65: Carl A. P. Ruck – The Road to Eleusis; The Myth of Christ
Dr. Carl Ruck and I begin our conversation discussing the book The Road to Eleusis, wherein “the classist” Dr. Ruck and coauthors R. Gordon Wasson, “the mycologist,” and Dr. Albert Hoffman, “the chemist,” released a controversial theory that psychoactive entheogenic sacramental ceremonies are often discovered at the root of many religious and spiritual traditions throughout history – and especially within the Greek Eleusinian Mystery tradition that lasted around 2000 years. Throughout the interview we explore subjects including classical sources, interpretation of ancient texts, religion and consciousness, entheogens and psychedelics, the political difficulty of the psychedelic sacrament, academia and censorship, drugs and cult ritual practices, the nature of myth, drugs and addiction, polyethnicity, myth and metaphor, consciousness, and our symbiotic relationship to the earth.  
BIO: 
Carl A.P. Ruck is an authority on the ecstatic rituals of the god Dionysus. With the ethno-mycologist R. Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, he identified the secret psychoactive ingredient in the visionary potion that was drunk by the initiates at the Eleusinian Mystery. In Persephone’s Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion, he proclaimed the centrality of psychoactive sacraments at the very beginnings of religion, employing the neologism “entheogen” to free the topic from the pejorative connotations for words like drug or hallucinogen.
Check out Prof. Ruck’s latest project: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgiwjbne3bj7c24/CarlRuck.mp4
Research Interests: 
Greek drama, Dionysian festivals and rituals, ancient Mystery religions, Orphism, Zoroaster, Mithraism, ancient Christian heretical sects, the role of entheogens in the evolution of human consciousness and religions, Mythology, secret sacraments in medieval and Renaissance art, ancient and medieval eschatology, fairy-tales and European folklore, secret societies and craft guilds, prehistoric rock art, Greek epigraphy, structural linguistics, Latin and Greek grammar, Mesoamerican shamanism.
https://www.bu.edu/classics/faculty-profiles/carl-ruck/
http://wassonwest.com
https://entheomedia.net
CLASS:
http://junghouston.org/program-offering-detail/?id=dfb2b6b6-4eb0-11eb-b993-02dbb43a0b10
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65: Carl A. P. Ruck – The Road to Eleusis; The Myth of Christ

Conversation starts @ 3:01

In this episode, John interviews author, book editor, meditation teacher, and psychotherapist, Dr. Connie Zweig. We begin by exploring Connie’s history with meditation and the value and importance that she places on maintaining a practice in order to be present with the often overwhelming affect of inner work. She cites the necessity of body practice to work with the shadow – the content, traits, memories, and affects that does not fit into the ego-ideal. Why do this? Because, as she states, “Shadow work is the process of development.” We can learn to become aware of these inner figures by personifying them to relate to them in ways that provides us an opportunity to integrate the content rather than act it out. We continue the conversation with the ways in which we identify with the shadow, the structure of the psyche, the origins of the shadow character, the protective aspects of shadow, ego development, family of origin, agism, the body/mind relationship, repression, consequences of shadow repression, identification with roles, becoming an elder, rites of passage, age as our curriculum, life completion, and more.  


Bio: 

Connie Zweig, Ph.D., is a retired therapist, co-author of Meeting the Shadow, Romancing the Shadow, Meeting the Shadow of Spirituality, and the novel, A Moth to the Flame: The Life of Sufi Poet Rumi. Her new book, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul, extends shadow-work into late life and teaches aging as a spiritual practice. Connie has been doing contemplative practices for 50 years. She is a wife and grandmother and was initiated as an Elder by Sage-ing International in 2017. After investing in all these roles, she is practicing the shift from role to soul.

https://conniezweig.com


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74: Connie Zweig – The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul

Conversation starts @ 4:10

This conversation begins by exploring the Dr. Laz’s early history with dreams and lucid dreaming, hypnagogic dreams, why we dream, how to approach dreams and dream work, Tibetan Buddhism and dreaming, lucid dreaming and heightened consciousness, lucid dreaming and ego control, the paranormal and dreaming, symbolic and literal interpretation, archetypes and dreams, process to lucid dream, mysticism and dreams, leaning lucid dreaming, wake induced lucid dreaming, overwhelming images in the dreamscape, psychopomps, inner guides, dream and symbol dictionaries, Jung and dreams, and more. 


Bio: 

Athena Laz is a depth psychologist, dream teacher and 4th generation intuitive. Her debut book, The Alchemy of Your Dreams is out in the world on August 31st 2021.
Having spent over a decade working one-on-one with clients in her practice, she moved online to create her heart’s desire, which translated into www.athenalaz.com. During her time in practice, she worked extensively with trauma victims, as well as couples and individuals from all walks of life. She trained psychoanalytically with a particular interest in depth psychology. Her love has always been towards the transpersonal and symbolic aspects of life. As a natural intuitive and avid lucid dreamer; she feels the psychological aspects of life must be incorporated with the spiritual aspects of Self. To disregard one over the other is to be incomplete, and so, with any artful practice of wellness—we look to that which is wholesome—that which is whole.

https://www.athenalaz.com

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75: Athena Laz –The Alchemy of Your Dreams: A Guide to the Art of Lucid Dreaming and Interpretation

Conversation starts 8:36

We begin by exploring Dr. Kastrup’s history with Jung and philosophers in the 19th and 20th centuries and very quickly move into antiquity through the classicist Peter Kingsley. We discuss the layers of meaning in writing throughout our cultural history, common misunderstandings of texts, positivism of the 19th at 20th century, assumptions within systems of thought and belief, the problem of abstractions and interpretations of reality, Aristotelian logic and conflicts with abstractions, quantum systems, maps and logic, intuitionism, maintaining mystery, Pauli & Jung, synchronicity, meaning, myth and language, & reality as mind. 


Bio: 

Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (ontology, philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (reconfigurable computing, artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). Formulated in detail in many academic papers and books, his ideas have been featured on 'Scientific American,' the 'Institute of Art and Ideas,' the 'Blog of the American Philosophical Association' and 'Big Think,' among others.


https://www.bernardokastrup.com

https://www.essentiafoundation.org

https://www.scientificamerican.com/author/bernardo-kastrup/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeDZCa3VrRQvzBlVR-oVVmA


John’s Workshop:

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79: Bernardo Kastrup – Decoding Jung’s Metaphysics

Conversation starts @ 4:15

The Santo Daime, a syncretistic tradition including parts of indigenous South American religion, African folk traditions, and Catholicism, is a new religion as of the early 20th century. All of this to say that in this conversation, we are invited into a deep dive to explore the nature and formation of religion in general as we look at the specifics of a sacred ayahuasca-based new religious tradition. We begin with Dr. Barnard’s first-person experience within The Santo Daime, which is a real treat given that, as a professor of religious studies, he is quite experienced evaluating, comparing, & exploring religion and religious traditions from the third person, though in Liquid Light we benefit from his history as a comparativist, who analyzes his own tradition. In modern studies we often learn of first-person experiences with ayahuasca – the images, the process, the purging, though we do not often get a glimpse into the religion itself. Today’s conversation explores these dimensions of ayahuasca and more, including the formation of the religion, the institution, the preparation of the sacramental substance, philosophical interpretations, metaphysics, an exploration of religious studies and comparativism, divinity with The Santo Daime, Christ Consciousness, panpsychism, William James, & mystical experiences - we end by briefly questioning the ontological nature of the Other, though read the book and take a deep dive into mediumship and encountering the More. 

