My friend David Woods (early 60’s) and his niece Bekah Clements (married mother of three, HR Director) share their story.   David (who served a mission in Switzerland) talks about being gay in Utah, moving away from Utah and leaving the Church, developing a successful multi-faceted career, returning to the Church after being out for several decades, moving back to Utah (where he is currently serving as a temple worker and ward clerk).  It’s a moving and remarkable story.
 
David talks about the difficult road of being gay and LDS and how he did his best to move forward.   Bekah talks about her uncle David and how we can better support and love family members regardless of their church activity.   This podcast is a beautiful love story. 
 
David and I learn—in real time during the podcast—that we crossed paths over 30 years ago.  
 
Bekah, who is a Relief Society teacher in her ward, shares this powerful statement about the need for everyone in our congregations.
 
"For our boat to swing in unison we need you if you have gay or straight children. We need working women and full-time homemakers. We need women with children, those coping with the pain of infertility, and those that will not have children in this life. We need you if you are married, single, divorced, or widowed. We need those who are depressed, those who deal with crippling anxiety as well as those who can lift the burden of those in the pit of despair. We want those who have a temple recommend, those that have never had a recommend, and those who are working to get to a place where they can renew their recommend. We need introverts just as much as we need extroverts in this boat. Those with strong testimonies, wavering testimonies, and those who have never gained a testimony belong in our boat. There is a seat in the boat for converts, investigators, and those who come from pioneer stock. We need those dealing with crippling illnesses as much as we need those in perfect health. We need women of all colors, ethnicities, sexual orientations, and political affiliations. If you can fight the fight we need you as much as those who can make peace. We need those whose husbands struggle with pornography addiction. We need you if you are overweight or stick thin. If you are suffering with substance abuse or can be the support system for someone who is, we need you on our team. We need those that cook and bake as well as those who support Door Dash. We need you if your husband is a righteous active priesthood holder, an inactive priesthood holder, or does not hold the priesthood at all. We need those with a million dollars in the bank and those who are living paycheck to paycheck. We need those who want to be in the boat as well as those who don’t. (from her FB post:  https://www.facebook.com/rebekah.w.clements/posts/10158824393103810)
 
Thank you David and Bekah for being on the podcast. You are two of my heroes! Your insights bring us healing and together as the same human family.

** Please Check Out My New Book At: ** 

Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints 

Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

Episode 404: David Woods(Gay Latter-Day Saint) and his niece Bekah Clements (Ally)

My friend Tony Fieldson, who was on Episode 359, shares 10 keys for responding to your loved one’s questions or faith transition (see Tony’s video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm3visvgAFk). 
 
Tony also talks about The Restoration Table Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/720024265292786) and its goals to implement these 10 keys among its members (comprised of active Latter-day Saints, to those unsure about their future, to former Latter-day Saints).   No one in this group is trying to pull others to their place--rather working to create more understanding and find common ground.
 
Thank you Tony for your great work to bring more understanding, reduce fear and bring more understanding.   I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast.

Episode 414: Tony Fieldson, Building Bridges between Active LDS and Former LDS

My friends Dason and Taylor join us to share principles about how to keep relationships together when one goes through a faith crisis/transition.   Dason and Taylor were friends growing up in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada and both served missions.  After they both got married and started families, they lost contact until Dason’s Facebook post in 2019 about this faith transition.   Taylor reached out to Dason with a desire to validate Dason's experiences/concerns, as well as share how he (Taylor) had reconciled some of the complex issues he had also encountered with church history/doctrines. After some bumps in the road and honest communication, they learned to accept and support each other in their respective journeys without an agenda to pull one to their way of seeing things.  They report how their friendship is now closer than ever.
 I believe our Heavenly Parents are pleased when we find ways to reduce divisiveness, stop pointing fingers, and love (instead of judge) others.   Where we learn to “achieve greater unity as we foster an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity” and “unity and diversity are not opposites” as taught by Elder Quentin Cook in October 2020 General Conference.
Dason and Taylor teach us how to do this in a real-life situation.   Dason and Taylor are also admins in the Facebook Group called “The Restoration Table” (https://www.facebook.com/groups/720024265292786 where current and former church members are working together to better understand and support each other (see Episode 414 for more).
 Thank you Dason and Taylor for being on the podcast and your good work to bring us together

