Audio extracts from life story interviews with ecologists, agricultural scientists, social scientists, naturalists, farmers, farm workers, land owners, farm advisers, research council officers, civil servants, policy makers and officers of environmental organisations.

This collection brings together extracts from four projects: 'An Oral History of British Science', 'An Oral History of Farming, Land Management and Conservation in Post-war Britain' (both supported by the Arcadia Fund), 'Science and Religion: Exploring the Spectrum' (supported by the Templeton Religion Trust) and 'Oral Histories of Environmental Collaboration' (recorded in a partnership between National Life Stories at the British Library and the NERC funded Changing the Environment programme’s ‘Renewing biodiversity through a people-in-nature approach’ (RENEW/NE/W004941/1) at the University of Exeter).

Oral histories of environmental/agricultural research and practice, 1945-present

John Sheail interviewed by Paul Merchant, Oral Histories of Environmental Collaboration, Track 2. © University of Exeter.

Transcript: 

And there was this meeting – there were a number of meetings going on and they were valuable in the sense that I think in those meetings for the first time those primarily interested in the science within the agricultural and conservation lobbies felt able to talk to one another and be heard to be talking without possibly incurring censure from one or the other sides. And of course there was common ground, which was no surprise: Mike Way who was a member of the Wildlife and Toxic Chemicals Section when I was there, Mike Way had come from a wholly agricultural-horticultural background. So there was a common language there if only they would use it. And they had begun to use it by the early eighties. And those meetings – there were painful episodes in them; I do remember one when John Jeffers completely lost his temper at the rubbish statistically that was being spouted by someone when he really should have shut up [laughs] and tolerated it. There were those, but yes, there was beginning to be something of a rapport developing; things were improving let us say. And then by the 1990s Terry and I were attending agricultural conferences run by MAFF and saying our piece. It did improve. But it was a struggle initially.

Image: Pinecone at RENEW Collaborations Workshop. Credit: Angela Cassidy

John Sheail On Beginnings Of Positive Relations Between Ecologists And Scientists

Jim Orson interviewed by Paul Merchant, An Oral History of Farming, Land Management and Conservation in Post-War Britain, British Library, catalogue reference C1828/07/8. © British Library Board.

Transcript: 

Interviewer: We’re now in the mid eighties; I don’t know whether – do you remember farmers asking questions about wildlife and conservation at this time?

No. Not at all, no. It was production orientated. There was not much concern at the time, from what I remember, about pesticides moving to water or issues related to that or, ‘we’ve ploughed up too much land’ or ‘there’s too many winter cereals’ or anything like that at all. No, no.

Image: Pinecone at RENEW Collaborations Workshop. Credit: Angela Cassidy

Jim Orson Remembers Limited Concern Among Farmers In The Mid 1980s

Sue Clifford interviewed by Paul Merchant, Oral Histories of Environmental Collaboration, Track 4. © University of Exeter.

Transcript: 

My suspicion is that we didn’t make much headway with the bigger farmers and the farmers that relied on big grant schemes and thinks like that. I mean maybe I’m just sort of putting these thoughts into the air really. But there were a lot of things going on at the time with us, weren’t there? But I just honestly – [to colleague Angela King] can you remember any particular – getting letters from farmers that were either irate or interested? I think, I mean our tendency was to work out through those organisations that we’ve mentioned and to go to groups – who already knew us – of a different kind, like the local Wildlife Trusts and so on. I mean there were certainly some conversations that one had where farmers were, what’s the word, ‘sad’ about local distinctiveness and how they’d been partly to, without meaning to, eroding what it used to be like. You know conservations about, ‘oh well we used to have ... there used to be ... or what’s his name up there had a....’ and things like that and a kind of feeling for what had gone. But not a feeling that was strong enough to drive them to do something differently because they needed the money.

Image: Pinecone at RENEW Collaborations Workshop. Credit: Angela Cassidy

Sue Clifford On Nature And Extent Of Engagement With Farmers

Judy Ling Wong interviewed by Paul Merchant, Oral Histories of Environmental Collaboration, Track 1. © University of Exeter.