Bio: 
G. William (Bill) Barnard is a Professor of Religious Studies, as well as a University Distinguished Teaching Professor, at Southern Methodist University, in Dallas, Texas. His primary areas of research interests are the comparative philosophy of mysticism, religion and the social sciences, contemporary spirituality, religion and healing, and consciousness studies. For over 15 years (including his ongoing study of Portuguese), Professor Barnard has researched the Santo Daime tradition, a syncretistic, entheogenically-based new religious movement that emerged in Brazil in the mid-twentieth century. Professor Barnard is the author of Living Consciousness: The Metaphysical Vision of Henri Bergson as well as Exploring Unseen Worlds: William James and the Philosophy of Mysticism, both published by State University of New York Press. In addition, Professor Barnard is the co-editor of Crossing Boundaries: Essays on the Ethical Status of Mysticism. Professor Barnard has also written many journal articles and book chapters on a variety of topics, such as pedagogy in religious studies, the nature of religious experience, issues in the psychology of religion, and most recently, entheogenic religions and spirituality.


https://liquidlightbook.com

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84: Bill Barnard – Liquid Light: Ayahuasca Spirituality and The Santo Daime Tradition.

Conversation starts @ 5:47

Hermes Trismegistus was believed to be one of the wise men of his time, and a study of his texts reveals, not a general philosophy, but a spiritual path for initiates who seek to achieve gnosis by direct acquaintance of the true nature of reality as we experience it. Dr. Wouter Hanegraaff begins this analysis by guiding us into the four-core dimension of his book, Hermeticism, spirituality, historical imagination, and altered states of knowledge. All of this knowledge circulated through small groups of people beginning in the first century A.D. 

Wouter explains how he landed a position as The University of Amsterdam chair of Hermeticism, and then began to “map” the field of esoterism, the two poles of his academic interests are Hermeticism and esotericism. We discuss the nature of esotericism, rejected forms of knowledge, monotheism and exclusion, the shadow of the collective, Isaac Newton’s heresy, Western exclusion, nonduality, the experiential nature of spiritual practice, Diotima - the female visionary who taught Socrates, drugs in the ancient world, The East and the irrational, academic ideological orientation to Greek as rational, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of antiquity, gender, the spiritual nature of rebirth, life and death, immortality and “The Flip,” shoutout to Miles Neale and Jeff Kripal, music and the cosmos, tones and chanting, initiation, apprenticeship, magic, therapy, and more.   
 
Bio: 

Wouter J. Hanegraaff is Professor of History of Hermetic Philosophy and Related Currents at the University of Amsterdam, the Netherlands, a member of the Royal Dutch Academy of Arts and Sciences, as well as past President and now honorary member of the European Society for the Study of Western Esotericism. Alongside numerous articles, he is the author of New Age Religion and Western Culture:
Esotericism in the Mirror of Secular Thought (Leiden 1996/Albany 1998); Lodovico Lazzarelli (1447-1500): The Hermetic Writings and Related Documents (Tempe 2005; with Ruud M. Bouthoorn); Swedenborg, Oetinger, Kant: Three Perspectives on the Secrets of Heaven (West Chester 2007); Esotericism and the Academy: Rejected
Knowledge in Western Culture (Cambridge 2012); and Western Esotericism: A Guide for the Perplexed (London 2013). He has (co)edited eight collective volumes, including the 1200-page Dictionary of Gnosis and Western Esotericism (Leiden 2005) and Hidden Intercourse: Eros and Sexuality in the History of Western Esotericism
(New York 2011; with Jeffrey J. Kripal). His most recent monograph Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity is forthcoming with Cambridge University Press in 2022. His current projects are focused on the history of consciousness in German Idealism and Romanticism, and the role of the imagination in Western culture.

https://www.wouterjhanegraaff.net

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87: Wouter Hanegraaff – Hermetic Spirituality and The Historical Imagination

Interview begins @ 4:43

The Red Book, also known as Liber Novus, is a manuscript created by Carl Jung between 1914 and 1930. It is a highly personal and symbolic work that documents Jung's exploration of his own psyche through active imagination and dream analysis. The book contains a wealth of material, including paintings and calligraphy, that Jung created as part of his self-exploration, and it is considered to be one of the most important works of Jung's career. The Red Book was not published during Jung's lifetime, but it was eventually edited and published posthumously in 2009. In this episode, Dr. Murray Stein and John discuss the impact of Liber Novus on the study of depth psychology and religion. We begin by exploring the anthology, Jung’s Red Book for Our Time: Searching for Soul under Postmodern Conditions, created and edited by today’s participant, Dr. Stein, and physicist, Dr. Thomas Arzt, who organized over seventy essays contributed to the process by various writers in the community of analytical psychology. We continue with the nature of Jung’s suffering expressed through the process of active imagination, we discuss what Liber Novus has done for the Jungian field, and we continue by identifying the practice of active imagination as the key method for self-knowledge, psychedelics and the unconscious, the ethical obligation following an encounter with the unconscious – whether through dream work, active imagination, psychedelics, incubation, or any other ecstatic experience -  depth psychology, the rational and irrational, alchemy and the unconscious, Dr. Stein explains the process of active imagination, mysteries traditions, Orphic tradition, subtle bodies and synchronicity, the encounter with Soul, and integrating the inferior function.  

Bio: 

Dr. Stein is a graduate of Yale University (B.A. and M.Div.), the University of Chicago (Ph.D.), and the C.G. Jung Institute-Zurich (Diploma). He is a founding member of the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts and of the Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts. He has been the president of the International Association for Analytical Psychology (2001-4), and the President of The International School of Analytical Psychology-Zurich (2008-2012). 


http://murraystein.com

Eranos Symposium 2022: 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXkVRxhi1xeS3Mwomyoszk4VqO8m-jFwV

John’s Esalen Workshop: 

https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-the-red-book-022723

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90: Murray Stein – Jung’s Red Book For Our Time

91: Richard Rohr– The Universal Christ; ego development, forgiveness, & non-dual consciousness

Interview begins @ 5:00

Scholars who investigate paranormal, religious, philosophical, metaphysical, and other similar topics fall under the umbrella of the humanities. However, many professors are hesitant to delve into topics that cannot be explained through empirical data or scientific methods. Cultural historian and scholar of religion at Rice University, Jeff Kripal, has dedicated much of his work to exploring these questions. In his latest book, "The Superhumanities," Kripal argues that the humanities must expand beyond their traditional scope and engage with supernatural and paranormal phenomena that challenge our understanding of what it means to be human. Kripal suggests that the people we revere in the humanities were "weird" and had altered states of consciousness, embodiment, precognitive dreams, out-of-body experiences, and mystical experiences of unity with the cosmos. He argues that these alternate states of consciousness and embodiments were, in fact, the origins of their thinking. To fully understand and appreciate the humanities, Kripal believes we must embrace the strange and eerie in our academic and cultural discussions. In this interview, Kripal discussed his new book and the significance of embracing unconventional phenomena in the humanities. The conversation covers a range of topics, including the fractals of social systems, psychotherapy as a means of adapting to a sick social system, listening to the symbolic communication from experiences of the paranormal, metaphysics and the U.F.O., the beauty of not knowing, Christianity and the paranormal, Christianity as a modernized sociological tribal container, black critical theory, feminist theory, psychoanalytic theory, queer theory, post-colonial theory, & ecocriticism, and gender and the modern world. 

Overall, Kripal's work emphasizes the need for scholars in the humanities to expand their focus beyond empirical data and scientific methods to explore the strange and mysterious phenomena of life. By doing so, we can gain a deeper understanding of what it means to be human and how we can navigate the complexities of the world around us.