Episode 415: Dason Harker (former LDS)  and Taylor Smith (active/believing LDS)

My friend Connor Berg (grew up in South Weber, Served a mission in the Jacksonville Florida Mission, currently at Utah State) shares his journey. Connor talks about growing up and learning he is gay in a world that makes it difficult to be gay.  That led to years of shame, self-harm and depression. Connor eventually came out to his family (very supportive) which led to a path of therapy, hope and healing.   Connor talks about dating a boy during his senior year and then deciding to serve a mission. Connor talks about his mission and better learning how to receive personal revelation and bring others to Christ.
 
Connor talks about returning from his mission and trying to navigate his future. He talks about dating men, feeling hope and peace, and now feeling open to remaining single or possibly marrying a woman.  Connor helps us understand how to seek for personal revelation and honor other’s personal revelation. This is one of the best podcasts I’ve done on the power and importance of personal revelation and honoring each LGBTQ Latter-day Saint’s journey. 
 
If you are in a dark place as a LGBTQ Latter-day Saints (or really in any way), please listen to Connor.  He will give you hope for your future and help you know of your Heavenly Parents love for you. Thank you Connor for being on the podcast. You are a great man with a wonderful future. 
 
** Please Check Out My New Book At: **
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

Episode 416: Connor Berg, RM, Age 22, Gay Latter-day Saint

My friend Drew Young (who was on episodes 276 and 325) joins us to talk about his new book called “Stand Guard at the Door of Your Mind” which is available for pre-order at Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Stand-Guard-Door-Your-Mind/dp/B0933GP1RY/). In the book Drew discusses many topics including suicide, porn, mental heath and bullying.
 
In our podcast Drew opens up and enduring multi years of bullying and the pain this created in his life. Drew invites us a parents and local leaders to teach that bullying is wrong and to active condemn it when we see bullying occurring. If you are currently being bullied or have been bullied, Drew’s story will help you.  
 
Drew also does mental health/porn/life coaching and would love to help you or a loved one. If you’d like to connect with Drew you can find him on Facebook at facebook.com/mrdrewyoung1 and IG @mrdrewbyoung
 
Thank you Drew for being on the podcast and your life work to help and heal others. You are a great man with a wonderful family—a hero to me and many others!

Episode 419: Drew Young, LDS Author, New Book

My friend Dallas Campbell shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint.   I became aware of Dallas from his moving Instagram coming out post www.instagram.com/tv/CNTnG5thfbW

Dallas talks about knowing he is gay from a young age, some difficult times in high school, serving a wonderful mission in Guatemala, testimony of the Gospel, trying to date women, and receiving personal revelation he needed to come out.   
 
Dallas talks about what helped him to finally come out; the great support he is receiving from family, friends and Ward members; advice for those who are closeted; and his feelings about his future.  Dallas also talks about his strong relationship with his Heavenly Father and the Savior to bring hope and healing. 
 
Thank you for being on the podcast Dallas. Your story is needed and moving. Thank you for being a light and bringing hope to others. You are a great man with a bright future. You can reach Dallas on IG @dallasmcampbell

** Please Check Out My New Book At: ** 

Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints 

Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

Episode 417: Dallas Campbell, RM, Age 21, Gay Latter-day Saint

My friends Bree and Kit share their story as a couple with Bree’s gender incongruence/gender dysphoria.   Bree talks about the shame, guilt and fear of 40+ years dealing with this and then eventually coming out to Kit.   Kit and Bree talk about how their marriage is now even stronger and how they are moving forward.   Bree talks about what it is like to deal with gender incongruence and the relief, healing of being more authentic.  Bree talks about remaining an active Latter-day Saint and a recent Stake Leader Training where Bree spoke about being transgender and how to better minister to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
 
Bree is on the Board at NorthStar (see https://www.northstarlds.org/bree-bruce) and talks about the healing role of NorthStar.
 
