“To me, what grit is is not despairing and not giving up just because things are really hard or because things are going really, really poorly. The courage to be like, ‘Man, things have fallen apart, this is awful, but I’m going to figure it out, I’m going to keep going.’ To me, hope is one of the most courageous things there is, to continue on, to keep going, to try again after one has failed. There’s almost an element of irrationality in it. I think what runners do—and I forget which runner said this but I’ve always loved the quote—‘it doesn’t always get worse.’ So it’s really bad, you’re on mile 30 or whatever it is of the race, and it feels like your body is about to fall apart and you can’t go on, part of what your mind does is extrapolate out, ‘if it’s bad now, it will obviously get worse from here,’ and that’s actually not the case. You push forward and often it gets better.” 

Ryan Holiday is a runner and #1 New York Times bestselling author whose books have sold more than 4 million copies worldwide. I’ve long been a fan of Ryan’s writing, most of which centers around Stoic philosophy, and his work has personally had a huge impact on me and how I live my life. His latest book, Courage Is Calling, was one of my favorite reads of 2021 and served as the basis for the conversation we had for this episode of the podcast. 

What is courage? Is it a choice? Can we make it a habit? What’s the difference between being scared and being afraid? How does fear of what other people think of us influence behavior and decision making? These are just a few of the questions I explored with Ryan in this episode and the takeaways are widely applicable for us not only as runners, but as people just making our way through the world. I took a lot away from this conversation and I know that you will too.

This episode is brought to you by:

— Tracksmith. Tracksmith crafts performance running apparel, inspiring publications, and distinct experiences that allow runners to indulge in the sport’s rich culture. Go to https://tracksmith.com/mario to check out some of my favorite apparel picks and use the code MARIO at checkout to get free shipping on your order while also helping support #LASAVESTRACK. 

— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to https://goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!

Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-185-with-ryan-holiday/

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The Morning Shakeout

Episode 185 | Ryan Holiday

“I think that that’s one of the most important or significant traits that you can have—as a runner, an athlete, a human, a colleague, a dad, a husband—is to be dependable if nothing else. I know I can depend on myself. When I wake up on a race day and I’m like, ‘Man, I really don’t wanna do this, the weather stinks, I don’t feel like I’ve done enough,’ there’s like two voices in my head: that Alpha and Beta, and the Beta’s like, ‘Go back to bed dude, this is crazy. No one gives a crap about this. You’re the only one that cares.’ And then the Alpha’s like, ‘Oh, hell no. We made a commitment to ourselves to show up and show out and deliver the goods and win or die trying and lay it all on the line.’ And it works. Some days you think, ‘Today’s not my day for a race.’ Like I said, the Beta starts telling the Alpha, ‘It’s not our day, we’re not ready,’ and the Alpha’s just like, ‘Dude, we’re going through the routine, we’re warming up, we’re getting on the start line, and we’re going for it.’” 

Ken Rideout is the most requested return guest in the history of the podcast. He first appeared on the show almost exactly two years ago on Episode 91 and before you listen to this conversation I recommend going back to check that one out if you haven’t already to get Ken’s backstory, which will help set the foundation for this second go-around. 

So who is this guy? In a lot of ways, Ken is a real average dude—he’s a husband and dad to four kids, he works full-time and then some, and like the rest of us he loves to run—but at the age of 50, he’s running faster than ever before and his approach to life is anything but average. This past year Ken won the Myrtle Beach Marathon in 2:30, he finished second in the 50-54 age group at the Abbott World Marathon Majors championship in London, running 2:29, a few weeks after that he won the Masters division at New York, running 2:33, and then he finished off his racing season with a 1:10 personal best in the half marathon in Nashville. I’ve had the pleasure of coaching Ken for a little over two years now and not only is he one of the most driven athletes I’ve ever coached, he’s just one of the best, biggest-hearted people I’ve ever met. 

We covered a lot in this conversation—and in it, Ken shares some personal details about his life that he hasn’t talked about publicly elsewhere before—but the main theme to come out of it has to do with the stories we tell ourselves, the inner dialogue many of us have every time we lace up our shoes, step on the starting line, or sometimes when we’re just trying get out of bed in the morning. Ken and I also talk about responsibility versus pressure, the importance of being dependable to yourself and others, cultivating confidence in everything you do, and a lot more.

This episode is brought to you by:

— Tracksmith. Tracksmith crafts performance running apparel, inspiring publications, and distinct experiences that allow runners to indulge in the sport’s rich culture. Go to https://tracksmith.com/mario to check out some of my favorite apparel picks and use the code MARIO at checkout to get free shipping on your order while also helping support #LASAVESTRACK. 

— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to https://goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!

Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-186-with-ken-rideout/

Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: https://themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/

Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout

Episode 186 | Ken Rideout

Host Mario Fraioli gleans insight and inspiration from top athletes, coaches, and personalities in the sport of running.

Episode 185 | Ryan Holiday

the morning shakeout podcast

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