Bio: 

Jeffrey J. Kripal is the Associate Dean of the School of Humanities and holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University, where he chaired the Department of Religion for eight years and helped create the GEM Program, a doctoral concentration in the study of Gnosticism, Esotericism, and Mysticism that is the largest program of its kind in the world. He presently helps direct the Center for Theory and Research at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, where he served as Chair of Board from 2015 to 2020. Jeff is the author or co-author of twelve books, eight of which are with The University of Chicago Press. He has also served as the Editor in Chief of the Macmillan Handbook Series on Religion (ten volumes, 2015-2016). He specializes in the study of extreme religious states and the re-visioning of a New Comparativism, particularly as both involve putting “the impossible” back on the academic table again. He is presently working on a three-volume study of paranormal currents in the history of religions and the sciences for The University of Chicago Press, collectively entitled The Super Story.

https://jeffreyjkripal.com

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92: Jeffrey Kripal – The Superhumanities: Historical Precedents, Moral Objections, New Realities.

Interview begins @ 6:17

In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, we delve into the multifaceted world of magic, exploring its neurological, spiritual, and cultural aspects. Dr. Bever, provides insights and expertise throughout our discussion. We begin with the question, "what is magic?" and Dr. Bever offers a definition of magic and shamanism, setting the stage for the rest of the conversation. As we discuss the interplay between magic and popular beliefs, including the rational and irrational, we examine how these shape our understanding of the world. We explore the impact of Descartes's ideas on dreams and dualism, and how they have influenced our worldviews and ways of thinking. Touching on the concept of suppressed knowledge in the context of magic, we delve into how it has been perceived historically. We further investigate the role of alternate states of consciousness in witchcraft trials and the blurred lines between religion and magic. Analyzing the theory of mind from a rationalistic perspective, we discuss how it relates to the controllable aspects of religion. We then examine the value and potential pitfalls associated with the concept of "experience" in religious contexts. Exploring the relationship between power dynamics and the practice of magic in society, we consider the impact of population size on the development and evolution of religious beliefs and practices. We discuss the role of prophets in contemporary religious movements and the challenges they face in today's society. Looking at the resurgence of esotericism and magic in modern times, we inquire into their relevance and significance. Finally, we venture into the world of the paranormal, discussing topics such as poltergeists and the role of narratives in shaping our understanding of truth. 

Bio: 

Edward Bever earned a Ph.D. in History from Princeton University and is Professor of History and Director of the School of Professional Studies at SUNY Old Westbury.  He specializes in the history of magic and witchcraft; is the author of The Realities of Witchcraft and Popular Magic in Early Modern Europe: Culture, Cognition, and Everyday Life (2008) and co-editor of Magic in the Modern World: Strategies of Repression and Legitimization (2017); contributed chapters to the Oxford Handbook of Witchcraft in Early Modern Europe and Colonial America, The Routledge History of Witchcraft, and Emotions in the History of Witchcraft; and published articles on the topics in The Journal of Interdisciplinary History, the Journal of Social History, and Magic, Ritual, and Witchcraft.



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93: Edward Bever – Magic in the Modern World

Interview begins @ 6:02

In this episode of The Sacred Speak podcast, we explore the potential of the Christian church as a sanctuary for psychedelic healing. Our guests, Hunt and Jessica, seek to reconnect the worlds of psychedelics and organized religion, addressing the misinformation that has driven them apart for the past 50 years. They assert that the church must prioritize healing and work to rectify the damage caused by this disconnect.

Throughout our discussion, we delve into the concept of the church as a nurturing environment for fostering profound experiences, self-love, and personal growth through the exploration of one's relationship with their body and the importance of firsthand experiences. We also lay the groundwork for defining a "psychedelic Christian" and how this integration could lead to a more comprehensive understanding of how a divine encounter can be paired with the Christian faith.

Recurring themes in this conversation include social justice within the psychedelic movement, the democratization of psychedelics, the significance of mystical experiences, embracing one's true self within small community groups, the power of honesty and truth in community settings, the church's role in healing, and the experiences of people of color within psychedelic communities. Join us as we examine this thought-provoking and transformative topic.

Bio: 

Hunt Priest is a priest in The Episcopal Church and the founding Executive Director of Ligare: A Christian Psychedelic Society, a non-profit network of Christian leaders educating themselves and those they lead about the intersection of open-hearted Christianity and the Psychedelic renaissance. A participant in a psilocybin study in early 2016, he had two life-changing mystical experiences under the care of a research team. His encounters with psilocybin opened him to the healing and consciousness-raising power of psychedelic medicines and changed the landscape of his work. Hunt believes the healing power of psychedelics should be in the toolkits of all who are healers of bodies, minds, and souls and can’t wait to be part of providing access for legal, safe, and guided experiences in a Christian setting. In April 2021 Hunt took an extended break from full-time parish ministry to expand his priesthood out into the emerging psychedelic landscape.

Jessica Felix Romero has over 16 years of experience in social justice advocacy, organizing, and communications. With a doctorate in conflict analysis and resolution, she integrates holistic system analysis and transformative design to help nonprofits advance social change. She is Vice President & Chief Strategy and Impact Officer at Sojourners, a faith-inspired nonprofit that works with Christians to put their faith into action in the passionate pursuit of social justice, peace, and environmental stewardship. 

Jessica loves all things about food and spirituality — her pioneering doctoral research in El Salvador documents the transformational possibilities of conflict-resolution oriented food systems that feed people and nurture peace. She is a student of somatic writing and practitioner of embodied leadership. Her current work explores the intersections of spirituality, ancestral wisdom, psychedelics, and Christianity. 

www.ligare.org

www.sojo.net

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94: Hunt Priest & Jessica Felix Romero – Ligare: Psychedelic Christians

Interview begins @ 3:53

In this enlightening episode of The Sacred Speaks, host Dr. John Price converses with Dr. Rachel Harris, who shares insights from her latest book, "Swimming in the Sacred: Wisdom from the Psychedelic Underground". Dr. Harris illuminates her interview process with 15 veteran female guides from the psychedelic underground, revealing their enduring commitment to the spiritual over the medicalized use of these compounds. The discussion delves into the reasons these guides remain in the underground despite societal changes and legalization, attributing it to their belief in the greater spiritual and religious value of psychedelics. The disparity between psychotherapy and the spiritually-oriented approach these guides embody is examined, with Dr. Harris emphasizing that the spiritual process stands alone, independent yet not exclusive of therapy. The conversation explores the ontology of the visionary or “unseen others”, often present in psychedelic experiences, the transformative power of psychedelics, the voices of doubly silenced women, the unique bond women share with these medicines, and the relevance of cultural frameworks for the sacred. They also touch on the importance of selecting an ethical guide, concerns about the healer's ethical wellbeing, and the profound link between death and the psychedelic experience, and the importance and nature of integration for psychedelic process. 

