Paul Polman is a business leader, campaigner, and co-author (with Andrew Winston) of Net Positive: How Courageous Companies Thrive By Giving More Than They Take, a Financial Times Business Book of the Year. Together with Andrew, Paul is ranked #3 on the Thinkers50 Ranking. 

As CEO of Unilever (2009-2019), Paul demonstrated that business can profit through purpose, delivering shareholder returns of 290% while the company consistently ranked 1st in the world for sustainability. Today he works across a range of organisations to deliver the UN Sustainable Development Goals, which he helped develop. 

In New York for the 2024 Climate Week, Paul sat down with Thinkers50 co-founder, Des Dearlove, and Steve Goldbach, head of Deloitte’s Sustainability Practice in the US, to discuss how business can be a force for good, what it means to be ‘net positive,’ and how to develop the next generation of leaders. 

He identified a fundamental moral vacuum in our current approach to global challenges and emphasised that addressing this void requires more than systemic reforms – it demands a profound transformation in how we think and lead. A new leadership mindset is called for, he argues; one that focuses on restorative, reparative, and regenerative practices and places cooperation above competition.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 28: Paul Polman

Transforming Barbie

Executive vice president and chief brand officer of Mattel, Lisa McKnight is credited with leading the transformation of the Barbie brand. Under her leadership, Barbie became the number one global toy property in 2020 and 2021, and she redefined Barbie’s global social mission with the launch of the Dream Gap Project in 2018, a multi-year initiative which has positively impacted over 25 million girls.

In this conversation with Steve Goldbach, leader of Deloitte’s sustainability practice in the US, and Des Dearlove, co-founder of Thinkers50, Lisa explains what drew her to the world of toys, why the Barbie brand had fallen out of touch with its market, and how she and her team tackled the challenge of making Barbie relevant again.

Find out more about the importance of brands being consumer-centric and staying connected to culture, how Mattel overcame corporate reservations in the making of the Barbie movie, and why you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable when making decisions.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in these articles are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 29: Lisa McKnight

The 2024 Provocateurs series featured nine inspiring thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and business authors who challenged us to re-think conventional approaches to leadership and management. 

Neri Karra Sillaman shared her remarkable story from refugee to building a multi-million-dollar sustainable fashion brand; Marcus Collins explored the hidden power of cultural influence in consumer behaviour; Lisa McKnight revealed how she transformed Barbie into a cultural phenomenon and billion-dollar success; and Andrew Winston redefined the role of business to create a thriving “net positive world”. 

One of the key highlights of the 2024 series was recording live at New York Climate Week with Paul Polman, former CEO of Unilever, who delivered an emotional and unequivocal call to action to address the “moral vacuum” in global leadership. We must cultivate leaders, he says, who are equipped to embrace restorative, reparative, and regenerative practices and lead with purpose.

We also learnt leadership lessons from Amy Chang on becoming an AI entrepreneur; Jeff Wetzler on leveraging the wisdom of the people around you; Dane Jensen on harnessing the positive power of pressure; and Atif Rafiq on driving innovation and digital transformation in traditional, legacy companies.

In this episode, Steve Goldbach, Geoff Tuff, and Kulleni Gebreyes of Deloitte, join Stuart Crainer and Des Dearlove of Thinkers50, to reflect on their key takeaways and thought-provoking insights from Provocateurs 2024.

This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in this podcast are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 30: Reflections

Profit is Not the Only Value

A sustainable systems scientist, Weslynne Ashton is professor of environmental management and sustainability at the Illinois Institute of Technology, where she also co-directs ID’s Food Systems Action Lab.

Here she discusses her work in industrial ecology and the circular economy, drawing from her experiences growing up in Trinidad. Weslynne argues that businesses need to adopt a more holistic view of value creation and regeneration, moving beyond purely financial metrics. 

Weslynne Ashton’s research, teaching, and practice are oriented around transitioning socio-ecological systems to create more sustainable and regenerative business practices and emphasizes the importance of expanding beyond traditional views of capital to include eight different types: natural, human, financial, manufactured, social, political, cultural, and digital. 

But how do we get these multiple capitals onto the balance sheet of business? Find out more in this conversation with hosts Geoff Tuff and Des Dearlove.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in these articles are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 31: Weslynne Ashton

Katie McGinty is the vice president and chief sustainability and external relations officer at Johnson Controls. In this episode she shares insights from her remarkable career spanning both public service – including as the first woman to chair the White House Council on Environmental Quality under President Clinton – and private sector leadership.

Challenging the persistent myth that environmental initiatives harm the bottom line, Katie explains how sustainability and economic success are not opposing forces but complementary strategies, demonstrating through real-world examples how Johnson Controls achieves significant carbon reductions while generating substantial cost savings for clients.

Key themes include:

The importance of systems thinking in environmental solutions.
How buildings can be transformed from climate problems to climate solutions.
The power of technological innovation through efficiency, electrification, and digitalization. 

Drawing from her unique background in chemistry, policy, and business leadership, Katie illustrates how bringing diverse perspectives together catalyzes creativity and transforms environmental challenges into competitive advantages and economic opportunities. Sustainability, she contends, is becoming “strategy essential” for businesses.

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This podcast is part of an ongoing series of interviews with executives. The executives’ participation in these articles are solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 32: Katie McGinty

Rajendra Pratap Gupta is a policymaker and author, a former advisor to the Health Minister of India, and a leading provocateur in digital health initiatives across the world.

