My friends Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, and McArthur Krishna join us to talk about their new book “Mother in Heaven: A Gospel Topics Essay Study Guide.” The book is exactly what the title says: a study guide for the Church's Gospel Topics essay on Heavenly Mother.  
The book authors talk about the spiritual benefits in our lives of learning about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother and why She matters.
 
This book is aligned with official Church statements and teachings about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother. The authors hope that it helps people seeking our Mother in Heaven to spiritually connect with Her so She is real, intentional, and active in our lives and in Church conversations. 
 
Thank you, Ashli, Trina and McArthur, for your needed work. I was deeply moved by your insights and good hearts. 
 
I encourage everyone to read this book.
 
Links:
 
Mother in Heaven Study Guide:   www.amazon.com/dp/1734228725
 
Cherish 1: The Joy of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1948218879
 
Cherish 2: The Love of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228733
 
A Girl's Guide to Heavenly Mother:  www.deseretbook.com/product/5258047.html
 
A Boy's Guide to Heavenly Mother:  www.deseretbook.com/product/5258052.html
 
Combined IG account: @heavenlymothermatters

Personal IG accounts: @ashlicarnicelli  @libraryhouseediting  @mcarthurkrishna_creates     

Library House Editing page with links to the gospel topics essay footnotes and some other resources: https://libraryhouseediting.com/?page_id=741

Episode 834: Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, McArthur Krishna: New Book about Heavenly Mother

My friends Shirley Washenko (sexual abuse survivor/advocate) and Sage Williams (MSc, RN, long-time advocate) joins us to talk about their new, groundbreaking and needed book (published by Deseret Book) called “Healing after Sexual Abuse, A Latter-day Saint Perspective”.

The book has these powerful chapters:

1) Establishing Identity
2) Uncovering Wounds
3) Embracing Agency
4) Differentiating Healing Journeys
5) Responding to Anger with Integrity
6) The Core:  Connection
7) It Takes “an Angel” to Speak the Truth
8) Grief:  Linking, Past Present, and Future
9) Forgiveness in a New Light
10) The Healing Journey

This is one of the finest podcasts we’ve done on healing after sexual abuse.   Shirley and Sage (from their respective experiences) bring new, impactful, and practical insights to help heal from sexual abuse.    The book will help sexual abuse survivors and also the rest of us as we learn better tools to help them.

I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others.

Thank you, Shirley and Sage, for your life-saving work to bring hope and healing.   You are two of my heroes.  Honored to have you on the podcast!

Links:
Web Site:  www.healingaftersexualabuse.com/
Deseret Book:  www.deseretbook.com/product/P6078641.html
Amazon:  www.amazon.com/dp/1639934219

Episode 835:  Shirley Washenko and Sage Williams, New Book:  “Healing after Sexual Abuse”

My friends McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel (authors, BYU grads, advocates for those on the margins) join us to talk about their important new book (at Deseret Book and Amazon) called “Changemakers: Women Who Bolding Built Zion”
The podcast/book covers important topics:
How revelation is “scattered”
How women led changing the Church Institution with Primary and Relief Society
How most of the change we can impact is in our local area around culture
Anne’s racial awakening—and her desire to help people of other races feel belonging
The “Back Yard Principle”
Supporting those who leave the church
Why McArthur and Anne (knowing all the complicated issues) stay in the Church
Why McArthur hopes the Church her daughters are raised in is different than the Church she was raised in—and how we should embrace change
Importance of personal authority
If you are looking to improve church culture to better create Zion so more feel welcome, I encourage you to read/share this book.   It has real-life stories and perspectives/principles to help each of us.   I wish I had read a book like this a long time ago.  
I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others.
Thank you, McArthur and Anne, for your needed work in our community.   Honored to have you on the podcast!
Links:
Amazon:  www.amazon.com/dp/1560855185
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/6085124.html
McArthur IG:  @mcarthurkrishna_creates
McArthur FB:  www.facebook.com/mcarthur.mcarthurfreeranger
Heavenly Mother Matters IG:  @heavenlymothermatters
Anne IG:  @the.vision.beautiful
James Jones Online Course:  btbacademy.thinkific.com/courses/lds-anti-racism-101-abandoning-attitudes-and-actions-of-prejudice 
Chapter on How We Should Treat People Who Leave the Church:  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zkupzyte3lqqtxla6q9y1/Chapter-4-How-Should-We-Treat-Those-Who-Leave-the-Church.pdf?rlkey=w00hdkyywo5m9dyg1uwscqbxm&dl=0