Thank you Bree and Kit for being on the podcast and sharing your story.  You help all of us to better understand that gender incongruence is real and how we can better support—and better see the contribution of transgender Latter-day Saints.

** Please Check Out My New Book At: ** 

Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints 

Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

Episode 418: Bree and Kit, Married LDS Couple of 40+ Years, Bree’s Gender Incongruence

My friend Josh Pedersen, who came out as gay at 21 following his successful LDS mission in England, talks about his Kickstarter where you can pre-order his new booked called “OUT, NOT IN!”  Josh, who is a full time Professor of Design, wrote the book to help LGBTQ people struggling to find their voice come out, and also to their families and close friends to gain a more empathetic understanding. It is a reminder that LOVE - between parent and child, best friends, and family friends is the greatest gift of all. No sides, just love.
 
You can find "OUT, NOT IN!",  at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshpedersen/out-not-in-an-illustrated-lgbtq-book. Or by going to his Instagram @joshpedersen and using the link in his bio. To make this book a reality, they need to make their goal by July 6th. I encourage everyone to pre-order a copy and donate to this worthy and needed cause, not only will you be getting a copy of the book you'll be helping get 2 copies into libraries and public schools in Utah. 
 
Thank you Josh for being on the podcast and sharing your story.   You are a great man, with a huge heart, and a mission to help heal and bring us together.

Episode 420: Josh Pedersen, Gay, Author “OUT, NOT IN!”

My friend Daryl Austin is a journalist based in Utah.  His work has appeared in National Geographic, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today and The New York Times.  On the podcast, Daryl talks about several of his articles to help us better understand social issues, reduce divisiveness and the reasons to celebrate our differences.  
 
Here are links to the articles discussed:
 
Deseret News: 
www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/5/28/22457992/disneys-wokeness-beats-wickedness-conservative-christian-boycott

The Washington Post: 
www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/06/06/uss-indianapolis-mcvay-hashimoto/

NBC News: 
www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/george-floyd-s-death-has-be-tipping-point-white-people-ncna1229181

The Atlantic: 
www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/03/psychology-of-silent-treatment-abuse/618411/
You can connect with Daryl on Twitter at @darylaustinUT
 
Thank you Daryl for being on the podcast and your national voice to brings stories forward to help us be better.   You are doing important and needed work!

Episode 421: Daryl Austin, Latter-Day Saint, Noted Writer

My friend Tate LeBaron (active LDS, in his late 20s) shares the day four years ago when he almost died by suicide and what helped him out of that hopeless and dark place.   

Tate starts the podcast by reading a Facebook post from May 2021 (https://www.facebook.com/tate.lebaron/posts/10159058075777432).    

Tate also bravely shares about this battle with pornography and how that came into his life and what steps he took to remove it from his life.  
 
If you are working to solve porn, feel you have no worth, are suicidal and have feel everyone would be better off with out you, PLEASE listen to the podcast.  Tate has been there.  He can give you hope, tools, and feel the love from our Heavenly Parents to move forward in your life and have hope that your best days are ahead of you.    

You are also welcome to read my Ensign article about solving pornography (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use).
 
Thank you Tate for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story which is helping so many have hope for their future.   You can reach Tate at wavesofawareness@outlook.com

Episode 422: Tate LeBaron, Married Father of Three, Nearly Died by Suicide, Solving Porn

My friend Karim Lazarus (age 50, living in Baltimore) vulnerably shares his life story. Karim shares growing up in a single-parent home, being sexually abused (which he shares did not make him gay), finding his home in a military high school in Virginia and attending the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs where he joined the Church.  That led to Karim, after one year in the Church, courageously serving a mission in the France Bordeaux Mission under President Neil L. Anderson which was a great experience.  After his mission, Karim returned to Academy but had some difficult church experiences that ultimately led to him step away.
 
