Steve’s guests are Charles Derber and Yale Magrass, authors of Who Owns Democracy: The Real Deep State and the Struggle Over Class and Caste in America.  

The concept of the deep state has been employed by different political ideologies, most recently the right under Trump. But its existence is real, and its service to the ruling class can be traced back to the founding of the US.  

Among other ideas, Charles and Yale stress the distinction between shallow democracy and the real thing. From their book’s abstract: 

“Large corporations, Wall Street, and other sectors of the capitalist class outsource day-to-day governance to the mainstream political parties, which can compete vigorously and create a credible veneer of civil liberties and electoral democracy, disguising and legitimating the deep state. But it is a “shallow democracy,” since the deep state sets boundaries on policies and choices to serve itself. It also denies a universal franchise and obstructs the voting rights of people of color, the poor, and other communities threatening to the deep state. Moreover, the deep state constrains civic governance in the workplace and community, denying virtually all working people democratic control over their economic and social life.” 

The episode’s conversation examines a historical and contemporary concept of caste in the US, which some of our listeners may find surprising. The discussion also covers contradictions within the capitalist class, the impact of the military-industrial complex, and the potential implications of the upcoming election. 

Charles Derber, Professor of Sociology at Boston College, is a public sociologist and life-long activist who writes about structural and cultural analysis of capitalism, public goods, the environment, and social movements seeking transformational change, He is the author of twenty-eight books. 

Yale Magrass is a Chancellor Professor of Sociology at University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth. He is the author/co-author of nine books, most co-authored with Charles Derber, and 80 articles. His work focuses upon how militaristic capitalism distorts everyday life as it promotes inequality, bullying, environmental devastation, and war.

Caste, Class and the Capital Order with Charles Derber & Yale Magrass

Steve interviews Bill Mitchell on the controversial concept of “Theory” in Modern Monetary Theory, demonstrating that even the most complicated economic concepts can be made accessible to the layperson. &nbsp;They take on several of the predominant criticisms of #MMT including microfoundations while taking us on a journey through macroeconomics, from Keynes and Milton Friedman including today’s New Keynesians. &nbsp; Now…. Enjoy the very first episode of Macro n Cheese! &nbsp; Special Thanks to The MMT Podcast's own Christian Reilly for assisting in audio engineering for this episode! 

Special Thanks to Geoffrey Ginter for the excellent intro song! And of course special thanks to our guest Professor Bill Mitchell, the donors of Real Progressives and our excellent staff of volunteers

Putting the T in MMT with Professor Bill Mitchell

The Covid19 pandemic is much more than a public health catastrophe; it has highlighted and exacerbated economic, social, and environmental crises on an unprecedented scale. 
 
While Congress sits on their hands, a learning-by-doing experiment is already underway at the Federal Reserve. With more than 40 million Americans out of work, the Fed appears ready to fulfill its congressional mandate to both maximize employment and promote stable prices. Indeed, the strongest signal that this time things can be different is the opening of the Fed’s new Municipal Liquidity Facility (MLF), which promises to buy both existing and future state and municipal debt.
-- from “Overcoming Covid19 Requires Rethinking University Finance” (see article link below) 
 
Our guests, Ben Wilson and Scott Ferguson, are working with others in the MMT community to develop the plan for a new university-issued currency, the Uni, with backing by the Federal Reserve. 
 
Universities are not unlike small states or municipalities. They provide jobs and living quarters, engage in commerce both on- and off-campus. They collect rent on their vast real estate holdings. They also behave like banks, providing students with accounts for purchasing books and supplies. The university’s stated mission is to contribute to the greater good, produce educated citizens, and be cooperative partners with the surrounding communities. 
 
According to our guests, the Uni’s value extends beyond immediate financial practicalities. The project can use the university as a proxy for reformulating the macro economy on a micro-scale, creating real-world experience pushing the modern money agenda forward. We can ask ourselves what we want money to do for us and how it can meet the needs of our communities. Rather than wait for the federal government to act, we can structure it on our own terms. 
 
Benjamin C. Wilson is an Associate Professor of Economics at the State University of New York at Cortland and a research scholar at the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity. 
 
@autogestion77 on Twitter 
 
Scott Ferguson is an Associate Professor of Film & Media Studies in the Department of Humanities & Cultural Studies at the University of South Florida and a Research Scholar at the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity. He is co-host of Money on the Left podcast featured by Monthly Review Online. 
 
@videotroph on Twitter 
 
https://www.boundary2.org/2020/07/scott-ferguson-benjamin-wilson-william-saas-maxximilian-seijo-overcoming-covid-19-requires-rethinking-university-finance/ 
 
Read about the Uni in the demands issued by the Resident Assistant/Peer Mentor union at UMass Amherst. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1psWUI4PGVVYOJ9flQiwsWKWHK9qhdLPFjonToNo4R7M/mobilebasic?fbclid=IwAR2pKwOHzggugNSJsrrQGFtm1Bl7D-1eYJDfQNgzD4s5yIfnu2VgmkJCTkc 
 
The Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity
http://www.global-isp.org/

UNI's for All with Ben Wilson and Scott Ferguson

Macroeconomics has never been so ... delish!  Macro and Cheese explores the progressive movement through the lens of Modern Monetary Theory, with hot and irreverent political takes, spotlights in activism, and the razor sharp musings of Real Progressives Founder and host Steve Grumbine.  The cheese will flow as experts come in for a full, four course deep dive into the hot queso. 

Comfort Food for Thought!

Caste, Class and the Capital Order with Charles Derber & Yale Magrass

Macro n Cheese

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