Episode: 92

Series: Strategies LIVE! 

Episode Description:
For law firms looking to improve and grow relationships with clients, they must utilize modernized customer relationship management technology. In this episode of Strategies LIVE!, James Barclay and Michelle Woodyear discuss Woodyear’s implementation of a new CRM at her firm, including her process, timeline and approach for an easy-to-use system.

Speakers:
James Barclay, CEO, Passle Inc (Host)
Michelle Woodyear, Director of Digital Marketing, Covington & Burling LLP

Series Description:
The LMA Strategies LIVE! podcast series examines subject matters and issues affecting legal marketers and the work that we do. This podcast series expands on Strategies & Voices content and elevates expert insights advancing legal marketing.

Implementing A New CRM For Improved Business Development

Join PR SIG Co-Chair Corrina Wright, director of marketing communications at Benesch, for an interview that explores the evolution of legal public relations with Ross Fishman of Fishman Marketing and Michelle Calcote King of Reputation Ink. In addition to exploring how we got here, the trio will take a look at the latest best practices for maximizing your firm’s communications investment.

Speakers:
Ross Fishman, CEO, Fishman Marketing
Michelle Calcote King, President, Reputation Ink
Corrina Wright, Director of Marketing Communications, Benesch

Series Description:
The LMA Podcast focuses on hot topics in legal marketing and business development with conversations driven by industry professionals.

The Evolution of Modern Legal PR: How We Got Here and The Latest Best Practices

For nearly 30 years, Richard Susskind has written books asking lawyers to envision the future of the law and the legal profession in ways that stretch the imagination. Susskind has been one of the foremost proponents of the transformative potential of technology in legal services. Now, he's asking us to imagine larger transformation still: a world in which AI reigns and humanity faces being sidelined. 
Susskind was an early and enthusiastic booster of the development of artificial intelligence, he tells the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles in this episode of the Modern Law Library. He first became enamored of its potential as a law student in the 1980s, and wrote his doctorate at the University of Oxford on AI and the law in 1986. But the speed and direction of recent advances have given him pause. Will AI be a tool for humanity, or its destruction?
 In his new book, How to Think About AI: A Guide for the Perplexed, he hopes to help the layperson navigate the issues raised by artificial intelligence, and provoke a global discussion about the ethical and legal implications. Technology is too important to be left only to the technologists, he says. 
While most people are able to see the promise of AI for professions other than their own, Susskind sees a phenomenon he calls "not-us thinking" when most people are asked if their own work could be taken over by an AI system. Lawyers should be careful not to overestimate clients' attachment to having a human lawyer if their goal is simply to avoid legal pitfalls and they can rely on an AI system to accomplish that.
 In this episode, Susskind discusses the promise of AI for increasing access to justice, and talks about some of the ethical decisions that will have to be made with Rawles, who is more of an AI skeptic.


Perplexed about AI? Richard Susskind wants to help

Law firms acquire or merge with one another all the time. But when it comes to technology companies, firms usually keep it in-house or enter into a partnership with an outside vendor. They rarely go ahead and just buy a tech company. So when Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton announced in March that it had acquired artificial intelligence products developers Springbok AI, it made headlines.

To buy or not to buy? For Cleary Gottlieb, acquiring an AI company was a no-brainer

Dean Austen Parrish talks with Anteater in Law, The Honorable Magdalena Reyes Bordeaux, on her career in public interest, her path to the bench and recommendations to students considering a judicial clerkship.

Hon. Magdalena Reyes Bordeaux on Public Service, the Bench, and Becoming a Great Litigator

Matthew Dixon, co-founder of DCM Insights, is a researcher who’s spent the bulk of his career looking into the shared characteristics and behaviors of successful B2B salespeople. In 2011, he released a study called “The Challenger Sale.” when giving a keynote on his findings at an annual partner retreat, when an audience member stood up and challenged him.

