Kelsey Watkins discusses her approach to equine therapy that melds Natural Lifemanship, a principals based equine therapy modality, with Object Relations and other psychoanalytic theories. Discussion covers ghost hunting, projection, and birdsong.

Kelsey can be found at Folktown counseling: https://folktowncounseling.com/counselors/kelsey-law/

Further Learning

The Natural Lifemanship website: https://naturallifemanship.com/

Psychoanalytic Equine Therapy with Kesley Watkins, MA, LMHC

Dear Listeners,
In this episode, your hosts continue their discussion based on the article "The Intolerance of Diversity in Psychoanalytic Institutes" by Kenneth Eisold. Let us know what you think, and follow us on BlueSky (discussionsonpsya.bsky.social).
Thank you for listening

[03:04] Tension around networking
[06:02] Analysis and whealth
[08:23] "You need to go back to analysis"
[13:47] What is the analysis for?
[18:12] Training Analysis
[20:43] Tensions in the cross identifications
[24:30] Submission to bad treatments
[27:23] Ending

#55 On Institutions' Internal Tensions

Participants: John Steppling, Hiroyuki Hamada, Shaenah Batterson and Dennis Riches. Topics covered: The Trump-Zelenski feud, Freud and the working class, Russell Jacoby and psychoanalysis, Brecht, Film: A Complete Unknown—are biopics performed by actors or re-enactors? Who will save Europe from itself this time? RFK Jr.’s chances of success, in reforming Health and Human Services, Music track “The St. Louis Blues” by Bessie Smith (public domain).

PODCAST #151

Broadcasted on Saturday 30/11/24

Tracklist:
Naná Vasconcelos - Ondas (Na Ohlos de Petronila)
KOKOKO! - Donne Moi
Ill Considered - Retreat
(Darian Leader on psychosis in the media)
Brian Eno & David Byrne - Mea Culpa
Soccer96 ft. Alabaster Deplume - I was gonna fight fascism
(from Dziga Vertov’s “The Man with the Movie Camera”)
Ibaaku - Ancestral Intelligence
(Werner Herzog quoting French author André Gide)
Flock - Meet your Shadow
African Head Charge - Fever Pitch
(Werner Herzog on Truth)
Shabaka Hutchings, Moses Sumney - Insecurities
Nala Sinephro - Continuum 4
(Darian Leader on every-day psychosis)
Bex Burch - Pardieu
Cacique ’97 - Letter to the Martyrs
The Velvet Underground - Ride Into the Sun (1969 - 2014 Mix)

THE ECSTATIC LUNATIC TRUTH // mixtape #4 (guest mix for Paranoise Radio)

Vanessa and I talk about her upcoming course with Morbid Anatomy, “The Cut in Creation: Exploring the Avant-Garde, Dada, Surrealism, Modern Art, Noise Music, and Performance Art through a Psychoanalytic Lens.” This course will be taking place on Sundays, from May 25- June 15, and all classes will be recorded for those who can’t make it to the live class for whatever reason.

As the Morbid Anatomy website states: 
Drawing on the theories of a variety of psychoanalysts, including Freud, Lacan and Laplanche, the course will explore the long and rich relationship between psychoanalysis and the fine arts – from painting and music to poetry, collage, photography, film, and performance art, including the use of technology and body modification to explore aspects of identity, gender and sexuality. Through immersion in the work of these artists and psychoanalytic ideas, participants will walk away with a better understanding of the transformative process inherent of the act of creation itself, especially when used as a powerful disruption of narrative, and hopefully feel inspired themselves to create! 

In this discussion, Vanessa gives a sneak peek into each of the four parts of the course. Some highlights are: 

talking about the inspiration for the course;
outlining the events that led to the creation of psychoanalysis as well as the avant-garde movement;
expanding on the historical backdrop – what was happening during these years that created this paradigm shift;
looking at the years leading up to WW1, and what was taking place then, focusing on psychoanalysis and the avant-garde art scenes;
focusing on surrealism and later developments in experimental film, followed by some discussion on the Beat Poets, and outlining how these three are interconnected;
focusing on the birth of pop art, and art as it moved from the galleries to the streets, as well as performance art that included the body as an important vehicle/tool of expression.
 
Music, Editing and Video Production: Stephanie Shea

For more information and links, please visit: https://www.patreon.com/RejectedReligion or https://www.rejectedreligion.com.  

Spotlight Vanessa Sinclair: Discussing the Upcoming Morbid Anatomy Course, "The Cut in Creation"

Coop and Taylor discuss Freud's Project for a Scientific Psychology with an emphasis on how it informs the 3 syntheses of the unconscious for Deleuze and Guattari. 

Freud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/sets/freud?si=c51111042521492db6bd5311890dacd7&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Support us on Patreon:

www.patreon.com/muhh

Twitter: @unconscioushh

Instagram: @unconscioushh

Freud's Project for a Scientific Psychology

This week Timothy Jackson joined Coop and Taylor to discuss Felix Guttari's Chaosmosis: An Ethico-aesthetic Paradigm.