Episode 836:  McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel, New Book, “Changemakers: Women Who Bolding Built Zion”

My friend Darren Parry (Shoshone Leader, Adjust Professor at Utah State and University of Utah, Author) joins us to talk about his new book called “Tending the Sacred: How Indigenous Wisdom will Save the World” which talks about values from the lens of our Indigenous friends to help understand and solve today’s problems. 

Darren talks about his own history (including his ancestors) using real life examples on how “Indigenous Wisdom” helps see and solve problems bringing us together as the same human family.  
 
I am deeply moved by Darren’s insights/soft heart and work to build bridges.    I’m honored to have served as Darren’s companion during our missions in England 45 years ago as I had the chance to see Darren’s love for the people of England (and love for me—his new junior companion).
 
I encourage everyone to reach Darren’s book—for timeless values to help bring us together.    Thank you to our friends at BCC Press for publishing Darren’s book.
 
Thank you, Darren, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our world!
 
Links:
 
Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1961471248
 
Darren’s  FB:  https://www.facebook.com/darren.parry.7

Episode 837:  Darren Parry, New Book, “Tending the Sacred: How Indigenous Wisdom will Save the World”

My friend Jessica Frew (life coach, former husband is gay and still “part of the family”, married mother of three) joins us to share her story of her husband coming out as gay and that marriage ending—and still staying close as they co-parent their daughter.  
 
Jessica also talks about her important new book called “Shove Your Shoulds” which focuses on healthier boundaries, improved self-image, and deeper acceptance of ourselves and others.   Jessica writes the book from her own experiences and from her work as a life coach.
 
I am grateful for Jessica’s voice on acceptance and understanding in our community—and encourage everyone to check out her new book (currently in presale—release date of Sept 12, 2025).
 
Thank you, Jessica, for being on the podcast.  You are awesome.
 
Links:
 
Book website:   https://shoveyourshoulds.com/

Jessica on Instagram:  @heyjessicafrew

Jessica’s podcast (Husband In Law):  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/husband-in-law/id1464470280

Jessica’s earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 217):  https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-217-jessica-and-matt-frew-active-lds-and-steve-stoddard-jessicas-gay-former-husband

Episode 839:  Jessica Frew, Podcaster, Author, New Book “Shove Your Shoulds”

My friends Aaron and Julie Bujnowski (married parents of two; living North of Dallas, Texas, active Latter-day Saints) join us to talk about their new book “Navigating to Jesus: A Journey of Faith.” In this important 10-chapter book, Aaron and Julie share many of their own difficult/wounding experiences (both in and out of the Church), and their path forward to healing and staying in the Church is Jesus.  
 
Thank you, Aaron and Julie, for opening up your hearts in writing this needed book and being on the podcast. I am grateful for your courage to talk about some of your difficult life experiences, and “navigating to Jesus” is the answer. I encourage everyone to check out your book!
 
Links:
 
Amazon: https://a.co/d/cUw0Y09
 
Cedar Fort: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/navigating-to-jesus-a-journey-of-faith?sca_ref=2861413.ytmX5gv94t
 
Instagram: @navigatingtojesus
 
Earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 647):  soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-647-aaron-and-julie-bujnowski-new-book-discovering-your-temple-insights

Episode 840: Aaron and Julie Bujnowski:  New Book “Navigating to Jesus:  A Journey of Faith”

Talk given in our YSA Ward on the character of our Heavenly Parents and Jesus—and how that brings us peace, healing, and hope.  
 