From 2003 through 2019, Karim was not active in the Church and was in relationships with men—including a deeply fulfilling relationship that ended a couple years ago.  Karim always maintained an excellent relationship with Heavenly Father and our Savior and felt their love and acceptance.  Karim, even while out of the Church, read conference talks and was aware of general Church direction---especially on LGBTQ issues. 
 
Over the past few years, Karim sensed a better tone from the Church towards its LGBTQ members and felt a desire to return to the Church.  He eventually reached out to his Bishop in Baltimore and told him his life story.  His Bishop responded with no shame--but rather with love, compassion and acceptance.  Karim now holds a temple recommend and has Stake and Ward callings.
 
Thank you Karim for the being on the podcast and sharing your story.   Respect for being so vulnerable and honest.   Thanks for your military service.   Your story will help so many.

** Please Check Out My New Book At: ** 

Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints 

Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

Episode 423: Karim Lazarus, Convert, Gay, Out of the Church for 15+ Years, Returned in 2020

Welcome to our podcast!   My name is Richard Ostler (twitter:  twitter.com/Papa_Ostler; FB: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5; IG: instagram.com/papa_ostler/) and am a native of Salt Lake City.  

I am the author of "Listen Learn and Love:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) and Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints)

I am the author of two recent Ensign articles on ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin
and ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use

I have degrees from the University of Utah and Brigham Young University (business).  I married my best friend and eternal companion Sheila Juergens of Houston, Texas in 1990 and we are the parents of six children and several grandchildren and live near Cottonwood High School in Salt Lake City.   I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.

The name ‘Papa Ostler’ resulting from being introduced to Twitter by my High School age son Matt in 2010. I wanted the high school age youth to know I wasn’t their age as I interacted with them … hence the name Papa Ostler.

I served as a YSA Bishop in the West Valley City/Magna area of Salt Lake (released in 2016) and met some of the finest people I will ever know. In addition to meeting with wonderful active members of my Ward, I reached out and connected via social media (mostly via the private messaging features of FB and Twitter) with many of our inactive members and their non-member friends. Over time, many felt comfortable meeting with me and sharing their stories. Through hundreds of interviews and ‘listening to understand’, I was able to ‘see’ the church from the eyes of those on the outside.  Many feel the church is their ‘spiritual home’ but feel uncomfortable attending for a variety of reasons such as work-in-progress testimonies, concerns about church history, feeling unworthy because of past or current sin, don't fit the cultural mold, role of women, are LGBTQ and/or feel God's LGBTQ childen should be more welcomed in our congregations, etc.

This podcast is designed to 'Have a Conversation' about some of the more complicated issues in our church to help all of us 'listen, learn and love' so we can minister in a more effective way to all of Heavenly Father’s children.   

Most podcasts will be from our LDS LGBTQ friends to give them voice so we can better understand their road, touch their cross, learn from them, and minister to them as directed by President M. Russell Ballard when he said "We need to listen to and understand what our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling and experiencing. Certainly, we must do better than we have done in the past so that all members feel they have a spiritual home where their brothers and sisters love them and where they have a place to worship and serve the Lord(Nov 2017 BYU Devotional)."   Some podcasts will be from LGBTQ allies sharing their experiences and how to be helpful.  

Other podcasts will be from guests talking about other complicated topics such as mental health, returning from a mission early, overcoming sin, and faith challenges.

Are podcast are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

Thank you for joining us.   You can't donate to this podcast.  There are no sponsors.   But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening.

With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler  ❤
richard@ostlergroup.com
*I will respond to your e-mails*

Episode 404: David Woods(Gay Latter-Day Saint) and his niece Bekah Clements (Ally)

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