Book PDF: https://monoskop.org/images/2/24/Guattari_Felix_Chaosmosis_An_Ethico-Aesthetic_Paradigm.pdf

Support us on Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/muhh

Twitter: @unconscioushh

Timothy Jackson - Chaosmosis

In the premiere of season six, psychoanalyst Eyal Rozmarin joins our host John Totten to discuss the constitutive power of belonging. A native of Israel-Palestine, and an objector to his compulsory military service, Eyal has a unique take on the respective costs of belonging and its counterpart abandonment. From Oedipus to the superego, Freud is subverted here; Rozmarin posits it is not that society protects us from our own nature, but that belonging turns us into killers. Is it possible that our collectives are antithetical to the goals of psychotherapy and what is the implication for the treatment room? This and more is discussed in the first of a two-part conversation. 

Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Episode 51: Belonging Is A Double-Edged Sword...

This week Eugene Holland returned to the show to axiomatics and markets in the context of Deleuze and Guattari's work.

Eugene's previous appearances:

https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/eugene-holland?si=521437745cee470da3524b081eb3e9f7&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/eugene-holland-multiplicities-axiomatics-politics?si=e71d1e6a00f74520859fe160615a9657&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Support us on Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/muhh

Twitter: @unconscioushh

Eugene Holland - Axiomatics and Markets

This week, we continue our conversation with Eyal Rozmarin. If belonging is a powerful force compelling us to identify with groups, it follows that our collectives must imprint themselves on the foundation of our very subjectivity. Drawing on the work of Foucault and Giorgio Agamben, Rozmarin paints a portrait of personhood that is always in conflict between the warm acceptance of the State, and the terror of being cast out into the wilderness as bare life. But what if we were to transcend the Self? What does a liberated Subject look like? An ideology that positions the Self as always in transition would only echo what we should already know as therapists- that identity is transient, the Self is expansive, and that our borders, no matter how much we build walls, are permeable. 

Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Episode 52: ...The Self Is A Prison

Nameless Dread

Transformation in O

As a child of Palestinian parents displaced to Beirut, Karim Dajani became interested in psychoanalysis at a young age. These days, he’s justifiably interested in the field’s own exiles, particularly Trigant Burrow, who theorized as early as the 1920’s that the unconscious is structured in concordance with the social world, only to be expelled from the APA shortly thereafter. Dajani explains how the field has time and time again, invested in the erasure of the social unconscious, in a misguided effort to keep psychoanalysis pure. His disillusionment with the institution lies in the contradiction- that as a business of scholarship and truth-making, its leaders strive to suppress the understanding that culture is an antecedent force that was working hard on us back when we were simply fantasies. 


Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll


Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Episode 53: What We're Born Into

This week we look at 587 B.c.-A.D. 70: On Several Regimes from Deleuze and Guattari's A Thousand Plateaus.

Referenced Episode Links:

Isabel Millar: https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/isabel-millar-preliminary-materials-for-a-theory-of-the-bombshell?si=7f723501d19f48f187c1925cb1f40474&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Eugene Holland: https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/eugene-holland?si=9d88c58432324a7bb5e0117d82965957&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Henry Somers-Hall: https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/henry-somers-hall-treatise-on-nomadology-the-war-machine?si=0a6fb9a895c5419489de3fc3be3503bb&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

A Thousand Plateaus Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/podcast-co-coopercherry/sets/a-thousand-plateaus?si=5c7f74f291db4182813dba684a7eff5a&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Support us on Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/muhh

Twitter: @unconscioushh

Deleuze and Guattari - On Several Regimes of Signs

Lynne Layton joins us for our most political conversation to date. Layton’s concept of the normative unconscious, which addresses the myriad of ways we all strive to maintain the status quo, has been influential to those who believe that the mind is shaped by social forces beyond the family. Racism and sexism play a central role, but these bigotries, that work to separate us and dominate some, also work in tandem with economic and political forces that seek to make us all subservient. Layton discusses the influence Erich Fromm had on her work, her critique of the neoliberal regime through a psychoanalytic lens, and how the controversies produced by such inquiries, are very much alive and well in a field that is capable of crying in terror at straw men like “wokeism” and “identity politics.” 


Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Episode 54: Everybody Stays Chill

Jay Bakker joins us live from the International Forum for Psychoanalytic Education. As the child of the famous televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jay has always been surrounded by persistent narratives—even among therapists of every stripe. The pressures of life in the limelight from an early age led him to cope through addiction, especially after his parents faced a very public downfall. But when the Oscar-winning film The Eyes of Tammy Faye was released, Jay sought treatment once again—this time with a psychoanalytic psychotherapist. In a vulnerable conversation, in front of an audience of therapists, Jay shares how this treatment helped him better understand what his unconscious was doing to him, and how psychoanalysis has shaped his efforts to build a more hospitable theology as he strives to disagree well with those across ideologies.

Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Engineering by Ian Knippel
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Episode 55: Dark Knight of the Soul

Roy Barsness returns to the show to discuss his new book, which establishes a psychodynamic model of clinical supervision. Steeped in relational psychoanalytic values, this approach offers not only a new way of thinking about supervision, but also a recapitulation of how this theory informs practice in the treatment room—and life in general. By considering each case a muse for both therapist and supervisor, Barsness invites emergent subjectivities into each relationship. Supervision becomes the framework for a path of encounter, with contemporary figures such as Mitchell and Benjamin lighting the way. Roy emphasizes the personal journey of the therapist as crucial to this modality, while Mason reflects with John on his own journey home and the persistent question of to whom we truly belong.



Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Episode 56: Reclaiming the Relational

Tony Bass is less concerned with building psychological metatheories than with how theory comes alive in the consulting room. From the earliest days of the Relational movement, he worked alongside Stephen Mitchell and others to shape a vision of treatment grounded in mutual influence, drawing inspiration from Ferenczi’s dialogue of unconsciouses—an approach Bass experiences as intuitive and “not so meta.” But whose unconscious is it, anyway? For Tony, the analytic encounter always points to interplay: between patient and analyst, healer and healed. In his view, psychotherapy is not the application of a fixed model but an ongoing improvisation, in which each subjectivity becomes instrumental to the unfolding of new meanings and unexpected revelations of both similarity and difference. 



Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ


Episode 57: What's Mine Is Yours

Today I’m super excited to present to you another episode from the Archives From this trove of 1/2 inch reel to reel tapes that we recently found mouldering in a storage facility near the Monterey Airport - a  1966 dialogue between Esalen co-founder Michael Murphy and philosopher Alan Watts and today is PART TWO— notable for being one of the only instances I've encountered of Michael Murphy conducting an interview himself. But hey, when it’s Alan Watts, all bets are off. 
So, first, who is Alan Watts? He’s born in England, but moved to the United States in 1938 to pursue Zen training in New York. Then he attended a Seabury-Western Theological Seminary, got a master’s degree in theology. became an Episcopal priest in 1945, left the ministry in 1950 and then he moved to California, where he joined the faculty of the American Academy of Asian Studies. It was during the 1950s that he met Dick Price and Michael Murphy - both of whom were kicking around the Bay Area after their stints at Stanford, trying to figure out what the heck they were doing with their lives.  
It’s widely known that Watts represents this pivotal figure in the transmission of Eastern philosophical traditions to Western intellectual discourse. By the time this conversation rolls around in 66, he had long since established himself as a rather famous interpreter of Zen Buddhism, Taoism, and Hindu metaphysics for American audiences.
He’d had a rise to prominence in the 1950s which coincided with a broader cultural receptivity to Eastern philosophical frameworks. The Beats, early hippies, young people, intellectuals - they were all fascinated by Zen and the I Ching and Buddhism. At Esalen, where Alan Watts taught from the very first days in 1962 up until his death in 1973, he really found an ideal context for exploring the synthesis between Eastern contemplative traditions and this Western psychological inquiry which was coming to the forefront. 
And then the temporal context for this interview bears mentioning, too. This conversation occurs at a moment of considerable social upheaval: we’ve got an escalation of American involvement in Vietnam, and a pushback at home, we’ve got the emergence of several countercultural movements, including the civil rights movement and a rather new hippie/ pyschedelic culture. There’s a widespread questioning of established institutional authority. So it’s within this milieu that Watts and Murphy examine fundamental questions about human consciousness and the peculiarities of American cultural expression. 
And of course all delivered in that million dollar voice by Alan Watts. I mean, He could read a Denny’s menu and make it sound profound. 

To me, this is a treasure of a conversation - even though it’s historically situated, it addresses still-relevant questions about consciousness, about cultural development, and about humanity's place within larger systems. 
It also provides a lot of insight into the intellectual atmosphere that characterized Esalen's early years, when the boundaries between disciplines were very permeable and fundamental questions about human nature were approached with both rigor and imagination. 
Here's Alan Watts, interviewed by Michael Murphy, at Esalen Institute in 1966.

Alan Watts, interviewed by Esalen co-founder Michael Murphy (1966) - Part Two

An audio introduction to the worlds of psychology, psychiatry, and psychoanalysis.

"Voices of Esalen" features provocative, in-depth interviews with the dynamic leaders, teachers, and thinkers who reflect the mission of the Esalen Institute.

For more about the Esalen Institute, head to esalen.org 

Follow Esalen on Facebook and Twitter

Psychotherapists John Totten and Mason Neely bring you this psychotherapy podcast that explores what is happening between therapists and patients, from both sides of the relationship.

Every month we try to offer a good enough, candid and open discussion on different aspects of psychoanalysis.
We invite our audience to share with us their comments and questions by writing to us
discussionsonpsychoanalysis@pm.me
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