Bio: 

Dr. Rachel Harris is a respected psychologist, prolific author, and eminent figure in the realm of psychospiritual development. She spent thirty-five years in private practice, focusing on individuals seeking psychospiritual growth. Rachel has an impressive research career, having received a National Institutes of Health New Investigator's Award and publishing over forty scientific studies in peer-reviewed journals. She has also shared her expertise with Fortune 500 companies. Rachel participated in the 1968 Esalen Residential Program, an intensive six-month meditation and bodywork course. She also studied Structural Awareness, a movement system founded on Dr. Ida Rolf's Structural Integration. This awareness of body consciousness deeply influences her psychotherapeutic approach. In the mid-1980s to early 2000s, Rachel facilitated workshops at esteemed institutions like Omega Institute, NY, and Esalen Institute, CA. She is the author of "Twenty Minute Retreats," which details the exercises she taught in her workshops. A serendipitous encounter with ayahuasca in Costa Rica in 2005 sparked Rachel's interest in the therapeutic potential of this medicine. This led to a three-year research project, culminating in "A Study of Ayahuasca Use in North America," and her influential book "Listening to Ayahuasca: New Hope for Depression, Addiction, PTSD, and Anxiety." She has recently authored "Swimming in the Sacred: Wisdom from the Psychedelic Underground." 

https://www.swimminginthesacred.com
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96: Rachel Harris – Swimming in the Sacred: Wisdom from the Psychedelic Underground

Interview begins @ 3:30

In Episode 97 of The Sacred Speaks, Mary Cosimano begins with the question, "What is suffering?". Renowned for her heart-led approach, Mary aims to connect those she works with to their heart centers, facilitating a deeper understanding of their own experiences. Throughout our discussion, Mary shares her personal encounters with suffering, particularly as a professional in her scientific network and system. She highlights the constraints and limitations inherent within her field's foundational principles, which often hinder expansive thinking and inspiration. Mary also talks about her journey joining the Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research, shedding light on what prepared her for becoming a part of this vibrant community. We further examine the foundation of the psilocybin therapy process at Hopkins, including dosage, preparation, and procedural aspects. Mary emphasizes the importance of setting genuine intentions when individuals choose psychedelics as part of their healing journey. Since its inception, Hopkins has been at the forefront of psychedelic therapies, collaborating closely with the FDA to explore the efficacy of these natural compounds in contexts such as palliative care, treatment-resistant depression, eating disorders, and trauma healing. In this illuminating dialogue, Mary discloses the remarkable benefits of psilocybin interventions, including a notable depression study where subjects witnessed a 50% reduction in treatment-resistant depression symptoms. Our conversation broadens to encompass themes of love, safety, fear, laughter, play, and joy as potent forces for healing and transformation. We conclude with thought-provoking insights into forgiveness and death, rounding off a deeply profound exploration of human suffering and healing.

Bio: 

Mary Cosimano, LMSW, has been with the Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research since 2000 when they began research with psilocybin. She is currently a Psychedelic Session Facilitator and has served as Director of Clinical Services and as a research coordinator. She has been involved with all the psilocybin studies and has conducted over 500 study sessions including Club Drug studies with Salvia Divinorum and Dextromethorphan. Mary has trained post doctorate fellows, faculty, clinicians, and research assistants as guides and taught individual and group meditation to breast cancer patients in a Johns Hopkins research study. She is a teacher and mentor at California Institute to Integral Studies for their Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies and Research (CPTR) certificate program and conducts trainings for therapists in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. In 2003 she started a meditation group for employees in her department. She also has 15 years of experience with direct patient care as a hospice volunteer.

https://hopkinspsychedelic.org

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/research/psychedelics-research.html

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97: Mary Cosimano: Tales of love and heart-centered guidance at Johns Hopkins

Interview begins @ 3:29

Join us for a profound exploration of spiritual emptiness with Thomas Moore. Our conversation traverses the concept of kenosis, a process of spiritual emptying present in both Greek antiquity and Eastern philosophies. We challenge the notion of a 'purpose-driven' life, suggesting instead a life led by openness and spontaneity. Thomas endorses a religious attitude, permitting divine 'angels' to guide us, rather than our ego. We delve into the mystery of God, advocating for an open-minded approach to his ineffable nature. 
Thomas shares his personal journey, which included joining the monastery at a young age, and provides his insights into the image of Christ as it pertains to emptiness. We also discuss soul and spirit cosmology, the parallels between Dionysus and Christ, as well as the influences of thinkers like James Hillman and Carl Jung. We further examine how music can serve as a model for meaning-making, and the significance of 'emptying' a romantic relationship from egoic control. This conversation offers a fresh perspective on life's enigmas, inviting listeners to journey with us through these contemplative mysteries.

Bio: 
Thomas Moore is the author of The Eloquence of Silence and 24 other books about bringing soul to our personal lives and culture, including the #1 New York Times bestseller Care of the Soul. He has been a Catholic monk and university professor and is also a psychotherapist influenced mainly by C. G. Jung and James Hillman. His work brings together spirituality, mythology, depth psychology, and the arts, emphasizing the importance of images and imagination.

https://www.thomasmooresoul.com

Website for The Sacred Speaks: 

http://www.thesacredspeaks.com

Esalen Class: 

https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-jungs-red-book-102323

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98: Thomas Moore – The Eloquence of Silence

Interview begins @ 4:00

In this episode, we explore the enriching journey of Bea Gonzalez, an accomplished novelist, and facilitator of a depth-oriented women's collective. Known for her innate ability to weave stories, Bea intertwines feminine wisdom with a holistic approach to understanding the world, as demonstrated in her widely acclaimed work on sophiacycles.com. Our conversation starts with Bea's early dreams of professional writing, a passion that has blossomed into several published novels with Harper Collins and beyond. We investigate the significance of writing as active imagination, taking cues from Jung's Red Book. Bea presents the intriguing notion that everyone should write a novel, an exercise in self-exploration and a canvas to observe the interactions of our inner personalities. Drawing from Jungian psychology, Bea highlights the value of this framework as a lens to perceive reality. Its influence manifests in her personal growth and resonates powerfully within the groups she leads. As we navigate through the intricate labyrinth of Jung’s Collected Works and post-Jungian writers, Bea emphasizes writing as not merely a craft but a spiritual path. We discuss the potency of storytelling, the exploration of the self through narratives, and the harmonious dance of the masculine and feminine. Engaging with the profound insights of Iain McGilchrist, we uncover the junctures where his work converges with Jung's philosophy. The dialogue evolves to encompass topics such as the inner struggles we all face, the societal impacts of shadow projection in politics, and the significance of the multiplicity of the pantheon versus the social value of a monotheistic god. With her women's groups as a platform for meaningful conversations, Bea eloquently underscores the importance of discussing and writing about these explorations, fostering a vibrant exchange of ideas that spur personal and collective growth. Tune in for a profound exploration into the heart of depth psychology.


Bio: 

Béa Gonzalez is a writer, lecturer, and educator. Her first two novels were published in Canada by HarperCollins and seven other countries [the UK, USA, Spain, Germany, Holland and Serbia]. Her second novel, The Mapmaker's Opera, was adapted into a musical by Kevin Purcell which was featured at the 2014 New York Musical Theatre Festival. She is also the founder of SophiaCycles, a project aimed at teaching metaphorical thinking through an examination of classical works, fairy tales and myths and can be found on YouTube, Twitter and Instagram @sophiacycles. Invocation is her third novel.

https://www.sophiacycles.com

www.esalen.org

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99:  Béa Gonzalez – Invocation and Sophia Cycles

The interview begins @ 6:24

In this enlightening conversation with Dr. James Hollis, renowned Jungian analyst, we dive deep into the psychic underpinnings of our religious traditions and explore the profound concept of the soul. Using Jung's understanding of God as a starting point, we traverse the labyrinth of depth psychology, examining not religious theology but the spiritual essence embedded within our psyche. Dr. Hollis challenges preconceived notions of Western healing approaches, underscoring the importance of addressing long-term developmental tasks contributing to our life's suffering and our existential quest for meaning. We probe into the power of choice, its pivotal role in harmonizing our inner and outer worlds, and the necessity of viewing our lives through a transpersonal lens. In a contemplative reflection on his own life and the influence of Jungian theory, Dr. Hollis encourages us all to engage in a deeper dialogue with our lives, acknowledging the humbling realization that we aren't truly in control. Our discussion pivots to the human propensity for constructing theology, culture, and structures as conduits to the mystery of existence, bearing the psychological imprints of their originators. We navigate the intricate dynamics of resistance within the relationship between ego and the unconscious, emphasizing our responsibility for the choices we make. The existential query is central to our exploration: "What stirs your spirit to evolve and redefine your life?" We touch upon cultural sickness, institutional failure, and the potential for growth within tradition, culminating in a discourse on gender fluidity, the impact of consumerism, and the essence of a truly healing analysis.