“He said, ‘Dr. Dixon, you’ve been talking now for 45 minutes about sales effectiveness and salespeople and selling and sales process, and it’s all very fascinating and I’m sure our clients would be very interested in this,’” Dixon recounts to the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles in this episode of The Modern Law Library. “‘And after all, we do a lot of consulting work around go-to-market strategy. But what maybe you don’t recognize is that we are partners at our firm. We are not salespeople. In fact, there’s not a single salesperson in this audience. I might go so far as to say we don’t sell anything here.’”

Dixon was taken aback. “What I realized was this world of partnerships, of professional services, of doer-sellers is actually quite a bit different from the world of sales and what we had written and all this research we’d done over the years.”

In 2022, he tackled this population with the Rainmaker Genome Project, a study that became the basis for The Activator Advantage: What Today’s Rainmakers Do Differently, co-written by Dixon, Rory Channer, Karen Freeman and Ted McKenna.

The Rainmaker Genome Project surveyed 3,000 partner-level professionals in 41 firms from the fields of law, public relations, accounting and investment banking. About 39% of respondents were lawyers. Each received a score for their effectiveness in business development and were analyzed for how they provided client services. And it turns out that partner was correct: What makes a lawyer an effective rainmaker is not necessarily what makes a salesperson an effective seller.
After doing a vector analysis on the data, “what we found was that every one of those 3000 professionals could be placed into one of five business development profiles,” says Dixon. The five profiles were the expert, the confidant, the debater, the challenger and the activator.
Dixon stresses that the five categories are not about your personality. While personalities are immutable, behaviors can be changed.
“These are about the things that we can all learn to be better at,” says Dixon. “It’s about the way we spend our time, it’s about the way we engage our clients, it’s about how we use resources, about how we collaborate with our colleagues, and those are things we can all get better at with the right training, coaching and support from our firms.” In this episode, Dixon expands on each type, but the most effective performers in terms of business development were found to be the activators.


What today’s rainmakers do differently

What strategies can legal marketers use to coach attorneys to adopt a client-centric mindset and offer actionable advice that nurtures long-term relationships? During this episode of the LMA Podcast, our guests dive into effective techniques for business development coaching both new and skeptical attorneys, while sharing their personal experiences and the lessons they've learned along the way. They’ll discuss how they integrate key business development trust points into their daily routines, enhancing their ability to guide lawyers towards successful business development practices. Tune in to learn how these strategies can be implemented to transform the attorney-client relationship and drive sustained growth.

Speakers:
Jennifer Ramsey, Co-founder and Principal, stage
Megan Senese, Co-founder and Principal, stage
Shannon Tatro, Associate Director of Business Development, Munger, Tolles & Olson

The Trust Factor: Business Development and Relationship Building Tips That Stick (and It’s Not Just for Lawyers)

Join host Natalia Villanueva and digital marketing expert Amanda Sexton for a focused discussion on how generative AI is transforming SEO and content strategy in the legal industry. From the pitfalls of AI-generated content to the power of storytelling and performance metrics that matter, this episode equips legal marketers with practical ways to stay visible and credible in a rapidly changing digital environment.
Speakers:

Amanda Sexton, Founder and Principal, FocusWorks Marketing
Natalia Villanueva, Partner, KermaPartners | UpWyse

Series Description:
The LMA Podcast focuses on hot topics in legal marketing and business development with conversations driven by industry professionals.


Smarter Content, Better SEO: AI Tips for Legal Marketing Strategies

In this episode of the LMA Podcast, business development growth coach and strategist Deb Feder moderates a panel with Chantal Williams and Joy Sperling, exploring the underestimated role of small talk in professional growth and relationship-building.

From favorite TV shows to brisket recipes, the panelists illustrate how everyday banter can lead to lasting business opportunities. Whether you're a natural conversationalist or a recovering small talk skeptic, this episode shows how small talk can be the spark that builds trust, deepens rapport and opens unexpected doors.

Speakers: 
Deb Feder, Founder and CEO, Feder Development
Joy Sperling, Retired Law Partner, Day Pitney
Chantal Williams, BD and Marketing Senior Manager, White & Case

Why Small Talk Should be Part of Your Business Development Strategy

The LMA Podcast focuses on hot topics in legal marketing, member education and the business of law.