Focused on seven concepts:
 
1) Our Heavenly Parents love all Their children
2) We have to believe/know we are acceptable to God.  That we are created as intended.  That no one is a mistake
3) Zion isn’t sameness
4) Jesus loves to forgive
5) Whole and complete now
6) Don’t feel you are behind
7) Throw out the dating checklist
 
Links:
 
Seven Tips for Overcoming Porn Use:  www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
 
How the Savior’s Healing Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin:  www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

Episode 841: Richard Ostler: YSA Ward Talk

My friend Rob Metalf (married father of two, age 33) joins us to share his journey with his mental health (OCD/anxiety) and his physical health (Ankylosing spondylitis—or AS).   Rob (guitar player and songwriter) has formed a band (TOWN!) and is releasing an album (The Road Trip) that captures many of his life experiences.   The first song (Forever—see show notes) is a song about his anxiety.    In the podcast, Rob talks about other songs that on the album talking about important and sensitive subjects (suicide, relationship with the Church, Alzheimer's).
In the podcast, Rob shares his journey with AS (undiagnosed for a long time) and how it took him from an avid outdoorsman to—on his worse days—bedridden.   Rob talks about his journey to find a diagnosis and the right medication to get him in a better spot—and all the people that helped him along the way.  Rob is honest about feeling angry/abandon by God and how we can better support people with long-term health challenges.
Rob is one of my heroes.  He is a survivor and now using his gifts to help others through sharing his story and his music.    I encourage you to listen to and share this podcast and his music.    Thank you, Rob, for being on the podcast.   You are a good man.
Links:
 
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/5B6F6RaBY79SLmTIZvOzLs?si=495f1a71eacd480e&nd=1&dlsi=cc0b82d21bb24d6e

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/forever/1826704391?i=1826704454

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abandcalledtown/

Episode 842:  Rob Metcalf:  New Album “The Road Trip”

My friend Bryson Lind (active gay Latter-day Saint, mid 30’s) joins us to discuss his new therapy practice in Utah (Aletheia Counseling) and important topics he helps clients (LGBTQ and straight) solve including:

* Overcoming unwanted behaviors
* Reconstructing a relationship with the Divine
* Honoring everyone’s path
* Trusting our Light of Christ/Inner Compass
* Navigating relationships with parents and leaders
* Developing self-confidence and patience

If you are looking for a therapist (or insights from a therapist to help you—or to be a better ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints), this is a must listen podcast. Bryson’s brings his lived experience, clinical training, and 5 years of clinical practice together to offer powerful solutions and principles.    I was so moved listening to Bryson and so grateful to have him back on the podcast.

Thank you, Bryson.   You are a good man doing great work in our community.

Links:
Bryson’s e-mail:  bryson@aletheiacounselingtherapy.com
Bryson’s Work Phone:  385-442-9721
Bryson’s earlier podcast:  https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-588-bryson-lind-rm-byu-grad-gay-clinical-mental-health-counselor
Bryson’s Psychology Today profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/bryson-garrett-lind-provo-ut/1090307

Episode 843:  Bryson Lind, Gay Latter-Day Saint, Therapist Perspective to Finding Healing and Hope

My friend Travis and Margaret Steward, active LDS, parents of 6 children, Mission President in Houston from 2005-2008, share their story with Travis coming out as gay to his wife in 2014 and then more broadly to trusted friends and family members.

Travis bravely shares the 40+ years of shame and self-loathing being in the closet as a gay Latter-day Saint and how this shame is now gone.  Travis shares how he now has a much deeper relationship with Christ and sees himself worthy of God’s love. 

They both share how they are navigating this road.  Their marriage is real, authentic and a beautiful love story.  

Travis and Margaret have wonderful insights on the Gospel of Jesus Christ and how we can better minister to all of God’s children.   

As I recorded this podcast, I felt I was on sacred ground as this great couple shared their journey and insights.   Often with tears in all our eyes.  I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast as you will gain valuable insights to be better disciples of Christ and the road our LGBTQ members walk.

Thank you Travis and Margaret for sharing your story.  You two are awesome.   Thanks for blessing 1000s.   We love both of you!

Episode 177: Travis Steward (Gay, former Mission President) and his dear wife Margaret Steward

Welcome to our podcast!   

My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren.  I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books: 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022.  The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6003149.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

“Listen Learn and Love:  Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023.  The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6026921.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.  

Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016.   Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

I am the author of two Ensign articles:

‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

 ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.   

This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

Thank you for joining us.   You can't donate to this podcast.  There are no sponsors.   But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤

Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook:  facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

Episode 177: Travis Steward (Gay, former Mission President) and his dear wife Margaret Steward

Richard Ostler

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