This exploration offers listeners the tools to navigate towards their own 'true north', fostering a stronger connection with their intuitive inner life. Join us as we transcend the diversions of popular culture, and dive into the depths of our collective psyche.

Bio: 
James Hollis, Ph. D., was born in Springfield, Illinois, and graduated from Manchester University in 1962 and Drew University in 1967. He taught Humanities 26 years in various colleges and universities before retraining as a Jungian analyst at the Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland (1977-82). He is presently a licensed Jungian analyst in private practice in Washington, D.C. He served as Executive Director of the Jung Educational Center in Houston, Texas for many years and now was Executive Director of the Jung Society of Washington until 2019, and now serves on the JSW Board of Directors. He is a retired Senior Training Analyst for the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts, was first Director of Training of the Philadelphia Jung Institute, and is Vice-President Emeritus of the Philemon Foundation. Additionally, he is a Professor of Jungian Studies for Saybrook University of San Francisco/Houston. 
He lives with his wife Jill, an artist and retired therapist, in Washington, DC. Together they have three living children and eight grand-children. 
He has written a total of eighteen books, which have been translated into Swedish, Russian, German, Spanish, French, Hungarian, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian, Korean, Finnish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Farsi, Japanese, Greek, Chinese, Serbian, Latvian, Ukranian and Czech. 

Website for The Sacred Speaks: 

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100: James Hollis – The Broken Mirror: Refracted Visions of Ourselves

Interview begins @ 4:37

Join your host John Price as he welcomes Miriam Volat, the co-director of The RiverStyx Foundation, co-director of the Indigenous Medicine Conservation Fund, and Executive Director of IPCI. Together, they engage in an eye-opening discussion that bridges the gap between ecology, indigenous traditions, and the Sacred.

Episode Overview
In this episode, we kick things off by learning about The RiverStyx Foundation, discussing its mission and vision for a more connected world. Miriam shares her extensive background in ecology, with a special focus on soil science. She reveals how her work in ecology has been a gateway to explore indigenous traditions, particularly entheogenic healing practices. Miriam argues that a deeper, more direct connection with the Sacred can serve as a catalyst to rekindle our relationship with our immediate environment.

Key Points
•	Ecology as a Lens: Miriam explains how her expertise in soil and ecology serves as a unique lens to appreciate and investigate indigenous practices.
•	The Disconnect: We discuss the alarming separation people experience from their communities, the Earth, and the cultural touchstones that help define them. The absence of methodologies for navigating traumas exacerbates this disconnection.
•	Rethinking Extractive Models: Miriam and John scrutinize modern, extractive approaches to culture, community, and the Earth, highlighting their unsustainability and the damage they've done.
•	Colonialism's Impact: A look into how colonialism rejects the importance of context in understanding our environment, history, and relationships.
•	Cultural Lineage and Connection: Miriam emphasizes the importance of embracing your cultural roots, being aware of your environment, and valuing the connections you currently possess.
•	Consumerism vs Community: Both guests concur on the suffering caused when our inherent need for community and culture is supplanted by consumerism and symptom management.
•	Intellectual Property and Healing: The episode challenges the concept of patenting natural compounds, molecules, and healing processes, arguing that these should be communal rather than proprietary.
•	Death and Compostable Toilets: Borrowing from her background in ecology, Miriam discusses death and environmentally sustainable practices, including compostable toilets.
•	Sacred Medicines and Responsibility: The conversation wraps up with a discussion on how these sacred medicines are not only rites but also responsibilities that make us more aware of what we bring into the world.

Bio: 
NON-PROFIT DIRECTOR
Miriam Volat M.S. Co-Director of Riverstyx Foundation & Indigenous Medicine Conservation Fund,  Executive Director of IPCI, is an educator, organizer, facilitator and ecologist with a passion for soils and nutrient cycles. She works Nationally and Internationally to increase health in all systems. She is dedicated to the biocultural conservation of Peyote and other sacred medicines supported by the IMC Fund, and works in any way she can to ensure the conservation of these medicines for Indigenous communities and their precious ways of life. As a mom, she is fortunate her daughter, Cora, also supports her work.

https://www.riverstyxfoundation.org

https://imc.fund

https://www.ipci.life

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101: Miriam Volat - The RiverStyx Foundation, Ecology, & Indigenous Wisdom

102: Connie Zweig – Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path

Interview begins @ 9:25

Father Richard Rohr explores his experiences with men and men's work. Growing up in a Catholic seminary surrounded by males, he became acutely aware of both the beautiful and neurotic facets of masculinity. His time working in an Albuquerque jail exposed him to the ways men suffer and express their pain, which deepened his understanding and prompted reflection on male-centric theories. This allowed him to better address the unique sufferings faced by men. He emphasizes the importance of healthy male role models for men to emulate, ensuring they engage with the world with integrity. Drawing parallels, he narrates a fascinating tale of aggressive young elephants in Africa that were pacified when elder bull elephants were introduced as positive male influences.
The episode touches on the intricacies of the masculine archetype, navigating the sensitive conversation surrounding masculinity and femininity, and the unification of separated entities. Father Rohr elaborates on the four central male archetypes: King, Warrior, Lover, & Magician. The discussion then shifts to rites of passage, highlighting how certain traditions may miss the essence of such rites. Father Rohr points out that unlike females, who undergo a natural rite of passage with the onset of menstruation, males lack an equivalent biological marker, necessitating cultural rites to signal their transition to manhood.
The conversation examines the significance of rites of passage in balancing the spirit and soul, the importance of shadow dynamics in personal development, and the paradoxical nature of a religion centered around divine incarnation yet suppressive of bodily pleasures. The conversation doesn't shy away from controversial topics, discussing the Catholic Church's history with pedophilia, the systemic issues that might contribute to such atrocities, and the cyclical nature of sin and redemption.
This comprehensive discussion offers invaluable insights into masculinity, spirituality, and the complexities of human nature.
Bio: 
Franciscan friar and ecumenical teacher, Father Richard Rohr bears witness to the deep wisdom of Christian mysticism and traditions of action and contemplation. Founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation, Father Richard teaches how God’s grace guides us to our birthright as beings made of Divine Love. He is the author of numerous books, including The Universal Christ, The Wisdom Pattern, Just This, and Falling Upward.

www.cac.org

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103:  Richard Rohr – The Quest for the Grail

Interview begins @ 4:00

In this episode of "The Sacred Speaks," embark on an exploratory journey with Dr. Stephen Aizenstat, diving into the depths of the inner self. Our dialogue begins with the concept of the inner journey, ignited by curiosity, as seen through the lens of Dr. Aizenstat. A masterful storyteller, he intertwines compelling narratives from both his personal and professional realms, offering a glimpse into his distinctive worldview.
Our conversation reveals the notion of 'genius' residing in each individual, transcending the bounds of the extraordinary. Dr. Aizenstat shares enlightening stories that demonstrate how engaging with our imagination can propel us beyond mere rationality, leading us into a life imbued with soulfulness and fulfillment. We confront the nature of resistance, both within ourselves and in others, discussing how a nondefensive, curious approach can pave the way for deeper understanding and personal growth. Dr. Aizenstat's methodology, marked by compassion and openness, provides a novel perspective on personal evolution. As we delve further, we examine the influence of depth psychology on Dr. Aizenstat's work, especially his interaction with inner figures and the transformative power of genuine curiosity. He champions a co-creative journey with these inner entities, illustrating how exploration and engagement can alleviate discomfort and enrich our inner world. A memorable segment of our discussion highlights Dr. Aizenstat's encounter with Joseph Campbell at Esalen, marking the beginning of a significant friendship. He recounts a fascinating story about Campbell's meeting with George Lucas, a pivotal moment that shaped the narrative of Star Wars, exemplifying the exploration of shadow and archetypes. Additionally, we explore the personification of emotions and the inner world, a central element of Dr. Aizenstat's approach. The episode culminates with an insightful discussion on the four quadrants of his Creative Matrix: Earth, Mind, Machine, and Universe, shedding light on the interplay of these elements in our lives.

https://dreamtending.com

Bio: 
Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder and Chancellor Emeritus of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology and has devoted his life to understanding the profound wisdom and healing power that exist within each of us and has helped thousands of students, individuals, businesses, and organizations through the techniques revealed in The Imagination Matrix. His work centers on the insight that, through our dreams and imagination, we can access limitless creativity, innovation, improved relationships, and, ultimately, our human potential. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia.