He is the founder of the Global Digital Health Summit, which aims to create the future of healthcare; global think-tank The Health Parliament, which collaborates with the world’s leading organizations to make health and well-being accessible to all; and the International Patients Union, which is dedicated to empowering patients in policymaking. Rajendra also works to advance education in digital health at the Academy of Digital Health Sciences, which is now the largest provider of digital health courses globally.

In this episode, Rajendra draws on his extensive experience in private and public sectors to map out the future of healthcare. Discover:

• How prioritising healthcare can win elections
• The critical role of preemptive care over preventive care
• How genetics and individual data is shifting healthcare “from bedside to website”

With the democratization of technology, Rajendra contends, patients will turn from being passive recipients of care to active participants. Technology will be more than a platform for the solution – it will be the solution itself.

The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 33: Rajendra Pratap Gupta

Karthik Ramanna is a professor of business and public policy at the University of Oxford's Blavatnik School of Government and author of The Age of Outrage: How to Lead in a Polarized World – recently named one of Thinkers50's Best Management Books of 2025.

In this episode of The Provocateurs, Karthik identifies three distinctive forces shaping our current moment: profound uncertainty about the future driven by AI, climate change, and demographic shifts; deep distrust in institutions of governance that people feel have delivered a "raw deal"; and a shift away from global humanism toward economic and cultural nationalism.

Discover the tools and techniques leaders can adopt not only to manage outrage but to manage in the age of outrage, including:
- How to build an active listening network
- A 5-step framework for maintaining calm 
- Lessons from “temperate leadership”

Ideas, says Karthik, are everywhere, but implementation is everything.

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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.


The Provocateurs Episode 34: Karthik Ramanna

Trailblazer Eileen Collins is a retired NASA astronaut and former Air Force Colonel. In 1995, she became the first woman to pilot a space shuttle and in 1999, she became the first woman to command a space shuttle mission. Eileen's final mission in 2005 was commanding the critical return to flight mission, the first since the space shuttle Columbia disaster. Her memoir Through The Glass Ceiling to the Stars, was published in 2021. 

Provocateurs hosts Des Dearlove and Steve Goldbach talk to Eileen about her remarkable journey from a young girl in small town Elmira, New York, who dreamed of flying, to breaking the glass ceiling at NASA. Addressing the challenges of spaceflight, she reveals the importance of relentless preparation, the power of mentorship, and her evolution from an autocratic to collaborative leader. She also shares her three fundamental elements of leadership:

1. Know your job
2. Get the right people in place
3. Integrity: honesty and trust

In a candid conversation, Eileen also reveals surprising moments of vulnerability, including a panic attack at a press event that contrasted sharply with her calm under life-threatening space emergencies. 
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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 35: Eileen Collins

Award-winning chef, chocolatier, and founder of Midunu, Selassie Atadika is a Time 2025 Earth Award honoree and Yale’s inaugural Global Table Fellow. In this compelling episode of Provocateurs, Selassie demonstrates how intentional food choices can reshape entire systems.

Food is more than just sustenance, she contends, it’s a powerful tool for transformation, touching every aspect of our lives from economics to environmental policy, health, and culture. Drawing from her experiences across 44 African countries, Selassie’s philosophy of "new African cuisine" – where culture, community, and cuisine intersect with environment, sustainability, and economy – offers profound lessons for addressing global food system challenges, while celebrating local traditions and creating economic opportunities for smallholder farmers.

Discover more about the innovative business model of Midunu – a nomadic dining concept that combines research, education, and culinary experiences – and how Selassie is “leading through deliciousness” to create new possibilities for sustainable agriculture, preserve cultural heritage, and protect the environment around us.

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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.

The Provocateurs Episode 36: Selassie Atadika

Anke Hampel is chief sustainability officer at ABB, a global technology leader in electrification and automation based in Zurich, and a member of the board of directors of ABB Germany. With a background in finance, procurement, supply chain, and innovation management in the consumer goods and packaging industry, Anke is driven by a mission to unite profit with purpose. Sustainability, she contends, is a business imperative, not a fluffy add-on. Moreover, sustainability is not the preserve of seasoned experts; everyone can and should play a role.

In this special episode of the Provocateurs podcast recorded live at Climate Week New York, Anke presents the business case for sustainability and shares her learnings:
• Integrate sustainability into strategy: align your entire portfolio to your purpose by embedding sustainability targets directly into financial planning.
• Measure what matters: apply KPI’s to every phase of the product lifecycle to track circularity.
• Collaborate actively: as resources decline, close partnerships across your ecosystem are vital – or you risk losing your place in the supply chain.
• Manage climate risk: what cannot be insured cannot be financed – and data shows that climate-related risks are increasingly uninsurable.

Hear more from Anke on why now is the critical time to make a strategic decision: Flee, Freeze, or Fast Forward.
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The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educational purposes based on their knowledge of the subject and the views expressed by them are solely their own. This podcast should not be deemed or construed to be for the purpose of soliciting business for any of the companies mentioned, nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse the services or products provided by these companies.


The Provocateurs Episode 37 Anke Hampel: Recorded Live at Climate Week New York

Stuart Crainer interviews Alessandro di Fiore of ECSI Consulting. They discuss the insight-driven organization and innovation. 

The Insight-Driven Institution | Guest: Alessandro di Fiore

Thinkers50