My friends Kate Kendrick (she/her) and her non-binary child Morgan (they/them) join us to share their story.  Kate, who is no longer active LDS, joins us to talk about her journey to become an LGBTQ ally and then fully love and accept her sixteen-year-old non-binary/pansexual child who goes by the pseudonym "Morgan." (who is age 16). It is a beautiful family love story. Kate offers helpful principles and perspective for parents to love and support their queer children.
 
Kate also talks about her decision to no longer participate in the Church and what we can do to build bridges of understanding between those in the Church and those who have left the Church.   Kate is not asking other people to leave the Church—rather, she is suggesting what we can do to bring both parties together as members of the same human family.   
 
Morgan, who is wise beyond their years, talks about what gives them hope and shares their advice to queer people who have less more. struggle with those who don't accept their sexuality/gender identity and/or are feeling suicidal.    
 
Thank you, Kate and Morgan, for being on the podcast. Your story helps us learn how to better support others.  
 
Links:  TikTok Page: @Midlife Exmo Momma -- Please note that, though Kate truly makes an effort to build bridges between members and former members of the Church, some content may not feel appropriate for those seeking to build their testimony of the Church. Please use discretion when watching her videos.

Episode 755: Kate Kendrick and her non-binary child Morgan

My friend Hannah Russell (married mother of three, PhD, lives in Cincinnati, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to share her story of being asexual out of a desire to help others not feel alone.   Hannah starts realizing she is different and falsely concluding “I am not a divine child of Heavenly Parents” because I don’t have any sexual interest.    Hannah talks about how being asexual is a real thing and there isn’t some backstory “confusing” Hannah to falsely make this conclusion.
 
Hannah talks about learning more about herself at BYU and dating.   Hannah is very brave—and without shame—in sharing her feelings about not wanting to be sexually intimate.   Hannah talks about getting on with her life (after a broken off engagement) and getting her PhD in Pathobiology and Molecular Medicine.   Hannah talks about meeting her husband John and opening up to him about being asexual and how they navigated that road together and decided to get married and start a family.    Hannah talks about how their marriage—a beautiful love story—is based on communication and consent.
 
I learned so much from Hannah story about how to better understand and support my asexual friends, and principles to create a stronger marriage and family.    Thank you, Hannah, for your courage to share your story so others don’t feel alone and all are welcome and needed as we create Zion.   You are awesome!
 
Links:
 
Hannah’s Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/hannah.russell.1428
 
Facebook Group to Better Support LGBTQ Latter-Day Saints:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 756: Hannah Russell, Asexual Latter-day Saint

My friend Haymitch St. Stephen (BYU degree, Stanford graduate degree, mid 30s, SLC native, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about his new book called “Friend of the Devil:  A Story of Mental Health, Mistakes, and Self-Forgiveness”.   This book is the story of Haymitch’s lifelong friend Cameron White, who—at age 17 in 2007—was the drunken driver of a car that killed four members of a Salt Lake City family (Michelle Williams and her unborn baby, her son Ben, and daughter Anna). Michelle’s husband Chris Willams (and a son) survived the accident. Chris wrote about this experience in his book called “Let It Go”.
 
Haymitch, working closely with Cameron White for 6 years, writes the book with insights from Cameron’s perspective of his long journey to find peace, hope, and self-forgiveness.   It is a powerful story realizing the life-altering/shattering impact on the Williams family, spending time in jail, meeting Chris, and working to find hope and self-forgiveness—even when he doesn’t feel he deserves it.   
 
Haymitch, a gifted creative writer and mindful/spiritual big thinker, masterfully weaves in teachings from others (Jesus, Lisa Miller, Thomas McConkie, Adam Miller) to this real-life story to create hope, peace and healing for everyone that seeks to forgive themselves.   It is a book that is helpful to all of us to find peace and joy in the realities of an often wounding world.
 
I was so moved reading this book and listening to Haymitch.   This is a powerful book that I encourage everyone to read.    Thank you Haymitch (and Chris and Cameron) for sharing this story to help bring us together as the same human family.   
 