Transcript:

At that time the assumption was that the environmental movement was fine as it was. It was purely white; one hundred percent white. And so we brought in the idea that with funding you need to have a much wider range of what an environmental project is. That is very innovative as well in terms of how we saw things in the beginning. Because it was something that the environmental sector laughed at – because when we asked minorities what they wanted, they wanted things like: grow vegetables, they wanted to have a community garden and so on. And the laughed; they said, ‘well this is not wildlife’, you know. There’s still a big resistance towards this to recognise the process of participation, which is you start where people are. Now this is a nation of gardeners; gardens are a great start. And we proposed that you can teach any environmental principle about a living thing from any plant no matter how modified. Including horticulture and food growing. You can teach all the principles from a food plant. Or from a garden plant. So why do you just bang on about wildness, which is more remote?

Image: Pinecone at RENEW Collaborations Workshop. Credit: Angela Cassidy

Judy Ling Wong On Reaction To The Black Environment Network

John Sheail interviewed by Paul Merchant, Oral Histories of Environmental Collaboration, Track 3. © University of Exeter.

Transcript: 

Institutions got in the way but when individuals were able to get together, talk, discuss, at venues set up by various Grassland Society venues and that sort of thing, yes, exciting ideas developed and came.

Interviewer: What were the institutional barriers, then, that were overcome by the individuals?

Oh well they were there throughout, NERC downwards, in the Nature Conservancy, Establishment Officers and all that sort of thing. So many times I was told in the Ministry of Agriculture, ‘oh, the Minister will be over a barrel if I let you see that’. That was very commonly [the case] – the field drainage maps; I think one or two of the staff in the Ministry got hauled over the coals when the Establishments Officers learnt that we’d be allowed to see them.

Image: Pinecone at RENEW Collaborations Workshop. Credit: Angela Cassidy

John Sheail On Institutional Barriers To Collaboration

Maxwell Ayamba interviewed by Paul Merchant, Oral Histories of Environmental Collaboration, Track 2. © University of Exeter.

Founder of the Sheffield Environment Network, Maxwell Ayamba reflects on relations with mainstream environmental organisations in his work with ethnic minority (global majority) communities in Britain.


Transcript: 
In terms of the environmental organisations like the Wildlife Trusts and those kinds of things, you understand that these have been predominantly white organisations that have practised traditionally along the whole Eurocentric way of nature conservation and recreation. Because honestly speaking, if you understand, communities that come from the developing world see nature as a source of livelihood, because that’s what they’re dependent on [...] and moving here nature is more a creation of leisure, and so, you know, seeing nature on those terms, people are not very, very keen because – not only they are not keen, because they want leisure and recreation, but they cannot afford due to socioeconomic issues. And so, but they – white environmental organisations, or traditional environmental organisations do not understand – they are not culturally sensitive, to put it that way, so they don’t understand that different cultures have different perspectives on the environment and how they relate to the environment. So, my relationship with these environmental organisations has been an uphill task in terms of really trying to reframe the whole narrative of how they work with minoritised community groups to bring them onboard. Because it’s a whole issue to do with organisational culture – the organisational culture would need to be changed but its difficult for them to change the organisational culture because it’s a practice that has been normalised and people working within that particular space are socialised about what they do and their actions have become normalised so they don’t see what they should change that norm […] and therefore it is really difficult to break through and create that difference. 

Image: Pinecone at RENEW Collaborations Workshop. Credit: Angela Cassidy

Maxwell Ayamba on limitations of mainstream environmental organisations

The British Library is the national library of the United Kingdom and one of the world's greatest libraries. We hold over 13 million books, 920,000 journal and newspaper titles, 57 million patents and 6 million sound recordings. Open to everyone, the Library offers events, temporary exhibitions and a Treasures Gallery that displays over 200 items, including Magna Carta, a Gutenberg Bible and lyrics by The Beatles.