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104: Stephen Aizenstat - The Imagination Matrix

105: Becca Tarnas – The Imagination and The Red Books of Tolkien & Jung

Interview begins @ 4:08

In episode 106 of "The Sacred Speaks" podcast, John and guest Lisa Marchiano dive into the complex realms of anger, manipulation, rage, and their inherent values for the feminine in our conversation as we discuss her book, The Vital Spark: Reclaim Your Outlaw Feminine Energies and Find Your Feminine Fire. Our conversation starts with a focus on the feminine wisdom tradition, contrasting the masculine and feminine as psychological principles. These principles are hard to define precisely, and it's essential to clarify our terms to truly understand them.
Lisa brings her clinical experience into the discussion, highlighting the subtle yet significant differences she observes in men and women, despite their underlying similarities. This episode explores the notion that, regardless of gender, we all have access to a spectrum of psychological attributes. Lisa illustrates how it might be easier for individuals to access certain aspects of these masculine or feminine poles, though we all possess the capacity for both. Within her book Lisa uses Lilith, a figure from early Jewish mystical lore, as an emblem of empowered women who challenge cultural and hierarchical norms. This discussion segues into Lisa's book-writing process, which she describes as a journey of self-discovery, particularly in the realm of claiming personal authority. We discuss the concepts of archetypes, developmental theories from Freud to Jung, and the role of archetypes in shaping our psychological expressions, family systems, and early environments. The episode further examines the use of fairy tales in Lisa's book as a means to illustrate these archetypal patterns and universal psychological themes. An intriguing aspect of our dialogue is the concept of the 'worthy opponent' and how gender polarities seek this dynamic in various relationships, be it professional, romantic, or otherwise. These relationships challenge us to express the fullest version of ourselves. We discuss the differences between men and women in sexual dynamics, the operation of these polarities, and the importance of mutuality in sexual relationships.
Lastly, we touch upon the shadow aspect of the feminine, with Lisa providing insightful context and interpretations. This episode is a deep dive into understanding our inner selves and the psychological principles that shape our experiences and interactions. 

Bio: 
Lisa Marchiano is an award-winning author, podcaster, and certified Jungian analyst. Her highly-acclaimed books draw upon the healing wisdom of fairy tales to help women connect more deeply with themselves. Lisa is a host of the popular depth-psychology podcast This Jungian Life. With over 10 million downloads and a loyal following that includes artists, journalists, and celebrities, This Jungian Life is a top podcast in the US in the health and fitness category. Lisa obtained her BA from Brown University. She holds a Master of International Affairs from Columbia University and a Master of Social Work from New York University. She trained at the Inter-regional Society of Jungian Analysts.
In addition to her books, Lisa’s writing has appeared in numerous publications, including the Journal of Analytical Psychology. She is a sought-after speaking and workshop facilitator who has lectured widely both in the US and abroad.


https://lisamarchiano.com

www.spinningstraw.com

https://thisjungianlife.com


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106: Lisa Marchiano - The Vital Spark: Reclaim Your Outlaw Feminine Energies

Interview begins @ 4:06

In this episode Dimitri Mugianis shares his captivating journey from a tumultuous early life marked by drug use as a means to alleviate pain and delve into alternate states of consciousness, to a life-transforming encounter with iboga. This African sacrament catalyzed his confrontation with trauma, miraculously eradicating his heroin dependency post-experience. Our conversation navigates through the realms of alternate states of consciousness, religion, healing, harm reduction, and the significance of art in recovery.
Dimitri highlights the spiritual longing inherent in addiction, resonating with Jung's insights on the quest for the divine. He reflects on the invaluable lessons and spiritual insights gained from his time within the Bwiti community in Gabon, Africa, underscoring the profound impact of music, specifically rock and roll and jazz, in his survival and healing journey. The discussion extends to the power of community, family, art, connection, medicine, and spirituality in fostering healing environments.
We explore Dimitri's transformative work in Harlem, assisting individuals in overcoming opiate addiction through the principles of the Bwiti tradition and his innovative approach to harm reduction. This episode challenges conventional perspectives on addiction treatment, inviting a reevaluation of success beyond mere abstinence. Dimitri's insights into the fetishization of trauma and the creation of the experiential space, Cardea, in New York City, offer a fresh lens on healing and recovery.
Join us as we dissect the modern "medical gaze," its limitations, and how it parallels with the "shaman’s gaze" in its approach to healing. Dimitri's story is a testament to the potential for radical change, advocating for a broader understanding of addiction, treatment, and the essence of healing itself.

Bio: 

Dimitri Mugianis, harm reduction advocate and psychedelic practitioner, musician, writer, and community organizer, became the face of using underground Ibogaine to kick heroin addiction in the United States. He developed a hybrid modality of administration that integrates the ceremonial and musical elements of traditional ibogaine ceremonies with the best safety protocols of Western medicine. His story is the focus of the documentary I’m Dangerous With Love and his work has been documented by The New York Times, The Rolling Stone, This American Life, HBO, and many more. Even though Ibogaine is still prohibited in the United States, it is attracting avid interest from researchers all over the world and becoming accepted among care providers and clinics.
Dimitri has led over five hundred Ibogaine ceremonies and supported numerous individuals with their problematic habits. He’s also performed thousands of ceremonies using sound, art and psychedelics – especially Psilocybin and MDMA – to help individuals break with their psychological suffering and to spark spiritual awakenings.
Immersed in the psychedelic space for the last 20 years, Mugianis is an expert in both the potential and limitations of psychedelic medicines. A respected icon in the field of harm reduction, he co-created a holistic program at New York Harm Reduction Educators (NYHRE), a groundbreaking Harlem-based community organization bringing together acupuncture, ritual, sound meditation, reiki, bodywork and other treatment modalities for people experiencing homelessness, active drug users, sex workers and the formerly incarcerated.
https://www.dimitrimugianis.com

https://cardea.net


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107: Dimitri Mugainis - A Journey Beyond Addiction: Healing, Psychedelics, and Harm Reduction

Interview begins @ 5:58

Annie Lamott and Neal Allen invite us into the heart of their relationship, where creativity, curiosity, and vulnerability intertwine. Annie introduces Neal's latest book, "Better Days: Tame Your Inner Critic," while Neal shares insights into Annie's newest work, "Somehow: Thoughts on Love." As we delve into their dynamic, we're reminded of Annie's infamous KFKD radio – a familiar concept for anyone acquainted with her writings – and how Neal's exploration of the inner critic seamlessly complements Annie's work. Reflecting on the early days of their relationship, Annie and Neal recount moments of openness and vulnerability, testing the waters of acceptance and understanding. Their willingness to confront their deepest wounds and expose them to the world underscores their authenticity and likability. Neal challenges the corrosive nature of identity politics, emphasizing the importance of transcending rigid notions of identity to foster genuine connection. In a candid discussion, Annie shares her experience with cancel culture and the anxiety it breeds in our social landscape. Together, we explore the implications of cancel culture on personal relationships and societal discourse, pondering the importance of genuine communication and compassion. As we journey deeper into their relationship, Annie and Neal offer a masterclass in marriage, highlighting the value of acceptance, curiosity, and patience. They demonstrate how years of spiritual and psychological work pave the way for navigating conflicts with grace and understanding.
Midway through the interview, Annie steps away, allowing Neal and John to explore the realm of the inner critic. Through an active Gestault exercise, Neal provides a firsthand example of confronting the superego and shedding the layers of defensiveness that obscure our true selves. Together, we explore the perception that shame and the superego serve as sufficient motivators for progress, while also examining the divisive nature of identity politics and its impact on our culture. Neal offers insights into the role of defensiveness in protecting against vulnerability, urging us to embrace authenticity over superficiality.