Links:
 
Order Haymitch’s book:   www.stillpoint.life
 
Learn about the June 7, 2024 book launch event:   www.stillpoint.life
 
Contact Haymitch:  www.stillpoint.life
 
Chris Williams “Let It Go” book:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1609071271

Episode 757:  Haymitch St. Stephen,  New Book about Forgiveness (Ourselves and Others)

This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Jaci Wightman, who shares her compelling story of recovery from dependence on food, and on sugar in particular. Jaci describes the ways that she felt prepared and guided in her journey, which began with her learning that sugar addiction is very real. Jaci talks about being resistant to this idea for years before allowing herself to trust that the Lord was guiding her to the relief she so badly needed from her dependence. Jaci also provides insights into why her reliance on food developed, and how healing from her dependence has had nothing to do with dieting or attaining a certain body shape or size. 
 
I am grateful for Jaci's courage and for the hopeful perspective she brings to this topic. Jaci discusses the societal trends and pressures that influence so many people negatively and shares ideas for approaching and dismantling the shame that often interferes with our ability to see ourselves as God does. Jaci talks about feeling called to teach others about sugar addiction and to support them in their own healing. 
 
I feel very hopeful that this podcast will be a springboard that can help us examine our own attitudes, and associated behaviors, not only about food and body image, but also about other compulsions that we may turn to, instead of to the Savior, for help and comfort. I am glad there are people like Jaci, who not only have the experience, but also the expertise, to help all of us be more mindful and aware around this topic. Jaci's website and other social media links are shared below. Of note, Jaci was also interviewed in Episode 706 (link in show notes)
 
As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). 
 
Links for Jaci's digital platform are below: 
 
Jaci’s YouTube channel: 
youtube.com/@jaciwightman?si=Haekg_Ziz0X_GDN_
 
Jaci’s website: jaciwightman.com/
 
Jaci’s earlier podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-706-jaci-wightman-new-book-ignited/id1347971725?i=1000631042858

Episode 758:  Jaci Wightman - Wellness Coach, Healing From Compulsive Eating and Sugar Addiction

My friend Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray (lives in Maryland, Associate Professor at Sevenson University, married to her wife Heather, mother of two, taught at BYU for 15 years, no longer practicing Mormon) joins us to share her story.   Dr. Pray talks about her prior marriage to her former husband (they both are gay), why that marriage ended (they are on good terms), and how she found hope and happiness as she made her way forward.  Dr. Pray talks about the importance of writing your own story outside of the expectations of others—and how each queer story is unique, needed, and valued.
 
Dr. Pray talks about when she came out there were almost no stories of gay Latter-day Saint women and the importance of stories which led to her most recent book call “The Book of Queer Mormon Joy” which contains about 30 queer stories—focusing on how these individuals are finding joy.   
 
I’m grateful for Dr. Pray bravely sharing some of her story and also her work as editor of this new book—and all her work in our broad community to bring more understanding and support.   Thank you Dr. Pray—so glad to have you on the podcast!
 
Links:
 
The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Signature Books:   www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/the-book-of-queer-mormon-joy
 
The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Amazon:  www.amazon.com/dp/1560854707
 
I Spoke To You in Silence at Amazon:  hwww.amazon.com/dp/164769079X
 
Dr. Pray Twitter:  @Swilua
 
Dr Pray on Instagram:  @Swilua_

Episode 759: Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray, New Book:  “The Book of Queer Mormon Joy”

**This podcast mentions suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**
 
My friend Glen Bass (father of two, lives in Utah County, left church 2018, rebaptized 2024, divorced after 15 years of marriage) joins us to share his story.   Glen talks about his early years figuring out he is not 100% heterosexual.  Glen talks about his mission and being disfellowshipped for falling in love with his companion/physical relationship.   Glen talks about navigating the pain/shame/humiliation of that experience and the positive people in his life that kept him going.
 
Glen talks about returning to full fellowship and finding his wife (including opening up about his SSA during their courtship).   Glen talks about how that married ultimately ended (still on good terms) and how he is moving forward.    
 
