finance: Hacking the Future of Money. His latest book is Cloudmoney: Cash, Cards, Crypto, and the War for Our Wallets. Find more of his work at https://alteredstatesof.money/ or on Substack.

@Suitpossum on X

Libertarianism vs. Reality with Brett Scott

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Macroeconomics has never been so ... delish!  Macro and Cheese explores the progressive movement through the lens of Modern Monetary Theory, with hot and irreverent political takes, spotlights in activism, and the razor sharp musings of Real Progressives Founder and host Steve Grumbine.  The cheese will flow as experts come in for a full, four course deep dive into the hot queso. 

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