Bio: 

Anne Lamott is the author of twenty books, including the New York Timesbestsellers Help, Thanks, Wow; Dusk, Night, Dawn; Traveling Mercies; and Bird by Bird, as well as seven novels. A recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship and an inductee to the California Hall of Fame and Neal Allen is a spiritual coach, workshop leader, and author who began his transformative journey about ten years ago. Bob Birnbaum,  introduced him to the teachings of notable figures like Fritz Perls, Carl Rogers, and Adyashanti, as well as spiritual practices such as Eckhart Tolle's neo-Buddhism and Hameed Ali's Diamond Approach. His exploration deepened into self-realization, guiding him through phases of shedding personal narratives and societal beliefs, embracing the absurd, and confronting the concept of death, which included volunteering at hospice and dealing with personal loss. These experiences have profoundly shaped his practice and writings, including his books "Shapes of Truth: Discover God Inside You" and "Better Days: Tame Your Inner Critic."

www.shapesoftruth.com

Website for The Sacred Speaks: 

http://www.thesacredspeaks.com

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108: Anne Lamott & Neal Allen – Love and Taming the Inner Critic

Interview begins @ 5:03

In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, we explore the pioneering work of Dr. Ross Ellenhorn, a visionary dedicated to reshaping mental health care. Dr. Ellenhorn introduces us to his unique "hospital without walls," a concept that challenges traditional mental health treatments and seeks to destigmatize the way we approach psychological well-being. Through his innovative psychedelic business, he emphasizes creativity and play as crucial therapeutic tools.
Dr. Ellenhorn shares his personal journey, starting from being labeled as "not normal" by societal standards, and discusses how such labels feed into a detrimental power dynamic that fosters dependence and hopelessness. He critiques the pharmaceutical industry, conventional education systems, and the medicalization of mental health, prompting us to question whether mental health issues are truly "diseases."
The episode explores the limitations of reductive diagnoses and the potential harms of treating mental health with a purely medical approach that overlooks the human element of healing. Dr. Ellenhorn highlights the significance of play in therapy, describing it as a process where rigid experiences of suffering can become malleable and manageable.
Further, Dr. Ellenhorn recounts his personal struggles with learning differences and how these experiences fueled his passion for writing and advocating for a system that embraces playfulness and creativity as essential components of healing.

Bio: 
Dr. Ellenhorn is a pioneer and leader in the development and promotion of community integration services, types of care that serve and empower individuals diagnosed with psychiatric and/or addiction issues while they remain in their own communities and outside institutional settings. 
Trained as a sociologist, psychotherapist and social worker, Ross Ellenhorn, Ph.D., created the first fully operational intensive hospital-diversion and wraparound program in Massachusetts, and went on to establish and lead one of the first public Programs for Assertive Community Treatment
teams in the state. He is the owner and CEO of Ellenhorn, the most robust community-integration program in the United States, which offers services outside of a hospital or residential setting for individuals experiencing addictive behaviors and/or extreme and complex states of mind and mood. Ellenhorn has offices in Boston, New York and Los Angeles.
Dr. Ellenhorn has authored three books on human behavior: “Parasuicidality and Paradox: Breaking Through the Medical Model” (Springer Publishing, 2007) addresses psychiatric hospital recidivism and techniques for diverting hospital use; “How We Change (and Ten Reasons Why We Don’t)” (HarperCollins Publishers, 2020) takes a deep dive into the dynamics that influence all human change; and “Purple Crayons: The Art of Drawing a Life,” (HarperCollins Publishers, 2022) addresses play as a central and vital human activity in our modern times. He has authored numerous articles, gives talks and seminars throughout the country, and provides consultation to mental health agencies, psychiatric hospitals and addiction programs.


https://www.ellenhorn.com
https://cardea.net
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109: Ross Ellenhorn – The Art of Drawing a Life, Play, and the Gift of Being a Human

Interview begins @ 5:18

In this episode, we dive into the compelling journey of Greg Wrenn, author of the ayahuasca eco-memoir Mothership. Greg begins by sharing a poignant excerpt from his book that ties back to an early memory of his mother, illustrating the profound impact of growing up with an emotionally dysregulated parent. His memoir not only explores personal trauma but also the psychodynamics that have shaped his life.
Greg, a former Stegner Fellow and an associate professor at James Madison University, discusses the transformative nature of poetry, suggesting that a poem is not merely read but experienced. This belief mirrors his view on life's most impactful experiences—they may not always be pleasant, but they are transformative.
A central theme of our conversation is the role of psychedelics, particularly ayahuasca, in personal healing and growth. Greg offers insights into current research, highlighting how psychedelics can reopen critical developmental periods, fostering integration, trauma recovery, and creativity. He emphasizes the importance of being mindful about what we "feed" our brain during these malleable times, as the experiences can deeply sculpt our mind and consciousness.
We also critique the modern education system's focus on outcomes over experiences, discussing how this emphasis can hinder deep, meaningful engagement with learning processes. Greg shares how his healing was profoundly influenced by his connections with nature and his experiences with ayahuasca, drawing a powerful link between ecological awareness and personal well-being.

Bio: 
A former Stegner Fellow and Jones Lecturer at Stanford University, Greg Wrenn is the author of ayahuasca eco-memoir Mothership: A Memoir of Wonder and Crisis (Regalo Press 2024), an evidence-based account of his turning to coral reefs and plant medicines to heal from childhood trauma, and Centaur (U of Wisconsin Press 2013), which National Book Award-winning poet Terrance Hayes awarded the Brittingham Prize. 

Greg's work has appeared or is forthcoming in HuffPost, The New Republic, Al Jazeera, The Rumpus, LitHub, Writer's Digest, Kenyon Review, New England Review, The Iowa Review, and elsewhere. He has received awards and fellowships from the James Merrill House, the Bread Loaf Writers’ Conference, the Vermont Studio Center, the Poetry Society of America, the Hermitage Artist Retreat, the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and the Spiro Arts Center.

As an associate English professor at James Madison University, he teaches creative nonfiction, poetry, and environmental literature. He also teaches in the low-residency MFA Program at Bennington Writing Seminars and in the Memoir Certificate Program at Stanford Continuing Studies. He was educated at Harvard University and Washington University in St. Louis.