Glen talks about leaving shame, self-loathing and finding peace, joy and happiness in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his decision to be rebaptized in March 2024.   Glen also shares a powerful insight while suicidal on the impact of his possible suicide on his daughter—one of the most powerful segments of any podcast we’ve done.  
 
Glen talks about how to forgive the Church/Church culture for painful experiences consistent with his desire to move forward in the Church.   I was so moved by the maturity, courage, vulnerability, hope and perspective in Glen’s story.   Honored to have him on the podcast.   You are a good man my friend Glen!

Episode 760: Glen “Mateo” Bass;  Bisexual Latter-day Saint,  Rebaptized 2024, Sharing Hope

**This podcast mentions suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**
 
My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story.  Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience).   Once that box was open, Jeremy talks about his journey of deconstructing and then reconstructing his life going forward.   Much of that included dark days of depression, anxiety and considering suicide. Jeremy also shares all his efforts (and other good people in his life) to help him find hope again and to better understand who he was created to be.   
 
Jeremy talks about getting in a healthier space with hope, peace, and also receiving powerful personal revelation that  “God loves gay Jeremy.”   Jeremy talks about fully accepting himself and how that takes away shame and allows him to be authentic.  Jeremy talks about how we are all created in the “image of God.”
 
Jeremy talks about his future and how he is purposefully going slow and becoming his best self before making major decisions. Jeremy also talks about his podcast called “The Empowerful Health Podcast” (see show notes).   
 
Thank you, Jeremy, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story.   You give hope for others walking a similar road and those who are suicidal—and provides principals and perspectives to better love, see, and support each other.   You are a good man.   Honored to have you on the podcast.  
 
Links:
 
Jeremy’s Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/empowerful-health/id1649852833
 
Jeremy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremykerriganaz/
 
Jeremy Kerrigan E-mail:  jskerrigan@gmail.com
 
Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 761: Dr. Jeremy Kerrigan, Age 40, Gay Latter-day Saint,  Recently Out

My friends Todd and Tanya Hughes (live in Ventura County CA, married for 29 years, recently divorced, still best friends) join us to share their story.   Todd (who recently turned 50) shares his background growing up gay in the church, and all the shame and self-hate that came with that.   Todd and Tanya met on their missions and ended up getting married, after Todd told her he was gay during their courtship.
 
Todd talks about how church teachings have evolved and how raising a queer and transgender son helped Todd learn that he is an intentionally created gay Son of God, and that God loves all of him.   Over the past few years, that has led Todd and Tanya to a decision to end their marriage—but remain friends (including still sitting on the same church pew together).  Tanya and Todd talk about their beautiful marriage, parenting a transgender son, and how they continue to help/support each other. 
 
Both Tanya and Todd have insights to support spouses of mixed-orientation marriages and better support/love/understand those whose marriages end.   Tanya talks about how she still has hope for her “eternal family” and how it just has been reconfigured.
 
Todd (who still actively serves in the church) talks about his intentions to date and then marry a man and participate as much as possible in the Church.   Neither Todd nor Tanya are inviting others to a similar path—just bravely sharing their story in hopes to help others walking a similar road and to help all of us better love our fellow Latter-day Saints.
 
Thank you, Todd and Tanya, for being on the podcast.   You are two remarkable, courageous, and faithful Latter-day Saints.    Your courage to share your story helps so many.
 
Todd’s e-mail: thousandoaksgathering@gmail.com 
 
Social media:
IG (Todd): @todd.hughes.in.ca
IG (Tanya): @tanyainsocal 
 
Latest Church Teachings:  www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction
 
Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:  www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 762: Todd (gay) and Tanya (straight) Hughes, Recently Divorced, Staying Close

Welcome to our podcast!   

My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren.  I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books: 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022.  The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6003149.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

“Listen Learn and Love:  Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023.  The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6026921.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.  

Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016.   Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

I am the author of two Ensign articles:

‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

 ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.   

This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

Thank you for joining us.   You can't donate to this podcast.  There are no sponsors.   But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤

Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook:  facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

Episode 757: Haymitch St. Stephen, New Book about Forgiveness (Ourselves and Others)

Richard Ostler

Related tracks