Greg is currently sending out Homesick, his second poetry collection. A student of ayahuasca since 2019, he is a trained yoga teacher and a PADI Advanced Open Water diver, having explored coral reefs around the world for over 25 years. He and his husband live in the mountains of Virginia, the ancestral land of the Manahoac and Monacan people.

www.gregwrenn.com

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110: Greg Wrenn – Mothership: A Journey of Identity, Ecology, & Ayahuasca

111: Ellen Petry Leanse – The Brain and Beyond

This podcast episode explores the stories that help us understand our reality, our place in that reality, and how humans both cling to and challenge these same stories. Jeffrey Kripal has been a keeper of many extraordinary stories, and as a professor of religion, he is positioned to question the stories that we believe serve us, but the reality is that we often serve the story. This conversation is anchored in Dr. Kripal’s newest book, The Flip, wherein he challenges many of the assumptions of materialist science and posits that the sciences are not wrong, but that they are incomplete and therefore we need a change in our worldview. His arguments are well articulated and well informed by many scientists, including neuroscientists and physicists, who have, as a result of their research into reality, moved away from the materialist worldview into an approach to reality that chips away at many of the assumptions in which many of us have been educated – for example, the fact that we don’t really know what matter and consciousness are in the first place. Really. 
From Jeff’s book: 
A “flip,” writes Jeffrey J. Kripal, is “a reversal of perspective,””a new real,” often born of an extreme, life-changing experience. The Flip is Kripal’s ambitious, visionary program for unifying the sciences and the humanities to expand our minds, open our hearts, and negotiate a peaceful resolution to the culture wars. Combining accounts of rationalists’ spiritual awakenings and consciousness explorations by philosophers, neuroscientists, and mystics within a framework of history of science and religion, Kripal compellingly signals a path to mending our fractured world. 
Bio:
Jeffrey J. Kripal holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University, where he chaired the Department of Religion for eight years and helped create the GEM Program, a doctoral concentration in the study of Gnosticism, Esotericism, and Mysticism that is the largest program of its kind in the world. He is the Associate Director of the Center for Theory and Research at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, where he also serves as Chair of the Board. Jeff is the author of numerous books, seven of which are with The University of Chicago Press, including, most recently a memoir-manifesto entitled Secret Body: Erotic and Esoteric Currents in the History of Religions(Chicago, 2017). He has also served as the Editor-in-Chief of the Macmillan Handbook Series on Religion (ten volumes, 2015-2016). He specializes in the study of extreme religious states and the re-visioning of a New Comparativism, particularly as both involve putting “the impossible” back on the academic table again. He is presently working on a three-volume study of paranormal currents in the history of religions and the sciences for The University of Chicago Press, collectively entitled The Super Story.
http://jeffreyjkripal.com
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38: The Flip. A conversation with Jeffrey J. Kripal

In this episode, John interviews Brian Muraresku, author of New York Times Bestseller, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of The Religion with No Name. On an average day back in 2007, Muraresku’s life changed after reading the Economist’s article reviewing the research underway at Johns Hopkins investigating the clinical use of psilocybin mushrooms. Thus, Brian’s twelve-year study of a controversial theory was born. The theory positions psychedelics at the root of early the Christian Eucharist, and beyond that, at the root of religion as a whole. Through this conversation, Brian and John explore the psychedelic theory of religion, “graveyard beer” - a psychedelic brew used as a sacrament to commune with the dead 10,000 years ago, the mysteries of Eleusis – a Greek religious, esoteric tradition, literalism, the need for all of us to study the classics, healthy skepticism, Christ as a Dionysus figure, the relationship between blood and wine, the kingdom of heaven (not in the afterlife, but present day), the technology and science that is providing insight into our religious traditions, and the powers that seek to erase those histories – spoiler alert: for the Roman Catholic Church this was women and drugs. Referencing The Immortality Key, Jeff Kripal writes, “Buckle up tight, Toto. You were never in Kansas. It’s Oz everywhere and always."
BRIAN C. MURARESKU graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Brown University with a degree in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit. As an alumnus of Georgetown Law and a member of the New York Bar, he has been practicing law internationally for fifteen years. He lives outside Washington D.C. with his wife and two daughters. 
 In 2016, Muraresku became the founding executive director of Doctors for Cannabis Regulation. Their work has been featured on CNN and ESPN, as well as The Washington Post and San Francisco Chronicle. In arbitration with the NFL in 2018, Muraresku represented the first professional athlete in the United States to seek a therapeutic use exemption for cannabis. 
The Immortality Key is his debut book.
https://www.brianmuraresku.com/author
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61: Brian Muraresku - The Immortality Key

This is one of the most controversial podcasts in the history of The Sacred Speaks; though controversy is familiar territory for the participant, Dr. DAC Hillman. Dr. Hillman began his doctoral research in the middle of a controversy that threatened him with a conflict between the choice of censuring his research to graduate with his doctorate or not pass. So, he did what any self-respecting doctoral student would do - remove the controversial work from his dissertation, and the write a book about it. The Chemical Muse is the book whose central thesis circulates within and through the heart of the “offensive” content – the recreational and sacred use of drugs in classical antiquity. Though his advisors denied that people in classical antiquity used drugs both recreationally and within religious rites, the evidence currently underway confirms his censured thesis. But he did not stop there. Dr. Hillman’s research investigates practices by religious Mystery cults in the classic age who participated in the unimaginable, by modern standards. Have you ever imagined that the human body could or would be used as a pharmacy to produce antidotes to drugs and venoms administered to initiates of sacred Mysteries traditions; and that without those human produced antidotes, the initiate’s body would begin to fail? What if the bodies of both adults and children were used in such ways? Dr. Hillman and Dr. Price discuss ancient religion, translating ancient texts, hidden language, image, magic, witches, sexual abuse of children, Jesus and St. John, obscured practices within ancient Mystery cults, Magi, the body as pharmacy, Gnostics, heresy, censorship by those in power, homosexuality, the patriarchy, priestesses, myth, & Magic.  
Bio:
Dr. DC Ammon Hillman earned his MS in Bacteriology and Ph.D. in Classics from the University of Wisconsin Madison, where he specialized in Ancient Greek and Roman medicine and pharmacy.  His first book, The Chemical Muse, was published with St. Martin’s Press immediately after his dissertation committee forced him to delete all references to recreational drugs from his thesis.  Dr. Hillman also wrote Original Sin, a work about the use of drug-induced child rape in early Christian ritual.   The publication of The Chemical Muse inspired the production of a lengthy History Chanel documentary on the history of drug use in the ancient world. After an official inquiry by the Catholic Church into allegations of demon possession, Dr. Hillman was fired from St. Mary’s University of Minnesota.  He continues to write about the use of drugs in ancient mystery cults and tutors ancient Greek online.

https://www.amazon.com/Chemical-Muse-Roots-Western-Civilization/dp/0312352492
CLASS:
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63: Ammon Hillman: Jesus, Sex, Drugs, & Mystery Cults of Antiquity

Join depth psychotherapist and Jungian scholar, John Price, in an exploration of extraordinary stories and phenomena that lurk beneath the surface of normal and everyday life. Listen in as John interviews experts, dilettantes, sinners, and saints to explore their professional and personal perspective on the underlying purpose of the mysteries which lurk within the seemingly mundane nature of day-to-day life. 

John received his Master’s degree in clinical psychology and his Doctorate degree in Jungian psychology. He is in private practice and is also on the faculty of The Jung Center and The University of St. Thomas, both located in Houston, Texas. He lectures and teaches classes in subjects ranging from Parenting and Consciousness to Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll. 

This podcast seeks to accept a challenge laid out by Carl Jung:  to explore the universal human feelings of emotional incompleteness, spiritual curiosity and one’s related search for wholeness and meaning. Interviews commence with the belief that, by engaging in this exploration, we can learn more about the psyche, consciousness, spirituality, philosophy and the profound, though often hidden, meaning of the day-to-day lives we lead (or which will lead us, if we aren’t watchful).

Come along as John follows people into bars, universities, places of worship, financial districts and the home. He finds each context equally able to provide a setting for this worthy search and also that, through this process, we have an opportunity to come to know each other and ourselves much more deeply.

Popular tracks by The Sacred Speaks: Hosted by John Price